Was Danny Vinyard (American History X) right?
Options
Arya Tsaddiq
Members Posts: 15,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
This is a quote from American History X
By Danny Vinyard...
"I hate the fact that it's cool to be black these days, I hate this hip-hop ? influence in white ? suburbia and I hate Tabitha Soren and all her Zionist MTV ? pigs telling us we should get along. Save the rhetorical ? Hillary Rodham Clinton, 'cause it ain't gonna ? happen."
Even though his character was racist, the implication of his statements ring true. I thought of this because of that thread about white people using old black slang. Even in my own experience, I can remember being around young white kids who wanted to emulate everything famous black people did. not all of them did, but there were a lot. For some, it was just a phase, but some never grew out of it.
And just to clarify, this is not a race thread. Its more so to do with popular culture and how the negatives that are attributes to black people are praised and publically displayed as "cool". It not only casts a bad light on a whole race, but it also effects others who choose to be followers.
Danny Vinyard said it only affects white suburbia, but think back to ur childhood for those that free up in predominately black neighborhoods. When did innocent kids start turning into ? and moral-less disrespectful egotisical adults? These kids weren't always like that. So what is the common denominator?
*edit: the question is posed under the assumption that when Danny uses the term "black", it refers to all the negative sterotypical images of black people in this country, regardless of how inaccurate it is from the true collective image of them irl.
By Danny Vinyard...
"I hate the fact that it's cool to be black these days, I hate this hip-hop ? influence in white ? suburbia and I hate Tabitha Soren and all her Zionist MTV ? pigs telling us we should get along. Save the rhetorical ? Hillary Rodham Clinton, 'cause it ain't gonna ? happen."
Even though his character was racist, the implication of his statements ring true. I thought of this because of that thread about white people using old black slang. Even in my own experience, I can remember being around young white kids who wanted to emulate everything famous black people did. not all of them did, but there were a lot. For some, it was just a phase, but some never grew out of it.
And just to clarify, this is not a race thread. Its more so to do with popular culture and how the negatives that are attributes to black people are praised and publically displayed as "cool". It not only casts a bad light on a whole race, but it also effects others who choose to be followers.
Danny Vinyard said it only affects white suburbia, but think back to ur childhood for those that free up in predominately black neighborhoods. When did innocent kids start turning into ? and moral-less disrespectful egotisical adults? These kids weren't always like that. So what is the common denominator?
*edit: the question is posed under the assumption that when Danny uses the term "black", it refers to all the negative sterotypical images of black people in this country, regardless of how inaccurate it is from the true collective image of them irl.
Comments
-
First things first...that's a great damn movie. I still can't watch that scene where ol dude gets curb stomped though. As for the quote and what you said I do think that the negatives of American culture are attributed to the naivety of the youth and being that hip-hop has been seen as a culture driven by the youth it's easier to attribute so many bad things to it while ignoring the good as well. It's not the influence of hip-hop that turns/turned kids into degenerate ? it's American culture in general which hip-hop just happens to be a part of.
-
First things first...that's a great damn movie. I still can't watch that scene where ol dude gets curb stomped though. As for the quote and what you said I do think that the negatives of American culture are attributed to the naivety of the youth and being that hip-hop has been seen as a culture driven by the youth it's easier to attribute so many bad things to it while ignoring the good as well. It's not the influence of hip-hop that turns/turned kids into degenerate ? it's American culture in general which hip-hop just happens to be a part of.
if if you had to point any specific environmental factors, what would it be? -
Great movie.
As far as the hip hop (rap really) media all it does is take negative aspects of the black community and push it as cool, or "normal."
So more kids see that and do it, and the more that do it the more people see it.
If all a non-black person sees is the negative aspects of "being black" that is the only aspects they will know, expect, and react to. -
MansaMusa67 wrote: »This is a quote from American History X
By Danny Vinyard...
"I hate the fact that it's cool to be black these days, I hate this hip-hop ? influence in white ? suburbia and I hate Tabitha Soren and all her Zionist MTV ? pigs telling us we should get along. Save the rhetorical ? Hillary Rodham Clinton, 'cause it ain't gonna ? happen."
Cool to be black? ? no. No one besides black people want to be black. And even some of black people want to get rid to their skin color. It's cool to ACT black (poor choice of words, but you know what I mean) and it's cool to show that you have been influenced by black culture? Cool to BE black? ? outta here. Hip hop is a HUGE influence on white suburbia. And we SHOULD all get along. -
Nice discussion guys. Its over now though with the move lol smh
-
Im noticing the IC likes to take controversial topics/statements and be different on some 'i mean if u think about...he was right!'
-
To me what he said in the quote was more about the walls of segregation being broken down by the influence of hiphop ,television,politicians, and other components not about the negative sterotypes of hiphop or black culture.
To blame hiphop for the behavoir of the kids is like blaming a murder on hiphop because the killer was listenin to a Rick Ross cd prior to the ? . It all starts with the parents. Nothing is wrong with embracing the hiphop culture, but for most of the inner black community, thats all these ? know and now you have parents raising kids that know nothin but the latest rap song and music video.
-
I disagree. Whether people want to admit it or not, race relations are getting better. People let the negative occurrences cloud their judgement on this matter. Look at how things were 10, 20, 30, 40, etc... years ago. There is no arguing that progress is being made. ? isn't perfect, and it may never be, but it's silly to act like people of different races don't get along and never will.
-
Im noticing the IC likes to take controversial topics/statements and be different on some 'i mean if u think about...he was right!'
so are you saying there was no truth in what he said? -
MansaMusa67 wrote: »First things first...that's a great damn movie. I still can't watch that scene where ol dude gets curb stomped though. As for the quote and what you said I do think that the negatives of American culture are attributed to the naivety of the youth and being that hip-hop has been seen as a culture driven by the youth it's easier to attribute so many bad things to it while ignoring the good as well. It's not the influence of hip-hop that turns/turned kids into degenerate ? it's American culture in general which hip-hop just happens to be a part of.
if if you had to point any specific environmental factors, what would it be?
I'd say it's mostly the things we place value on in this country as symbols of success or what a successful person is. -
Da Riddler wrote: »To me what he said in the quote was more about the walls of segregation being broken down by the influence of hiphop ,television,politicians, and other components not about the negative sterotypes of hiphop or black culture.
To blame hiphop for the behavoir of the kids is like blaming a murder on hiphop because the killer was listenin to a Rick Ross cd prior to the ? . It all starts with the parents. Nothing is wrong with embracing the hiphop culture, but for most of the inner black community, thats all these ? know and now you have parents raising kids that know nothin but the latest rap song and music video.
i agree to an extent. But to play fevils advocate, when u look at the introduction of music videos with these songs, I think it increased the influence that the rap culture had on society when it comes to popular dress, dialect, and social interaction. -
MansaMusa67 wrote: »First things first...that's a great damn movie. I still can't watch that scene where ol dude gets curb stomped though. As for the quote and what you said I do think that the negatives of American culture are attributed to the naivety of the youth and being that hip-hop has been seen as a culture driven by the youth it's easier to attribute so many bad things to it while ignoring the good as well. It's not the influence of hip-hop that turns/turned kids into degenerate ? it's American culture in general which hip-hop just happens to be a part of.
if if you had to point any specific environmental factors, what would it be?
I'd say it's mostly the things we place value on in this country as symbols of success or what a successful person is.
I agree with this. But if you accept this mindset, wouldnt it be easy to say that if the affluent images placed in this videos would have a big affect on children in low income areas where they don't see many successful people? Kinda makes sense why many kids in he inner city wanna be in the music industry/athletes. That's they only positive thing they see, even if those images are still laced with negative things. -
mryounggun wrote: »MansaMusa67 wrote: »This is a quote from American History X
By Danny Vinyard...
"I hate the fact that it's cool to be black these days, I hate this hip-hop ? influence in white ? suburbia and I hate Tabitha Soren and all her Zionist MTV ? pigs telling us we should get along. Save the rhetorical ? Hillary Rodham Clinton, 'cause it ain't gonna ? happen."
Cool to be black? ? no. No one besides black people want to be black. And even some of black people want to get rid to their skin color. It's cool to ACT black (poor choice of words, but you know what I mean) and it's cool to show that you have been influenced by black culture? Cool to BE black? ? outta here. Hip hop is a HUGE influence on white suburbia. And we SHOULD all get along.
We were fightin for civil rights 50 years ago, alot our parents were alive during that ? , so wanting to be black wasnt Ideal. 50 years later we're the most copied race on earth. Of course nobody goes around sayin I wanna BE black, but who df wakes up sayin "I wish i were asian or indian" lol -
Great movie, one of my favorite films.
Hip-hop, like all "cool" things, is counterculture. It's different from what they experience everyday, it's fresh and exciting.
For anyone interested there was an episode of Frontline about things like this it's called Merchants of Cool, if you can find it it's pretty interesting. It's about marketing to teenagers and how corporations can target something that is "cool" to a few select kids and then they take it national via mass marketing. Here's a clip for those interested, it's only about 5 minutes:
http://youtu.be/JZ0_6wJq9q4
That's all that has happened with hip-hop. It's just mass marketed as being "cool", Steve Stoute's "The Tanning of America" is showing the effects of this.
It creates a culture people can live vicariously through and identify with without having to live with the negative repercussions of it in the real world. No matter how many white boys wear bagging clothes or white girls twerking on YouTube that stuff will always be considered "black". -
MansaMusa67 wrote: »MansaMusa67 wrote: »First things first...that's a great damn movie. I still can't watch that scene where ol dude gets curb stomped though. As for the quote and what you said I do think that the negatives of American culture are attributed to the naivety of the youth and being that hip-hop has been seen as a culture driven by the youth it's easier to attribute so many bad things to it while ignoring the good as well. It's not the influence of hip-hop that turns/turned kids into degenerate ? it's American culture in general which hip-hop just happens to be a part of.
if if you had to point any specific environmental factors, what would it be?
I'd say it's mostly the things we place value on in this country as symbols of success or what a successful person is.
I agree with this. But if you accept this mindset, wouldnt it be easy to say that if the affluent images placed in this videos would have a big affect on children in low income areas where they don't see many successful people? Kinda makes sense why many kids in he inner city wanna be in the music industry/athletes. That's they only positive thing they see, even if those images are still laced with negative things.
That's really it at it's core. People associate success with the images of success we give them. You can tell what type of environment a person was raised in by what/who they view as truly successful people. -
Great movie, one of my favorite films.
Hip-hop, like all "cool" things, is counterculture. It's different from what they experience everyday, it's fresh and exciting.
For anyone interested there was an episode of Frontline about things like this it's called Merchants of Cool, if you can find it it's pretty interesting. It's about marketing to teenagers and how corporations can target something that is "cool" to a few select kids and then they take it national via mass marketing. Here's a clip for those interested, it's only about 5 minutes:http://youtu.be/JZ0_6wJq9q4
That's all that has happened with hip-hop. It's just mass marketed as being "cool", Steve Stoute's "The Tanning of America" is showing the effects of this.
It creates a culture people can live vicariously through and identify with without having to live with the negative repercussions of it in the real world. No matter how many white boys wear bagging clothes or white girls twerking on YouTube that stuff will always be considered "black".
Imma check both of those out...
But what about the affects on wel off blacks? And even the kids living in rough conditions? The ones that do have to experience the affects of society accepting the negatives as cool? -
Its more so a generational thing
Since forever rebellious young people, idealist create, seek out a counterculture to spur social change, disrupt the status quo, to upset daddy
And what dance, trend, counterculture popular with the young has always been labeled as "cool"
Hippies, punks, etc all had their time in fashion and music
At its height in the late 90s to now kids are mostly influenced by hip hop...which isnt shocking considering hip hop artist have always had a rebellious spirit... its stars, slang, message, style rarely have a long shelf life
and the youth who idolize pac or jay will grow up just like their parents hating what's become of the youth while they romanticize the good ol days
Now the hipster movement is movement is taking over in reaction to the culture of excess embraced in the 80s, 90s
As far as race is concerned, blks have never really been accepted by the mainstream so young whites have alwayed looked to blks for cues -
Great movie, one of my favorite films.
Hip-hop, like all "cool" things, is counterculture. It's different from what they experience everyday, it's fresh and exciting.
For anyone interested there was an episode of Frontline about things like this it's called Merchants of Cool, if you can find it it's pretty interesting. It's about marketing to teenagers and how corporations can target something that is "cool" to a few select kids and then they take it national via mass marketing. Here's a clip for those interested, it's only about 5 minutes:http://youtu.be/JZ0_6wJq9q4
That's all that has happened with hip-hop. It's just mass marketed as being "cool", Steve Stoute's "The Tanning of America" is showing the effects of this.
It creates a culture people can live vicariously through and identify with without having to live with the negative repercussions of it in the real world. No matter how many white boys wear bagging clothes or white girls twerking on YouTube that stuff will always be considered "black".
Damn u beat me to it lol
-
this right here.The Lonious Monk wrote: »Whether people want to admit it or not, race relations are getting better.
seriously, just go back to the 1960s and you will see ? that happened then that would NEVER fly today.
-
this right here.The Lonious Monk wrote: »Whether people want to admit it or not, race relations are getting better.
seriously, just go back to the 1960s and you will see ? that happened then that would NEVER fly today.
well, all I can say is that popular opinion has changed. In their core, there are still many racist people. They just hide it because it it not PC to display it openly. I mean, at least lynchings are not happening, but the mindset that led to them hadn't disappeared..... -
You can't be a "cool" white person and not look into black culture
it's been like that
Blacks are the determiners of what is cool then middle America takes it and make it lame -
MansaMusa67 wrote: »
this right here.The Lonious Monk wrote: »Whether people want to admit it or not, race relations are getting better.
seriously, just go back to the 1960s and you will see ? that happened then that would NEVER fly today.
well, all I can say is that popular opinion has changed. In their core, there are still many racist people. They just hide it because it it not PC to display it openly. I mean, at least lynchings are not happening, but the mindset that led to them hadn't disappeared.....
Yeah, more racists are closeted now, but even that is progress because those people that are closet racists now were the ones that were the most blatant with it back in the day. It says a lot that their ilk don't feel comfortable letting their racism out.
And the fact is each generation has fewer and fewer exceptionally racist people. We all have racial hangups and that will probably never change but progress is being made. That's undeniable. -
I agree. But my thing is if these covert rascist are in positions of power, they can do things out of spite. The midset will never be completely done away with because of our history. Smh. I have a spiritual belief in regards to his topic but im not gonna go there.
-
Yeah I can agree with that.
-
oh, i won't dispute that there are racists of various stripes still kicking. but it was only a few decades ago that you could be FLAGRANTLY racist and have it be a lot more acceptable.MansaMusa67 wrote: »well, all I can say is that popular opinion has changed. In their core, there are still many racist people. They just hide it because it it not PC to display it openly.
progress has been made (and is being made); problems remain unsolved
