What was it that Jesus sacrificed?
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glowy
Members Posts: 3,995 ✭✭✭
I'm guessing the pain he endured was the sacrifice?
People say he died our sins, but he came back 3 days later, then rose to heaven, sounds like a more of a win than a sacrifice to me.
They didn't even just leave him on the cross to die a slow death like they normally do, they decided to ? him outright with a spear. (if memory serves me correct)
^ This above part is just assuming that Jesus and ? are separate entities.
As far as Jesus and ? being one in the same. How the hell does an omnipotent being die for you? (unless they truly exterminate themselves from existence)
That's the equivalent to a human losing a dead skin cell, and calling it a sacrifice. Maybe even less seeing how the being is omnipotent.
People say he died our sins, but he came back 3 days later, then rose to heaven, sounds like a more of a win than a sacrifice to me.
They didn't even just leave him on the cross to die a slow death like they normally do, they decided to ? him outright with a spear. (if memory serves me correct)
^ This above part is just assuming that Jesus and ? are separate entities.
As far as Jesus and ? being one in the same. How the hell does an omnipotent being die for you? (unless they truly exterminate themselves from existence)
That's the equivalent to a human losing a dead skin cell, and calling it a sacrifice. Maybe even less seeing how the being is omnipotent.
Comments
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he didnt do anything imo assumin for sake of argument he did exist
but they didnt ? him with a spear
either he was pretending to be asleep or was already dead and they stuck a spear in his side to make sure he was pretending to be asleep or dead -
thedesolateone wrote: »he didnt do anything imo assumin for sake of argument he did exist
but they didnt ? him with a spear
either he was pretending to be asleep or was already dead and they stuck a spear in his side to make sure he was pretending to be asleep or dead
ah, thank you for the clarification. -
Money, clothes, home, sex, family, and other worldly things.
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Jesus gave his life as a sacrifice to wash away sins that hadn't even been committed yet..... and sins that still exist on this Earth today
He gave his life for you and me.....then came bacc from the dead (in my opinion this makes his sacrifice null in void)
which is kind of a ? sacrifice becuz people die all the time
matter of fact I think Jesus fucced us outta the sacrifice by comin bacc from the dead
i -
Word, I don't even think Jesus said "I will die for all of the present sins and future sins of mankind." in the Christian bible.
Tom Landry died on this day 11 years ago, maybe he died for everyone's "sins" too.
Never forget. -
Money, clothes, home, sex, family, and other worldly things.
Funny how this post was ingnored^^^They didn't even just leave him on the cross to die a slow death like they normally do, they decided to ? him outright with a spear. (if memory serves me correct)
"memory" has nothing to do with it......this is just inaccurate, they peirced him with the spear to make sure he was dead
But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. John 19:33-34
Yeshua's (Jesus) sacrifice was primarily total eternal separation from The Father......yes I said ETERNAL.......? TRANSCENDS SPACE AND TIME...... therefore any separation from The Father would be the equivalent of ETERNITY.......this was to atone for all of our sins past, persent and future...........................THIS SACRIFICE IS SO HUGE THAT NONE OF US CAN EVEN COMPREHEND!!!!!
PEACE -
BiblicalAtheist wrote: »Money, clothes, home, sex, family, and other worldly things.
What if they have a currency system in heaven? We know they have gold according to the bible so that represents some sort of value on things, they have homes (Gods got a mansion remember with a room for everyone). His father is up there so family is there.
And by all means I fail to believe that Jesus is not upstairs ? with his dimension shut non stop. -
The True Flesh wrote: »Yeshua's (Jesus) sacrifice was primarily total eternal separation from The Father......yes I said ETERNAL.......? TRANSCENDS SPACE AND TIME...... therefore any separation from The Father would be the equivalent of ETERNITY.......this was to atone for all of our sins past, persent and future...........................THIS SACRIFICE IS SO HUGE THAT NONE OF US CAN EVEN COMPREHEND!!!!!
PEACE
Wouldn't that mean that any time spent with ? would also equate to an eternity? How can one being experience two separate, conflicting eternities? Also if ? transcends space and time how could anything ever be separated from him? -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »What if they have a currency system in heaven? We know they have gold according to the bible so that represents some sort of value on things, they have homes (Gods got a mansion remember with a room for everyone). His father is up there so family is there.
And by all means I fail to believe that Jesus is not upstairs ? with his dimension shut non stop.
Lol @ we know -
Wouldn't that mean that any time spent with ? would also equate to an eternity? How can one being experience two separate, conflicting eternities? Also if ? transcends space and time how could anything ever be separated from him?
@ the underlined.......indeed!
@ the bolded "eternity" though it's used to describe forever and ever it's still a unit of time thus anything that transcends time would be beyond our comprehension. Time for us is lenear, meaning it has to go past, present and future in that order......But it doesn't have to be that way for an omnipotent Creator.......How is that possible??? With ? ALL things are possible.
If any man, (including myself) attempt to explain how these things are possible .....I wouldn't trust it.
PEACE -
The True Flesh wrote: »@ the underlined.......indeed!
@ the bolded "eternity" though it's used to describe forever and ever it's still a unit of time thus anything that transcends time would be beyond our comprehension. Time for us is lenear, meaning it has to go past, present and future in that order......But it doesn't have to be that way for an omnipotent Creator.......How is that possible??? With ? ALL things are possible.
If any man, (including myself) attempt to explain how these things are possible .....I wouldn't trust it.
PEACE
So you're trying to use a concept that you can't explain in order to explain something? We're trying to clarify the point of Jesus' supposed sacrifice here, not obscure it. Also, since we as human beings are just as separate from ? as Jesus supposedly was, and his separation from ? was supposedly his sacrifice, doesn't that mean that each and every one of us are making the same sacrifice? -
I'm guessing the pain he endured was the sacrifice?
People say he died our sins, but he came back 3 days later, then rose to heaven, sounds like a more of a win than a sacrifice to me.
They didn't even just leave him on the cross to die a slow death like they normally do, they decided to ? him outright with a spear. (if memory serves me correct)
^ This above part is just assuming that Jesus and ? are separate entities.
As far as Jesus and ? being one in the same. How the hell does an omnipotent being die for you? (unless they truly exterminate themselves from existence)
That's the equivalent to a human losing a dead skin cell, and calling it a sacrifice. Maybe even less seeing how the being is omnipotent.
Jesus's sacrifice wouldn't be significant is sin isn't so. I believe we have a small view of what sin is. We try to give it a moral mishap; something opposite of doing good and it leaves up wondering why hasn't this sacrifice done anything to make us "act right". -
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I'm guessing the pain he endured was the sacrifice? ..................
I'd agree that is a part of it. Part is that the first born only begotten
[therefore 2nd oldest being in the universe]
would care enough about us to come to this world and walk among us at all.
Jesus becoming human was similar to if a human allowed himself to become a worm in order to help the worms.
For years putting up with our oft displayed stupidity.
Knowing in advance the worms/humans would end up torturing and killing His body.
But the important thing is not "how much did Jesus hurt/give up ?"
Rather,
the important thing is: Did Jesus make a way for me to have a happy eternity/unity with ? ? -
John Prewett wrote: »I'd agree that is a part of it. Part is that the first born only begotten
[therefore 2nd oldest being in the universe]
would care enough about us to come to this world and walk among us at all.
Jesus becoming human was similar to if a human allowed himself to become a worm in order to help the worms.
For years putting up with our oft displayed stupidity.
Knowing in advance the worms/humans would end up torturing and killing His body.
But the important thing is not "how much did Jesus hurt/give up ?"
Rather,
the important thing is: Did Jesus make a way for me to have a happy eternity/unity with ? ?
DOn't get me wrong not trying to nit pick at your words, but if you say he 'Jesus' the 2nd oldest being in the universe, how so? When don't most say Jesus and ? are One??/ So therefore been in existence same time.. Seeing he was beginning and end... seems to go on par with ? even if separate as I got the impression after reading your post??? -
Don't get me wrong not trying to nit pick at your words,
but if you say he 'Jesus' the 2nd oldest being in the universe, how so?
When don't most say Jesus and ? are One?? / So therefore been in existence same time..
Seeing he was beginning and end... seems to go on par with ?
even if separate as I got the impression after reading your post???
You have stumbled upon a LONG RUNNING debate among people who consider themself "Christian."
Should/must we confess: "Jesus IS ? " ........ OR OR OR ............ "Jesus Is the SON OF ? "
Briefly, TRINITARIANS contend all the saved [all REAL Christians] MUST confess/declare JESUS IS ? .
TRINITARIANISM was empowered by Roman emperor Constantine when the emperor created his TRINITARIAN "church" that evolved into the modern organized "christian" "churcheS."
I am NOT a Trinitarian. I confess/declare Jesus is the Son of ? .
Triinitarian "christians" consider me as lost as a Hindu or Moslem or atheist.
============================================
"This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true ? ,
and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of ? , ? abides in him, and he in ? . 1 John 4:15
___________________________________________________
"He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?"
Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living ? ."
And Jesus said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh
and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. Matt 16:15-17
As for Jesus and ? being "one" ....
All the saved will end up "one" with ? /Jesus and each other.
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and not for the nation only, but in order that He might also
gather together into one the children of ? who are scattered abroad. John 11:52
"I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You Holy Father,
keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me,
that they may be one even as We are. John 17:11 -
The True Flesh wrote: »Funny how this post was ingnored^^^
"memory" has nothing to do with it......this is just inaccurate, they peirced him with the spear to make sure he was dead
But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. John 19:33-34
(Jesus) sacrifice was primarily total eternal separation from The Father......yes I said ETERNAL.......? TRANSCENDS SPACE AND TIME...... therefore any separation from The Father would be the equivalent of ETERNITY.......this was to atone for all of our sins past, persent and future...........................THIS SACRIFICE IS SO HUGE THAT NONE OF US CAN EVEN COMPREHEND!!!!!
PEACE
Makes no sense whatsoever. -
Jesus sacrificed fame
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so what happened to the souls of all of those people who lived before jesus was born? did they automatically go to hell?
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so what happened to the souls of all of those people who lived before jesus was born? did they automatically go to hell?
And Jesus went to hell to give them opportunity to be saved.
"Christ then preached to the spirits that were being kept in prison." 1Peter 3:19
"Therefore He says: “ When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, And gave gifts to men.”
9 (Now this, “He ascended” — what does it mean but that
He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens,
that He might fill all things.) Ephesians 4:8-10 -
John Prewett wrote: »I'd agree that is a part of it. Part is that the first born only begotten
[therefore 2nd oldest being in the universe]
would care enough about us to come to this world and walk among us at all.
Jesus becoming human was similar to if a human allowed himself to become a worm in order to help the worms.
For years putting up with our oft displayed stupidity.
Knowing in advance the worms/humans would end up torturing and killing His body.
But the important thing is not "how much did Jesus hurt/give up ?"
Rather,
the important thing is: Did Jesus make a way for me to have a happy eternity/unity with ? ?
this is 100 percent incorrect. first off being simply means to exist .... first thing ? created was light
but ill even do you one better and actually enter the convo on YOUR terms
to be born is to be brought into existence. ? had to emaculately conceive jesus, but even before that he created adam from the dust of the ground. adam was the first man BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE (OR BORN), jesus did not exist before his conception, hence him being BORN (BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE) as gods only BEGOTTEN son. not his only son, but the only son who he conceived thru BIRTH thru the ? of a woman. ? could have easily created jesus from the dust of the earth just as he did adam ... but that is a whole different arguement
to stay on topic, jesus is no where near the 2nd oldest being in the universe nor is adam. lucifer and a whole legion of angels existed before ? even created man. hence lucifer falling from heaven with a third of gods angels who tricked man into becoming sinners in the first place, thus creating a need for jesus period. jesus was not an angel first, so how could he have existed previously to his birth when ? is one entity?? why would ? give man the ten commandments if ? (the all knowing) knew that he would have to send the entity who would become jesus later anyway. ? gave man the ten commandments and if man would have followed the ten commandments there would have been no reason for jesus to die.
in order for your logic to be correct, ? would have to create light, then create jesus, then create the heavens and the earth, then create man
in the bible ? creates light, the heavens and then the earth and then man. this is how the angels were already there before adam was created, because ? created heaven before earth. jesus is not an angel, so he was not created when heaven was created or there would have been an angel named jesus.
stop spreading lies -
the spear in the side thing wasnt personal
it was jus something they did to make sure the criminals were really dead,like a double tap
if you ever see old battle movies you will see the warriors/soldiers go around the battlefield breaking the necks of the fallen enemies or jus shooting them in the head -
and to think uptown is jus a brotha postin bytches in illpix illpix,
nah,
he got some ? brewing,
he got some ? brewing -
UPTOWN (CONNEXX) wrote: »this is 100 percent incorrect. first off being simply means to exist .... first thing ? created was light
but ill even do you one better and actually enter the convo on YOUR terms
to be born is to be brought into existence. ? had to emaculately conceive jesus, but even before that he created adam from the dust of the ground. adam was the first man BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE (OR BORN), jesus did not exist before his conception, hence him being BORN (BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE) as gods only BEGOTTEN son. not his only son, but the only son who he conceived thru BIRTH thru the ? of a woman. ? could have easily created jesus from the dust of the earth just as he did adam ... but that is a whole different arguement
to stay on topic, jesus is no where near the 2nd oldest being in the universe nor is adam. lucifer and a whole legion of angels existed before ? even created man. hence lucifer falling from heaven with a third of gods angels who tricked man into becoming sinners in the first place, thus creating a need for jesus period. jesus was not an angel first, so how could he have existed previously to his birth when ? is one entity?? why would ? give man the ten commandments if ? (the all knowing) knew that he would have to send the entity who would become jesus later anyway. ? gave man the ten commandments and if man would have followed the ten commandments there would have been no reason for jesus to die.
in order for your logic to be correct, ? would have to create light, then create jesus, then create the heavens and the earth, then create man
in the bible ? creates light, the heavens and then the earth and then man. this is how the angels were already there before adam was created, because ? created heaven before earth. jesus is not an angel, so he was not created when heaven was created or there would have been an angel named jesus.
stop spreading lies
I believe the following.
13God rescued us from the dark power of Satan and brought us into the kingdom of his dear Son,
14who forgives our sins and sets us free. 15Christ is exactly like ? ,
who cannot be seen. He is the first-born Son, superior to all creation.
16Everything was created by him, everything in heaven
and on earth, everything seen and unseen, including all forces and powers,
and all rulers and authorities. All things were created by ? 's Son,
and everything was made for him.
17God's Son was before all else, and by him everything
is held together. Colossians 1:13-17
You don't believe the above ? Fine. I do. -
jesus was the sacrifice. he was put to death and shed his blood, aka the blood of the lamb, which in the old testament ppl sacrificed lambs as offerings....and the resurrection does not void the concept of sacrifice LOL....the resurrection was the most important part. jesus paid for our sins with his blood, he lived strictly by ? 's will, and died just as we humans do. he set an example for us....live by ? 's will and when u die it will only be a physical death, spiritually u will resurrect to the heavens as jesus did. if not for the sacrifice we would not be able to pay for our sins and would therefore suffer eternally after our lives on earth.
