Can you be a black nationalist and Christian at the same time ?
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P-Dogg77
Members Posts: 4,429 ✭✭✭
I don't really think so...Christianity is a white religion. All my pro-black brothers which religion do you believe in ?
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Christianity empowered the slaves tho. The idea that ? exalts those who suffer on Earth really appealed to them.
It recently occurred to me that in order to really understand the Civil War, and the people living in that era, I would need some familiarity with the Bible. I know as much about as much about the Bible as I know about opera, car engines, and construction. But I can't see myself really understanding the era, without an, at least basic, understanding of the Word.
I finished my fourth daily reading this morning, and what I'm left with is the incredible stupidity of converting slaves to Christianity. Stupidity is too strong a word--but you can see the racism implicit in the notion of conversion, the presumption that the slaves, themselves, would not interpret the religion in their own way, that they would not, themselves, await ? 's winnowing fork, and then see it in this late unpleasantness.
I've been thinking on this verse:
For in vain is a net spread
in the sight of any bird,
but these men lie in wait for
their own blood;
they set an ambush for their
own lives.
That brings so much to mind--Niebuhr, Bacevich, and probably over the years, as I get caught up, much, much more. But for the moment it brings to mind the South. You can read those lines all kinds of ways. I am the son the slaves, and so when I hear that think about the vanity of spreading a net in the sight of birds, I think about what Robert Hayden calls the "deep, immortal, human wish\the timeless will." I think about the ultimate vanity and ultimate futility of slavery.
What occurs to me is that some time around the early 19th, late 18th century, a portion of this country decided to make themselves into Gods. They were not the first. And they aren't the last. But I can't get past the simple thrill, the utter charge man gets from dominating man. Southerners referred to white supremacy not just in economic terms, but as a lifestyle. Slavery did not just mean the right to exploit another man's labor, it meant utter and complete dominion over him, his wives, his children and all of his friends.
You could end his life in all manner of ways. ? him, then take his woman as your own. Sell him, then take his woman and his daughters as your own. Keep him there, and do the same. It oversimplifies things to say, their would be no repercussions--but no one could stop you. In your own eyes, by birth-right, you would be Godkin. And even if you were born with no slaves--as Nathan Bedford Forrest was--you could have rights reserved to you, that mortals did not.
In Bruce Levine's stellar Confederate Emancipation he discusses the thinking behind Jeff Davis, Patrick Cleburne and Robert E. Lee, when they were considering arming slaves to fight. Modern Lost Causers, who mostly see blacks as "black confederates" as jewels in their tainted crowns, see this decision as evidence that the war wasn't about slavery. Their right. It was about white supremacy. And even as Cleburne is telling Davis to emancipate and arm the slaves, he's also telling him that the South can define what, precisely, "emancipate" means.
In fact Cleburne, Davis and Lee were progressive white supremacists. It's important to say this. I think, by our standards, many of the white people we venerate were racists. But many of them were not white supremacists, people who believed that their own status was deeply defendant on the subjugation of black people. From Levine's book:
"If the Yankees succceed in abolishing slavery," Cleburne reasoned. "equality and amalgamation will finally take place." But "if we take this step now, we can mould the relations for all time to come, between the white and colored races." And in that case "we can control the negroes, and...they will still be our servants, at less cost than now."
That passage's prophetic implications chilled me. It is more devastating than any Willie Lynch mythology. They are the words of a forward-thinking bigot, and the seeds of all the evil that overtook black people in this country for the following hundred years.
But the fact remains that they were still spreading their nets to catch the bird, they ultimately were lying in wait for their own blood. This is what comes to mind when you think of Southern states, in the wake of the Civil Rights movement, defunding public schools for fear of black people getting a slice. I'm thinking of last few scenes from Chris Claremont's Inferno saga, where Jean Grey tries to save Madeline--who is her likeness--and Madeline says she'd rather die, then live in the same world as Jean.
It makes sense when you think on the deep promise of white supremacy. Black equality is the promise of mortality for everyone. I ask it again, what are you in a world where a black man is president? Who knows what depths a man might go to cling to those last vestiges of Godhood? He would claim Obama's Muslim. He would claim he isn't a citizen. He would claim that Obama was not "really black" or not black in the "usual way." Anything to differentiate themselves from the teeming masses, anything to get away from he undying fact that in the hearts of all men, there is a Harlem.
http://www.theatlantic.com/culture/archive/2009/08/in-the-name-of-white-divinity/22774/ -
I don't really think so...Christianity is a white religion. All my pro-black brothers which religion do you believe in ?
Christianity originated in the Middle East. -
Nope.
That whole. "love thy neighbor and love thy enemy" ? kinda ties your hands a bit. -
not a christian but i know christianity has been change in many ways and most verses has been taken from torah and has nothing to do with race. hard to say when you havent read the original bible -not versions
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I don't really think so...Christianity is a white religion. All my pro-black brothers which religion do you believe in ?
i just say that im "spiritual" and leave it at that.. -
Nope.
That whole. "love thy neighbor and love thy enemy" ? kinda ties your hands a bit.
HA!
That ? didn't stop the Conquistadors, did it? -
one has nothing to do with the other. if they bout the business of evelating the black man i could give a ? if he was a damn buddhist
there are christian white supremacists and white supremacists who literally worship odin. doesnt matter what imaginary deity they choose to believe in. -
I don't really think so...Christianity is a white religion. All my pro-black brothers which religion do you believe in ?
You can't be a black nationalist/racist/bigot or a white nationalist/racist/bigot
and be a CHRISTian at the same time.
Black CHRISTians and white CHRISTians and every-color-in-between CHRISTians ALL "love one another."
[ if one don't love one's siblings in Christ, then one is not yet fit to be labeled a CHRISTian]
["CHRISTian" as I use the label, which is accurately,...
which means one who in fact heeds the New Testament revealed CHRIST]
Membership in one or another of the cults of the Great ? family of cults
that the world deems "Christianity/churches" is not the same as heeding/following CHRIST
BTW - just a couple of weeks ago I was banned FOREVER from STORMFRONT forum
after only 4 post regarding Jesus's "love one another" command. -
dang did stormfront not c your picture?
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I can only laugh at a Black nationalist that is a Christian. The Bible explicitly supports slavery and the beating of slaves, how can any self-respecting Black man call himself a Black nationalist yet worship the same religion that helped out slave owners for hundreds of years?
I'm pro-Black in that I like to see Blacks succeed and empowered, and as a pro-Black man, I can never be a supporter of a slavery supporting book like the Bible. ? that ? book. -
dang did stormfront not c your picture?
LOL........to Stormfront, John is a ? loving, Jew loving ? who hates his own race....for being on a hip-hop website. I've seen them call others who enjoy hip-hop that. -
Anybody that still says the old "The Bible supports slavery" in 2011 has to be a borderline ? .
PEACE -
Marcus Garvey was one wasn't he?
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The True Flesh wrote: »Anybody that still says the old "The Bible supports slavery" in 2011 has to be a borderline ? .
PEACE
I guess you've never read a Bible before.......? . -
its over: 2012! wrote: »The bible did not discriminate, by Race. That decree went for every human who's ever been a slave, on Earth. The bible understands the overall picture, is bigger than, our plights we face here on Earth.
Even if that's true, the Bible supports the beating, trading, and selling of slaves. That's wrong and I can't support that. It's the reason Blacks are leaving Christianity in droves these days. -
................................................The True Flesh wrote: »Anybody that still says the old "The Bible supports slavery" in 2011 has to be a borderline ? .
PEACE -
its over: 2012! wrote: »The bible did not discriminate, by Race.
actually it does, a whole bunch of times
and it DOES support slavery -
Nope.
That whole. "love thy neighbor and love thy enemy" ? kinda ties your hands a bit.
STORMFRONT thinks the same. -
its over: 2012! wrote: »don't be fooled by Satan, my friend, for Christianity is color-blind;
one can not blame Christianity, for the success of false prophets and successful works, of the devil
Amen .......... -
dang did stormfront not c your picture?
White and black racist/bigots condemn/reject those of their own color who seek to be color blind.
The white wanting to be color blind will be called a ni66er lover ..... the black wanting to be color blind will be called an uncle Tom.
But the LORD said to Samuel,
"Do not look at his appearance or at the height of his stature, because I have rejected him;
for ? sees not as man sees,
for man looks at the outward appearance,
but the LORD looks at the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7 -
KTULU IS BACK wrote: »actually it does, a whole bunch of times
and it DOES support slavery
CHRIST [not the pope, not clergy, not Moses, not anyone else] is the leader of CHRISTians [as I use the label, which is accurately]
The NT word and example of CHRIST does NOT support slavery. Rather the NT CHRIST makes it known that ETERNAL LIFE is what it is all about. And that one's status on earth doesn't really matter.
CHRIST actually makes it known that the poor of this world [slave,serf,peasant] are [in the big picture/long run] BETTER OFF than the rich.
["rich have harder time entering kingdom of ? that camel through eye of the needle"]
The "MARKING" will make this real clear. Take the "mark" and be ? -damned. Don't take the "mark" and "can't buy or sell". So wealthy will have more temptation to take the "mark" than the poor.
Harder for wealthy to give up the pleasures of this world for eternal life,.... Poor have less incentive to be "in love with this world"
Jesus Christ word and example is NOT compatible with being a slave owner. CHRISTians [most prominently Quackers] brought about the end of legal slavery.
[not to be confused with PAPIST who sanctioned slavery] -
Deuteronomy 14:2
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy ? , and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
THE ? of the BIBLE is racist and says that the REAL ISRAELITES are ABOVE all nations
Isaiah 40:15
Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.
this is what HE thinks about all the races outside of ISRAELITES... youre just a drop in the bucket and a grain of sand on the ground
Deuteronomy 28:68
And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.
this is what u did to HIS real chosen
Zechariah 2:8
For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.
so when u touched US u touched the wrong ones
Revelation 13:10
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
so this is where youre going and whats going to happen to u
all u nikkaz on here talking bout f@ck the bible no ? f@ck u! the bible is for us n the lil downfalls we went thru is only an inch to the miles of greatness that were going to recieve after the outcome of this lil bs we go thru... stay up israel n get your minds right -
The True Flesh wrote: »Anybody that still says the old "The Bible supports slavery" in 2011 has to be a borderline ? .
PEACE
bruh... do we need to bring you direct quotes? -
young-king wrote: »Deuteronomy 14:2
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy ? , and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
THE ? of the BIBLE is racist and says that the REAL ISRAELITES are ABOVE all nations
Isaiah 40:15
Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing.
this is what HE thinks about all the races outside of ISRAELITES... youre just a drop in the bucket and a grain of sand on the ground
Deuteronomy 28:68
And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.
this is what u did to HIS real chosen
Zechariah 2:8
For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.
so when u touched US u touched the wrong ones
Revelation 13:10
He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
so this is where youre going and whats going to happen to u
all u nikkaz on here talking bout f@ck the bible no ? f@ck u! the bible is for us n the lil downfalls we went thru is only an inch to the miles of greatness that were going to recieve after the outcome of this lil bs we go thru... stay up israel n get your minds right
Ever heard of the NT ? Ever heard of Jesus ? Citing OT just shows you aren't spiritually "up to speed" .............. Talk to some people who love Jesus and happen to have black skin. Maybe they can help you get "up to speed" -
John Prewett wrote: »Ever heard of the NT ? Ever heard of Jesus ? Citing OT just shows you aren't spiritually "up to speed" .............. Talk to some people who love Jesus and happen to have black skin. Maybe they can help you get "up to speed"
NT does not cancel out the OT
In Matthew 5:18 Jesus says
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
