TI is a top 10 rapper of all time before Lil Wayne is *long post warning*
Options
Knives Amilli
Members Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
...based on the following criteria: Influence, legacy*, sales, skill*
*skill and legacy are verryyyy subjective, skill moreso
First my top 10 of all time (based on the following) imo would be (in no particular order)
Jay, Nas, Em, Kanye, Dre, Pac, Biggie, Ice Cube, Rakim, Scarface.
Ok now thats outta the way.....why not Wayne?
Influence: Has Wayne really brought something to the game that no one has before him? Has he created any fads, rhyming styles, pioneered the use of a production sound, made groundbreaking albums, or any things of that nature that the others have? IMO, no. If YMCMB were bigger it'd be a lot more arguable. And while we can never measure the level of influence Wayne has potentially had on Drake or Nicki, i think it can be safely said both had established their niches before independent of YMCMB.
Skill: Everything considered, Wayne is a mid level lyrical talent. Has his share of decent lines, a pretty good flow, but also a good share of ? lines tho.
Sales: Very high for THIS generation. Arguably if sales were adjusted for pre internet sales, wayne would probably do 1-3 million on average post Carter 2. But, Wayne has been around since 1998 so the "internet" argument can only go so far. Plus Luda, TI, and Kanye have all consistently moved albums in the post internet era of music.
Legacy:How will Lil Wayne be remembered? To finally give him some credit, he probably will be remembered as the GOAT of this era. But thats because lil wayne is probably the most DEFINITIVE rapper of all time. I seriously cannot think of another rapper who has defined this generation (now as what this says about this generation is another story) and who most of rap's audience has crowned as "their guy".
But here's the thing with TI and why i'd put him before Lil Wayne...:
Influence: Lets be real, TI was the first A-list rapper whose ENTIRE SHTICK was being a former southern DBoy (and before you mention the Clipse, their sound has ALWAYS been more mafioso IMO). He got the ball rolling on this trap ? which is surprisingly still quite popular to this day. And look at all the ? that came after: jeezy, Joc, Waka, Gucci, and non Atlanta acts like Ross, Yo Gotti, Granted he might not have been as definitively "trap" as say Jeezy but we'll never know how far Trap rap would've taken off without TI.
Skill: Probably because of his drawl, TI has always been a slept on lyricist. Always. He's always had a very good flow and underrated word play. He's no 3stacks but he's far above average IMO.
Sales: This is the part that I think is really funny about Wayne being the crowned "front man" of this gen. Sales wise? TI HAS BEEN ON WAYNE'S HEELS HIS ENTIRE A-LIST CAREER. Take away his pre C1 numbers and TI has very nearly outsold Lil Wayne with 5 years less time. Put it like this, Every TI album has gone plat but one since Trap Muzik. With Lil wayne? Since C1, 3 of his six albums since then are gold.
Put it like this, we'll also never know how much being locked up ? up his sales.
Legacy: Unfortunately unless TI can turn his luck around, he'll be remembered as the Ja Rule of our generation. A high seller who due to horrible luck ? it up. And because a lot of derivative acts came outta the A, he'll prolly never stand out as the influence/pioneer that he is. Sucks, but thats what it is. But funny...when you do lay alot of ? on the table, Lil Wayne isnt as GOAT level as he seems and TI is far more underrated than anyone believes.
*skill and legacy are verryyyy subjective, skill moreso
First my top 10 of all time (based on the following) imo would be (in no particular order)
Jay, Nas, Em, Kanye, Dre, Pac, Biggie, Ice Cube, Rakim, Scarface.
Ok now thats outta the way.....why not Wayne?
Influence: Has Wayne really brought something to the game that no one has before him? Has he created any fads, rhyming styles, pioneered the use of a production sound, made groundbreaking albums, or any things of that nature that the others have? IMO, no. If YMCMB were bigger it'd be a lot more arguable. And while we can never measure the level of influence Wayne has potentially had on Drake or Nicki, i think it can be safely said both had established their niches before independent of YMCMB.
Skill: Everything considered, Wayne is a mid level lyrical talent. Has his share of decent lines, a pretty good flow, but also a good share of ? lines tho.
Sales: Very high for THIS generation. Arguably if sales were adjusted for pre internet sales, wayne would probably do 1-3 million on average post Carter 2. But, Wayne has been around since 1998 so the "internet" argument can only go so far. Plus Luda, TI, and Kanye have all consistently moved albums in the post internet era of music.
Legacy:How will Lil Wayne be remembered? To finally give him some credit, he probably will be remembered as the GOAT of this era. But thats because lil wayne is probably the most DEFINITIVE rapper of all time. I seriously cannot think of another rapper who has defined this generation (now as what this says about this generation is another story) and who most of rap's audience has crowned as "their guy".
But here's the thing with TI and why i'd put him before Lil Wayne...:
Influence: Lets be real, TI was the first A-list rapper whose ENTIRE SHTICK was being a former southern DBoy (and before you mention the Clipse, their sound has ALWAYS been more mafioso IMO). He got the ball rolling on this trap ? which is surprisingly still quite popular to this day. And look at all the ? that came after: jeezy, Joc, Waka, Gucci, and non Atlanta acts like Ross, Yo Gotti, Granted he might not have been as definitively "trap" as say Jeezy but we'll never know how far Trap rap would've taken off without TI.
Skill: Probably because of his drawl, TI has always been a slept on lyricist. Always. He's always had a very good flow and underrated word play. He's no 3stacks but he's far above average IMO.
Sales: This is the part that I think is really funny about Wayne being the crowned "front man" of this gen. Sales wise? TI HAS BEEN ON WAYNE'S HEELS HIS ENTIRE A-LIST CAREER. Take away his pre C1 numbers and TI has very nearly outsold Lil Wayne with 5 years less time. Put it like this, Every TI album has gone plat but one since Trap Muzik. With Lil wayne? Since C1, 3 of his six albums since then are gold.
Put it like this, we'll also never know how much being locked up ? up his sales.
Legacy: Unfortunately unless TI can turn his luck around, he'll be remembered as the Ja Rule of our generation. A high seller who due to horrible luck ? it up. And because a lot of derivative acts came outta the A, he'll prolly never stand out as the influence/pioneer that he is. Sucks, but thats what it is. But funny...when you do lay alot of ? on the table, Lil Wayne isnt as GOAT level as he seems and TI is far more underrated than anyone believes.
Comments
-
I agree for the most part (except the Top 10 part)......but T.I. bout to take his spot back though. That ? he did with Pharrel was ill and Lil Wayne is garbage. Wayne wish he had the skills, lyricism and concepts that T.I. does
-
wayne is a better rapper, tip makes better albums...
-
co sign this entire thread. not to mention, trap muzik is one of th best hip hop albums of the 00's imo.
-
Son it was no need for all that typing. Lil Wayne is not remotely close to top 10.
-
neither will go down as top 10 but clearly T.I has a better shot...dude makes some dope albums
-
G.R.I.P. Money $$$ wrote: »wayne is a better rapper, tip makes better albums...
You make my home state look bad with your simpleton mind. Wayne is not a better rapper than T.I.P., Wayne using punchlines more than T.I.P. and if that is your thing you can see he better but other than that he not better than T.I. in any form and considering most of his punchlines are blah, what difference does it make? -
T.I. can drop 2 to 3 more platinum albums which would make 7 or 8, sell 4 to 5 million albums on one project of those 2 to 3 albums, change the game again like he and Jeezy did with Trap Muzik and still he want go down top 10 because of
Hate
and
The game has actually been blessed with a lot of dope impactfull rappers over this 30+ year span. Like I said long ago though, I think his legacy will be around the LL and Ice Cube spectrum. -
T.I. can drop 2 to 3 more platinum albums which would make 7 or 8, sell 4 to 5 million albums on one project of those 2 to 3 albums, change the game again like he and Jeezy did with Trap Muzik and still he want go down top 10 because of
Hate
and
The game has actually been blessed with a lot of dope impactfull rappers over this 30+ year span. Like I said long ago though, I think his legacy will be around the LL and Ice Cube spectrum.
Lastly, I commend you on this post and would like to say before this alleged snitching stuff the so-called streets always respected T.I. more than Wayne. Honestly, all the so-called street/real ? I know still mess with him when he drop a track they like and they say Wayne overblown.
In Wayne's defense even though I think he is severely overblown he did kinda pioneer that Bling Bling thing. He was more of a trend setter when he was with the Hot Boyz than without.
Finally, 3000 and Kanye are not top ten. 3000 has never made a hot solo album and I doubt he could or it would have any impact at this point because not enough would care to even listen and Kanye is just a upgrade of Dr. Dre as a rapper, I really don't think Kanye has the catalog of quality music to be top 10. If we are gonna add his production legacy Dr. Dre is top 10 over Kanye. -
.........................................
[IMG]http://i679.photobucket.com/albums/vv158/Lead-Slugger/Gifs/? .gif[/IMG] -
u will never get another trap muzik from TIP after the bids he did and the fame he has reached he will never make another album like that, no way in hell will he be in top 10 of all time maybe in the south but not in general tip is fallin off just like young and most of the south
Wayne wont go down in the top 10 cause he never raps about ? anymore just punchlines with no meanin, wayne will be more rememberd and respected the tip because of the albums he dun sold treads he set and his take over of the rap game for 2-3 years -
u aint got to have another trap music causemidwest_penny wrote: »u will never get another trap muzik from tip after the bids he did and the fame he has reached he will never make another album like that, no way in hell will he be in top 10 of all time maybe in the south but not in general tip is fallin off just like young and most of the south
wayne wont go down in the top 10 cause he never raps about ? anymore just punchlines with no meanin, wayne will be more rememberd and respected the tip because of the albums he dun sold treads he set and his take over of the rap game for 2-3 years
1. He made king
2. He made paper trail
3. He made urban legend
all 3 of these are great albums...
All of these albums show grown in ti...
Him being able to actually rap about something different every album and not do some fake ass singing "how 2 love"...
Mumblin over every track... -
PUPU_IZ_DRO wrote: »u aint got to have another trap music cause
1. He made king
2. He made paper trail
3. He made urban legend
all 3 of these are great albums...
All of these albums show grown in ti...
Him being able to actually rap about something different every album and not do some fake ass singing "how 2 love"...
Mumblin over every track...
Didnt he do some soft ass watever u like
I like tip music but he is fallin off and in 3 to 4 years ppl wont even be lookin for dude if he dont step his bars up
after paper trail its been down hill -
Carter 5 is wayyyyy better album then King
-
Haven't read the whole part yet but i respect you for giving and honest opinion and not just making a thread title to troll and ? like "TI >> Wayne" or vice versa and
not even making any arguments, so props. -
Good comparasion but i hate to tell u ? .......
Wayne got T.I. by light years........? just sold 1M in the 1st week......
I understand where yall coming from but dog Lil Wayne probably go down as the biggest artist Hip Hop ever seen.....
i understand you have Em and Jay-Z and Kayne........but they even know Wayne is King....
Lets be clear its hard to judge talent......with out being bias.......im going solely on "Fan-Power"
Yall think Jigga-Warriors are something........wait till 2022 Wayne will be even stronger in this business
if u look at CMR, they locking the game up......like dominoes a ? know if he drop that blank the board cant move.....
and these ? in position, if they not in position they moving closer and closer.......
Wayne went to Jail right......his PR team so slick.....that Wayne rarely even talk about jail in interviews....or even on songs....
? came out jail, and just storm the industry
T.I. hasnt be able to catch fire one time since he been home........
And thats beef im waiting on......that will Jay-Z and Nas on the southern tip.....
Lil Wayne vs T.I..... -
i like 3 tracks by T.I thats it :
track with beenie man
front back side to side
what you know about that
I havent really checked for him cos i just cant understand him that well, but his a smart dude and obviously talented and he is one of the few rappers that does the genre proud the way he talks and dresses, just cant get past that delivery.
so if i was to list top 10 south artist, probably be in there but i dont mess with too many. -
7thwardslim wrote: »Good comparasion but i hate to tell u ? .......
Wayne got T.I. by light years........? just sold 1M in the 1st week......
I understand where yall coming from but dog Lil Wayne probably go down as the biggest artist Hip Hop ever seen.....
i understand you have Em and Jay-Z and Kayne........but they even know Wayne is King....
Lets be clear its hard to judge talent......with out being bias.......im going solely on "Fan-Power"
Yall think Jigga-Warriors are something........wait till 2022 Wayne will be even stronger in this business
if u look at CMR, they locking the game up......like dominoes a ? know if he drop that blank the board cant move.....
and these ? in position, if they not in position they moving closer and closer.......
Wayne went to Jail right......his PR team so slick.....that Wayne rarely even talk about jail in interviews....or even on songs....
? came out jail, and just storm the industry
T.I. hasnt be able to catch fire one time since he been home........
And thats beef im waiting on......that will Jay-Z and Nas on the southern tip.....
Lil Wayne vs T.I.....
not gonna happen -
-
not gonna happen
a couple years ago i thought it was on......even on here they was hyping it.........
but yea i doubt it will ever happen.... -
7thwardslim wrote: »a couple years ago i thought it was on......even on here they was hyping it.........
but yea i doubt it will ever happen....
they kids hang out with each other and ? it could never be beef between them -
TI is the best southern rapper
TI had the best catalogue of any rappers not named NAS in te 00's
Hes the most talented rapper to come out since he came out himself
he got flow, lyrics, concepts, he can make any type of song, club,love,hood etc..
TI is a SUPERSTAR -
T.I. can drop 2 to 3 more platinum albums which would make 7 or 8, sell 4 to 5 million albums on one project of those 2 to 3 albums, change the game again like he and Jeezy did with Trap Muzik and still he want go down top 10 because of
Hate
and
The game has actually been blessed with a lot of dope impactfull rappers over this 30+ year span. Like I said long ago though, I think his legacy will be around the LL and Ice Cube spectrum.
Pretty sure tip made that album by himself without jeezy.
Barring the hate, it should be widely known T.I>>>>>>>>>wayne -
7thwardslim wrote: »Good comparasion but i hate to tell u ? .......
Wayne got T.I. by light years........? just sold 1M in the 1st week......
I understand where yall coming from but dog Lil Wayne probably go down as the biggest artist Hip Hop ever seen.....
i understand you have Em and Jay-Z and Kayne........but they even know Wayne is King....
Lets be clear its hard to judge talent......with out being bias.......im going solely on "Fan-Power"
Yall think Jigga-Warriors are something........wait till 2022 Wayne will be even stronger in this business
if u look at CMR, they locking the game up......like dominoes a ? know if he drop that blank the board cant move.....
and these ? in position, if they not in position they moving closer and closer.......
Wayne went to Jail right......his PR team so slick.....that Wayne rarely even talk about jail in interviews....or even on songs....
? came out jail, and just storm the industry
T.I. hasnt be able to catch fire one time since he been home........
And thats beef im waiting on......that will Jay-Z and Nas on the southern tip.....
Lil Wayne vs T.I.....
And I agree....Wayne will be remembered as the GOAT of this generation.
But I was just pointing out that unlike the other GOATS, WAYNE EXCELS AT NOTHING. He isn't a game changer. He's brought nothing to Hip Hop that changed everything.
TI has better credentials and half the love. -
Pretty sure tip made that album by himself without jeezy.
Barring the hate, it should be widely known T.I>>>>>>>>>wayne
I am speaking on the Trap Muzik movement not album. He came through with it 1st on the mainstream album but I think Jeezy helped blow it up on a larger level. T.I. has always got the hate, even to the point some wanna act like Jeezy fathered the Trap Muzik movement. -
T.I. is a better lyricist than Wayne
T.I. is a better artist than Wayne
T.I. can make ANY type of song (sociallly conscious, political, female friendly, club banger, gangster, trap rap etc.)
T.I. has one classic, some great albums, and some slightly above average albums
Anyone questioning T/S is an idiot.
