The Great Rap Debate: Can Real Hip-Hop Still Move the Crowd?
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Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »anyone that raps is hip hop?
No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.
who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?
djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc? -
Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »anyone that raps is hip hop?
No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.
who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?
djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?
you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists. -
Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »anyone that raps is hip hop?
No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.
who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?
djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?
you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.
What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly. -
Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »anyone that raps is hip hop?
No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.
who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?
djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?
you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.
What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly.
you gonna tell me the likes of DJ Khaled are legitimate artists? -
I hate music snobs, be it hiphop heads or indy rock fans. They always feel like they're intellectually better or up on something the rest of the world isn't on.
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Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »anyone that raps is hip hop?
No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.
who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?
djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?
you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.
What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly.
you gonna tell me the likes of DJ Khaled are legitimate artists?
I'm not too familiar with DJ Khaled. But yes, I would say that those such as RZA, DJ Screw, Dr. Dre, Nujabes, DJ Jazzy Jeff and others are "legitimate" artists. Many DJs are producers too right? It takes a lot of skill and talent to do what they do even if we don't completely understand what they do. But from my experience, I'm sure there's a disinctive art to it all.
Back in the days, people saw hip hop, which is not only a kind of music but a culture as well, as being made up of four elements: djing, rapping, bboying, and graffiti. Although rapping today overshadows the others, the other elements still very much exist today. And there's a lot of art, talent, and creativity within those elements. -
Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »anyone that raps is hip hop?
No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.
who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?
djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?
you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.
What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly.
you gonna tell me the likes of DJ Khaled are legitimate artists?
I'm not too familiar with DJ Khaled. But yes, I would say that those such as RZA, DJ Screw, Dr. Dre, Nujabes, DJ Jazzy Jeff and others are "legitimate" artists. Many DJs are producers too right? It takes a lot of skill and talent to do what they do even if we don't completely understand what they do. But from my experience, I'm sure there's a disinctive art to it all.
Back in the days, people saw hip hop, which is not only a kind of music but a culture as well, as being made up of four elements: djing, rapping, bboying, and graffiti. Although rapping today overshadows the others, the other elements still very much exist today. And there's a lot of art, talent, and creativity within those elements.
I'm talking specifically about DJ Khaled -
Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »anyone that raps is hip hop?
No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.
who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?
djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?
you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.
What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly.
you gonna tell me the likes of DJ Khaled are legitimate artists?
I'm not too familiar with DJ Khaled. But yes, I would say that those such as RZA, DJ Screw, Dr. Dre, Nujabes, DJ Jazzy Jeff and others are "legitimate" artists. Many DJs are producers too right? It takes a lot of skill and talent to do what they do even if we don't completely understand what they do. But from my experience, I'm sure there's a disinctive art to it all.
Back in the days, people saw hip hop, which is not only a kind of music but a culture as well, as being made up of four elements: djing, rapping, bboying, and graffiti. Although rapping today overshadows the others, the other elements still very much exist today. And there's a lot of art, talent, and creativity within those elements.
I'm talking specifically about DJ Khaled
Like I said, I'm not too familiar with DJ Khlaed. So I mentioned other DJs whom I am familiar with. Why does it even matter? Even if DJ Khaled was trash (which would only mean that he's a bad artist btw), that doesnt mean that there aren't other DJs who aren't trash.
Remember, this whole argument started because you implied that nobody in hip hop doesn't rap. Whatever happened to the djs, producers, bboys, etc that I brought up? How did we get to just talking about DJ Khaled as if he's the only person that matters in this argument. He's irrelevant. -
Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »anyone that raps is hip hop?
No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.
who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?
djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?
you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.
What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly.
you gonna tell me the likes of DJ Khaled are legitimate artists?
I'm not too familiar with DJ Khaled. But yes, I would say that those such as RZA, DJ Screw, Dr. Dre, Nujabes, DJ Jazzy Jeff and others are "legitimate" artists. Many DJs are producers too right? It takes a lot of skill and talent to do what they do even if we don't completely understand what they do. But from my experience, I'm sure there's a disinctive art to it all.
Back in the days, people saw hip hop, which is not only a kind of music but a culture as well, as being made up of four elements: djing, rapping, bboying, and graffiti. Although rapping today overshadows the others, the other elements still very much exist today. And there's a lot of art, talent, and creativity within those elements.
I'm talking specifically about DJ Khaled
Like I said, I'm not too familiar with DJ Khlaed. So I mentioned other DJs whom I am familiar with. Why does it even matter? Even if DJ Khaled was trash (which would only mean that he's a bad artist btw), that doesnt mean that there aren't other DJs who aren't trash.
Remember, this whole argument started because you implied that nobody in hip hop doesn't rap. Whatever happened to the djs, producers, bboys, etc that I brought up? How did we get to just talking about DJ Khaled as if he's the only person that matters in this argument. He's irrelevant.
i meant right now, in the mainstream culture. The emcee part of hip hop has completly overshadowed everything now to the point that most people arent even aware of the other piallars -
So folks askin what real hip hop gonna just ignore that most of the music you here nowadays is a influenced by major music corporations.
Im not gonna paint some rose colored revisionist history of hip hop, bboys were getin shot back in the day, graffiti artists repped gangs and ? were sellin dope too. However we at least back then owned our culture, we owned our voice what story was gonna be told what was gonna be hot we owned it.
There were a multitude of voices and if the beat was cold half the time you got play. Lyrical complexity didnt come til about 86. Still doe the voices were ours the people made the choice. Radios didnt play songs doe so you had to go to clubs or parties to hear tracks. Actually heard people battle for lyrical supremacy. Joints still got shot up.
Theres a difference in people being ignorant and the music celebrating ignorance.
The difference between real and fake is who owns your ? . Who owns our music our style our voices and the stories we tell? Us or the labels? -
Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »anyone that raps is hip hop?
No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.
who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?
djs and producers? bboys? graffiti artists? "hip hop" movie producers? journalists? etc?
you know what i mean. i'm talking music. the artists.
What? A dj is not an artist? No, I don't know what you mean honestly.
you gonna tell me the likes of DJ Khaled are legitimate artists?
I'm not too familiar with DJ Khaled. But yes, I would say that those such as RZA, DJ Screw, Dr. Dre, Nujabes, DJ Jazzy Jeff and others are "legitimate" artists. Many DJs are producers too right? It takes a lot of skill and talent to do what they do even if we don't completely understand what they do. But from my experience, I'm sure there's a disinctive art to it all.
Back in the days, people saw hip hop, which is not only a kind of music but a culture as well, as being made up of four elements: djing, rapping, bboying, and graffiti. Although rapping today overshadows the others, the other elements still very much exist today. And there's a lot of art, talent, and creativity within those elements.
I'm talking specifically about DJ Khaled
Like I said, I'm not too familiar with DJ Khlaed. So I mentioned other DJs whom I am familiar with. Why does it even matter? Even if DJ Khaled was trash (which would only mean that he's a bad artist btw), that doesnt mean that there aren't other DJs who aren't trash.
Remember, this whole argument started because you implied that nobody in hip hop doesn't rap. Whatever happened to the djs, producers, bboys, etc that I brought up? How did we get to just talking about DJ Khaled as if he's the only person that matters in this argument. He's irrelevant.
i meant right now, in the mainstream culture. The emcee part of hip hop has completly overshadowed everything now to the point that most people arent even aware of the other piallars
I'm still not sure if I'm following you. So you're saying that today, right now, the only "legitimate" artists in mainstream hip hop music are rappers? I'd still have to disagree. But if you're saying that the only successful or popular artists in mainstream hip hop music today are rappers, then I might agree.
I still don't know about DJ Khaled, but just because you don't hear or see about DJ Premier or DJ Muggs (who are both still making hip hop music), doesn't mean that they aren't "legitimate" artists. And I wouldn't know too much about this, but with everything being digital nowadays, djing has been through a lot of evolving. I don't think that you need a turntable nowadays.
wll i got some business to take care of, so i'm out for now. -
I was teens/20s in the 90s. Really its no difference between the music now and in the 90's or whenever. It was always about what was popular and made the stations, labels, etc. money. It just evolved to new sounds. South people are more content, because thats the type of music that is most popular. When I see these type arguments it says to me "I wish what i wanted was popular". Everybody sees through it so they disregard these types of arguments.Bottom line its all about what everybody involved can make the most money off of. All the rest is irrelevant. end of discussion.
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Amotekun gets the point I was trying to make.
Yeah ? made wack ? like Daisey Dukes and Whoomp There It Is but its because THEY wanted to make it, not because they were being forced to. What's art without artists? -
@Amotekun. That's real.
But I think we're missing a key element; What is real? What is fake?
Real is authentic, tested and proven.
Fake is fantasy, and its a whole lot of people tryin to run away.
And as far as the author goes, throwin darts at Pac... Pac wasn't on no murda music level. It was LIFE music. And in order to truly live, some might have to die. C. Delores Tucker was either a puppet or ignorant. -
@Plutarch, all you had to say was that hip hop is a culture. I don't think the guy you were arguing with understood that point. And yes, dj khaled does make hip hop music. He's an executive producer. He doesn't play xbox all day and steal music for commercial release. What directors do for film, he does for music.
Can real hip hop still move the crowd? Hmm, I don't think you are going to get a consensus on what real hip hop is. I know from the article that you are using conscious rap with meaningful lyrics as substitute for real hip hop. We all know, but we don't all agree. We get it, a lot of the mainstream puts out garbage. It was really bad in the early 2000's. If you made this thread in the early 2000's, everybody and their mom would have cosigned you. Ish was terrible. ? like lil bow wow, nelly, and ludacris were eating back then. The only reason 50 came out like he did was because the quality of music was at an all time low. Not knockin' ja rule by the way, because he crafted good songs.
Today, the game is different. Back then, all an artist had to do to make money was make one hot record and then live off his name. After an artist became popular, throw away tracks by throwaway producers was sufficient, as long as there was a good music video. Today, you can't just put out garbage with a good music video. That's why a lot of rappers from the early 2000's are dead now, because they followed a really ? formula. Make one hot record, and then live off your name. Country grammar was hot and stands the test of time. When the last time you bumped ? juice? *shudders*
When music videos became less important, songs became more important. Hip hop is in a good place right now. -
Real hip-hop doesn't come from anywhere but the soul, like all timeless black music. What's in a (wo)mans heart isn't always pure, its not always nice but its not always bad either. Black folks like to have personal relationships with their artists. We like to be able to "feel" the song, that's the essence, that ? can't be commercialized. You can't really fake that.
Eminem gets respect because he can make ? ? can relate to (hating his family/being bullied for being different/hating his BM/growing up poor) but he's still soulless enough to make the type of ? white people eat up.
Because blacks are a small part of any market the only way to go platinum and all that is to crossover, its always been that way. In the black musician's haste to crossover we always lose control over our music. I just want to hold on to that ? . If it means putting up with Waka Flocka that's cool as long as dude is making what's in his own heart and not playing the fool for white consumption like some of these ? out here. -
wacka flocka sold out with that second album AND he flopped
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So folks askin what real hip hop gonna just ignore that most of the music you here nowadays is a influenced by major music corporations.
Im not gonna paint some rose colored revisionist history of hip hop, bboys were getin shot back in the day, graffiti artists repped gangs and ? were sellin dope too. However we at least back then owned our culture, we owned our voice what story was gonna be told what was gonna be hot we owned it.
There were a multitude of voices and if the beat was cold half the time you got play. Lyrical complexity didnt come til about 86. Still doe the voices were ours the people made the choice. Radios didnt play songs doe so you had to go to clubs or parties to hear tracks. Actually heard people battle for lyrical supremacy. Joints still got shot up.
Theres a difference in people being ignorant and the music celebrating ignorance.
The difference between real and fake is who owns your ? . Who owns our music our style our voices and the stories we tell? Us or the labels?
you really think artist "owned" their ? in the 80's-90's bruh ..... -
Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Black Jerry Maguire wrote: »anyone that raps is hip hop?
No, and not everyone that is Hip Hop raps.
who's in hip hop that doesn't rap?
Just Blaze, DJ Pharris, Jabawakees, Erykah Badu... Djs, graffiti artists, breakers... Hip Hop ain't just rap. -
Amotekun gets the point I was trying to make.
Yeah ? made wack ? like Daisey Dukes and Whoomp There It Is but its because THEY wanted to make it, not because they were being forced to. What's art without artists?
Hmmmm ...
you realize they used to manufacture records for artist in Motown right? ....... i really dont know why people act as if this ? is some new phenomenon ...or just singularly identifiable in hiphop ... -
too many sellers not enough buyers
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JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »Amotekun gets the point I was trying to make.
Yeah ? made wack ? like Daisey Dukes and Whoomp There It Is but its because THEY wanted to make it, not because they were being forced to. What's art without artists?
Hmmmm ...
you realize they used to manufacture records for artist in Motown right? ....... i really dont know why people act as if this ? is some new phenomenon ...or just singularly identifiable in hiphop ...
You missed the point. Smokey still wrote records people can FEEL, stuff they can RELATE to. That's what made the Temptations etc hot, when they started trying to make them do disco records what happened? -
it can.. Look at slaughterhouse. Im also seeing some new talent these days and they are young, get still spitting real hip hop and creating a following. theres always a market for it. and yes it does move a crowd. Ex. Eminem
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JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »Amotekun gets the point I was trying to make.
Yeah ? made wack ? like Daisey Dukes and Whoomp There It Is but its because THEY wanted to make it, not because they were being forced to. What's art without artists?
Hmmmm ...
you realize they used to manufacture records for artist in Motown right? ....... i really dont know why people act as if this ? is some new phenomenon ...or just singularly identifiable in hiphop ...
You missed the point. Smokey still wrote records people can FEEL, stuff they can RELATE to. That's what made the Temptations etc hot, when they started trying to make them do disco records what happened?
that wasn't the point you made in which i responded to tho ..lol ... ? tryna switch ? ... you were talking about artist being "forced" to do such n such because its hot ... and i responded by telling you that this "issue" is no new thing ..... that correlation you were trying to make between so called "forced" music and wack results is just false ... on its face .. motown was making manufactured "pop" records ... same as today .. Barry Gordy would listen to what the hottest ? on the charts was ..then make sure his artist crafted ? just like it...hmm sound familiar?
now as for your last point ...i think your talking about a completely different issue ... bad music is just bad music ... ? thats out of place is just ? thats out of place ... if the temptations made some hot disco songs or they naturally evolved into doing some alternative ? .. they would have been accepted ..thats just how the game works ..and many artist have shown the ability to do that in the past ...
the point is ... none of this ? that people are complaining about (in hiphop) is new (to music) ... the music industry is a part of mainstream culture and if your going to be at the highest level in that industry your going to need to make ? thats widely appealing ... some artist can do that naturally without loosing their "integrity" or appeal .. some cant ...and those ? usually get stuck in the underground... bottom line is ..as the consumer theres no need to just ? & complain about the general state of something when your the one that should be dictating the direction .. not the other way around -
Real hip hop is not done for money or radio spins it's done for the love of the music, it stands the test of time and if enough people happens to like it enough to buy it, then that's good too.
