Man...Malcolm X spit that real.
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good drop @waterproof
I need to print out of copy of this address.
Every Black person on the planet should
possess one.
@Amotekun No doubt a great speech, see people need to understand that Mecca trip was just another evolution and spiritual insight of Malcolm X that he needed to see......Just like every African American that was born in his time and in the south, White man was the enemy and was evil, any person that kills you, beat you, terrorize you, hate you, emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually beat you down, hold you down, and all that other ? then they are no friend of you, so Malcolm never new a white person to be civilize and when he went to Mecca he couldnt even believe what he seen and said what he said.
When Malcolm X came back he said that only Islam can cure the white man in America and through out the world where they oppress people of color from their disease, he knew that in America that they are still the enemies of black, he didnt want them to join his movement because he still believed in seperation, people need to read that speech, it's still the same Malcolm. -
perspective@100 wrote: »@waterproof,
I'm confused, do you like Malcom X? I cant tell if you are argueing for him or against him.
Matter fact I cant tell what the hell you are talking about.
Thread topic says he spit that real. I agree he did. Kinda ? up but true.
@perspective100 Yes I love Brother Malcolm X, one of the greatest man in America, a special man, a great orator, a leader who love his people, and represent Black Male Strength, who was murdered because where he was going was a threat to the establishment, joining forces with MLK, Starting a Political Party, connecting with Blacks all over the America's and the world.
But to those who think that Elijah Muhammad order the death of Brother Malcolm a person who he loved like a son, who brought him from death, i dont get down. Malcolm X was no threat to NOI, Malcolm didnt have money, a house after he left. he was no threat at all.
There was informants in Malcolm X circle, Alex Haley was giving up the goods on Malcolm X, and yes there was informants in the nation and yes there was some who didnt like Malcolm and wanted to harm him in the nation and there is always renegades and those who study the death of brother Malcolm , Malcolm almost got poison in Egypt, NOI didnt have no pull to pull that ? off, In the 60's NOI was isolated to America they wasnt messing with nobody in Africa or Muslim countries...that's some CIA type of ? .....
So there was informants in Malcolm X and NOI, you have those in NOI wanted malcolm x head and feel it's their duty to do something and acted on their own and you got the NYPD, FBI, CIA there are plenty of players but to say ELIJAH gave the orders i dont believe that ? .......
Malcolm X right hand man who was there said that Informants in the NOI and in Malcolm X circle with the help of NYPD, FBI and Bureau of Special Services killed Malcolm X, they told him to leave America and dont come back or he will be killed. and dude left
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Ok, I'm somewhat confused now. I read what you posted, but found relatively very little/brief evidence supporting your claims, and the evidence that I did found was conflicting at best.
1. From the speech, it's clear that Malcolm espoused black nationalism. I can also admit that it's clear that Malcolm espoused partial black separatism. However, like you previously noted, his philosophy had changed after his Mecca trip (and most likely was continuing to evolve even up to his death). A big part of this change that you seem to overlook is the fact that he renounced (at best) or struggled with (at worst) his fundamental racism against whites. Just because he was still a black nationalist/separatist and later became a pan-Africanist doesn't mean that he was still fundamentally racist like the NOI was. It just means that he was more about black unity, but at the same time enlightened by the fact that a people's nature had much more to do with many other qualities besides race (hence his statement: “And any time the politician is not doing his job, we remove him whether he's white, black, green, blue, yellow or whatever other color they might invent.”)
2. I still never saw any hard evidence confirming that he didn't allow whites into his organization, but I wouldn't doubt it since his organization was after all specifically based on black activism. In that sense, they were just like the Black Panthers. The BPP didn’t allow white members either, but much of the BPP’s first and foremost beef was with the corrupt and unjust law makers, police, etc. Their beef wasn’t with white people. In fact, they worked with some white people. There was even a White Panthers group. So Malcolm’s group and the BPP were veeeeery different from the NOI. It was probably a strategic/necessary move to not allow whites anyway. As you noted, there were a lot of undercover agents trying to infiltrate him. So a smart thing could be to not allow whites in order to protect you and your organization.
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I’ve never heard of anything about Malcolm joining forces with MLK, so I’m intrigued to know where you got that from. I know that Malcolm was more friendly to people like MLK after Mecca, but joining with MLK is new to me.
If you honestly think that the NOI were righteous, then you must be delusional. The NOI were racist ? -disturbers. They were even worse than some of the white supremacists of that era. By the way, the NOI actually worked together with white supremacists. When he was in the NOI, Ali talked about how he spoke at KKK rallies. And here’s a picture of infamous white supremacist George Lincoln Rockwell sitting at NOI meeting:
The NOI were ? racists. When Malcolm became enlightened and renounced that racism, they threatened and killed him. You want to blame the American government, but it was his former organization that killed him. Many legitimate NOI members who were not informants, including Elijah Muhammad himself, threatened him and wanted him dead. I’m not saying that Elijah Muhammad ordered his death. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. But if you honestly think that Elijah Muhammad and Malcolm X were on friendly terms before his death, you are delusional.
And I’ve still yet to see any hard evidence confirming that Malcolm so desperately wanted to go back to the very organization that repulsed him and wanted him dead. Still does not make sense.
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What's fair to say is that Malcolm was definitely a complicated and flawed man who never even really got the chance to fully solidify his philosophy. I'd pay a lot of money to bring him back to life just to have a conversation/debate with him.
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I’ve never heard of anything about Malcolm joining forces with MLK, so I’m intrigued to know where you got that from. I know that Malcolm was more friendly to people like MLK after Mecca, but joining with MLK is new to me.
If you honestly think that the NOI were righteous, then you must be delusional. The NOI were racist ? -disturbers. They were even worse than some of the white supremacists of that era. By the way, the NOI actually worked together with white supremacists. When he was in the NOI, Ali talked about how he spoke at KKK rallies. And here’s a picture of infamous white supremacist George Lincoln Rockwell sitting at NOI meeting:
The NOI were ? racists. When Malcolm became enlightened and renounced that racism, they threatened and killed him. You want to blame the American government, but it was his former organization that killed him. Many legitimate NOI members who were not informants, including Elijah Muhammad himself, threatened him and wanted him dead. I’m not saying that Elijah Muhammad ordered his death. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. But if you honestly think that Elijah Muhammad and Malcolm X were on friendly terms before his death, you are delusional.
And I’ve still yet to see any hard evidence confirming that Malcolm so desperately wanted to go back to the very organization that repulsed him and wanted him dead. Still does not make sense.
MLK and Malcolm X at their last days was a threat, they was going in a direction that the goverment didnt want and like, the ? structure was about to be hit real hard, THERE IS A REASON WHY YOU NEVER HEARD about MLK radical shift in the last days because they dont want you to. MLK was about to get all the poor people together, and finally express good will towards the black power movement in the 60's. MLK and Malcolm X meet together discuss about working together to get the blacks together on some true black power ? to make changes and MLK was about to get the poor people together.
All the questions you asked it's out there, it's up to you to look for it.......just liked i did, nobody showed me, like a student i researched, dugged and find.
The only thing you know about the NOI is what those who control the Media, publishing ect....tells you, the same thing that Malcolm X said u should don't but go and investigate. I never said that they didnt have faults.
But you name one Black Movement that got more blacks off of drugs, deathrow, out of jail, send them to college, put them in houses, showed them how to dress and act and change their ways, protected black women, gave them land, show them how to eat healthy, taught them self-defense, go in the ghetto's and educated then NOI, and i will wait for your answer...........
and you is a fool if you believe that the NOI was worse than the white superemacist, go back to page 1 and listen to Malcolm X again, and what he thought about people like you who said that they are just like white supremeist.
Again Malcolm X renounce that he thought that all white people are devils, you cant just cherry pick ? , go find all of his speeches, after mecca he still believed that white america is the black man enemy and that the only way that they be cured is becoming Muslim...
Man Malcolm Loved ELijah and Elijah loved malcolm like a son, he had the man to eat at his house, he was his right hand man to the point that Elijah own kids resented that their father have so much love for Malcolm, that's the lies that was pushed to seperate the brothers that same tricknology that been used against black since we were in chains.
Elijah was really hurt that after Elijah did the same thing to Malcolm that he did to his own son when his own son got out of hand.
Yes KKK and NOI meet, that is nothing new or earth shocking...i knew about that when i was a teenager. THE KKK wanted blacks to go back to africa and was killing us and the NOI wanted them to go to the white establishment and gives us or own land some states in the south, so they came together and tried to get that done.
that's what you do when you have a enemy who want to ? you, you find a common ground so both sides will be happy, that's called diplomatic talks, that's what countries do when they try not to go to war.
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Great post. What I never got about some of these white folks is how they call him or even the NOI with their bullsh*t ideology (reverse) racist when it was blacks like Malcolm and Elijah that had no civil rights, dealt with institutional racism, had to deal with sun down towns, got lynched, got their leaders killed, got their churches bombed etc. by these whites without really retaliating. It's like these people are so out of touch it's crazy.waterproof wrote: »good drop @waterproof
I need to print out of copy of this address.
Every Black person on the planet should
possess one.
@Amotekun No doubt a great speech, see people need to understand that Mecca trip was just another evolution and spiritual insight of Malcolm X that he needed to see......Just like every African American that was born in his time and in the south, White man was the enemy and was evil, any person that kills you, beat you, terrorize you, hate you, emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually beat you down, hold you down, and all that other ? then they are no friend of you, so Malcolm never new a white person to be civilize and when he went to Mecca he couldnt even believe what he seen and said what he said.
When Malcolm X came back he said that only Islam can cure the white man in America and through out the world where they oppress people of color from their disease, he knew that in America that they are still the enemies of black, he didnt want them to join his movement because he still believed in seperation, people need to read that speech, it's still the same Malcolm.
I like how some outsiders try to derail this thread. Very predictable... -
To advance Malcolm X's philosophy...I'm sure he came to the conclusion that not ALL white people are the devil.
As in not all white people are going to take an aggressive political and violent approach towards Black people.
However if one were to look at White supremacy or European sumpremacy throughout the world you realize that
one doesn't need every white person to be violent in speech or in action. Europeans American and mainland are subconsciously filled with the desire to protect the white establishment.
White people are very supportive of police, politicians, have very strong beliefs in the workings of the democratic way. Will staunchly defend the "American dream" and the "American way of life"
Even in the office what is deemed professionalism is viewed through a white lense...so this compels other non whites, Blacks especially that if they want to be in this environment to adopt the same mannerisms.
Basically every facet of being white in America is a subconscious support of white supremacy...which is why whenever
there are too many Blacks or Latinos or Asians or anything that threatens a white majority...especially Black...whites will move away, redistrict or change the rules to better suit them remaining the majority.
So while Malcolm would not have called every white person an evil devil he no doubt would have noticed and acknowledged that white people in america and abroad have an investment in keeping white supremacy in place.
I also side eye anybody calling Malcolm X a racist. How can a man be a racist because he defends and speaks out against a society that has historically brutalized and exploited people...specifically his people? @Plutarch
Yall need to start using words correctly. Racism has nothing to do with a man painting a deserving society with a broad stroke of barbarism. Racism is what whites have done deprived Black folks of the compensation for labor,
? given natural rights, and controlled their access to society based solely on their racial classification.
There is not a black person in america who can do that to a white man or attempt to do it without receiving the full wrath of government and society. Meanwhile whites still do it to us; police brutality, WOAT school system, predatory lending practices, discriminatory lending practices, war on drugs.... -
Marcus Garvey was at ? rallies as well. What's yourn point? You can't seriously compare these white supremacists to these black leaders when these white supremacists actually committed terrorist acts and had the law on their side.I’ve never heard of anything about Malcolm joining forces with MLK, so I’m intrigued to know where you got that from. I know that Malcolm was more friendly to people like MLK after Mecca, but joining with MLK is new to me.
If you honestly think that the NOI were righteous, then you must be delusional. The NOI were racist ? -disturbers. They were even worse than some of the white supremacists of that era. By the way, the NOI actually worked together with white supremacists. When he was in the NOI, Ali talked about how he spoke at KKK rallies. And here’s a picture of infamous white supremacist George Lincoln Rockwell sitting at NOI meeting:
The NOI were ? racists. When Malcolm became enlightened and renounced that racism, they threatened and killed him. You want to blame the American government, but it was his former organization that killed him. Many legitimate NOI members who were not informants, including Elijah Muhammad himself, threatened him and wanted him dead. I’m not saying that Elijah Muhammad ordered his death. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t. But if you honestly think that Elijah Muhammad and Malcolm X were on friendly terms before his death, you are delusional.
And I’ve still yet to see any hard evidence confirming that Malcolm so desperately wanted to go back to the very organization that repulsed him and wanted him dead. Still does not make sense.
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waterproof wrote: »MLK and Malcolm X at their last days was a threat, they was going in a direction that the goverment didnt want and like, the ? structure was about to be hit real hard, THERE IS A REASON WHY YOU NEVER HEARD about MLK radical shift in the last days because they dont want you to. MLK was about to get all the poor people together, and finally express good will towards the black power movement in the 60's. MLK and Malcolm X meet together discuss about working together to get the blacks together on some true black power ? to make changes and MLK was about to get the poor people together.
No, trust me, I know about MLK’s political shift during his last days. Protesting Vietnam and rallying the poor was very radical. That was the exact reason why MLK and President Johnson’s working friendship fell through. Yes, I know that Malcolm and MLK were a serious threat to the establishment. I think that this is why MLK was assassinated, but I doubt that this is the reason why Malcolm was assassinated even though the government didn’t like him either. Malcolm and MLK are and will always be heroes because they looked death right in his eyes and never wavered.
But I’m still not sure that MLK and Malcolm were as close as you’re suggesting. They met only once just by chance, and both of their philosophies were still very different, maybe even incompatible.waterproof wrote: »All the questions you asked it's out there, it's up to you to look for it.......just liked i did, nobody showed me, like a student i researched, dugged and find.
Bruh…I only asked those questions because I was asking for you to defend your claims with evidence (which is a very reasonable thing to do in an argument). The very minute that I read your claims, I did some internet searching but found nothing to support your claims, so that fact made me doubt your claims even more.
I know a lot about this topic and have done independent research as well, trust me. This is why red flags came up when I heard you state your claims.
If you don’t want to drop the evidence (which you claim exists) to support your claims, then that’s fine. I was just hoping to facilitate what I thought was an interesting debate/discussion. After all, this is a forum in the Social Lounge. If I’m interested enough, I guess that I’ll hit up a library sometime then.
That’s not true. My knowledge of the NOI comes from a wide variety of reliable sources, just as any other person serious about their research. Just because I have a different opinion, doesn’t mean my knowledge is faulty. I think that you have a lot of biases yourself.waterproof wrote: »The only thing you know about the NOI is what those who control the Media, publishing ect....waterproof wrote: »tells you, the same thing that Malcolm X said u should don't but go and investigate. I never said that they didnt have faults.
I’m not sure what that first sentence says, but as for the second one, I just got the impression that you seem to romanticize the NOI and that you seem to harmonize the NOI and Malcolm together when evidence says otherwise. I was trying to distinguish post-NOI Malcolm from NOI, saying that post NOI-Malcolm was not racist (which you seem to suggest) and that the NOI were racist – and this is why they should not be regarded as “allies.”
Of course the NOI did a lot of good. I’m not trying to completely discredit them. Even though there were other Black Movements who also did those things, the NOI helped the black community immensely.waterproof wrote: »But you name one Black Movement that got more blacks off of drugs, deathrow, out of jail, send them to college, put them in houses, showed them how to dress and act and change their ways, protected black women, gave them land, show them how to eat healthy, taught them self-defense, go in the ghetto's and educated then NOI, and i will wait for your answer...........
But this can’t be an excuse to justify the bad that they did as well (not saying that you were trying to do that though).waterproof wrote: »and you is a fool if you believe that the NOI was worse than the white superemacist, go back to page 1 and listen to Malcolm X again, and what he thought about people like you who said that they are just like white supremeist.
I am just like a white supremacist? Lol. Okay you got me there. You’d have to explain that one for me.
As for my statement that the NOI were worse than white supremacists, sorry but I think that you misunderstood me, though I wasn’t too clear myself. I was saying that the NOI were worse (in terms of being racist) than some white supremacists, and I still believe that. It’s simply crazy just how racist they were. -
waterproof wrote: »Again Malcolm X renounce that he thought that all white people are devils, you cant just cherry pick ? , go find all of his speeches, after mecca he still believed that white america is the black man enemy and that the only way that they be cured is becoming Muslim...
Sorry, I don’t understand how I’m cherry picking.
As for everything else you said, that much is already clear and I agree. I don’t think that I ever said anything that contradicted any of that. Malcolm’s beef was not with white people per se. His beef was with the (predominantly white, though also black) American system that oppressed many blacks (and others as well).waterproof wrote: »Man Malcolm Loved ELijah and Elijah loved malcolm like a son, he had the man to eat at his house, he was his right hand man to the point that Elijah own kids resented that their father have so much love for Malcolm, that's the lies that was pushed to seperate the brothers that same tricknology that been used against black since we were in chains.
Elijah was really hurt that after Elijah did the same thing to Malcolm that he did to his own son when his own son got out of hand.
I just don’t understand any of that. Facts and hard evidence say otherwise. I can understand Elijah Muhammad and Malcolm being so close and friendly BEFORE Malcolm left. But AFTER Malcolm left, that friendship turned into bitter hatred (like most former friendships do). Here is a quote from Elijah Muhammad AFTER Malcolm left: “Hypocrites like Malcolm should have their heads cut off." That love which you spoke of was long gone by then. We can’t just ignore this though.waterproof wrote: »Yes KKK and NOI meet, that is nothing new or earth shocking...i knew about that when i was a teenager. THE KKK wanted blacks to go back to africa and was killing us and the NOI wanted them to go to the white establishment and gives us or own land some states in the south, so they came together and tried to get that done.
that's what you do when you have a enemy who want to ? you, you find a common ground so both sides will be happy, that's called diplomatic talks, that's what countries do when they try not to go to war.
Ok, sorry if I was telling you something that you already knew, but I said that not for the shock value. I was just trying to further drive the point that the NOI were ? racists and that Malcolm was not. And so it makes complete sense that they would “team up” with other ? racists and ? separatists. It was like ? Germany and Fascist Italy teaming up during WWII. They didn’t like each other, but they both represented the same ? and therefore could come together. But like I said, Malcolm was not ? racist, and this was why he and many other NOI members were NOT down with those white supremacists. He even threatened to ? Rockwell if Rockwell harmed MLK. This is the same Rockwell who admired Elijah Muhammad and called him the “Black ? .” So you can already further see the differences between Malcolm and Elijah Muhammad/NOI, which is, once again, another countera-rgument to your claims.
What’s more interesting though is that none of this seems to bother you or change your opinion of the NOI. The NOI was cool with the same people whom you claim to hate. I doubt that Rockwell wanted to “cede” South state to blacks. That makes no sense. Rockwell and Elijah Muhammad simply wanted to further their separatist agenda. “Try not to go to war”??? These groups were all too ready for war and were instigating the war. They would’ve been more than happy to go to war. The NOI doesn’t strike me as a group that wanted to compromise in the name of peace. You seem to be rationalizing all of this.
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Muhannad X wrote: »Marcus Garvey was at ? rallies as well. What's yourn point?
Yeah, I think that you completely missed my point. But you’re probably also very biased, so that’s no surprise. Please see the last two paragraphs of my complete, recent response to waterproof to understand my point.Muhannad X wrote: »You can't seriously compare these white supremacists to these black leaders
I don’t even know where to start with this full statement.
So “I can’t seriously compare these white supremacists to these black leaders”? You could just as easily say that “I can’t seriously compare these white leaders to these black supremacists.” But no, you would never say that because you’re so emotionally invested in your bias.Muhannad X wrote: »when these white supremacists actually committed terrorist acts and had the law on their side.
So the NOI never committed terrorist acts?? I’d recommend you do some research my brother.
Also, these (I’m not exactly sure who we’re talking about) white supremacists did have the law on their side but also didn’t have the law on their side. Local law many times helped them, but federal law did not. The federal government, especially the FBI, actually directly and indirectly destroyed much of the white supremacist movement in America. Interestingly enough, the federal government also destroyed much of the black supremacist movement in America as well. What a coincidence!Muhannad X wrote: »Great post.
Meh, I would’ve given it a 6-7/10. Overall, mostly everything said was true. But it’s the vagueness that bothered me. Looked almost like a bit of equivocation.Muhannad X wrote: »What I never got about some of these white folks is how they call him or even the NOI with their bullsh*t ideology (reverse) racist
This probably wasn’t directed at me, but I don’t care. People call the NOI and Malcolm racist simply because they were. What’s so hard to understand about that? Don’t tell me you’re one of those people who thinks that black people can’t be racist.Muhannad X wrote: »when it was blacks like Malcolm and Elijah that had no civil rights, dealt with institutional racism, had to deal with sun down towns, got lynched, got their leaders killed, got their churches bombed etc. by these whites
This has nothing do with arguing that Malcolm and the NOI were not racists. This just sounds like an appeal to emotion, which is a fallacy that distorts logic and truth. If my entire family was killed because they were black, and then I went ahead and killed someone else as a result because he was white, that does not justify my racism/violence even though I was tragically wronged.Muhannad X wrote: »without really retaliating.
Wow, you can’t be serious. You’re so biased, that you don’t even realize how biased you are. Nobody “really” retaliated? Really? These black people just took it and did nothing? These black people just remained innocent victims?Muhannad X wrote: »It's like these people are so out of touch it's crazy.
Oh the irony…Muhannad X wrote: »I like how some outsiders try to derail this thread. Very predictable...
Ok, this one sounds like it was directed at me (I’m resisting the incredible urge to hit you with a “feelings” reaction right now). The fact that you even used the word, “outsiders,” already might tell me something very important about you.
Anyway, no one is derailing this thread, so calm down. People are just having a debate in an internet forum designed for debates. And waterproof was the one to start this debate, so cry to him if this bothers you so much.
This thread is about Malcolm and his philosophy (not about "hey everybody, let's suck Malcolm's ? "), and every post in here has been about Malcolm and his philosophy, so no one is derailing this thread (which is not even your thread to begin with so what's with the policing attitude?). If this thread was derailed, then ts or the mods would do something about it. And I doubt that you would have a problem if you liked what was being said.
But you really haven’t said anything though. You’re just cosigning a lot, which could be a red flag for someone who can’t really think for himself. If you disagree so much, then respond to the major parts of my posts instead of cosigning and nitpicking trivial stuff. -
To advance Malcolm X's philosophy...I'm sure he came to the conclusion that not ALL white people are the devil.
Wooow, and so the rationalizations begin. That’s the weakest excuse I’ve ever heard. So if I’m understanding you right, Malcolm came to the conclusion that not all white people are devils simply to make his philosophy more “marketable”? That doesn’t even sound like Malcolm. What makes Malcolm Malcolm is the fact that he never compromised and kept it real.
Malcolm came to the conclusion that not all whites were devils simply because that conclusion is true, and he was exposed to that truth when he broke free from the lies of the NOI and their philosophy.
Or maybe I’m misunderstanding you…I hope that I’m misunderstanding you…As in not all white people are going to take an aggressive political and violent approach towards Black people.
Not quite. Imo (and bear with me on this one because this might be a little radical), it’s more like “as in not all white people are the same.” Just like the crazy idea that not all black people are the same? Or like the even crazier idea that the ideology of race is completely ? ?However if one were to look at White supremacy or European sumpremacy throughout the world you realize that
one doesn't need every white person to be violent in speech or in action.
Of course. That much is simple. It’s the same with all racial supremacy groups. But if you’re making some larger point, then I’m not understanding it.Europeans American and mainland are subconsciously filled with the desire to protect the white establishment.
I call ? . I don’t even know how anyone can even adequately support such a generalization. And I’m not a big believer in psychology (“subconscious” is not even a real psychological term, but just a made up one by pseudo-psychologists). What the ? is even “the white establishment”?White people are very supportive of police, politicians, have very strong beliefs in the workings of the democratic way. Will staunchly defend the "American dream" and the "American way of life"
More ? generalizations. I don’t even know how to respond to this. But even if this was true, I’m still not understanding any larger point that you might seem to be making.Even in the office what is deemed professionalism is viewed through a white lense...so this compels other non whites, Blacks especially that if they want to be in this environment to adopt the same mannerisms.
This is very true. I think that I might be understanding a little more of what you’re trying to say. Basically, you’re saying that there is a dominant, mostly white culture in America? That is true. And that other marginal cultures sometimes suffer? That is also true. Here, I think that we’re on the same page.Basically every facet of being white in America is a subconscious support of white supremacy...which is why whenever
there are too many Blacks or Latinos or Asians or anything that threatens a white majority...especially Black...whites will move away, redistrict or change the rules to better suit them remaining the majority.
I partially disagree. I think that you’re giving race and racism/racists too much credit. Class, culture, politics, religion, and nationality play much larger roles than race when it comes to the dominant, American “system.”
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So while Malcolm would not have called every white person an evil devil he no doubt would have noticed and acknowledged that white people in america and abroad have an investment in keeping white supremacy in place.
But it’s not white people who had an investment in keeping white supremacy in place, it’s white racists who had that investment. And not all white people were/are white racists. And I’m willing to bet that Malcolm knew this simple truth, especially after his Mecca pilgrimage.I also side eye anybody calling Malcolm X a racist.
Was Malcolm X racist towards whites, especially when he was in the NOI? Of course he was. Therefore, he was racist. Simple as that. It’s nothing personal. It is what it is. However, he did let up on that racism after his time in the NOI and after the pilgrimage.
This looks like a logical fallacy.How can a man be a racist because he defends and speaks out against a society that has historically brutalized and exploited people...specifically his people? @Plutarch
Being racist and defending and speaking out against a society that has historically brutalized and exploited your people are not mutually exclusive. One person can do both things at the same time, and that is what Malcolm did.
On the other hand, it is perfectly possible to NOT be racist and to still defend and speak out against a society that has historically brutalized and exploited your people. Many black activists did this, including MLK.Yall need to start using words correctly. Racism has nothing to do with a man painting a deserving society with a broad stroke of barbarism.
You need to start using words correctly. Racism in its basic sense is simply the ideology of a belief in races. Therefore, racism can be negative when it advocates racial discrimination and/or supremacy, or it can be positive when it doesn’t. The racism we and most people refer to when we use the term is the former. So I don’t understand this “confusion."Racism is what whites have done deprived Black folks of the compensation for labor,
? given natural rights, and controlled their access to society based solely on their racial classification.
Ok, that’s true but why does it seem like you only speak of racism as “racism = white oppression of blacks,” as if all groups of people (regardless of race) have never oppressed other groups of people (including the racism of blacks oppressing whites)? You can’t possibly be this biased, can you?There is not a black person in america who can do that to a white man or attempt to do it without receiving the full wrath of government and society.
? .Meanwhile whites still do it to us; police brutality, WOAT school system, predatory lending practices, discriminatory lending practices, war on drugs....
Mostly more ? . These problems (which aren’t specific to blacks only btw) were/are caused by a wide variety of sources (which aren’t even close to being specific to race only btw). Again, you’re giving race and racism faaaaaaaar too much credit. You can’t blame everything on whitey. This whole issue is so much deeper than rap. I think that if we really want to advance as a peoples, we need to get out of this racist mindset and educate ourselves, stop stereotyping and generalizing our own selves, take and own responsibility and accountability for our circumstances where it counts, and get to work.
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I wish alot of these leaders left America and planted there ideas and movemnts in places like Brazil, Jamaica or Ghana. I truly believe they would have been better respected and protected.
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well, considering that i'm referring to Farrakhan's supposed remorse, leading to him claiming he didn't want to take Malcolm's mosque and home... and considering we're talking about a guy who stabbed Malcolm in the back over Muhammad and is often linked to Malcolm getting killed... i think it's go a little to do with itwaterproof wrote: »Again i can give a flying ? about Louie if he cried or not, that have ? to do with Malcolm wanted to go back home.
so what? Louis also proceeded to replace him in Boston and then replace him as national minister, and he actively acted against him within the NOI. now the whole thing with Wallace is a different matter, but this comes down to "do you want to grow the NOI into practicing real Islam or not" and that's another matterwaterproof wrote: »MAN miss me with that ? , Louie was a student of Malcolm, Malcolm brought him to the Nation...
i don't even get what this is a response towaterproof wrote: »again miss me with that ? , Malcolm is only a man and Pride is a muthafucka now you can say all that ? you want but malcolm admit that he got to big for his britches and only a man.
see, what's funny is that it's well-documented that plotting to ? Malcolm X was talked about openly in the NOI and that the guys who killed him had NOI connections. yet you don't want to mention this at all, and instead mentioning the FBI informants. but the FBI doesn't have anything to do with Muhammadwaterproof wrote: »Malcolm X was not a threat to NOI, that some ? and made up, Malcolm X right hand man who was there said other wise. And in Malcolm X own close circle there was fbi informants.
you seem to be arguing hard as hell otherwise.waterproof wrote: »Again 1964 Malcolm asked for forgiveness from Elijah Muhammad, now yeah Louie said some ? up ? about Brother Malcolm i wont deny that
also, as far as this "miss me with that ? ," how about you miss me with your inability to get a new catchphrase? -
on the other hand, Malcolm X didn't have money or a house because the NOI was ? with him over said money and said house. if he was no threat, why go out of your way to attack him?waterproof wrote: »Malcolm X was no threat to NOI, Malcolm didnt have money, a house after he left. he was no threat at all.
could we all start noting that the picture does not show the KKK, but the American ? Partywaterproof wrote: »Yes KKK and NOI meet, that is nothing new or earth shocking...i knew about that when i was a teenager. THE KKK wanted blacks to go back to africa and was killing us and the NOI wanted them to go to the white establishment and gives us or own land some states in the south, so they came together and tried to get that done.
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well, considering that i'm referring to Farrakhan's supposed remorse, leading to him claiming he didn't want to take Malcolm's mosque and home... and considering we're talking about a guy who stabbed Malcolm in the back over Muhammad and is often linked to Malcolm getting killed... i think it's go a little to do with itwaterproof wrote: »Again i can give a flying ? about Louie if he cried or not, that have ? to do with Malcolm wanted to go back home.
so what? Louis also proceeded to replace him in Boston and then replace him as national minister, and he actively acted against him within the NOI. now the whole thing with Wallace is a different matter, but this comes down to "do you want to grow the NOI into practicing real Islam or not" and that's another matterwaterproof wrote: »MAN miss me with that ? , Louie was a student of Malcolm, Malcolm brought him to the Nation...
i don't even get what this is a response towaterproof wrote: »again miss me with that ? , Malcolm is only a man and Pride is a muthafucka now you can say all that ? you want but malcolm admit that he got to big for his britches and only a man.
see, what's funny is that it's well-documented that plotting to ? Malcolm X was talked about openly in the NOI and that the guys who killed him had NOI connections. yet you don't want to mention this at all, and instead mentioning the FBI informants. but the FBI doesn't have anything to do with Muhammadwaterproof wrote: »Malcolm X was not a threat to NOI, that some ? and made up, Malcolm X right hand man who was there said other wise. And in Malcolm X own close circle there was fbi informants.
you seem to be arguing hard as hell otherwise.waterproof wrote: »Again 1964 Malcolm asked for forgiveness from Elijah Muhammad, now yeah Louie said some ? up ? about Brother Malcolm i wont deny that
also, as far as this "miss me with that ? ," how about you miss me with your inability to get a new catchphrase?
How in the hell did Louie take Malcolm Home. Malcolm Home, Car ect....was the property of NOI, again you giving Louie to much credit for a person who was an editor for Muhammad Speaks who was not in no power at that time, Elijah sons was next in Line.....How in the hell did Louie stab Malcolm in the back, did Malcolm bring Louie to the Nation, Yes he did....Just like Malcolm was brought into the Nation by somebody else. Louie and just like every other person that Malcolm X brought in the nation decided to stay with the Nation, Malcolm X asked nobody to follow him and if they decided to stay with the Nation than just like Malcolm accepted then so should you.....
So what if Elijah put Louie in Malcolm spot......You know why Elijah put Malcolm in the position that he was instead of his sons because Elijah seen something in Malcolm, Malcolm had a gift.....And Malcolm seen something in Louie to make him his student, so if Elijah put Louie into Malcolm Spot instead of his own sons then common sense will tell you that Elijah seen a gifted speaker in Louie just like Malcolm..
No ? people was talking openly to ? Malcolm in NOI, you have FBI informants that was inside the NOI stirring up ? like they did to the BPP, SNCC and other civil rights groups, it's well documented that The informants in NOI was working with informants in Malcolm X circle...... oh yeah it's funny as hell that you missed me mention that there was members in the NOI that wasnt planted wanted to hurt malcolm and do harm to him, i already said that guy, but back to the lecture at hand, those who killed Malcolm was informants, Malcolm X right hand man gave truth to that.
It seem like you are offended that Malcolm X wanted to go home, im just stating facts that is well known.. oh yeah miss me with that ? about me finding a new phrase, i like that phrase... -
on the other hand, Malcolm X didn't have money or a house because the NOI was ? with him over said money and said house. if he was no threat, why go out of your way to attack him?waterproof wrote: »Malcolm X was no threat to NOI, Malcolm didnt have money, a house after he left. he was no threat at all.
could we all start noting that the picture does not show the KKK, but the American ? Partywaterproof wrote: »Yes KKK and NOI meet, that is nothing new or earth shocking...i knew about that when i was a teenager. THE KKK wanted blacks to go back to africa and was killing us and the NOI wanted them to go to the white establishment and gives us or own land some states in the south, so they came together and tried to get that done.
This is how Malcolm X was not threat to the NOI, Malcolm X chapter had Thousands of members and when he left it was only a 150 that left with him, out of thousands.....that's how he was no threat to the NOI....... so you telling me that Malcolm X who was not reinstated after his 90 day suspension and knew that he wasnt going to be allowed to go back to the NOI, decided to leave THEN AIR OUT THE FAMILY ? LAUNDRY since he wasnt welcome back, that the NOI was just going to sit there and watch there Minster to get slandered after he gave life back to Malcolm and thousands others black men and women...., that's why they came to defense of Elijah Muhammad in the papers and also said slanderous things about Malcolm...Both Parties was wrong for that.... -
Im going to put it like this because I am About Life and not Death and end this conversation, If you expect me to sit here and watch this game that being played when the people who Killed Malcolm X started this game by trying to Put Malcolm X against the NOI and the NOI against Malcolm X...i will not partake in such foolishness.
The same People put Huey P against Bobby Seale, Put George Jackson Black Guerilla Family against the BPP, SNCC leadership against MLK......putting Blacks against Black to this day......the very same people who saying Malcolm X is ? and MLK is ? ........
So if you want to believe it go ahead nobody is stepping on my toes but i will not Slander or put Malcolm X against NOI, when Both of these Great Black Man in Elijah and Malcolm X loved each other like Father and Son, and was torn apart......Malcolm was in the NOI for 17 years of his life and both men hurted each other it's a cycle in our community....
Malcolm X is not innocent nor is Elijah Muhammad both Man have faults.
Malcolm X letter to Elijah Muhammad during his exile when he said there's people putting them against each other.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Edz6IG0hrM
And history do repeats itself because Louie did the same thing to Khalid that Elijah did to Malcolm, MALCOLM is gone but his spirit is alive, may he rest in peace with our ancestors and his message live on forever..... -
Now im done with THE DEATH OF BROTHER MALCOLM X my heritage is about life and continuing the spirit of the fallen ones.......LET CELEBRATE THE LIFE OF BROTHER MALCOLM X and bring LIFE to THIS THREAD of BROTHER MALCOLM X
Arrested Development - Revolution (Malcolm X)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDF8Evb_jQw -
Malcolm X - You Can't Hate the Roots Of A Tree
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb-tjIUu0i4&playnext=1&list=PL6CCECA824700A6D8&feature=results_video
MALCOLM X EXPLAINS BLACK NATIONALISM (March 29, 1964)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO6Co8v2XjY -
you know what else i am doing? QUOTING LOUIS FARRAKHAN.waterproof wrote: »How in the hell did Louie take Malcolm Home. Malcolm Home, Car ect....was the property of NOI, again you giving Louie to much credit-
Malcolm went around amongst the NOI talking about Muhammad's infidelities because, let's be honest, it was a big story and a very negative revelation about him; Farrakhan essentially went to Muhammad/Ali/etc and said "oh, Malcolm's talking all this ? out of self-promotion." seems pretty clear.waterproof wrote: »How in the hell did Louie stab Malcolm in the back-
i don't know why you keep telling me that Malcolm brought Farrakhan into the NOI. what about that reflects in any way on what i'm saying about these guys?waterproof wrote: »-did Malcolm bring Louie to the Nation, Yes he did....Just like Malcolm was brought into the Nation by somebody else. Louie and just like every other person that Malcolm X brought in the nation decided to stay with the Nation, Malcolm X asked nobody to follow him and if they decided to stay with the Nation than just like Malcolm accepted then so should you
well, for one thing, it ties into the part i mentioned originally about "i don't know what a guy who's prominently involved in removing and replacing Malcolm X has do to with Malcolm X's relationship with the NOI." for another, it responds to you saying "Louie was low on the totem pole and had no pull in the nation." was he low on the totem pole or not?waterproof wrote: »So what if Elijah put Louie in Malcolm spot...
however, you're dismissing it out of hand because you are making a flurry of excuses for the NOI.waterproof wrote: »oh yeah it's funny as hell that you missed me mention that there was members in the NOI that wasnt planted wanted to hurt malcolm and do harm to him, i already said that guy
nope. i will go so far as to note the reason why you're not naming anyone is because you cannot support this claim in any way.waterproof wrote: »-but back to the lecture at hand, those who killed Malcolm was informants
what i'm OFFENDED by is you going out of your way to make every possible excuse for the behavior of the NOI and its leadership. as far as him "going home," i have actually possibly read about the topic and the truth of the matter seems much more like "wanted to repair the relationship enough to end the hostility" rather than "going home." Malcolm spent years chafing under and/or clashing with the NOI's stances on politics; the fact is that he wanted to grow BEYOND what he was allowed to do and say in the NOI.waterproof wrote: »It seem like you are offended that Malcolm X wanted to go home, im just stating facts that is well known...
well, a phrase that's redundant as hell remains a phrase that's redundant as hellwaterproof wrote: »oh yeah miss me with that ? about me finding a new phrase, i like that phrase... -
at which point i will again repeat, "if he was no threat, why go out of your way to attack him?"waterproof wrote: »This is how Malcolm X was not threat to the NOI, Malcolm X chapter had Thousands of members and when he left it was only a 150 that left with him, out of thousands.....that's how he was no threat to the NOI...
or, in other words, they viewed him as a threat to the image (and dare i say, profitability) of the NOI. so why are we playing this game where you want to claim Malcolm was never a threat to the NOI, and thus they would never attack or harm him, yet acknowledge that they felt compelled to go after him for his actions?waterproof wrote: ».... so you telling me that Malcolm X who was not reinstated after his 90 day suspension and knew that he wasnt going to be allowed to go back to the NOI, decided to leave THEN AIR OUT THE FAMILY ? LAUNDRY since he wasnt welcome back, that the NOI was just going to sit there and watch there Minster to get slandered-
although in this exchange you seem quite content to give one of these men a total passwaterproof wrote: »Malcolm X is not innocent nor is Elijah Muhammad both Man have faults. -
at which point i will again repeat, "if he was no threat, why go out of your way to attack him?"waterproof wrote: »This is how Malcolm X was not threat to the NOI, Malcolm X chapter had Thousands of members and when he left it was only a 150 that left with him, out of thousands.....that's how he was no threat to the NOI...
or, in other words, they viewed him as a threat to the image (and dare i say, profitability) of the NOI. so why are we playing this game where you want to claim Malcolm was never a threat to the NOI, and thus they would never attack or harm him, yet acknowledge that they felt compelled to go after him for his actions?waterproof wrote: ».... so you telling me that Malcolm X who was not reinstated after his 90 day suspension and knew that he wasnt going to be allowed to go back to the NOI, decided to leave THEN AIR OUT THE FAMILY ? LAUNDRY since he wasnt welcome back, that the NOI was just going to sit there and watch there Minster to get slandered-
although in this exchange you seem quite content to give one of these men a total passwaterproof wrote: »Malcolm X is not innocent nor is Elijah Muhammad both Man have faults.
I already said my peace on this so i leave it like that
This discussion has been closed.