Liberal in Social Issues but Conservative Financially....How is this possible?

nujerz84
nujerz84 Members Posts: 15,418 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited December 2013 in The Social Lounge
This is something a lot of people say they are... I suppose as a way to give a safe cliched politically correct answer when asked where they stand politically without seeming too far right or too far left.

My thing is how can one be Liberal on Social Issues and Conservative financially without being hypocritical?

So on issues of job creation/unemployment, healthcare and education the liberal view would be something like free/affordable healthcare and education with jobs that pay well.

In order to do so the government be it local, state and federal would have to come up with plans to finance these things...if you conservative financially then you would be against raising taxes, raising pay rate and/or government funding these programs.

I suppose ? marriage is the only "social issue" where this is possible... Fighting Poverty means better education and jobs as well any programs to help those that maybe struggling with substance abuse etc...


So what say you?

Comments

  • Jewpac
    Jewpac Members Posts: 267 ✭✭
    Sounds a bit like Libertarianism
  • Soloman_The_Wise
    Soloman_The_Wise Members Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2013
    [img]https://scontent-a.? .fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/p480x480/997009_10152078078803118_677089716_n.jpg[/img]

    [img]https://scontent-b.? .fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/p480x480/1487370_10152096584867726_1160365844_n.jpg[/img]
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    this is roughly where i fall, so i mean, you can tell me where it doesn't work, but i find it really helps if you a) don't really give a ? about what a lot of people do and b) want people to stop ? with how you personally live

    i mean, i suppose it depends on what you mean by "liberal" and "conservative" on the issues; i am the IC's #1 pro-gun guy, so i guess that's a "conservative social issue" to some, although i prefer to think of it as "wanting the government to stop ? with how i live"
  • TheManInBlack4.0
    TheManInBlack4.0 Members Posts: 836 ✭✭✭✭
    janklow wrote: »
    this is roughly where i fall, so i mean, you can tell me where it doesn't work, but i find it really helps if you a) don't really give a ? about what a lot of people do and b) want people to stop ? with how you personally live

    i mean, i suppose it depends on what you mean by "liberal" and "conservative" on the issues; i am the IC's #1 pro-gun guy, so i guess that's a "conservative social issue" to some, although i prefer to think of it as "wanting the government to stop ? with how i live"

    Careful Janklow, you might shoot your eye out with that thing.

    Or build a bunker in rural Maryland.

    Just make room for the bottled water and Spam between the arsenal.
  • Focal Point
    Focal Point Members Posts: 16,307 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That GOAT political lifestyle apparently
  • Soloman_The_Wise
    Soloman_The_Wise Members Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Just make room for the bottled water and Spam between the arsenal.
    i don't really care much for spam, to be honest
  • TheManInBlack4.0
    TheManInBlack4.0 Members Posts: 836 ✭✭✭✭
    janklow wrote: »
    Just make room for the bottled water and Spam between the arsenal.
    i don't really care much for spam, to be honest

    I've never had it.

    I read it's the closest tasting thing to human flesh which led me to some questions left unanswered.

  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had spam as a kid, I don't remember how it tastes though.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    I've never had it.
    I read it's the closest tasting thing to human flesh which led me to some questions left unanswered.
    i ate some many years ago and you're not really missing out on much

  • Say What
    Say What Members Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭
    Everything has a give and take. I feel we need a way to pay for things prior to starting them. I won't fight every raise in taxes but I expect the bill to be paid.
  • bornnraisedoffCMR
    bornnraisedoffCMR Members Posts: 1,073 ✭✭
    I dont see how it's not possible. I am a libertarian. I guess you can say I am "liberal" in the true sense of the word, classical liberal on social issues. At the end of the day I beleive in the principle of non aggression. I dont own you, your property or your body so who am I to tell you what to do? If you want be ? , ? dogs, smoke ? , or just live a peaceful life without anyone sticking a gun in your face, that is up to you. So as long as you dont interfere with my life, property, or ability to progress.

    So ? marraige for instance. Why is that a government issue, at all? Marraige, from a legal stand point is simply a contract between 2 people (or more if you believe in that sort of thing). Government got involved in the early 1900's with tax credits and ? like that. Prior to that it was between yall and your church.

    Drugs? That's your body. Religion, thats on you. Basically, "social issues" should not have a place in public policy.

    Fiscally, I guess I am far more than conservative. I really believe in no taxes, or vouluntary taxes. I do not believe that government central planning is the best way to deliever public services.
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch Members Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2014
    ^^^ this guy gets it.

    one thing that we should understand is that Americans corrupted the true meaning of many "original" terms including but not limited to "republican" (the American Republican Party is not truly republican) and "liberal" (the American Democratic Party is not truly liberal).

    "Liberal" simply means freedom. Freedom across all boards whether socially or economically. Since the age of man, the opposite of liberalism - slavery, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, monarchism, feudalism and serfdom, dictatorship, empires, etc. - was (and continues to be to an extent) the dominant status quo. Liberalism only began to have definitive success starting in the 17th century, including the founding of the United States. The term "liberal" was co-opted by the emergence of social liberals (especially FDR), who mixed liberalism with other philosophies. So in America, "liberal" exclusively refers to social liberalism, but it doesn't refer to either the original form of liberalism nor neoliberalism, both of which are opposed to social liberalism. In Europe, liberalism isn't nearly as corrupted and has largely maintained it's origins.

    Many libertarians are the only ones who are consistent when it comes to liberalism because, like Solomon posted, they believe in freedom and choice across all boards. Constitutionalists are the same way because the Constitution was never designed to have the government regulate who you marry or what you smoke. Neither was the Constitution designed to micromanage the economy and your income.

    Republicans apparently believe in economic freedom but not social freedom, and Democrats apparently believe in social freedom but not economic freedom. There's the hypocrisy, and many people know this. Many people are libertarians to a large degree and don't even know it.

    "Liberal in social issues but conservative financially" or however you want to say it, it doesn't seem hypocritical when you know the history behind the terms. All these labels - "right," "left," "republican," "liberal," democratic," "conservative," etc. - have been so diluted that they don't really hold any weight, especially with truly consistent and principled political philosophies like libertarianism.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Plutarch wrote: »
    Republicans apparently believe in economic freedom but not social freedom, and Democrats apparently believe in social freedom but not economic freedom. There's the hypocrisy, and many people know this. Many people are libertarians to a large degree and don't even know it.
    i've said it before and i'll say it again: it's probably not even that cut and dry, since i bet we can find things under "social freedom" that Democrats are opposed to

  • Plutarch
    Plutarch Members Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    janklow wrote: »
    Plutarch wrote: »
    Republicans apparently believe in economic freedom but not social freedom, and Democrats apparently believe in social freedom but not economic freedom. There's the hypocrisy, and many people know this. Many people are libertarians to a large degree and don't even know it.
    i've said it before and i'll say it again: it's probably not even that cut and dry, since i bet we can find things under "social freedom" that Democrats are opposed to

    True. Obama and company are against the use of marijuana, like the Republicans. It's funny because I, and many others, actually believe that mainstream Republicans and Democrats are far more similar than they are oppositional. The overall point is that both are imo far more inconsistent/hypocritical than many progressives, constitutionalists, libertarians, etc.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Plutarch wrote: »
    True. Obama and company are against the use of marijuana, like the Republicans. It's funny because I, and many others, actually believe that mainstream Republicans and Democrats are far more similar than they are oppositional. The overall point is that both are imo far more inconsistent/hypocritical than many progressives, constitutionalists, libertarians, etc.
    there's also a thread of being statists/authoritarians/whatever first in both parties

  • mc317
    mc317 Members Posts: 5,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ConservativesConservativesConservativesConservativesConservativesConservatives
    Sara palin-stupid ? idiot
    Michelle bachman-stupid idiot
    Anti abortion
    Pro death penalty
    Guns for the mentally insane
    ConservativesConservatives
    Glen Beck-? goats in the ass
    Rush limbaugh- oxycontin popping ? head shaking ? boi
    Conservatives
    Smaller govt but we'll tell you what you can and cannot smoke, drink, or marry
    ConservativesConservatives
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    mc317 wrote: »
    Guns for the mentally insane
    not sure this is an accurate representation of anyone's political position

  • mc317
    mc317 Members Posts: 5,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ted nugent does not support any background checks or mental record access for weapons.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    mc317 wrote: »
    Ted nugent does not support any background checks-
    this is not exactly what you claimed prior
    mc317 wrote: »
    -or mental record access for weapons.
    alright, let's have a quote or a cite or something? (not that he's a politician but still)

  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    mc317 wrote: »
    here's the Nugent quote from the article:
    "In this day and age of terminal apathy and soulless discontent, I adore anyone who is an activist and stands up for what he or she believes… My loving brother Jeffery is becoming one of those activists, and I salute the great man,” writes Nugent. “His recent opinion on his support for expanded background checks for firearms purchasers is dead wrong, however. Passing expanded background checks would do nothing to curtail or suppress thugs or psychos from accessing weapons and committing mass murder, carjacking, the nightly shootouts in Chicago or a gangsta shooting at the Mother’s Day parade in New Orleans."

    ...so Nugent doesn't support EXPANDING background checks. can i get a citation that supports your prior claim?
  • mc317
    mc317 Members Posts: 5,548 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nugents brother supports them ted nugent doesnt, his brother said its crazy to let people with mental illnesses have guns.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    mc317 wrote: »
    Nugents brother supports them ted nugent doesnt, his brother said its crazy to let people with mental illnesses have guns.
    well, let me ask you again: could you find a quote of Nugent actually SAYING that?

    i read the article, dude: Nugent's brother supports "expanded background checks" and Nugent does not. this is not the same thing as the above claim.

  • FatterThanKat
    FatterThanKat Members Posts: 677
    Libertarianism