Russia Prepares for Military Intervention in Ukraine. Cold War II looming?

Black Boy King
Black Boy King Members Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 2014 in The Social Lounge
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/world/europe/ukraine.html?hp&_r=0
SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine — As Russian-backed armed forces effectively seized control of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula on Saturday, President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia requested —and received — authorization from the Russian Senate to use military force in Ukraine.

The actions signaled publicly for the first time the Kremlin’s readiness to intervene militarily in Ukraine, and it served as a blunt response to President Obama, who just hours earlier pointedly warned Russia to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty.

Within hours after receiving Mr. Putin’s request, Russia’s upper house of parliament, the Federation Council, voted to approve it, after a debate that warned of the apocalyptic consequences of failing to stop a fascist threat from spreading to Russia’s borders. The lawmakers directed considerable fury at President Obama and others in the West they accused of fomenting the upheaval in Ukraine.
Continue reading the main story via link











This is directly after John Kerry "warning" to Russia.




http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/kerry-warns-russia-that-military-action-in-ukraine-could-lead-to-international-backlash/2014/02/26/92a9834a-9f35-11e3-9ba6-800d1192d08b_story.html
The United States warned Russia on Wednesday against military intervention in Ukraine and said any incursion could lead to a broad international backlash.

Secretary of State John F. Kerry also pledged $1 billion in emergency U.S. loan guarantees to help Ukraine’s new, temporary government as it reels from the ouster of President Viktor Yanukovych last weekend.

“I don’t think there should be any doubt whatsoever that any kind of military intervention that would violate the sovereign territorial integrity of Ukraine would be a huge — a grave — mistake,” Kerry said in a roundtable interview with reporters.

The United States, United Nations and others would react, Kerry said, without specifying how.
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Comments

  • MzKB
    MzKB Members Posts: 3,366 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How exactly is this affecting the US?
    What is in it for the US to react this way?
  • cainvelasquez
    cainvelasquez Members Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2014
    Cold war 2 has already started. Russia making power moves, but Obama knows his chess too. Let's see what happens.
  • cainvelasquez
    cainvelasquez Members Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2014
    MzKB wrote: »
    How exactly is this affecting the US?
    What is in it for the US to react this way?

    US is a global economic powerhouse. You best believe this balance might shift if Russia can make power moves freely, next China will take Taiwan. Other smaller countries will bow down before Russia and China. It would be easier for them to gain access to worldwide resources. How are US gonna stay the top powerhouse if Russia and China control the world?
  • Black Boy King
    Black Boy King Members Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    MzKB wrote: »
    How exactly is this affecting the US?
    What is in it for the US to react this way?

    The million dollar question, mademoiselle.
    MzKB wrote: »
    How exactly is this affecting the US?
    What is in it for the US to react this way?

    US is a global economic powerhouse. You best believe this balance might shift if Russia can make power moves freely, next China will take Taiwan. Other smaller countries will bow down before Russia and China. It would be easier for them to gain access to worldwide resources. How are US gonna stay the top powerhouse if Russia and China control the world?

    The question is, why was/is the US intervening with Ukraine in the first place, knowing that it is Russian territory and is vital to them (being their access to the Black Sea)?

    The US is being provocative, plain and simple. What unfolds during the next few weeks (and how the media portrays it) will be very interesting.


    Remember, this is all after Iran (Russian ally) has deployed warships into the Atlantic (and is ignoring the nuclear restrictions given to them), China is being extremely aggressive in the Pacific, and Russia is expanding it's military presence to Venezuela, CUBA, and several other countries.


    wtf...
  • cainvelasquez
    cainvelasquez Members Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Judah Back wrote: »
    MzKB wrote: »
    How exactly is this affecting the US?
    What is in it for the US to react this way?

    The million dollar question, mademoiselle.
    MzKB wrote: »
    How exactly is this affecting the US?
    What is in it for the US to react this way?

    US is a global economic powerhouse. You best believe this balance might shift if Russia can make power moves freely, next China will take Taiwan. Other smaller countries will bow down before Russia and China. It would be easier for them to gain access to worldwide resources. How are US gonna stay the top powerhouse if Russia and China control the world?

    The question is, why was/is the US intervening with Ukraine in the first place, knowing that it is Russian territory and is vital to them (being their access to the Black Sea)?

    The US is being provocative, plain and simple. What unfolds during the next few weeks (and how the media portrays it) will be very interesting.


    Remember, this is all after Iran (Russian ally) has deployed warships into the Atlantic (and is ignoring the nuclear restrictions given to them), China is being extremely aggressive in the Pacific, and Russia is expanding it's military presence to Venezuela, CUBA, and several other countries.


    wtf...

    Russia has no claim on Ukraine, however in Crimea there a lot of russians. Crimea is autonomous, but a part of Ukraine. Ukraine has oil, gas and connection to the black sea(which russia have been fighting over for 300 years, see crimean wars). It is an economic issue for russia, and US obviously don't want a strong Russia.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the usa ain't gonna do ? and Obama knows it.
  • Jabu_Rule
    Jabu_Rule Members Posts: 5,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From what i keep hearing, the US promised to protect if they gave up their Nukes. It was a promise made before they signed them over to Russia, Great Britain and The United States. I guess it wasn't the wisest move on their part.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2014
    Very interesting but America is better off not getting involved in this. Ukraine is too close to Russia and we're not gonna be able to do anything about it anyway. Personally, America should be more worried about Russia and its military ships around our borders, they want to have Latin American countries hold their warships.
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
    right and thats why we back colombia to keep venezuela in check.

    but those warships aint gonna do half of what we could do.....

    by the time those ships fire a few rounds off they will be sunk, we would invade cuba an this time take it. launch an attack from germany and poland and that small diego island in the indian ocean...all before russia can even mobilize its troops to begin to launch an attack against any interests.

    the only chance russia has against america is nukes.

    and the only reason putin is being an ass is because of Obama's color.

    he cant lose to a black man
  • Got Em Shook
    Got Em Shook Members Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭✭✭
    USA, UK are bound by agreement to protect Ukraine, which basically means the whole of NATO and EU will have to side along them.

    Unlike Lybia, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq with the Ukraine there are existing agreements and treaties ensuring its protection. This is not "butting in", this is honoring deals and obligations. Putin was just ignorant of the existence of these, even though Russia itself signed the Budapest Memorandum
  • Swiffness!
    Swiffness! Members Posts: 10,128 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Man everyone know the US ain't starting no war over this lol. I think its funny how even the craziest Hawks acknowledge this, but still blame Obama for not starting a war anyway lol. Seriously though, if McCain was President he woulda been had the 5th Fleet in the Black Sea and this ? would be Call of Duty status. All these "US WARNS RUSSIA" headlines were such ? , you could tell Obama was clearly referring to international condemnation and sanctions when he was talking about "costs" and "repercussions". It's like the whole world has a WW3 fetish.

    LOL @ these supposed treaties between the US and Ukraine. ? please why don't you go ask the Native Americans about some treaties.

    Putin got problems:

    - hey remember that 50 ? BILLION he spent trying to give Russia good PR during the Olympics? Well whatever little of that survived the Sochi tap water twitter pics and ? Riot police brutality is completely gone now.

    - “Moscow knows an army invasion would cause too many problems, so they’re operating just below the waterline to make it look like a bottom-up movement led by ethnic Russians" Does any body not getting their info from RT News actually believe this tho? Lot of trouble for an alibi that's fooling no-one.

    - The risk Putin's taking here is enormous. "Moscow is not only wrecking its reputation with most Ukrainians, but it is also potentially risking a ruinous war that could make it a pariah in much of the world for little real gain." That's putting it mildly. Russia has major oil and gas pipelines running through Ukraine to Europe. Russia has a slowing economy. Putin is ? where he eats BIG TIME if he turns this into a bloodbath.
  • K_Fisher
    K_Fisher Members Posts: 2,285 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a bold attempt to maintain their grasp on Ukraine.The new government formed as a result of the protests is pro western and will probably be puppets to Washington and am sure Russia don't like the idea of the US setting up bases so close to its borders. Sadly Like the Georgia affair , Washington will do nothing but stand by and watch Russia invade Ukraine and silence any pro western movement or government.
  • Jabu_Rule
    Jabu_Rule Members Posts: 5,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2014
    Russia is too hype on themselves. The United States has never been about directly engaging Russia (USSR). Most of the post WW2 wars were fought because Russia was on the other side trying to influence things but people always seem to think it was the people vs the United States engagement. It was about limiting Russia's influence. All the United States has to do is funnel money and weapons into the Ukraine to support their cause just like Afghanistan in the 80s. On the flip side, Neo Nazis seem to be on the other side of this conflict. This ? is Metro 2033 irl.
  • Ip man
    Ip man Members Posts: 995 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Judah Back wrote: »
    MzKB wrote: »
    How exactly is this affecting the US?
    What is in it for the US to react this way?

    The million dollar question, mademoiselle.
    MzKB wrote: »
    How exactly is this affecting the US?
    What is in it for the US to react this way?

    US is a global economic powerhouse. You best believe this balance might shift if Russia can make power moves freely, next China will take Taiwan. Other smaller countries will bow down before Russia and China. It would be easier for them to gain access to worldwide resources. How are US gonna stay the top powerhouse if Russia and China control the world?

    The question is, why was/is the US intervening with Ukraine in the first place, knowing that it is Russian territory and is vital to them (being their access to the Black Sea)?

    The US is being provocative, plain and simple. What unfolds during the next few weeks (and how the media portrays it) will be very interesting.


    Remember, this is all after Iran (Russian ally) has deployed warships into the Atlantic (and is ignoring the nuclear restrictions given to them), China is being extremely aggressive in the Pacific, and Russia is expanding it's military presence to Venezuela, CUBA, and several other countries.


    wtf...

    It's coming...
  • indyman87
    indyman87 Members Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭✭
    http://www.voltairenet.org/article182329.html


    The Ukraine: Neo-? criminal state looming in the centre of Europe
    On February 22, militants and terrorists of the Euromaidan Parliament executed a neo-? coup using armed force, violating all norms of the Constitution, international law, and trampling European values. Washington and Brussels - who told the world that Euromaidan is a nonviolent action of the Ukrainian people - instigated a ? coup to serve the geopolitical interests of the West, facilitated de facto by the weak-kneed stance of the Yanukovych government.
  • indyman87
    indyman87 Members Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭✭
    I can't blame Russia for acting the way they are considering some of these circumstances are similiar to the events that lead to the death of their King in 1917-? Monday soldiers killing protestors with gun fire but the King/Tsar at the time Nicholas denied ordering the shootings and now flash forward to now were the Ukrainian Leader says he didn't order the snipers to ? the protestors.

    from wikipedia...

    On Sunday, 9 (22) January 1905, Gapon began his march. Locking arms, the workers marched peacefully through the streets. Some carried religious icons and banners, as well as national flags and portraits of the Tsar. As they walked they sang hymns and the Imperial anthem, '? Save The Tsar'. At 2PM all of the converging processions were scheduled to arrive at the Winter Palace. There was no single confrontation with the troops. Throughout the city, at bridges on strategic boulevards, the marchers found their way blocked by lines of infantry, backed by Cossacks and Hussars; and the soldiers opened fire on the crowd.[44]

    And the Bolsheviks that overthrew the Russian Tsar Nicholas and killed his family were kinda like Nazis or influenced by them...

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070117095815AAoxaYW

    BOLSHEVISM

    The 1917 Bolshevik Revolution in Russia ended czarist rule. Actually, that's not quite right. A coalition of anti-czarists ended czarist rule, and the majority among them were called, "The Majority," or Bolshevik. (The minority were called Menshevik.)

    Bolshevism is best understood as the program of V.I. Lenin after the Revolution. In the 1920s, the Bolsheviks faced a large resistance movement, and Russia had its own civil war. To deal with the aftereffects of World War I and the ongoing Civil War, Lenin - formerly inspired by the Communist ideal of Marx & Engels - promoted "state socialism" as a way of battling the Bolsheviks' enemies, theoretically on the path toward the withering away of the state.

    The state in question only withered away in 1991, after much suffering and loss of life.





    Today the Russians are said to be mostly Nationalist like they were before their last King/Tsar was killed in 1917 and that is why they're doing what they're doing in Ukraine because they're protecting their people who make up about 70 percent in the Crimean. I'm sure if 70 percent of Americans lived in the Crimean the United States would probably do the same thing.

  • brown321
    brown321 Members Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm sure the west had something to do with the uprising, so they can chill with the BS talk.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2014
    brown321 wrote: »
    I'm sure the west had something to do with the uprising, so they can chill with the BS talk.

    Exactly, And after America threw missiles in Libya and killed hundreds if not thousands in 2012, over the African Union's protests, America and the West really have no moral authority to say ? . America violates international law all the time anyway.....Europe can't do much either because they need Russia's gas too badly, even if the European Union do somehow take Ukraine, Russia has its own deposits that Europe needs
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2014
    pralims wrote: »
    right and thats why we back colombia to keep venezuela in check.

    but those warships aint gonna do half of what we could do.....

    by the time those ships fire a few rounds off they will be sunk, we would invade cuba an this time take it. launch an attack from germany and poland and that small diego island in the indian ocean...all before russia can even mobilize its troops to begin to launch an attack against any interests.

    the only chance russia has against america is nukes.

    and the only reason putin is being an ass is because of Obama's color.

    he cant lose to a black man

    Russia has been acting this way since Genghis Khan and the Mongols ran up in that ass in the 13 and 1400s, the invasions traumatized them so they feel the need to have a large empire or at least a large realm of influence. America has been the same since Pearl Harbor, after WW2, America became the superpower of the world. Americans said never again and the Russians felt the same in the 1500s.... this is bigger then Obama and has more to do with influence and resources (and naval bases that Russia has there). I'm sure Putin gets satisfaction knowing he's ? Obama off though, but Obama can't be too ? , he's violated international law quite often himself.

    And I agree America would win head to head with Russia but it wouldn't be a pretty victory. Definitely not worth it, considering how America hasn't won a war in awhile.
  • Darth Sidious
    Darth Sidious Members Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2014
    Cold War? We'll be lucky if it's a return to the Cold war and not a Hot war.
    MzKB wrote: »
    How exactly is this affecting the US?
    What is in it for the US to react this way?

    You are about to find out in a very real and meaningful way. This is an extremely dangerous situation for the world and that can't be emphasized enough.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2014
    Cold War? We'll be lucky if it's a return to the Cold war and not a Hot war.
    MzKB wrote: »
    How exactly is this affecting the US?
    What is in it for the US to react this way?

    You are about to find out in a very real and meaningful way. This is an extremely dangerous situation for the world and that can't be emphasized enough.

    Extremely dangerous? Do you honestly believe the European Union and America will do something aside from talk and sanctions? The European Union don't want their gas cut off homie......
  • Maximus Rex
    Maximus Rex Members Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2014
    MzKB wrote: »
    next China will take Taiwan. Other smaller countries will bow down before Russia and China.

    Why is Taiwan strategically important to the U. S.
    It would be easier for them to gain access to worldwide resources. How are US gonna stay the top powerhouse if Russia and China control the world?

    Considering how the world loves to talk bad about us, when we do try to help out. Maybe it's time to let some body run the world. Then when Russia and China start doing the fool, we can sit back have a Sam Adams, play Madden, and say "We told you so. Y'all didn't listen when we told you that world was a better place with the U.S. providing a buttress against Russia and now China, but y'all didn't hear us through. Now the ? is thick, and y'all want us to "throw on the cape," and save your ? ass. Naw mayne, we cool. Go have the Brits, the Germans, or better yet THE FRENCH, and have them come and save you.
  • Darth Sidious
    Darth Sidious Members Posts: 2,507 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Extremely dangerous? Do you honestly believe the European Union and America will do something aside from talk and sanctions? The European Union don't want their gas cut off homie......

    Yeah, I do and many others do also. Even if we blink and do nothing, this will destabilize a very large region and the world economy for many years to come.

    http://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2014/03/222720.htm

    John Kerry
    Secretary of State
    Washington, DC
    March 1, 2014

    The United States condemns the Russian Federation's invasion and occupation of Ukrainian territory, and its violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity in full contravention of Russia’s obligations under the UN Charter, the Helsinki Final Act, its 1997 military basing agreement with Ukraine, and the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. This action is a threat to the peace and security of Ukraine, and the wider region.

    I spoke with President Turchynov this morning to assure him he had the strong support of the United States and commend the new government for showing the utmost restraint in the face of the clear and present danger to the integrity of their state, and the assaults on their sovereignty. We also urge that the Government of Ukraine continue to make clear, as it has from throughout this crisis, its commitment to protect the rights of all Ukrainians and uphold its international obligations.

    As President Obama has said, we call for Russia to withdraw its forces back to bases, refrain from interference elsewhere in Ukraine, and support international mediation to address any legitimate issues regarding the protection of minority rights or security.

    From day one, we've made clear that we recognize and respect Russia’s ties to Ukraine and its concerns about treatment of ethnic Russians. But these concerns can and must be addressed in a way that does not violate Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, by directly engaging the Government of Ukraine.

    Unless immediate and concrete steps are taken by Russia to deescalate tensions, the effect on U.S.-Russian relations and on Russia’s international standing will be profound.


    Budapest Memorandums on Security Assurances, 1994

    http://www.cfr.org/arms-control-disarmament-and-nonproliferation/budapest-memorandums-security-assurances-1994/p32484

    The Presidents of Ukraine, Russian Federation and United States of America, and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom signed three memorandums (UN Document A/49/765) on December 5, 1994, with the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

    Confirm the following:

    1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine;

    2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or

    political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Extremely dangerous? Do you honestly believe the European Union and America will do something aside from talk and sanctions? The European Union don't want their gas cut off homie......

    Yeah, I do and many others do also. Even if we blink and do nothing, this will destabilize a very large region and the world economy for many years to come.

    http://www.state.gov/secretary/remarks/2014/03/222720.htm

    John Kerry
    Secretary of State
    Washington, DC
    March 1, 2014

    The United States condemns the Russian Federation's invasion and occupation of Ukrainian territory, and its violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity in full contravention of Russia’s obligations under the UN Charter, the Helsinki Final Act, its 1997 military basing agreement with Ukraine, and the 1994 Budapest Memorandum. This action is a threat to the peace and security of Ukraine, and the wider region.

    I spoke with President Turchynov this morning to assure him he had the strong support of the United States and commend the new government for showing the utmost restraint in the face of the clear and present danger to the integrity of their state, and the assaults on their sovereignty. We also urge that the Government of Ukraine continue to make clear, as it has from throughout this crisis, its commitment to protect the rights of all Ukrainians and uphold its international obligations.

    As President Obama has said, we call for Russia to withdraw its forces back to bases, refrain from interference elsewhere in Ukraine, and support international mediation to address any legitimate issues regarding the protection of minority rights or security.

    From day one, we've made clear that we recognize and respect Russia’s ties to Ukraine and its concerns about treatment of ethnic Russians. But these concerns can and must be addressed in a way that does not violate Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, by directly engaging the Government of Ukraine.

    Unless immediate and concrete steps are taken by Russia to deescalate tensions, the effect on U.S.-Russian relations and on Russia’s international standing will be profound.


    Budapest Memorandums on Security Assurances, 1994

    http://www.cfr.org/arms-control-disarmament-and-nonproliferation/budapest-memorandums-security-assurances-1994/p32484

    The Presidents of Ukraine, Russian Federation and United States of America, and the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom signed three memorandums (UN Document A/49/765) on December 5, 1994, with the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.

    Confirm the following:

    1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine;

    2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or

    political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;



    It's gonna be a very interesting few days and weeks. I don't believe Ukraine will take on Russia on its own and believe Russia will take Crimea from Ukraine soon. All without a shot being fired. I could be wrong though but either way I hope America doesn't get involved. Europe is already struggling with high unemployment, if Russia cuts off the gas supplies or at least lowers the amount it sells, it will scare Europe enough to back down but again, I could be wrong. America is just too weak to really try any war ? with a powerful military at this point. Even conservatives are saying war isn't an option, that's telling you something.