J Cole will never be considered a great, because he embodies the stereotypical "great rapper
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idoitforhiphop10
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in The Reason
NOTE: I DID NOT WRITE THIS. This is taken strictly from this thread I saw on Kanyetothe.com. I'm just copying and pastin it just to see what the Reason's opinion of this is. It was blowin up on other forums so I just decided to post it here to see what ya think of this. Here's the link to the original thread right here:
http://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/index.php?topic=995625.0
In the mid 2000s, the internet rap community was largely unsatisfied with hip hop as a genre. This was the time when Soulja Boi and D4L were the bane of "real hip hop" fans' existence. This was the time when Nas felt like saying "hip hop is dead".
J Cole set himself up to be the answer to this dissatisfaction. I mean, dude came up on a Canibus forum under the name Therapist. J Cole seems like the epitome of what people were asking for in a great rapper. He came from a single-mom, poor background. He was a star basketball player who actually went to college. He's hood enough to be real, yet not ignorant. He raps about "real issues" like abortion and self image and not just money and hoes. He rhymes over soul beats. He can flow.
But here's the thing: Cole seems like a character a bunch of 50 year old white movie executives would invent to make a movie about (read in a movie-narrator voice)"the underdog rapper who's 'sideline story' took him to stardom, all while keeping it real, being a good example to the kids, and learning a bit about himself along the way".
The ? is so cliche and expected. His verses are very literal, sort of like Hopsin, and seem like something you'd find on the text rap section of a "real hiphop" forum. His beats are consistently good, expected, and never surprise. His subject matter begs for middle aged suburban dads to say "you know what Billy, maybe I was wrong about this here hippity hop stuff." He raps like he wants nothing more than to be mentioned in the "You say Lil Gayne, I say Eminem" YouTube comments. He strives to fit into the narrative of "great hip hop", leading to the production of the unlistenable "Let Nas Down" ? riding.
I think a good analogy is photorealism in art. Essentially, photorealism is a drawing/painting that looks almost indistinguishable from a photograph. Many novice art students find photorealism to be the best type of art. "Of course it's amazing to be able to use a pencil to make a real-looking picture!" But nah. It's boring and expected. It's 100% technical skill, 0% innovation. Even when it looks amazing, it's completely expected. That's why the art world largely doesn't care about it. An abstract Van Gogh, or the schizophrenic doodlings of Basquiat are FARRRRRR more exciting and thought provoking than a really super realistic drawing of some portrait. No photorealist picture is exciting or new or special, no matter how much talent it took. And that is Cole: Huge amounts of talent, but the finished product is unsurprising and mundane. Do we know that he's going to rap about an abortion or how his crooked teeth don't bother him anymore? No, but we knew something like that was coming.
Great artists are artists that would not be the typical response when asking fans to describe create an ideal artist. We never asked for an egotistical rapper with a passion for high fashion, art, religious imagery, and gender-bending production, Kanye invented that. We never asked for a racoon-faced rapper with a weird nasally voice who pronounces ? as "dih" and writes strange, synthy choruses, but we got Kendrick. We never asked for a ? white psychopath who raps about ? his mom and mocks celebs over funky circus-inspired Dre beats, but we got Eminem.
We DID ask for a J Cole, we got him, and it's just as underwhelming as we should have expected.
http://www.kanyetothe.com/forum/index.php?topic=995625.0
In the mid 2000s, the internet rap community was largely unsatisfied with hip hop as a genre. This was the time when Soulja Boi and D4L were the bane of "real hip hop" fans' existence. This was the time when Nas felt like saying "hip hop is dead".
J Cole set himself up to be the answer to this dissatisfaction. I mean, dude came up on a Canibus forum under the name Therapist. J Cole seems like the epitome of what people were asking for in a great rapper. He came from a single-mom, poor background. He was a star basketball player who actually went to college. He's hood enough to be real, yet not ignorant. He raps about "real issues" like abortion and self image and not just money and hoes. He rhymes over soul beats. He can flow.
But here's the thing: Cole seems like a character a bunch of 50 year old white movie executives would invent to make a movie about (read in a movie-narrator voice)"the underdog rapper who's 'sideline story' took him to stardom, all while keeping it real, being a good example to the kids, and learning a bit about himself along the way".
The ? is so cliche and expected. His verses are very literal, sort of like Hopsin, and seem like something you'd find on the text rap section of a "real hiphop" forum. His beats are consistently good, expected, and never surprise. His subject matter begs for middle aged suburban dads to say "you know what Billy, maybe I was wrong about this here hippity hop stuff." He raps like he wants nothing more than to be mentioned in the "You say Lil Gayne, I say Eminem" YouTube comments. He strives to fit into the narrative of "great hip hop", leading to the production of the unlistenable "Let Nas Down" ? riding.
I think a good analogy is photorealism in art. Essentially, photorealism is a drawing/painting that looks almost indistinguishable from a photograph. Many novice art students find photorealism to be the best type of art. "Of course it's amazing to be able to use a pencil to make a real-looking picture!" But nah. It's boring and expected. It's 100% technical skill, 0% innovation. Even when it looks amazing, it's completely expected. That's why the art world largely doesn't care about it. An abstract Van Gogh, or the schizophrenic doodlings of Basquiat are FARRRRRR more exciting and thought provoking than a really super realistic drawing of some portrait. No photorealist picture is exciting or new or special, no matter how much talent it took. And that is Cole: Huge amounts of talent, but the finished product is unsurprising and mundane. Do we know that he's going to rap about an abortion or how his crooked teeth don't bother him anymore? No, but we knew something like that was coming.
Great artists are artists that would not be the typical response when asking fans to describe create an ideal artist. We never asked for an egotistical rapper with a passion for high fashion, art, religious imagery, and gender-bending production, Kanye invented that. We never asked for a racoon-faced rapper with a weird nasally voice who pronounces ? as "dih" and writes strange, synthy choruses, but we got Kendrick. We never asked for a ? white psychopath who raps about ? his mom and mocks celebs over funky circus-inspired Dre beats, but we got Eminem.
We DID ask for a J Cole, we got him, and it's just as underwhelming as we should have expected.
Comments
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Interesting take on J Cole's uninterestingness. I can't muster up the strength to make an insightful comment about this uninteresting base subject though.
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thinly veiled hate from what i read... which wasnt much...
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He thinks J Cole is uninteresting I think he's the opposite. Music is subjective. I wonder what people want from Cole? Maybe he should rap over rolling drum beats, bite Future's flow and rap about mollies. That'll make him "interesting" ? outta here.
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I'm a Cole fan as many know. I've said and continue to say J COLE IS TOO HUMBLE, dude has no edge to him. He seems like he is just happy to make it. He is so content with being the underdog, ? you've sold two gold albums and platinum hits, talk your ? .
You got ? who ain't do half of what he did (Big Sean. Meek,etc) who act like they're Eminem is success. lol
Cole seems like one of those rappers who is just content to have a fanbase who consistently buy his ? . I don't know if he will ever break out his little niche. -
Sounds like another instance where "rap fans" really don't know what they want
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Word.manofmorehouse wrote: »Sounds like another instance where "rap fans" really don't know what they want
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The problem with that article is it ignores where those artists came from.
Kanye became what he is now, he was not always this way. In fact, he was more like Cole when he began. Kanye rapped about regular life stuff and people could relate ("spaceships", "all falls down", "roses" etc) over the last several years, after solidifying himself, Kanye took even greater risks with his content, abandoning the relatable stories he once had.
Eminem also didn't begin his career rapping about killing his mom. Infinite is very much a regular rap album...just from a white rapper. When he started becoming frustrated with life and his career he became Eminem.
Cole hasn't gotten to that point yet where he is solidified enough to take risks or frustrated enough to come up with off the wall/shock content...he hasn't gotten there...yet. He hasn't become who he will be, I'm sure in a few more years we will look back and say "I remember when dude was normal", this stuff comes with maturity as an artist...he's not at that point yet. -
5th Letter wrote: »He thinks J Cole is uninteresting I think he's the opposite. Music is subjective. I wonder what people want from Cole? Maybe he should rap over rolling drum beats, bite Future's flow and rap about mollies. That'll make him "interesting" ? outta here.
You could have stopped there or discussed why you find him interesting. Instead you open a can that I wouldn't expect a seasoned internet hip hop forum moderator to open. -
I'm never gonna get the Cole hate, and let Nas down was dope
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5th Letter wrote: »He thinks J Cole is uninteresting I think he's the opposite. Music is subjective. I wonder what people want from Cole? Maybe he should rap over rolling drum beats, bite Future's flow and rap about mollies. That'll make him "interesting" ? outta here.
You could have stopped there or discussed why you find him interesting. Instead you open a can that I wouldn't expect a seasoned internet hip hop forum moderator to open.
His subject matter is relatable to me. He came from hardship and is a "hood" ? without the extraness. He speaks on real ? like embracing your imperfections, embracing the fact that he has a college degree especially when rappers pretend to be dumber than they are (Plies) he speaks on relationships and the growing pains in which that entails. He's shown a level of creativity with his concept songs and he makes dope beats.
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Cole will have a long career. even if he doesn't live up to expectations from rap fans
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Lmao at "racoon faced" kendrick!!!!
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Face*
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5th Letter wrote: »He thinks J Cole is uninteresting I think he's the opposite. Music is subjective. I wonder what people want from Cole? Maybe he should rap over rolling drum beats, bite Future's flow and rap about mollies. That'll make him "interesting" ? outta here.
rolling drum beats wouldnt be bad tho...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp3iWjpLNik -
Peezy_Jenkins wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »He thinks J Cole is uninteresting I think he's the opposite. Music is subjective. I wonder what people want from Cole? Maybe he should rap over rolling drum beats, bite Future's flow and rap about mollies. That'll make him "interesting" ? outta here.
rolling drum beats wouldnt be bad tho...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp3iWjpLNik
I ? with that joint.
Oh yea Cole World nugga!!! -
I agree wit everybody that said that Cole's gonna get better with time, I've said that for years and he's already showing signs o improvement. I just don't understand what makes him "safe" or "boring' like his critics always point out. There's nothing safe about producing your whole album and having no features on there. If anything, that's a huge risk he too, esp. with his reputation of being "boring". I noticed it's always those hipsters that calls him safe.
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I'm a Cole fan as many know. I've said and continue to say J COLE IS TOO HUMBLE, dude has no edge to him. He seems like he is just happy to make it. He is so content with being the underdog, ? you've sold two gold albums and platinum hits, talk your ? .
You got ? who ain't do half of what he did (Big Sean. Meek,etc) who act like they're Eminem is success. lol
Cole seems like one of those rappers who is just content to have a fanbase who consistently buy his ? . I don't know if he will ever break out his little niche.
I get what you're sayin but that ? comes with alot of ? though. It's a 2 sided coin. For an artist like J. Cole, who prolly plans on sticking around he doesnt really need that since he'll be one of those who'll rely on his fanbase. And if that "talk that ? " thing aint him, then why should he? I mean dont hip-hop fans always talk about being yourself and keeping it real? If that aint him that aint him, no? -
SnuffDaddy wrote: »I'm a Cole fan as many know. I've said and continue to say J COLE IS TOO HUMBLE, dude has no edge to him. He seems like he is just happy to make it. He is so content with being the underdog, ? you've sold two gold albums and platinum hits, talk your ? .
You got ? who ain't do half of what he did (Big Sean. Meek,etc) who act like they're Eminem is success. lol
Cole seems like one of those rappers who is just content to have a fanbase who consistently buy his ? . I don't know if he will ever break out his little niche.
I get what you're sayin but that ? comes with alot of ? though. It's a 2 sided coin. For an artist like J. Cole, who prolly plans on sticking around he doesnt really need that since he'll be one of those who'll rely on his fanbase. And if that "talk that ? " thing aint him, then why should he? I mean dont hip-hop fans always talk about being yourself and keeping it real? If that aint him that aint him, no?
Because part of being a mc is being cocky, thinking you're the ? . Who the hell want to listen to a humble rapper all the damn time, even Nas flex on tracks.
It's cool to be introspective, but there has to be a balance. It's what made his idol Pac one of the goats.
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I know who wrote that post
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who told you that?SnuffDaddy wrote: »I'm a Cole fan as many know. I've said and continue to say J COLE IS TOO HUMBLE, dude has no edge to him. He seems like he is just happy to make it. He is so content with being the underdog, ? you've sold two gold albums and platinum hits, talk your ? .
You got ? who ain't do half of what he did (Big Sean. Meek,etc) who act like they're Eminem is success. lol
Cole seems like one of those rappers who is just content to have a fanbase who consistently buy his ? . I don't know if he will ever break out his little niche.
I get what you're sayin but that ? comes with alot of ? though. It's a 2 sided coin. For an artist like J. Cole, who prolly plans on sticking around he doesnt really need that since he'll be one of those who'll rely on his fanbase. And if that "talk that ? " thing aint him, then why should he? I mean dont hip-hop fans always talk about being yourself and keeping it real? If that aint him that aint him, no?
Because part of being a mc is being cocky, thinking you're the ? . Who the hell want to listen to a humble rapper all the damn time, even Nas flex on tracks.
It's cool to be introspective, but there has to be a balance. It's what made his idol Pac one of the goats.
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Usmarine always thinks he knows how to fix jcole
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Doesn't hip hop have enough cartoon characters already? So being normal is a liability now? This is part of why the game is on blocks right now.
EDIT: This reads like a Complex article. -
name a rapper who has changed the game who was humble? I'll wait
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Bottom line: If you don't like his music you don't like his music, but don't backwards rationalize why.
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It's interesting' well thought out article. I liked it, only thing is, not every artist has to be ? weird and crazy.
He's a normal dude, level headed and humble I agree, he doesn't talk his mouth off and say weird things on interviews.
So sorry he's not acting like a ? for the media and fans sake so everyone can point finger at him and make fun of him for being a ? like kanye but now he's just so uninteresting and not enigmatic enough for your entertainment.
Only thing I can say about him is that his beats need to pop more and be more aggressive, I get the whole, I wanna produce the whole album by myself thing for cohesiveness but for his third album, he should try some hard thumping beats, not sure if it will suit him but give it a shot. Get dre, timbo, pharrell, or
You got em, kendrick, and kanye being them, that's great, cole is cole, leave it be. It's like picking on the dude for being himself, not putting on a cartoonized, caricature version of a rapper.
