Mayweather without a doubt is one of the best (arguably the best) but ain't got no KO punch

luke1733 Members Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭✭
edited September 2014 in From the Cheap Seats
Only so much I can critique greatness. I know there's other threads on Mayweather, but this one is on a specific point.

Dude could knock TI out before the bell rung and most likely beat 50 Cent in the ring. Before I get on the negative, I think he's one of the best boxers ever and want him to go undefeated.

Roy Jones was my favorite boxer and the best boxer of my generation that I saw, but when it comes to a technically efficient boxer that can hit you with clean power punches without you hitting him back I think Mayweather is #1 of all boxers for all time. This does not make him the best boxer ever. That belongs to Ali.

NOW MY POINT is: on something that I couldn't find on the internet so I had to concoct the stats I could find. I wanted to know what was the average amount of times a championship Hall of Fame boxer has KO'd his opponents. My thought was Mayweather had to be in the bottom percentile and below average when it came to Hall of Fame championship boxers who KO'd their opponents. I was right. The average for the boxers I looked at was that the average HOF boxer knocked out 63% of their opponents. Mayweather knocked out 55%. Now, a person who watches Mayweather's fights knows he easily could have knocked out at least 10 more opponents but he chose not to knock them out. Well, I can't do anything with that stat because that's like saying the other boxer's could have easily knocked out some more of their opponents but decided not to. Even in the times Mayweather did knock his opponents out he had to hit them numerous times while they were hurt before they were hurt enough to fall. Other boxers sometimes hit you with 4 shots and you're out cold.
What you all think of Mayweather not knocking people out? Is it too risky to go for a knockout and risk getting Ko'd?
Is this the style he has chosen or did he make the choice to out point his opponents because he knew he could not knock them out? You have any other critiques or comments on Mayweather.



  • luke1733
    luke1733 Members Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2014
    Yo, these are the boxers I compared Mayweather with. Go to wikipedia and look at their total number of fights and look out the KO's and you'll see how I got their percentages. On here, I'm just going to label the percentage of KO's that they dealt their opponents. In other words "if your ass fought George Foreman, there was a 84% chance you were going to get KO'd." If you fought Bernard Hopkins "there was a 49% chance you get KO'd".
    If you FIGHT MAYWEATHER THERE IS A 55% CHANCE YOU GET KO'D (even less since his ko's have decreased drastically over the years).

    Tommy Hearns KO'd 72% of his opponents
    Mayweather 55%
    Lewis 72%
    Roy Jones 63%
    George Foreman 84%
    Julio Chavez 74%
    Victor Ortiz 61%
    Marvin Hagler 78%
    Bernard Hopkins 49%
    Sugar Shane Moseley 70%
    Mike Tyson 76%
    Joe Frazier 73%
    Sonny Liston 72%
    Zab Judah 57%
    Guillermo Jones 71%
    Sugar Ray Leonard 63%
    Muhammad Ali (the Greatest)- 61%
    People you might not know but I looked on HOF list and just took the first 29 names that appeared
    Henry Armstrong 67%
    Carmen 48%
    Ezzard 61%
    Billy 23%
    Bob 82%
    Kid 25%
    Emile 23%
    Jake Lamotto (old ass boxer) 36%
    Joe Louis 79%
    Rocky Marciano-88%
    Sugar Ray Robinson-62%
    Sandy 72%
    Rocky Graziano-78%
    Ruben- 89%
    Carlos 49%
    Floyd Patterson 73%
    Salvador 73%
    ? 45%
    Tony 67%
    Charles 60%

    Based on all 46 of these boxers (all weight classes) from early boxing to current day their KO ratio average was 63%. Mayweather is 55%

    Other boxers I didn't mention were: Antonio Tarver won 37 fights an Ko'd 21 of his opponents.
    Oscar De La Hoya won 45 fights and KO'd 30
    Klitshcko fought 47 fights KO'd 41
    Manny Pacquiao 63 fights KO'd 38
    Glen Johnson (first dude who KO'd Roy Jones and gave him a seizure) fought 75 fights KO'd 37
  • luke1733
    luke1733 Members Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2014
    I'm about to rant and ramble: You gotta give me that chance since I laid out some research for y'all.
    Now my point is made I'll ramble so y'all don't misunderstand where I put Mayweather. Mayweather is hands down one of the best. He is the best when it comes to hitting you. His percentage rate is through the roof and I remember he is THE BEST. No boxer has or has had a higher percentage rate of the amounts of punches he hits you with in comparison to how many he throws. In other words if he releases a punch there's a 90% chance you're going to get hit by that punch and it will be a power punch and not a jab.
    The other stat Mayweather is the best at is he doesn't get hit. Among all boxers recorded, he gets hit the least of all boxers throughout all history. Boxer's who fight him miss punching him at historic rates. You won't touch Mayweather.
    Anyone who knows boxing knows he is quick as Hell and has excellent footwork. He also will change his style according to how you fight, so therefore you can't study how he fought another fighter because he changes his style during the fight to cater to you. He has many styles.

    MAYWEATHER AIN'T NEVER FIGHT NOBODY-folks gotta stop saying that. He fought at least 7 top notched boxers. That's the average number if not above average number of times a champion of any day or any name has fought legitimate bona-fide challengers. He's held the belt for 17 years and noone has been able to take it.

    Above everything he even signed a deal with Showtime and let a a cable company pick 6 fights for him at the end of his career. No boxer with his riches and his legacy of being undefeated being on the line would have allowed a cable company to pick his fights and be the one to air and set up the one match that could tarnish and ruin him forever, especially at the end of his career. 38 years old in boxing is ANCIENT. So a fighter whose camp don't even pick his fights is dodging people at the end of his career? That doesn't even make sense.
    Another thing is dude went to prison, got out and still whooped ass.
    The rep on Pacquiao: Pacquiao refused to take the olypmic steroid test, wanted a 50/50 cut on the fight when Mayweather had the most to lose and is/was/is the champ and the Money Maker plus Mayweather called Pacquiao on his home phone, spoke to him and said "we have to make this happen let's figure it out," Pac-Man responded talk to my manager and hung up the phone.
    Now even at that, a champ is supposed to duck an up-and coming young grasshopper for at least 2 years? Why? Because you can't make everyone a millionaire just because they say I can whoop you? You've been drinking Don Perignon and riding in private jets on private islands sexing models around the world living in 5 mansions and promoting your own fights. You gotta let someone else whose been training in gyms with no a/c makes no money and is a second away from going to prison soften up a little or at least get his record up to prove he's done the work to legitimately be in your "class" before you grant them the privilege to fight you and ruin your throne. It's what Frazier did to Ali when Ali was begging Frazier to fight and it's what Foreman did to Ali also when Ali again begged Foreman to fight.It's called the pecking order. Manny don't call the shots.Then after Mayweather called Pac-Man out on them steroids, within one year Pac-Man started getting knocked out again.
    That's it for me with Mayweather.
    I don't really care for dude outside of his skills in the ring. I've heard him say some stupid ? over the years, but then look at his father and I can't blame him. He's great at what his dad taught him and that's where I'm ranking dude.
    He's one of the best ever and arguably the absolute best ever, but in my opinion he's not the best although he's the best today.
  • its....JOHN B
    its....JOHN B Members Posts: 19,830 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So ? , Billy and Kid only knocked out less than 50% of their opponents? Who the ? are these people
  • luke1733
    luke1733 Members Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2014
    They're Some really old boxers. They fought like a hundred fights too and only knocked out like 20% of their opponents. Dude's ain't got no brains left. I had to include them because I just went for the first 30 people that appeared on wikipedia's Hall of Fame Boxers and their names appeared. I also included the other more current boxers I knew of and figured it was fair to get somewhat an estimate of what Hall of Fame boxers did on the average when it came to KO their opponents. Plenty of them dude's I ain't never heard of
  • aneed123
    aneed123 Members Posts: 23,763 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Floyd koed guys from 130-140 pound's. He moved up in weight and his power suffered
  • Say What
    Say What Members Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't think anyone can successfully argue he's the best but I accept him for what he is. He's a point fighter. Defense is great and he is very technical but I don't think he looks for a ko because of the risk involved.
  • D. Morgan
    D. Morgan Members Posts: 11,662 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So you all expect a fighter with known very brittle hands who moved up from 130 lbs to still be KOing people and have a higher KO percentage yet he is now fighting at 147 &154 lbs. Against guys like Maidana who in the 1st fight came in the ring at 165 lbs for a fight at 147. Got it that ? makes a lot of sense. I am huge Floyd fan and he is very far from being the greatest. Greatest of his era you can say that only other people really in the discussion is B-Hop and Manny.
  • MarcusGarvey
    MarcusGarvey Members Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wish he threw more combinations.
    In his prime, and I think he's on the other side of it, Floyd's defense was impregnable. One of the greats.
  • LUClEN
    LUClEN Members Posts: 20,559 ✭✭✭✭✭
    He's not Alexander
  • luke1733
    luke1733 Members Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2014
    Basically agree with all y'all. Guess Mayweather sees his power not effecting heavier guys also. I just saw today where he just hired Pacquiao's conditioning man, the one responsible for Pac-Man's steroid punch (I mean power punch). Alex Ariza is the man he hired to try to improve his power. Basically, if you don't KO people, people have a hard time wanting to pay for your fights and fight sales will go down, unless you substitute KO's with a bunch of flurries/combinations. PPV and Japan already mentioning how this last fight didn't get the numbers they thought and they just straight up blamed it on the fact that fans want a KO; they're tired of seeing him pick and pop. Again, I don't think Mayweather has nothing to prove; he's already proven it --and it's a good point that he's moved up in weight class and basically doing what any smaller man would and should do when fighting a bigger opponent --and that is stick and move and fight on the inside to take away reach. It's too late in his career to expect much improvement on perfection already, but I just figured I'd get at him since he's no longer doing flurries and his punches have power but ain't hurting noone. I'd love to hear what other boxers who fought him have to say about the power or quickness of his punches like they do with some other boxers.
  • luke1733
    luke1733 Members Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2014
    Well, here's what the other say about Mayweather vs Pacquiao. It's some solid ? put together but eh I'll let y'all see it if you want.

  • playboy buddy rose
    playboy buddy rose Members Posts: 2,844 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i think his history of bad hands plays into consideration his ko percentage.... earlier in his career he had legitimate ko power
  • sdotcarter111
    sdotcarter111 Members Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2014
    When he fought Maidana the first time, about halfway through the fight he'd completely timed him and was sticking him basically at will. It felt like he could have stole on him for a KO or stoppage if he wanted to....and he just didn't want to. Dude was popping him wherever he wanted, whenever he wanted, but refused to throw more than 2 in a row. Even though Maidana at that point was almost scared to throw a punch in return because of the counters and had that confused ass look on his face that all Floyd opponents get.

    That was when I decided I can't ? with Floyd as much as I would like to. One of the best ever, maybe the best technical fighter of all time. But personally, I like fighters who are tryin to hurt their opponent, and that's not what Floyd wants. I don't buy the weight class or bad hands stuff, because Floyd's inability to KO people is at least as much voluntary as it is a product of his physicality. He don't even try to stop you. Its not on his radar. Floyd don't even commit fully to his punches. He's pulling them joints even as they're landing. He's a points fighter....the Georges St. Pierre of boxing. And its all good. I don't respect him any less for it and recognize him as an all-time great. His boxing is beautiful to watch.

    But its not exciting (to me). We all know exactly how a Floyd fight is gonna go every time he steps in the ring. There's no suspense at all. He's going to be better than you by a mile, and you'll leave the fight straight enough to go hoop at the gym for an hour and then hit Fatburger. Maybe do some late night sparring. Hit the club and two-step until its time for the diner. Get some ? then go to sleep.

    You be all good, like you wasn't even just in a title fight. Something about that I can't ? with. Funny is back in the day Floyd would steal on ? all day. Guess since he's older he's maybe less confident in his power, or too close to retiring perfect to risk it. Or maybe both.
  • thephantasm
    thephantasm Members Posts: 565 ✭✭✭
    i heard maywr was strong in real life...

    hes cleaner than manny but paq has that intensity

    cardio always beats strength
  • S2J
    S2J Members Posts: 28,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2014
    i heard maywr was strong in real life...

    hes cleaner than manny but paq has that intensity

    cardio always beats strength

    Umm, No. Mike Tyson got by off pure strength.

    Manny could very well knock Floyd out. Seeign the hits he took vs Cotto and vs Maidana are proof of this.

  • S2J
    S2J Members Posts: 28,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    But HE'S RIGHT!

    If Floyd retires undefeated, history will NOT remember him for ducking Manny Pacquiao. Manny Pacquiao---especially after those 2 L's---will be a footnote in history.

    Floyd will be remembered for being undefeated, aging gracefully, the money, best defenssive fighter ever, never getting knocked down, etc.

    vs. people online syain 'he's scared of ONE man?!?! Who's been beat himself?!!? Who cares!! No, i wouldnt fight Pacquiao either.
  • _Goldie_
    _Goldie_ Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 30,349 Regulator
    edited September 2014
    He knocked out more than half of his opponents. He came in the game as a knock out puncher with the over hand right and left hook. All of his fights are on youtube, check out his first 20 fighst, almost all of them were knock outs within the first couple rounds. He used to be a "fighter" but Roger's aim was for him to be a "boxer" so his style changed or "improved" throughout the years to where he's ultimately at now as a defensive fighter. Big reason to why he's in his late 30s and his performance doesnt show it.
  • _Lefty
    _Lefty Members Posts: 6,564 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2014
    Laymans history will remember 49-0. His peers will remember cherry picking. And most important, Floyd will remember cherry picking, money ain't everything. Pun intended.
  • Bcotton5
    Bcotton5 Members Posts: 51,851 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Dupac
    Dupac Members, Writer Posts: 68,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
    aneed123 wrote: »
    Floyd koed guys from 130-140 pound's. He moved up in weight and his power suffered

  • Dupac
    Dupac Members, Writer Posts: 68,365 ✭✭✭✭✭
    _Lefty wrote: »
    Laymans history will remember 49-0. His peers will remember cherry picking. And most important, Floyd will remember cherry picking, money ain't everything. Pun intended.

    negative, his peers will remember how boxing politics with selfish promoters destroyed some great fights, they all played a part in it...... he just catches the most heat for it

    one day fighters will apologize to floyd for it, you can count on that
  • The Lonious Monk
    The Lonious Monk Members Posts: 26,258 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't really know how much you can use KO rate to evaluate Mayweather's skill. His style relies more on outboxing his opponent than trying to finish them off. He doesn't KO people a lot because that's not really what he goes for. He plays it safe. KO specialists aren't really the safest of boxers because throwing heavy punches is more risky than keeping an inferior opponent at bay with defense, jabs, and counters.

    I disagree when OP says Mayweather is better than RJJ at inviting attacks and then countering with power shots. Roy would basically put his hands down and let his opponent attempt whole combos and still take them out before they could hit him. Floyd ain't quite that smooth.
  • StoneColdMikey
    StoneColdMikey Members, Moderators Posts: 33,543 Regulator
    hope he gets to 50-0
  • S2J
    S2J Members Posts: 28,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    _Lefty wrote: »
    Laymans history will remember 49-0. His peers will remember cherry picking. And most important, Floyd will remember cherry picking, money ain't everything. Pun intended.

    History IS laymans Lol In the sense that the people old enough to see it get old, and details get forgotten

    I.e. history will not remember that Tim Duncan and KG were once equals or that KG could have been better at 1 point. They remember the numbers. Duncan 5 rings> KG's 1

    History is ALREADY forgetting Kobe rode Shaq to them 3 titles. You damn near dont even hear about that anymore. All that matters is he got his 5 rings.