Obama ready to sign Russia sanctions bill that will ALSO give weapons and ammo to Ukraine's govt

kingblaze84
kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
Ah ? , wtf has America done......America just escalated beef with Russia

http://news.yahoo.com/congress-presses-obama-russia-sanctions-072545283--politics.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama will sign legislation slapping new sanctions on Russia and providing weapons and other aid to Ukraine despite White House concerns that military assistance will further escalate the conflict, the White House said Tuesday.

White House spokesman Josh Earnest said Obama continues to have misgivings about the bill, which cleared Congress with overwhelming support, but believes the legislation still gives him the flexibility he needs.

"The bite on the Russian economy is only becoming stronger," Earnest said.

Word that Obama would sign the measure comes as Russia grapples with a currency crisis driven both by the impact of previous sanctions and a drop in the price of oil.

Republicans and Democrats, including House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, had called on Obama to sign the measure immediately.

The bill would require the president to impose penalties on state-owned arms dealer Rosoboronexport and other Russian defense companies tied to unrest in Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia and Syria. The sanctions would be extended to individuals and entities that help the companies.

Comments

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Does America REALLY want to escalate a beef with ? RUSSIA, a nuclear armed nation that has plenty of planes who have crossed close to American airspace?? A Russian govt official said just last week if America sends weapons and ammo to Ukraine's govt, it would be crossing a red line. Is this a good idea???
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Russia is a dying society any ? way . Their importance in the world has been dropping for a long time and will continue to drop and with America
    Set to become a major energy exporter ? will only get worse for them.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭

    He has not posted on the forum for a while now
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2014
    zombie wrote: »
    Russia is a dying society any ? way . Their importance in the world has been dropping for a long time and will continue to drop and with America
    Set to become a major energy exporter ? will only get worse for them.

    Yeah but their nuclear weapons aren't dying. Neither is their aircraft, they're still penetrating Europe and have come close to American water and airspace many times. I don't see anything smart about poking the Russian bear, Al-Qaeda is growing in strength and it's suddenly smart to escalate beef with yet another nation??
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    Russia is a dying society any ? way . Their importance in the world has been dropping for a long time and will continue to drop and with America
    Set to become a major energy exporter ? will only get worse for them.

    Yeah but their nuclear weapons aren't dying. Neither is their aircraft, they're still penetrating Europe and have come close to American water and airspace many times. I don't see anything smart about poking the Russian bear, Al-Qaeda is growing in strength and it's suddenly smart to escalate beef with yet another nation??

    They are not going to use those weapons . Russia will bully the nations around them somewhat and that's it all the other petty ? they do they have always done since the cold war.

    Russia would be a far more threatening nation if it fixed it's economy and stopped the ?
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2014
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Russia is a dying society any ? way . Their importance in the world has been dropping for a long time and will continue to drop and with America
    Set to become a major energy exporter ? will only get worse for them.

    Yeah but their nuclear weapons aren't dying. Neither is their aircraft, they're still penetrating Europe and have come close to American water and airspace many times. I don't see anything smart about poking the Russian bear, Al-Qaeda is growing in strength and it's suddenly smart to escalate beef with yet another nation??

    They are not going to use those weapons . Russia will bully the nations around them somewhat and that's it all the other petty ? they do they have always done since the cold war.

    Russia would be a far more threatening nation if it fixed it's economy and stopped the ?

    So Russian planes that can BYPASS radar is not threatening to you? Russian nuclear submarines that can hide in NATO waters for days undetected isn't threatening to you?
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Russia is a dying society any ? way . Their importance in the world has been dropping for a long time and will continue to drop and with America
    Set to become a major energy exporter ? will only get worse for them.

    Yeah but their nuclear weapons aren't dying. Neither is their aircraft, they're still penetrating Europe and have come close to American water and airspace many times. I don't see anything smart about poking the Russian bear, Al-Qaeda is growing in strength and it's suddenly smart to escalate beef with yet another nation??

    They are not going to use those weapons . Russia will bully the nations around them somewhat and that's it all the other petty ? they do they have always done since the cold war.

    Russia would be a far more threatening nation if it fixed it's economy and stopped the ?

    So Russian planes that can BYPASS radar is not threatening to you? Russian nuclear submarines that can hide in NATO waters for days undetected isn't threatening to you?

    They used to do ? like that all the ? Time in the cold war. They did nothing then when they were much stronger they won't do ? now. Are they a threat?? Yes but not what they used to be by a long shot. They won't do a thing unless we seriously violate them. In other words it's just huffing and puffing.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    By the way a strong aggressive Russia would be good for our military industrial complex. It Will justify the building of more weapons manufacturing
  • reapin505
    reapin505 Members Posts: 4,009 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "In winter, never invade Russia"
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2014
    reapin505 wrote: »
    "In winter, never invade Russia"

    Very true, I wonder if American politicians remember what Napoleon and ? went through. Beefing and trying to indirectly ? Russian troops with American weapons is an escalation I really don't want to see. This is going to be a big mistake I think, especially if Putin starts feeling desperate. His nation is already in recession and people might get restless if he doesn't fight back.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Russia is a dying society any ? way . Their importance in the world has been dropping for a long time and will continue to drop and with America
    Set to become a major energy exporter ? will only get worse for them.

    Yeah but their nuclear weapons aren't dying. Neither is their aircraft, they're still penetrating Europe and have come close to American water and airspace many times. I don't see anything smart about poking the Russian bear, Al-Qaeda is growing in strength and it's suddenly smart to escalate beef with yet another nation??

    They are not going to use those weapons . Russia will bully the nations around them somewhat and that's it all the other petty ? they do they have always done since the cold war.

    Russia would be a far more threatening nation if it fixed it's economy and stopped the ?

    So Russian planes that can BYPASS radar is not threatening to you? Russian nuclear submarines that can hide in NATO waters for days undetected isn't threatening to you?

    They used to do ? like that all the ? Time in the cold war. They did nothing then when they were much stronger they won't do ? now. Are they a threat?? Yes but not what they used to be by a long shot. They won't do a thing unless we seriously violate them. In other words it's just huffing and puffing.

    Well if Ukraine starts killing a whole lot of Russian troops, Putin, who is already desperate, might act like a cornered fox and attack. Not saying he will but IDK if this is a route we really want to walk on.
  • reapin505
    reapin505 Members Posts: 4,009 ✭✭✭✭✭
    reapin505 wrote: »
    "In winter, never invade Russia"

    Very true, I wonder if American politicians remember what Napoleon and ? went through. Beefing and trying to indirectly ? Russian troops with American weapons is an escalation I really don't want to see. This is going to be a big mistake I think, especially if Putin starts feeling desperate. His nation is already in recession and people might get restless if he doesn't fight back.

    If the world ain't too ? up after it would be an interesting history lesson to learn about the the war between the US and Russia. Whoever would win is gonna either come out stronger or have a mess to clean up if ? gets to that point.
  • zombie
    zombie Members Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Russia is a dying society any ? way . Their importance in the world has been dropping for a long time and will continue to drop and with America
    Set to become a major energy exporter ? will only get worse for them.

    Yeah but their nuclear weapons aren't dying. Neither is their aircraft, they're still penetrating Europe and have come close to American water and airspace many times. I don't see anything smart about poking the Russian bear, Al-Qaeda is growing in strength and it's suddenly smart to escalate beef with yet another nation??

    They are not going to use those weapons . Russia will bully the nations around them somewhat and that's it all the other petty ? they do they have always done since the cold war.

    Russia would be a far more threatening nation if it fixed it's economy and stopped the ?

    So Russian planes that can BYPASS radar is not threatening to you? Russian nuclear submarines that can hide in NATO waters for days undetected isn't threatening to you?

    They used to do ? like that all the ? Time in the cold war. They did nothing then when they were much stronger they won't do ? now. Are they a threat?? Yes but not what they used to be by a long shot. They won't do a thing unless we seriously violate them. In other words it's just huffing and puffing.

    Well if Ukraine starts killing a whole lot of Russian troops, Putin, who is already desperate, might act like a cornered fox and attack. Not saying he will but IDK if this is a route we really want to walk on.

    During the cold war we gave lots of weapons and support to the afghans when they were fighting Russia and many russins died they did not attack us then. At worse I see Ukraine turning into a proxy war. History is just repeating itself.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Russia is a dying society any ? way . Their importance in the world has been dropping for a long time and will continue to drop and with America
    Set to become a major energy exporter ? will only get worse for them.

    Yeah but their nuclear weapons aren't dying. Neither is their aircraft, they're still penetrating Europe and have come close to American water and airspace many times. I don't see anything smart about poking the Russian bear, Al-Qaeda is growing in strength and it's suddenly smart to escalate beef with yet another nation??

    They are not going to use those weapons . Russia will bully the nations around them somewhat and that's it all the other petty ? they do they have always done since the cold war.

    Russia would be a far more threatening nation if it fixed it's economy and stopped the ?

    So Russian planes that can BYPASS radar is not threatening to you? Russian nuclear submarines that can hide in NATO waters for days undetected isn't threatening to you?

    They used to do ? like that all the ? Time in the cold war. They did nothing then when they were much stronger they won't do ? now. Are they a threat?? Yes but not what they used to be by a long shot. They won't do a thing unless we seriously violate them. In other words it's just huffing and puffing.

    Well if Ukraine starts killing a whole lot of Russian troops, Putin, who is already desperate, might act like a cornered fox and attack. Not saying he will but IDK if this is a route we really want to walk on.

    During the cold war we gave lots of weapons and support to the afghans when they were fighting Russia and many russins died they did not attack us then. At worse I see Ukraine turning into a proxy war. History is just repeating itself.

    I hear that but things are a little different now because Russia's economy is collapsing and Putin seems a different breed then the Soviet Union president of the 80s, forgot his name. And if Russia starts to enter a depression, there's no telling what Putin and his leadership will do to keep their power. Japan reacted by you know how in 1941 after America put tough sanctions on it after the China invasion, but hopefully America knows what Putin is and isn't capable of....

  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Does America REALLY want to escalate a beef with ? RUSSIA, a nuclear armed nation that has plenty of planes who have crossed close to American airspace?? A Russian govt official said just last week if America sends weapons and ammo to Ukraine's govt, it would be crossing a red line. Is this a good idea???
    please, let's not use the DoUwant2go2Heaven arguments here. are we expecting a nuclear exchange for real?

    plus, would you EVER consider that argument legitimate in reverse? "why would anyone want to escalate a beef with the ? UNITED STATES, a nuclear-armed nation that has plenty of planes that have crossed close to County X's airspace??"

    seriously now
    I don't see anything smart about poking the Russian bear, Al-Qaeda is growing in strength and it's suddenly smart to escalate beef with yet another nation??
    "i don't see anything smart about poking the American, uh, eagle, [local terrorists that Country X has a problem with] are theoretically growing in strength and it's suddenly smart to escalate beef with yet another nation?"
    So Russian planes that can BYPASS radar is not threatening to you? Russian nuclear submarines that can hide in NATO waters for days undetected isn't threatening to you?
    "so American planes that can BYPASS radar is not threatening to you? American submarines that can hide in NATO waters for days undetected isn't threatening to you?"

    also, if you're referring to the recent submarine incident in Sweden, a little-known fact is that Sweden is not a member of NATO

  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What kind of logic that you are using. We shouldn't do what's reasonable and within our legal relax just because they have nukes. You can't let fear run your life
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    What kind of logic that you are using. We shouldn't do what's reasonable and within our legal relax just because they have nukes. You can't let fear run your life

    I just think America has enough problems dealing with Al-Qaeda, ISIS, and a huge debt that's the largest in world history. I would prefer Europe take care of this situation, it's not like Europe is bailing America out of its own problems.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    janklow wrote: »
    Does America REALLY want to escalate a beef with ? RUSSIA, a nuclear armed nation that has plenty of planes who have crossed close to American airspace?? A Russian govt official said just last week if America sends weapons and ammo to Ukraine's govt, it would be crossing a red line. Is this a good idea???
    please, let's not use the DoUwant2go2Heaven arguments here. are we expecting a nuclear exchange for real?

    plus, would you EVER consider that argument legitimate in reverse? "why would anyone want to escalate a beef with the ? UNITED STATES, a nuclear-armed nation that has plenty of planes that have crossed close to County X's airspace??"

    seriously now
    I don't see anything smart about poking the Russian bear, Al-Qaeda is growing in strength and it's suddenly smart to escalate beef with yet another nation??
    "i don't see anything smart about poking the American, uh, eagle, [local terrorists that Country X has a problem with] are theoretically growing in strength and it's suddenly smart to escalate beef with yet another nation?"
    So Russian planes that can BYPASS radar is not threatening to you? Russian nuclear submarines that can hide in NATO waters for days undetected isn't threatening to you?
    "so American planes that can BYPASS radar is not threatening to you? American submarines that can hide in NATO waters for days undetected isn't threatening to you?"

    also, if you're referring to the recent submarine incident in Sweden, a little-known fact is that Sweden is not a member of NATO

    No I don't expect a nuclear exchange and yes I'm sure Russia has a healthy fear of American military power as well, I understand your points. I just hope things don't escalate any further, considering all the losing efforts America is in the Middle East. The next few days will be interesting....
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    No I don't expect a nuclear exchange and yes I'm sure Russia has a healthy fear of American military power as well, I understand your points. I just hope things don't escalate any further, considering all the losing efforts America is in the Middle East. The next few days will be interesting....
    well, one thing i will concede is that the US does love to try and do every damn thing everywhere. it's honestly been legitimately more effective to just let the economy ? with Russia.

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2014
    janklow wrote: »
    No I don't expect a nuclear exchange and yes I'm sure Russia has a healthy fear of American military power as well, I understand your points. I just hope things don't escalate any further, considering all the losing efforts America is in the Middle East. The next few days will be interesting....
    well, one thing i will concede is that the US does love to try and do every damn thing everywhere. it's honestly been legitimately more effective to just let the economy ? with Russia.

    Yeah, but I was watching CBS news tonight and it said Putin still has an 80% approval rating in Russia. That's amazing considering what's going on over there. Either way, I wonder what Russia's next move will be if Obama authorizes the weapons to Ukraine's govt. That's gonna create a lot of dead Russian soldiers, assuming this bill goes all the way.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Yeah, but I was watching CBS news tonight and it said Putin still has an 80% approval rating in Russia. That's amazing considering what's going on over there. Either way, I wonder what Russia's next move will be if Obama authorizes the weapons to Ukraine's govt. That's gonna create a lot of dead Russian soldiers, assuming this bill goes all the way.
    well, it's not like the government doesn't flog a little propaganda to keep that approval rating high. but we'll see where it goes.