Kanye Babies - The World After 808's

achewon87

Interesting article, long read...

If it weren’t for FWMJ aka Rappers I Know (RIK) aka Frank aka The Chief Hater’s Facebook post, I would have never stumbled across this Lil Uzi Vert's Hot 97 interview. I’ve watched Travis Scott before deride older artists asking “if they were ever really good,” and am used to the apathy of the modern rapper who insists that he doesn’t care anything about rapping, but this Lil Uzi Vert interview was golden.

As Hot 97 DJ Ebro cues up what Premier considers one of his greatest beats, “Mass Appeal,” Lil Uzi Vert catches wind and has an utter look of disgust.

“Oh, he making me rap on that?!?” Vert exclaims.

“I’m too young…I’m not into that.”

Ebro tries to coax him into it, “It’s just drums.”

“and nothing else.” Vert quickly retorts.

Mention of 808 & Heartbreaks, however, makes the Lil Uzi light up.

“Changed my life.”

Kanye West’s meteoric rise from hit producer to underdog rapper to superstar is a story that’s been told again and again…often times by Kanye West. His story starts back in 1999 and continues up until present day. People never know what to expect musically from Kanye, but character-wise, it’s pretty damn clear that he will always do something over the top.

Sadly, it’s those antics that stop people from recognizing Kanye West for what he his — one of, if not THE most influential producer of the last 16 years.

A look at Kanye’s path will bring us through the pitch-heavy samples of the mid 2000s, through the Auto Tune/808 sound that’s prevalent today, up to where he is now — an experimental curator of sounds that continues to change how people view rap music. Doing that, will bring us up to modern times.

I have to be 100% honest, when Kanye began his ascent from Chicago backpacked producer to the most promising up and coming rapper, I wasn’t paying any attention.

Honestly, I wasn’t paying attention to rap at all. Yes, I knew about Pharrell & the Neptunes’ songs. Yes, I knew about Timbaland and all of his productions but outside of them…and, to be frank, I never really looked at them as Hip-Hip producers (which isn’t an insult). I always looked at them in the same vein as say a Quincy Jones or someone. Other than that, whatever Hip-Hop I got, it came from Hot 97 (the old relevant Hot 97, not the joke that it is now).

The spirit of Hip-Hop was not in rap music. So I went looking for that spirit abroad and found it in Drum-N-Bass…not just the instrumental music but the mixes that had MCs on them. The tracks were often played like breaks with the MC adjusting to the selection. I took weekly trips to Breakbeat Science looking for the latest Andy C mix— hopefully with Skibadee “rinsing out” over the tracks.

That led to (UK) garage and the group that really had me getting that Wu-vibe, So Solid Crew, a crew that claimed between 19 to 30 members. Unlike the rap that Skibadee or Hyper D would do over Drum-N-Bass, a fast, chant-like flow, So Solid was closer to what an American would classify as rap.

But it wasn’t enough.

When Brit press went bananas about Dizzee Rascal, I jumped to check it out. “I Luv U” was the cut. A tad bit impressed, I decided to research the scene that he came out of. The name of his mentor, Wiley, was all it took. And that yielded the motherlode — Grime.

Long before Judge Kimba Wood put a cease and desist order down, there once was a peer to peer site that allowed you to do the impossible. While often it was used as a site to download music that could be legally bought at your local Tower Records or HMV, the site also allowed you to have a hold of mixes recorded off pirate radio in other countries, not to mention, single songs that never made it stateside. This is how I got into “Tings in Boots,” and “Oi” and “Boys Love Girls.” Many of the tracks were bare bone and recorded with a PC program that many o’ producer acquired via the same peer to peer site mentioned above. That program was Fruity Loops 3. Wherein our story comes back stateside. But we’ll get back to Fruity Loops in a second.

achewon87

"The Old Kanye” was for my generation. That’s the “chop up a beat Kanye.” The one that required beat machines and a knowledge of records; the so-called Chipmunk Soul Kanye.

Kanye West rode unto the scene proclaiming himself a “backpacker” which was code for Hip-Hop nerds who loved rap in all of it’s purity (I think we lump such people in the disparaging category of “lyrical miracle” lovers now…not sure).

And I wasn’t on board for those first two albums. His raps were so simplistic to me and flow so predictable. But the rap intelligensia sang his praises for his use of soulful samples — whether that was pitching Chaka up +7 on “Through the Wire,” or chopping up all parts of “I Got a Woman” for “Gold Digger,” everyone had saddled up on Kanye’s privates. I bought the albums, listened a couple of times, picked the few songs I liked, and moved on.

I finally came around to the West bandwagon with the Daft Punk sampled, “Stronger.” The first single, “You Can’t Tell Me Nothing,” was MOS (more of the same)…at least I thought so at first. But when the album, Graduation, dropped, I even signed on for that.

I was impressed with the entire album. From the Takashi Murakami album cover to the fact that he was able to get the finicky Steely Dan, one of my favorite 70s bands, to allow him use of “Kid Charlemagne,” even his rap flow seemed to have improved, I became a fan. I revisited the other albums (with the same, original results).

I eagerly awaited Kanye’s next release. Boy was I thrown for a loop.

When one of the founders of House, Jesse Saunders, made “On and On,” it became an instant hit. But what many say was it’s greatest quality was the fact that it was inspiring — and not because it was an excellent song — quite the contrary. “On and On” was considered inspiring because of it’s simplicity. When young Chicago producers heard the song, many of them thought, “I can do THAT…and better.”

No one would have ever thought that about Thom Yorke’s Eraser. Released in 2006, Thom Yorke tapped into his love for Warp Recordings and went all the way electronica in a way that he only attempted with Radiohead’s Kid A.

Kanye loved this album. He loved it so much so that he hopped on the title cut for “Us Placers” on his Can’t Tell Me Nothing mixtape.

I’ve always believed that Kanye wore his influences on his sleeve as big as that heart he started wearing in 2008 leading up to the release of 808s and Heartbreaks.

This was no exception. My first impression of “Love Lockdown” was, “this is an awful impersonation of Thom Yorke,” a comment I reiterated whenever someone asked my opinion about the song.

Of course, I had no proof that Kanye was influenced by The Eraser until the November 2008 Fader cover story where Mr. West says that “Love Lockdown” is just a great accomplishment in the idea of, like, Thom Yorke in the strip club.”

Then I heard the album. I was underwhelmed. I had finally signed on for the rapping Kanye, finally appreciated his sampling, and here was this auto-tuned, incredibly simplistic album.

They’re like, “It sounds like he wrote this in five minutes,” and I’m like, You’re right, it took me five minutes! Is something better if it took five years than if it took five minutes? Kanye West

I appreciated his fearlessness and the fact that, above all else, Kanye is an artist, but I did what Kanye would have wanted — I held 808 next to Eraser — I didn’t put him in the rap category for my judgement of the album — and concluded that it was ga’bage.

But the album wasn’t for me. (My first lesson in redeeming myself from hate) This album was for a generation of kids that I didn’t know — they were still in middle and high school.

This album is a complete new idea, some whole different ? that’s gonna change music again. Kanye West

A year later, Kanye’s protégé and collaborator on 4 of 808's songs, Kid Cudi, dropped Man On The Moon which he says, “wouldn’t exist on a major label without the success of a left-of-center hit like 808s.” That album solidified the new world of rap that Kanye ushered in and the technology ain’t hurt either.

Stevie Wonder had his Talk Box designed by Malcolm Cecil and Robert Margouleff. His skill with playing the harmonica helped. It’s said that Roger Troutman’s desire to use the Talk Box came watching Wonder dazzle the kids of Sesame Street. He popularized it with “More Bounce to the Ounce.” Herbie Hancock even dabbled in the Vocoder using the Sennheiser Vocoder VSM 201 in 1979. All of them needed to put that tube in their mouth and “play” their voice on a keyboard. Plus you had the whole fainting, losing teeth, stomach virus thing. Not the most convenient set-up.

achewon87

Enter — Andy Hildebrand.

Hildebrand, a retired oil engineer turned software developer, and others were at a National Association of Music Merchants (NAMM) conference in 1995 when it was suggested to him that he make an invention that would allow for a person to sing on key. He didn’t pay much attention to the suggestion at first but eventually it hit him — a pitch correction software. Nothing like it existed.

Hildebrand succeeded in solving the mathematical problems necessary for the software to work and in early 1996 Auto-Tune was born. He took the software to the 1996 NAMM conference and people were “grabbing it out” of Hildebrand’s hands. Soon after, he employed a sales team and sold Auto-Tune to studios all over Los Angeles — their little secret. And it remained that way for three years until producer Mark Taylor wanted to try something different.

Usually producers took the subtle approach with Auto-Tune, cleaning up a missed note here or an off-key moment there. But Mark Taylor wanted to experiment when he recorded Cher’s “Believe.” Instead of working to improve her vocals, he decided to go full robotic on them and it turned out to be the icing on the cake for the uptempo (132 bpm) dance track. “Believe” sold 11 million copies and people went crazy trying to find the “Cher Effect.”

Faheem Najm was 14 at the time and not checking for Cher, I’m sure. It was later on when he saw one of those record compilation commercials that used to come on at every damn commercial break during video shows, that he began checking for the “Cher Effect.” His introduction to it was a Jennifer Lopez song, “If You Had my Love” (the Darkchild remix) and Najm had this revelation as he was seeking to move from being a Tallahassee, Florida rapper to something less common…a singer. This effect would be his advantage.

So it was like a two-year search for Auto-Tune. Nobody knew what it was. I had no idea what the name of it was. So I just went searching for it. I went to all my hackers, you know, got it for free. Just went everywhere. Just murdered the whole scene of buying stuff. I finally sat down for a whole day, went through every effect that I had on my computer and I lucked up on it. And I got so excited, I jumped around the room for a second. And, oh man, that was the end of that. By that time, I already knew how it worked. And, you know, I just went right to it and got right to it. But I didn’t know the name of it. I just kept seeing it and — oh, it was such a — it was a task. It was an ordeal. T-Pain

Najm became known as T-Pain and took his use of Auto-Tune to the bank by first remixing a popular Akon song, “Locked Up,” turning it into “? Up.” This got Akon’s attention and he immediately signed T-Pain who dropped “Sprung” and “I’m N Luv” back to back. Over the next few years T-Pain was as ubiquitous as the 808 kick and Auto-Tune became just as ever-present, even finding it’s way (sadly) into Dancehall.

Kanye, of course, appreciated T-Pain’s use of Auto-Tune and it was his weapon of choice on 808 and Heartbreaks. Cudi also employed it on his debut but to a lesser degree.

I also used Auto‑Tune, just to keep Cudi on pitch. Cudi sings a lot on the tracks we do, and he’s a great singer, certainly a lot better than many other rappers that try to sing. I used Auto‑Tune in moderation… …I’ve blanked out ‘B’ and ‘C#’, because he doesn’t sing these notes. Even if you use it very subtly, Auto‑Tune still has a sound, with that slight robotic vocoder‑like effect. Dot Da Genius

Kanye proved that you didn’t have to be a great singer, could make songs quickly, could talk about your emotions, didn’t need to sample, etc. Kid Cudi proved that it could be successful, Auto-Tunes could be found for the cheap and remember Fruity Loops…that was about to get the attention of every young, wanna-be producer and the Kanye Babies were about to be born.

ixteen is an influential age. It Takes a Nation of Millions came out when I was sixteen and started my revolutionary thinking and Straight Out The Jungle also came out when I was sixteen which solidified my Afrocentric leanings.

That was the age of Travis Scott and Young Thug when 808 & Heartbreaks dropped; Rich Homie Quan and The Weeknd were 19 and 18 respectively, and the baby of the bunch, Lil Uzi Vert was 14. Drake was a grand dad at 22 when he and 40 put out So Far Gone which also recalled 808. “The last CD I listened to was 808s & Heartbreak before I started doing So Far Gone,” stated 40, Drake’s long-time producer.

The first time I heard “Bring the Noise” making a beat was the furthest thing from my mind. I never even wrapped my brain around it. Jungle Brother’s “What’s Going On” may have sounded 85% more lo-fi and I was able to discern where the beats were from, but again, I didn’t know the SP12 from a 12 speed bicycle.

But if you were coming of age in the year 2008, heard 808 & Heartbreaks, and believed that you could make something similar, you would have already seen a seventeen year old from Atlanta take the world by storm a year earlier with a song that he produced on a software-based program, Fruity Loops. That seventeen year old was Soulja Boy.

No disrespect to 9th Wonder, who may have been the first industry producer to endorse FL Studios (the new name for Fruity Loops), but he wasn’t a flamboyant young man that produced and rapped over an infectious tune that had a video with over 27 million views in a year. White critics would even consider “Crank That” a hit as it sat at number one on the Billboard Hot 100 for seven weeks.

There’s an October 2014 Fader Magazine article, “13 Things All Fruity Loops Producers Know To Be True,” that goes in great detail about the influence of FL Studies. Click on that hyper-link to read the informative and entertaining article.

While the program was initially maligned, FL Studios has gone on to become the entry-way into production for many producers, several of which, have become incredibly influential. What’s also different is that now not only are its adherents unashamed to admit using the software, people like Metro Boomin’ and Hit Boy are unapologetic about their entry into making hits by using the program formerly known as Fruity Loops — which has been a liberating force for many start-up beatmakers. (And you’d be surprised at all the songs that were made with FL Studios — “Amen” and “Hot ? ” — are just two)

calling someone a “rapper” is almost a pejorative in 2016. The days of the hyper-masculine, ghetto-praising, alpha-male rap is now conspicuously considered dated — a style that has waned as New York rap has struggled to find its way back to prominence.

It’s common knowledge that when Kanye West entered the game, a lot of the Hip-Hop elite at the time took him for a joke. The media made it a point to talk about him as if he were counter-programming to the “common” rapper. And Kanye has never strayed away from the fact that he has no desire to be the average rapper.

In interview after interview, Mr. West emphasizes that he wants to be as large as Michael Jackson, that he wants his music heard everywhere, that he wants to be respected as a tastemaker.

achewon87

The clear break from rap-proper to that of singer/rapper/rock star was 808s & Heartbreaks and that is what resonated with the younger audience that would be the sound of the 2010s. Like Kid Cudi, one of the original Kanye disciples, Travis Scott found his voice in 808s.

I skipped College Dropout and Late Registration and went straight to 808s & Heartbreak, I’m just going right in. That’s where my brain is. Travis Scott

Scott also has taken on West’s stance on rap where in one interview he famously said, “I don’t consider myself hip-hop. I don’t want you to put me up next to ? cause some of them ? are just like, straight corny.” (He’s actually said that enough that providing a link would be pointless — I’m sure he’s tired of saying it.) Travis Scott wants to be known as an artist.

Being a rapper (or rather, being known as one) is no longer favorable among many new artists. Lil Uzi Vert also does not want to be known as one. He constantly refers to himself and what he wants to be known as a “rock star,” and musing about how Marilyn Manson is a great example.

Even everyone’s favorite artist, Future, perhaps one of the most well-known users of Auto-Tune, steers away from the label.

My music’s further away from rap now than it’s ever been, but rap is my home. I’m comfortable in my own skin and I’m comfortable with doing the music that I’m doing. Future

Kanye West seemingly has had the last laugh. Rap as I knew it, and loved it no longer exists. That world was a place where entry into Hip-Hop seemed insurmountable; where one had to KNOW certain breaks to consider themselves a DJ, and being a rapper meant having a certain presence, voice, and ability to control a crowd. A post 808 world is a world that PM Dawn, Arrested Development, and Bones, Thugs, & Harmony ushered in but those are old, mythical names to the youth. They only know Kanye.

It is a world where there’s one degree of influence. That is the world that 808s and FL Studios has wrought, a world where anyone feels they can make rap. Technology and the 808 aesthetic supports that feeling.

But those are just labels. As long as there has been rap, there has been singing ( see: most early 80s routines and battles.) and long before we labeled the music, it was just what we did. It was when rap became an industry that it had to be named and defined.

So maybe the Kanye babies are on to something…what do you think?

https://medium.com/@sdq0218/kanye-babies-b6a3a5286c22#.lr6kyv5bk

illestni99ainne

Wtf at him lumping pm dawn in together with bone. Disrespectful

StillFaggyAF

It's clear most of the new generation was influenced by Kanye

Lab Baby

My only issue with the "Kanye babies" is that they lack the respect that Kanye has when acknowledging his ancestors. Ye's influences span from Michael Jackson to Tribe to Jay to even some of these new cats, and he boasts that proudly. That's damn near 50 years of music. These new dudes would call something wack if it came out 10 years ago and doesn't have an 808 drum to it. Their palette is stuck on the last 5 years, which has been a vicious cycle to say the least. These dudes will never be on Ye's level because they don't acknowledge the ones that gave them the room to grow in the first place.

D0wn

808 Babies??? More Like Graduation BABIEs....

Thereal_ba

There's was auto tune before 95'

MrCrookedLetter

Lab Baby wrote: »

My only issue with the "Kanye babies" is that they lack the respect that Kanye has when acknowledging his ancestors. Ye's influences span from Michael Jackson to Tribe to Jay to even some of these new cats, and he boasts that proudly. That's damn near 50 years of music. These new dudes would call something wack if it came out 10 years ago and doesn't have an 808 drum to it. Their palette is stuck on the last 5 years, which has been a vicious cycle to say the least. These dudes will never be on Ye's level because they don't acknowledge the ones that gave them the room to grow in the first place.

Wtf are you talking about? Name names

fuc_i_look_like

black ppl still caping for kanye in 2016?? smh.

StillFaggyAF

MrCrookedLetter wrote: »

Lab Baby wrote: »

My only issue with the "Kanye babies" is that they lack the respect that Kanye has when acknowledging his ancestors. Ye's influences span from Michael Jackson to Tribe to Jay to even some of these new cats, and he boasts that proudly. That's damn near 50 years of music. These new dudes would call something wack if it came out 10 years ago and doesn't have an 808 drum to it. Their palette is stuck on the last 5 years, which has been a vicious cycle to say the least. These dudes will never be on Ye's level because they don't acknowledge the ones that gave them the room to grow in the first place.

Wtf are you talking about? Name names

tharealest561

This new generation ain't ? . Smh at hearing a Premier bear and being unimpressed and uninspired.

Everybody just wanna whine on the same repetitive ass beats. I'm only 26 but I feel so separated from this new trash that's everywhere.

I liked 808's btw.

achewon87

Thereal_ba wrote: »

There's was auto tune before 95'

Definitely...

Just wasn't called Auto Tune and wasn't done so quickly or in real time, slower process...

Pitch Correction...

Mr.LV

D0wn wrote: »

808 Babies??? More Like Graduation BABIEs....

Graduation was definitely the album that steered rap music in a different direction,When kanye on his intro "Good morning" said this

"On this day we become legendary
Everything we dreamed of
I'm like a fly Malcolm X
Buy any jeans necessary
Detroit Red cleaned up
From the streets of the league
From an eighth to a ki
But you graduate when you make it up outta the streets"
When he said that I knew right then and there mainstream rap music was go into a regular guy who happens to rap but who is not former drug dealer and doesn’t rap about shooting guns etc.

Qiv_Owan

achewon87 wrote: »

Thereal_ba wrote: »

There's was auto tune before 95'

Definitely...

Just wasn't called Auto Tune and wasn't done so quickly or in real time, slower process...

Pitch Correction...

Computer Love

No Diggity...no doubt

A ? forgot about Riley and Troutman...80s baby all day

Turfaholic

? _i_look_like wrote: »

black ppl still caping for kanye in 2016?? smh.

I was officially done after the contacts & cowboy jacket

jono

Lil Uzi Vert's Hot 97 interview. I’ve watched Travis Scott before deride older artists asking “if they were ever really good,” and am used to the apathy of the modern rapper who insists that he doesn’t care anything about rapping, but this Lil Uzi Vert interview was golden.

As Hot 97 DJ Ebro cues up what Premier considers one of his greatest beats, “Mass Appeal,” Lil Uzi Vert catches wind and has an utter look of disgust.

“Oh, he making me rap on that?!?” Vert exclaims.

“I’m too young…I’m not into that.”

Ebro tries to coax him into it, “It’s just drums.”

“and nothing else.” Vert quickly retorts.

Mention of 808 & Heartbreaks, however, makes the Lil Uzi light up.

“Changed my life.”

Too much fail to continue. So I'm a gracefully bow out. Y'all can have it.

BenjaminE

I found myself single in my late 20s... went on a date with a chick in her early 20s... She asked me if I like Cudi... told her I put Mr. Rager 2 in the recycling bin... the date was over...

Qiv_Owan

Mr.LV wrote: »

D0wn wrote: »

808 Babies??? More Like Graduation BABIEs....

Graduation was definitely the album that steered rap music in a different direction,When kanye on his intro "Good morning" said this

"On this day we become legendary
Everything we dreamed of
I'm like a fly Malcolm X
Buy any jeans necessary
Detroit Red cleaned up
From the streets of the league
From an eighth to a ki
But you graduate when you make it up outta the streets"
When he said that I knew right then and there mainstream rap music was go into a regular guy who happens to rap but who is not former drug dealer and doesn’t rap about shooting guns etc.

And when he bodied 50 with the album sales competition

Qiv_Owan

Qiv_Owan wrote: »

Mr.LV wrote: »

D0wn wrote: »

808 Babies??? More Like Graduation BABIEs....

Graduation was definitely the album that steered rap music in a different direction,When kanye on his intro "Good morning" said this

"On this day we become legendary
Everything we dreamed of
I'm like a fly Malcolm X
Buy any jeans necessary
Detroit Red cleaned up
From the streets of the league
From an eighth to a ki
But you graduate when you make it up outta the streets"
When he said that I knew right then and there mainstream rap music was go into a regular guy who happens to rap but who is not former drug dealer and doesn’t rap about shooting guns

? i double posted...? mobile

macadonwoo

Yeah Kanye ruined hip hop

BackInWhite

tharealest561 wrote: »

This new generation ain't ? . Smh at hearing a Premier bear and being unimpressed and uninspired.

Everybody just wanna whine on the same repetitive ass beats. I'm only 26 but I feel so separated from this new trash that's everywhere.

I liked 808's btw.

Premier sucks, brah

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Mr.LV

Qiv_Owan wrote: »

Mr.LV wrote: »

D0wn wrote: »

808 Babies??? More Like Graduation BABIEs....

Graduation was definitely the album that steered rap music in a different direction,When kanye on his intro "Good morning" said this

"On this day we become legendary
Everything we dreamed of
I'm like a fly Malcolm X
Buy any jeans necessary
Detroit Red cleaned up
From the streets of the league
From an eighth to a ki
But you graduate when you make it up outta the streets"
When he said that I knew right then and there mainstream rap music was go into a regular guy who happens to rap but who is not former drug dealer and doesn’t rap about shooting guns etc.

And when he bodied 50 with the album sales competition

Lol yeah the quality of Graduation was better than Curtis,I remember when I listened to Graduation first then Curtis I couldn't get 4 tracks into Curtis and felt it was kind of boring and dated compare to Graduation.

natural born sinners

tharealest561 wrote: »

This new generation ain't ? . Smh at hearing a Premier bear and being unimpressed and uninspired.

Everybody just wanna whine on the same repetitive ass beats. I'm only 26 but I feel so separated from this new trash that's everywhere.

I liked 808's btw.

That's bc it's always been "cool" to ? on the "old school" smh