Is it fair to say that the gods or our higher power is lazy? Or just incapable?
Options
Comments
-
808HiLife808 wrote: »excerpt from a book im reading..
"Monotheists have to practise intellectual gymnastics to explain how an all-knowing, all-powerful and perfectly good ? allows so much suffering in the world.
One well-known explanation is that this is ? ’s way of allowing for human free will.
Freedom of will allows humans to choose evil. Many indeed choose evil and, according to the standard monotheist account, this choice must bring divine punishment in its wake.
If ? knew in advance that a particular person would use her free will to choose evil, and that as a result she would be punished for this by eternal tortures in hell, why did ? create her?
For dualists, it’s easy to explain evil. Bad things happen even to good people because the world is not governed single-handedly by a good ? ."
Makes a lot of sense, what book is that?
I remember believing in one ? a very long time ago and ALWAYS playing mental gymnastics in my head lol.....
Like how a single good ? could watch the world in the shape it's in now and yet do nothing. I don't see ANY sense in believing in a single, good ? anymore. Not sure how anyone can believe in such a ? , unless one can accept it ALSO being a very lazy or perhaps heartless ? . Then it wouldn't be so good. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »808HiLife808 wrote: »excerpt from a book im reading..
"Monotheists have to practise intellectual gymnastics to explain how an all-knowing, all-powerful and perfectly good ? allows so much suffering in the world.
One well-known explanation is that this is ? ’s way of allowing for human free will.
Freedom of will allows humans to choose evil. Many indeed choose evil and, according to the standard monotheist account, this choice must bring divine punishment in its wake.
If ? knew in advance that a particular person would use her free will to choose evil, and that as a result she would be punished for this by eternal tortures in hell, why did ? create her?
For dualists, it’s easy to explain evil. Bad things happen even to good people because the world is not governed single-handedly by a good ? ."
Makes a lot of sense, what book is that?
I remember believing in one ? a very long time ago and ALWAYS playing mental gymnastics in my head lol.....
Like how a single good ? could watch the world in the shape it's in now and yet do nothing. I don't see ANY sense in believing in a single, good ? anymore. Not sure how anyone can believe in such a ? , unless one can accept it ALSO being a very lazy or perhaps heartless ? . Then it wouldn't be so good.
not necessarily about religion, but ? sapien as a whole i guess. good read though, especially for those that think objectively -
808HiLife808 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »808HiLife808 wrote: »excerpt from a book im reading..
"Monotheists have to practise intellectual gymnastics to explain how an all-knowing, all-powerful and perfectly good ? allows so much suffering in the world.
One well-known explanation is that this is ? ’s way of allowing for human free will.
Freedom of will allows humans to choose evil. Many indeed choose evil and, according to the standard monotheist account, this choice must bring divine punishment in its wake.
If ? knew in advance that a particular person would use her free will to choose evil, and that as a result she would be punished for this by eternal tortures in hell, why did ? create her?
For dualists, it’s easy to explain evil. Bad things happen even to good people because the world is not governed single-handedly by a good ? ."
Makes a lot of sense, what book is that?
I remember believing in one ? a very long time ago and ALWAYS playing mental gymnastics in my head lol.....
Like how a single good ? could watch the world in the shape it's in now and yet do nothing. I don't see ANY sense in believing in a single, good ? anymore. Not sure how anyone can believe in such a ? , unless one can accept it ALSO being a very lazy or perhaps heartless ? . Then it wouldn't be so good.
not necessarily about religion, but ? sapien as a whole i guess. good read though, especially for those that think objectively
Sounds wild interesting, I'm a history fanatic so I should cop that.
The human experience is so different for so many around the world, I wonder what the book says about human history and our desire to create so many different religions and belief systems in general. Back in ancient times, people almost universally believed in multiple gods, but times have changed. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »808HiLife808 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »808HiLife808 wrote: »excerpt from a book im reading..
"Monotheists have to practise intellectual gymnastics to explain how an all-knowing, all-powerful and perfectly good ? allows so much suffering in the world.
One well-known explanation is that this is ? ’s way of allowing for human free will.
Freedom of will allows humans to choose evil. Many indeed choose evil and, according to the standard monotheist account, this choice must bring divine punishment in its wake.
If ? knew in advance that a particular person would use her free will to choose evil, and that as a result she would be punished for this by eternal tortures in hell, why did ? create her?
For dualists, it’s easy to explain evil. Bad things happen even to good people because the world is not governed single-handedly by a good ? ."
Makes a lot of sense, what book is that?
I remember believing in one ? a very long time ago and ALWAYS playing mental gymnastics in my head lol.....
Like how a single good ? could watch the world in the shape it's in now and yet do nothing. I don't see ANY sense in believing in a single, good ? anymore. Not sure how anyone can believe in such a ? , unless one can accept it ALSO being a very lazy or perhaps heartless ? . Then it wouldn't be so good.
not necessarily about religion, but ? sapien as a whole i guess. good read though, especially for those that think objectively
Sounds wild interesting, I'm a history fanatic so I should cop that.
The human experience is so different for so many around the world, I wonder what the book says about human history and our desire to create so many different religions and belief systems in general. Back in ancient times, people almost universally believed in multiple gods, but times have changed.
definitely worth the read -
808HiLife808 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »808HiLife808 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »808HiLife808 wrote: »excerpt from a book im reading..
"Monotheists have to practise intellectual gymnastics to explain how an all-knowing, all-powerful and perfectly good ? allows so much suffering in the world.
One well-known explanation is that this is ? ’s way of allowing for human free will.
Freedom of will allows humans to choose evil. Many indeed choose evil and, according to the standard monotheist account, this choice must bring divine punishment in its wake.
If ? knew in advance that a particular person would use her free will to choose evil, and that as a result she would be punished for this by eternal tortures in hell, why did ? create her?
For dualists, it’s easy to explain evil. Bad things happen even to good people because the world is not governed single-handedly by a good ? ."
Makes a lot of sense, what book is that?
I remember believing in one ? a very long time ago and ALWAYS playing mental gymnastics in my head lol.....
Like how a single good ? could watch the world in the shape it's in now and yet do nothing. I don't see ANY sense in believing in a single, good ? anymore. Not sure how anyone can believe in such a ? , unless one can accept it ALSO being a very lazy or perhaps heartless ? . Then it wouldn't be so good.
not necessarily about religion, but ? sapien as a whole i guess. good read though, especially for those that think objectively
Sounds wild interesting, I'm a history fanatic so I should cop that.
The human experience is so different for so many around the world, I wonder what the book says about human history and our desire to create so many different religions and belief systems in general. Back in ancient times, people almost universally believed in multiple gods, but times have changed.
definitely worth the read
The reviews are incredible online.....I'm gonna order it this weekend, props. I'll post my thoughts on it hopefully not too long from now. -
I thought about this thread after watching this video....it's about a 13 year old stuck in a baby's body, literally. Not sure if the teenager knows what's going on but damn.
Assuming there is an afterlife in the form of a heaven, would this kid remain in its current shape? Or would he be more developed like a normal kid? This kid could also be a result of ? , but if not, then what a weird thing for nature to create. Strange as ? .
https://youtu.be/YoXhNOzVuLI -
Is it fair to say that the gods or our higher power is lazy? Or just incapable?
I'd say they were/are selective.
There's many instances in the Bible where we explicitly read that '? ' has intervened/communicated w his creation. Few examples; Garden of Eden, Mount Sinai, Egypt etc..
He was so involved, in every aspect.
After their time, it seems to have stopped.
Where is '? ' now? Why isn't he helping America, the Christian Nation, defeat our enemies? He helped Moses. There's a list of things he's done in the Bible that he's never done today. It's only done through symbolism, now, in your favor, so it's easy to explain.
You'll get your stories today here and there, but never in the obvious fashion it was explained in the Bible. Only happens to certain people. Selective Gods. -
Is it fair to say that the gods or our higher power is lazy? Or just incapable?
I'd say they were/are selective.
There's many instances in the Bible where we explicitly read that '? ' has intervened/communicated w his creation. Few examples; Garden of Eden, Mount Sinai, Egypt etc..
He was so involved, in every aspect.
After their time, it seems to have stopped.
Where is '? ' now? Why isn't he helping America, the Christian Nation, defeat our enemies? He helped Moses. There's a list of things he's done in the Bible that he's never done today. It's only done through symbolism, now, in your favor, so it's easy to explain.
You'll get your stories today here and there, but never in the obvious fashion it was explained in the Bible. Only happens to certain people. Selective Gods.
So in other words, the gods have favorites? People they choose to bless for whatever reason, and others they just aren't that interested in? I've thought about that a lot in my lifetime, cuz it definitely seems like some are very, very blessed, and others just seem to have the worst of luck.
Probably true. -
@808HiLife808
The book came in last night. It's a lot bigger then I thought lol, but I've read a good amount of pages so far, very incredible.
I can tell this could be a life changing book, I'm only afraid that it's gonna horrify me, humans didn't get this far by being nice, that's for sure. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Is it fair to say that the gods or our higher power is lazy? Or just incapable?
I'd say they were/are selective.
There's many instances in the Bible where we explicitly read that '? ' has intervened/communicated w his creation. Few examples; Garden of Eden, Mount Sinai, Egypt etc..
He was so involved, in every aspect.
After their time, it seems to have stopped.
Where is '? ' now? Why isn't he helping America, the Christian Nation, defeat our enemies? He helped Moses. There's a list of things he's done in the Bible that he's never done today. It's only done through symbolism, now, in your favor, so it's easy to explain.
You'll get your stories today here and there, but never in the obvious fashion it was explained in the Bible. Only happens to certain people. Selective Gods.
So in other words, the gods have favorites? People they choose to bless for whatever reason, and others they just aren't that interested in? I've thought about that a lot in my lifetime, cuz it definitely seems like some are very, very blessed, and others just seem to have the worst of luck.
Probably true.
The Bible is pretty obvious w it's favoritism. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Is it fair to say that the gods or our higher power is lazy? Or just incapable?
I'd say they were/are selective.
There's many instances in the Bible where we explicitly read that '? ' has intervened/communicated w his creation. Few examples; Garden of Eden, Mount Sinai, Egypt etc..
He was so involved, in every aspect.
After their time, it seems to have stopped.
Where is '? ' now? Why isn't he helping America, the Christian Nation, defeat our enemies? He helped Moses. There's a list of things he's done in the Bible that he's never done today. It's only done through symbolism, now, in your favor, so it's easy to explain.
You'll get your stories today here and there, but never in the obvious fashion it was explained in the Bible. Only happens to certain people. Selective Gods.
So in other words, the gods have favorites? People they choose to bless for whatever reason, and others they just aren't that interested in? I've thought about that a lot in my lifetime, cuz it definitely seems like some are very, very blessed, and others just seem to have the worst of luck.
Probably true.
The Bible is pretty obvious w it's favoritism.
Yeah, the Jews are "the chosen ones" there, but even in the Bible (which is mostly fiction), the Jews often criticized and dissed their own ? because so many had bad luck.
In my opinion, that reasoning is part of the reason why humanity created so many different gods. When one ? failed or disappointed people, people often would turn to another (or none), as many of the ancient Jews did. Where these "gods" came from, who knows.
-
The big hurricane in Texas kind of reminds me of this thread too. Many of us here are in agreement that it's very possible that any higher power out there might be unaware as to what's going on in this world, something I honestly hope is true. I would think it very strange that any ? out there is letting this happen on purpose, but who knows, maybe population control is on its mind. Or worse.
On the other hand, I'm leaning towards believing that any higher power out there is just too busy to care about what's happening on Earth, busy doing what, who ? knows. If it does care, then it has to be incapable. What parent would sit by as a bunch of their children drown? I tried to get my mom's thoughts on the hurricane and this topic, since she's a Christian, and she changed the subject as soon as she could lol......
-
Study the Occult, you will gather a clearer understanding
-
Coded Universe wrote: »Study the Occult, you will gather a clearer understanding
Hmmm, not a bad idea. I know quite a bit about Haitian voodoo, but I've never studied the occult that deeply. -
@808HiLife808
I just finished reading the book Sapiens.....I gotta say, after reading it, I lost a lot of respect for humanity. Of course, humanity has accomplished a lot, but at the terrible sacrifice, torture and misery of billions of other living things on Earth. Including other humans, but especially farm animals. The chapters in which he describes the human farming system was pretty shocking to me. Humans in general treat other living things very badly.
The author seems to be an atheist, which is very understandable, considering the world we live in. On that note, based on human history, if there are any gods out there, maybe they feel humans don't deserve intervention or help. After reading the book, I can understand why any gods out there may have abandoned us.
Then again, what does that say about the forces that created humanity? If we are indeed made in "? 's" image as some religions say, then ? must be one scary ? . Great book, that last chapter was deep. One of the top 5 best books I've ever read. -
Religion is interesting in such a way that there is an answer for everything and the best part about it is, it does not have to make sense !!! If it does not make sense to you then your faith is not strong enough and you are not truely committed to the religion. I believe a higher power, I believe in ? and he is very capable but the price of freedom is some level of chaos.
In Christian dogma one cannot really have ? have more control over their life unless they let him in and live in his word. Religion is what is keeping that woman hopeful and accepting of her poor childs situation, where as in other places and times the poor child would have been discarded. Maybe her letting ? into her heart , allows him to control her feelings and pain. Yes ? could have simply just prevented the lil girl from being born the way that she is. He did not, and we will never understand divine logic.
Sometimes, it is easier just not thinking about it at all, which is why i think some people would rather just be Atheists -
kingblaze84 wrote: »@808HiLife808
I just finished reading the book Sapiens.....I gotta say, after reading it, I lost a lot of respect for humanity. Of course, humanity has accomplished a lot, but at the terrible sacrifice, torture and misery of billions of other living things on Earth. Including other humans, but especially farm animals. The chapters in which he describes the human farming system was pretty shocking to me. Humans in general treat other living things very badly.
The author seems to be an atheist, which is very understandable, considering the world we live in. On that note, based on human history, if there are any gods out there, maybe they feel humans don't deserve intervention or help. After reading the book, I can understand why any gods out there may have abandoned us.
Then again, what does that say about the forces that created humanity? If we are indeed made in "? 's" image as some religions say, then ? must be one scary ? . Great book, that last chapter was deep. One of the top 5 best books I've ever read.
yea. when i finished it, it kind of put humanity as a whole in a different light for me. the part on happiness blew my mind. my friend was telling me that the sequel goes further into the future, but i didnt really ask him if it was as good as the first. i may check it out anyway. -
Religion is interesting in such a way that there is an answer for everything and the best part about it is, it does not have to make sense !!! If it does not make sense to you then your faith is not strong enough and you are not truely committed to the religion. I believe a higher power, I believe in ? and he is very capable but the price of freedom is some level of chaos.
In Christian dogma one cannot really have ? have more control over their life unless they let him in and live in his word. Religion is what is keeping that woman hopeful and accepting of her poor childs situation, where as in other places and times the poor child would have been discarded. Maybe her letting ? into her heart , allows him to control her feelings and pain. Yes ? could have simply just prevented the lil girl from being born the way that she is. He did not, and we will never understand divine logic.
Sometimes, it is easier just not thinking about it at all, which is why i think some people would rather just be Atheists
you would just rather blindly follow something with neither rhyme nor reason? the fact that there can be an answer for everything even if it doesnt make sense means that people can contort the answers to however they see fit. if ? was all powerful, why do you "need" to accept him? why does the "devil" get credit for the bad things and negativity that happen? -
808HiLife808 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »@808HiLife808
I just finished reading the book Sapiens.....I gotta say, after reading it, I lost a lot of respect for humanity. Of course, humanity has accomplished a lot, but at the terrible sacrifice, torture and misery of billions of other living things on Earth. Including other humans, but especially farm animals. The chapters in which he describes the human farming system was pretty shocking to me. Humans in general treat other living things very badly.
The author seems to be an atheist, which is very understandable, considering the world we live in. On that note, based on human history, if there are any gods out there, maybe they feel humans don't deserve intervention or help. After reading the book, I can understand why any gods out there may have abandoned us.
Then again, what does that say about the forces that created humanity? If we are indeed made in "? 's" image as some religions say, then ? must be one scary ? . Great book, that last chapter was deep. One of the top 5 best books I've ever read.
yea. when i finished it, it kind of put humanity as a whole in a different light for me. the part on happiness blew my mind. my friend was telling me that the sequel goes further into the future, but i didnt really ask him if it was as good as the first. i may check it out anyway.
I'm so impressed with the book that I may check out the sequel too, although it's hard to say for sure what humanity's future holds. The part on happiness was interesting, we find ways to amuse ourselves and get fun out of life, but many if not most of us still have some kind of dissatisfaction with something. People as a whole are never fully satisfied, we're always wanting or desiring something, even if we don't really need it. The Buddha was pretty accurate on happiness, IMO.
-
Religion is interesting in such a way that there is an answer for everything and the best part about it is, it does not have to make sense !!! If it does not make sense to you then your faith is not strong enough and you are not truely committed to the religion. I believe a higher power, I believe in ? and he is very capable but the price of freedom is some level of chaos.
In Christian dogma one cannot really have ? have more control over their life unless they let him in and live in his word. Religion is what is keeping that woman hopeful and accepting of her poor childs situation, where as in other places and times the poor child would have been discarded. Maybe her letting ? into her heart , allows him to control her feelings and pain. Yes ? could have simply just prevented the lil girl from being born the way that she is. He did not, and we will never understand divine logic.
Sometimes, it is easier just not thinking about it at all, which is why i think some people would rather just be Atheists
I can see where atheists are coming from though, because when I do think about our higher power or higher powers, it raises some disturbing questions, assuming ? really is capable. Why so much absence, why surround humans with TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of harmful bacteria that can paralyze kids at birth and so much worse? Why are animals going through so much misery with humans around, and why the sadistic prey vs predator system?
An atheist has a hard time explaining the seeming design of the world, but an atheist has good points in the serious flaws of what we call a ? . The world has a sense of order true, but a sense of natural chaos too. This chaos often has nothing to do with people or freedom, it just happens. Hurricanes and earthquakes are examples, is this capable ? you speak of purposely allowing these earthquakes, hurricanes, and bacteria to torture humans and others?
Is it possible this capable ? you speak of is somewhat sadistic, maybe enjoying the suffering and pain many humans (and animals) go through? After all, you make it seem as if it's aware of humanity's problems, yet it uses its power to stand by. -
808HiLife808 wrote: »Religion is interesting in such a way that there is an answer for everything and the best part about it is, it does not have to make sense !!! If it does not make sense to you then your faith is not strong enough and you are not truely committed to the religion. I believe a higher power, I believe in ? and he is very capable but the price of freedom is some level of chaos.
In Christian dogma one cannot really have ? have more control over their life unless they let him in and live in his word. Religion is what is keeping that woman hopeful and accepting of her poor childs situation, where as in other places and times the poor child would have been discarded. Maybe her letting ? into her heart , allows him to control her feelings and pain. Yes ? could have simply just prevented the lil girl from being born the way that she is. He did not, and we will never understand divine logic.
Sometimes, it is easier just not thinking about it at all, which is why i think some people would rather just be Atheists
you would just rather blindly follow something with neither rhyme nor reason? the fact that there can be an answer for everything even if it doesnt make sense means that people can contort the answers to however they see fit. if ? was all powerful, why do you "need" to accept him? why does the "devil" get credit for the bad things and negativity that happen?
Faith is strange because it creates the illusion of sight, so one who is faithful does not really believe they are moving blindly. Me personally, no I cannot blindly follow religion completely, that is why I do not consider myself a true Christian, because I question the faith in itself, but i do not question the existence of ? .
Religion is designed in such a way that if something comes up that makes you question it, all you have to do is use the logic that some evil force is manipulating your mind. The faith has an answer for all that start to question. Imagine for instance if ? came from the sky speaking Arabic and claiming Islam is the true religion, many Christians would believe it is an illusion of the devil, rather than accept that maybe they are wrong.
People find comfort in faith, it answers questions, it provides meaning, and some cannot live without those things. The rest of us can withstand some type of nihilism, and require concrete evidence before truly committing to the idea of something being completely true.
If religion pacifies one to be able to find some type of happiness or peace without taking that away from others, i am all for it. -
808HiLife808 wrote: »Religion is interesting in such a way that there is an answer for everything and the best part about it is, it does not have to make sense !!! If it does not make sense to you then your faith is not strong enough and you are not truely committed to the religion. I believe a higher power, I believe in ? and he is very capable but the price of freedom is some level of chaos.
In Christian dogma one cannot really have ? have more control over their life unless they let him in and live in his word. Religion is what is keeping that woman hopeful and accepting of her poor childs situation, where as in other places and times the poor child would have been discarded. Maybe her letting ? into her heart , allows him to control her feelings and pain. Yes ? could have simply just prevented the lil girl from being born the way that she is. He did not, and we will never understand divine logic.
Sometimes, it is easier just not thinking about it at all, which is why i think some people would rather just be Atheists
you would just rather blindly follow something with neither rhyme nor reason? the fact that there can be an answer for everything even if it doesnt make sense means that people can contort the answers to however they see fit. if ? was all powerful, why do you "need" to accept him? why does the "devil" get credit for the bad things and negativity that happen?
Faith is strange because it creates the illusion of sight, so one who is faithful does not really believe they are moving blindly. Me personally, no I cannot blindly follow religion completely, that is why I do not consider myself a true Christian, because I question the faith in itself, but i do not question the existence of ? .
Religion is designed in such a way that if something comes up that makes you question it, all you have to do is use the logic that some evil force is manipulating your mind. The faith has an answer for all that start to question. Imagine for instance if ? came from the sky speaking Arabic and claiming Islam is the true religion, many Christians would believe it is an illusion of the devil, rather than accept that maybe they are wrong.
People find comfort in faith, it answers questions, it provides meaning, and some cannot live without those things. The rest of us can withstand some type of nihilism, and require concrete evidence before truly committing to the idea of something being completely true.
If religion pacifies one to be able to find some type of happiness or peace without taking that away from others, i am all for it.
shouts out to you for this reply.
i somewhat feel the same way as your last sentence. if it helps you to be a "better person" then im not gonna knock it as long as you dont come trying to convert me. at the same time, those abrahamic religions are guilty of the whole taking away from others... -
Blind faith is a hard concept for most in our times, they need evidence, hard scientific evidence mostly. Nothing wrong with that, IMHO there are moral lessons defining good and bad behavior. Religion was the first attempt at psychology and science fixed that, now it's more just philosophy and works for the masses but not for everyone.
-
Blind faith is a hard concept for most in our times, they need evidence, hard scientific evidence mostly. Nothing wrong with that, IMHO there are moral lessons defining good and bad behavior. Religion was the first attempt at psychology and science fixed that, now it's more just philosophy and works for the masses but not for everyone.
I do give religion some credit for some of the laws against bad behavior and what not, though I have big problems with some things the Abrahamic religions support as well. But I am willing to say many, if not most religious people are well behaved (these days) and some do credit their religion for that. -
A priest in Houston told reporters he has a hard time telling people why his ? allowed Hurricane Harvey to harm and drown so many people.
The Bible in more than 30 passages claims that ? himself controls the weather, but what's interesting these days is that Joel Olsteen and other Christians seem to be distancing ? from the hurricane lol....I guess Christian leaders realize admitting the Bible ? created the hurricane isn't exactly good public relations, cuz Joel Olsteen gives praise to his ? when good things happen, but when bad things happen, suddenly no one is responsible. Very strange......
https://www.yahoo.com/news/priest-grasps-words-storm-victims-pain-071940787.html
Priest grasps for words as storm victims question their pain
HOUSTON (AP) — The Rev. Mark Goring nears his parish community center and the mounds of trash come into view. Shards of plywood and plaster are stacked atop heaps of black trash bags bulging with soggy filth. Inside, soaked furniture has been pushed aside as workers buzz jigsaws to cut slabs of drywall soaked by more than two feet (60 centimeters) of water that gushed in from the bayou.
It's a mirror of what many who pray alongside this priest are struggling with at home, and he draws them close in a circle, heads bowed and hands clasped. He tells them they worship a ? of miracles, that they won't be crushed by their losses, that as mysterious and unwanted as it may be, this trial is a gift that reminds them what exactly they hold true.
Some who have come to Goring in the days since Hurricane Harvey hit ask what kind of ? would allow such suffering. It's a question for which he has no answer.
