Born WITH sin?
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Also, if you do this so, can you explain your answer? I want it to be clear as to if we are born with sin. As if babies, children, are born with sin already in them.
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You already know my stance on this, but for those that don't, No. Not only because I'm not a believer of the bible but becuase....
The bible specifically tells you multiple times that people are born without sin and that it is against our own nature to sin. -
ether-i-am wrote: »hell yeah! my 1yr old is the perfect example of a sinner! she's bad as hell!
When my son starts gettin bad lil ? gettin chained up in the basement. -
Yeah, its part of our makeup because none of us are perfect...
Babies, kids, children are also sinner, but they arent really held accountable until a certain age, ie. Its the parents job to teach them right from wrong... Ill have to find the scripture on what im talkin about... -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »You already know my stance on this, but for those that don't, No. Not only because I'm not a believer of the bible but becuase....
The bible specifically tells you multiple times that people are born without sin and that it is against our own nature to sin.
Stupidly enough, Calvinist's think different.
We are born WITH sin and it's in our NATURE to sin and ? 's wrath is upon everyone, INCLUDING infants in the ? .
LOL! Wow at the false doctrine of MAN, not ? ! Fools.
I'm in a debate on another site about this subject and wow at them lol I was taught this in my church but always looked at it weird like how is that possible? But of course accepted the spoon. Now falling into my studies I've found out a lot actually.
1. We aren't born sinners. It's against our nature to do so.
2. We all have free will. (Calvinists seem to think we don't. Everything is "predetermined")
3. ? is NOT all knowing. He knows His creation though. He knows us; our hearts, our thoughts (notice, thoughts, current as it's happening) He knows how His creations started and will end. He knew He had to create Jesus for our sins. He doesn't know what I will do with my life, He doesn't know my outcome. He doesn't know what I will think or do tomorrow. Because there is absolutely no scripture to support this, this is why I believe this now. I found this out through my "free will" study.
So stupid are we the church that feeds in to doctrine that has been passed down and twisted and passed down and twisted.
The bible is so simple if we just study it in the up most simplistic way we will understand it better.
Trust when I say it's been hard because these stupid teachings have been embedded into my head. It's been hard because I feel I'm going against ? but all in all I've found I am not doing that. I've found the TRUTH!
Damn I feel like DoU with that last sentence lol anyway, let the thread go back to it's original theme.. -
Stupidly enough, Calvinist's think different.
We are born WITH sin and it's in our NATURE to sin and ? 's wrath is upon everyone, INCLUDING infants in the ? .
LOL! Wow at the false doctrine of MAN, not ? ! Fools.
I'm in a debate on another site about this subject and wow at them lol I was taught this in my church but always looked at it weird like how is that possible? But of course accepted the spoon. Now falling into my studies I've found out a lot actually.
1. We aren't born sinners. It's against our nature to do so.
2. We all have free will. (Calvinists seem to think we don't. Everything is "predetermined")
3. ? is NOT all knowing. He knows His creation though. He knows us; our hearts, our thoughts (notice, thoughts, current as it's happening) He knows how His creations started and will end. He knew He had to create Jesus for our sins. He doesn't know what I will do with my life, He doesn't know my outcome. He doesn't know what I will think or do tomorrow. Because there is absolutely no scripture to support this, this is why I believe this now. I found this out through my "free will" study.
So stupid are we the church that feeds in to doctrine that has been passed down and twisted and passed down and twisted.
The bible is so simple if we just study it in the up most simplistic way we will understand it better.
Trust when I say it's been hard because these stupid teachings have been embedded into my head. It's been hard because I feel I'm going against ? but all in all I've found I am not doing that. I've found the TRUTH!
Damn I feel like DoU with that last sentence lol anyway, let the thread go back to it's original theme..
I agree with what you said on everything. I'm glad you lead by the book and not the church. I don't have no problem with people who follow the Bible or Quran or w.e, I think the books have alot of good moral teachings and can change alot of lives for the better. I preach against religion though because no religion leads by the book as it says they should but rather lead by telling others what to do and not to do and what to believe and not believe and that's where the trouble starts and you see extremist from each religion.
and @ the bolded, this is one of the main reasons I doubt the credibility of any religious book. For you it's all truth, to me I can't help but think that somewhere in that book it was re-written, told differently, or completely made up at the time of the council. -
ether-i-am wrote: »I wonder why we couldn't be born saints. What does a baby do that's considered sin?
The bible says you are born sin free and in the favor of ? . That is why it is against our nature to sin because our natural nature is to be saints. -
ether-i-am wrote: »I wonder why we couldn't be born saints. What does a baby do that's considered sin?
Well according to some, if a baby cries a lot then the baby is crying selfishly which is sin. Uh, a 2 year old that hits you, sins. A 2 year old that "lies" sins.
Which is impossible. The bible says to make your hearts "like little children", spiritually, so that we can enter the Kingdom of ? . If we are born with sin in us already, then we cannot make ourselves like little children now can we? Then there's this verse..
And the LORD smelled a soothing aroma. Then the LORD said in His heart, “I will never again curse the ground for man’s sake, although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; nor will I again destroy every living thing as I have done
The keyword here is what? YOUTH!
The bible clearly shows us "children,child" as something PURE. Something without sin. Child = fetus to youth, so, fetus, infant, toddler, child, until YOUTH.
Now then we're given, "man's heart is evil from his youth". Youth is from puberty to adulthood. This is the beginning of the accountability. This is the beginning of nature of sin, where we're now able to grasp sin as lies, murders, stealing, etc.
So it's clearly stated in the bible that children do not and cannot sin. Only from youth does that nature take place.
? also never created sin, He couldn't. It would be against His own Law's. ? created His Law's which are? NEVER CHANGING. ? is NEVER CHANGING! Sin = LAWLESSNESS, which is against ? 's Law. If ? created sin, then He is against His own Law, which is impossible for ? to be. -
Trust when I say it's been hard because these stupid teachings have been embedded into my head. It's been hard because I feel I'm going against ? but all in all I've found I am not doing that. I've found the TRUTH!
Reason is the faculty given to man to distinguish true emotion from false emotionalism, faith from fanaticism, imagination from fancy, a true vision from visionary illusion. ~ Bhagavad Gita
If ? was any kind of ? , I would think ? would want man to seek truth for himself. As the scripture says, "even the elect to be deceived". -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »You already know my stance on this, but for those that don't, No. Not only because I'm not a believer of the bible but becuase....
The bible specifically tells you multiple times that people are born without sin and that it is against our own nature to sin.
So you don't believe the contents of the bible are true, but you believe we are born without sin because that's what the bible says? -
Who committed the original sin?
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Who committed the original sin?
You'd think it would be satan but its not. Then you'd think it would be eve, but again its not. Poor adam.
Ahh well, it all sounds like goofy oogitty boogitty stories when taken as literal. -
It would have to be Satan, period. No other. That's the ORIGINAL ORIGINAL sin.
The original sin for mankind would be Adam, but why? Why not Eve. Man was supposed to rule over everything, so all in all it was Adams responsibility. -
Yeah but satan wasn't a title originally. All satan means is adversary. One of the disciples for a moment was being adversarial(satan) to jesus mission.
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shootemwon wrote: »So you don't believe the contents of the bible are true, but you believe we are born without sin because that's what the bible says?
No I don't believe it, but if someone is asking a question about it I'm giving them an honest answer.
Do I believe the bible No.
But does the bible say we are not born with sin - Yes.
If somebody asked me if The Hobbit had a ring in it and I said yes the book "The Hobbit" has a ring in it does that mean I must believe that book? -
It would have to be Satan, period. No other. That's the ORIGINAL ORIGINAL sin.
The original sin for mankind would be Adam, but why? Why not Eve. Man was supposed to rule over everything, so all in all it was Adams responsibility.
But ? created "Satan", for Satan to have been of evil ? would also had to have been the creator of evil. You don't create a bottle without using oil and then oil magically appear in the bottles.
For you to say that Satan is the producer of evil is saying that his powers are on ? status and ? is just confident so says "Oh yeah my lost angel who turned Satan, yea yea, I'll whoop that ass fuggedaboutit!" -
ether-i-am wrote: »although the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth.
This is straight ? !
We was created in the way we was created. All this "what ? said" and "what ? wants" is the imagination of man, weather young or old. Believing this ? means you basically believe ? created us with some useless qualities just to deny it and call it sin. The bible and a lot of other religions try to ban instinct. We are a higher form of animal with a conscious, with awareness, with logic and reason. If it wasn't for these qualities we would be ? on the spot, sniffing ass and ? right next to the pile of ? .
They say Jesus was perfect. That's ? too. If he really existed he was a greedy little bastard that tried to horde ? just like the rest of these religous nuts, with his "only through me" ? . Greedy!!!!!
Don't be you, whom ? made you to be is the overall message of Christianity.
Faith means not wanting to know what is true!
If you strip away your personality(all the things you think constitutes "you"), what have you left? The imagination of man's heart is evil(sacrificing[mentally, physically, emotionally] others before themselves). They don't want instinct banned, they want you to control it. The thinking mind ought to be higher than the reactive(instinctual) mind.
Or maybe jesus meant that the only way to truth is through THE WAY he conducted himself. Through forgiveness, compassion and awareness. So don't be you, well WHO are YOU anyway, but a bunch of erroneous ideas and material objects. -
No one is born with sin, you are born into a world of sin. Born from our mothers ? and shaped in inequity.
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BiblicalAtheist wrote: »If you strip away your personality(all the things you think constitutes "you"), what have you left? The imagination of man's heart is evil(sacrificing[mentally, physically, emotionally] others before themselves). They don't want instinct banned, they want you to control it. The thinking mind ought to be higher than the reactive(instinctual) mind.
Or maybe jesus meant that the only way to truth is through THE WAY he conducted himself. Through forgiveness, compassion and awareness. So don't be you, well WHO are YOU anyway, but a bunch of erroneous ideas and material objects.
Thats why the bible says gods name is "I am" it all constitutes ones self. The things it teaches affect you. Worship yourself, believe in yourself, do right by yourself and in the end you will find peace within yourself. -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »No I don't believe it, but if someone is asking a question about it I'm giving them an honest answer.
Do I believe the bible No.
But does the bible say we are not born with sin - Yes.
If somebody asked me if The Hobbit had a ring in it and I said yes the book "The Hobbit" has a ring in it does that mean I must believe that book?
The question was "Is there anyone here that thinks that we are born with sin?", not "does the bible say we are born with sin"?
A more appropriate analogy would be me asking you if you believe in magic and you answer "Well, I don't think Harry Potter really exists, but those books say magic is real". Why the ? would you even bother reference a fictional book in response to a question about what you believe to be real?
Think about it. You came into the thread, announced that you do not believe the contents of the bible are true, and then referenced it's content in your statement. It's one of the most logically dysfunctional things I've ever seen. -
shootemwon wrote: »The question was "Is there anyone here that thinks that we are born with sin?", not "does the bible say we are born with sin"?
A more appropriate analogy would be me asking you if you believe in magic and you answer "Well, I don't think Harry Potter really exists, but those books say magic is real". Why the ? would you even bother reference a fictional book in response to a question about what you believe to be real?
Think about it. You came into the thread, announced that you do not believe the contents of the bible are true, and then referenced it's content in your statement. It's one of the most logically dysfunctional things I've ever seen.
Pointing out to those who follow the bible that the bible teaches no while the church teaches yes. -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »Thats why the bible says gods name is "I am" it all constitutes ones self. The things it teaches affect you. Worship yourself, believe in yourself, do right by yourself and in the end you will find peace within yourself.
I think that is why "jesus" said 'I AM' as well, because once you strip away everything you think you are, what left is there to say except 'I AM'. I AM is the most complete and accurate answer to the question "who are you?". I feel like I am talking to myself saying this to you as we share quite a bit of the same thought waves. -
BiblicalAtheist wrote: »I think that is why "jesus" said 'I AM' as well, because once you strip away everything you think you are, what left is there to say except 'I AM'. I AM is the most complete and accurate answer to the question "who are you?". I feel like I am talking to myself saying this to you as we share quite a bit of the same thought waves.
We were both brainwashed by the same Satanic books on life. -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »Pointing out to those who follow the bible that the bible teaches no while the church teaches yes.
It actually sounds like you're informing people who follow the church, since people who follow the bible would likely already be aware. Nonetheless, I still don't see why it reinforces YOUR belief that we are born without sin since you don't believe the bible. -
shootemwon wrote: »It actually sounds like you're informing people who follow the church, since people who follow the bible would likely already be aware. Nonetheless, I still don't see why it reinforces YOUR belief that we are born without sin since you don't believe the bible.
I don't believe in sin at all. I believe in struggle within yourself and that's it. If you see the bible the way I do, it isn't a book about a ? and his undying want for us to suck his ? it's a book about how to live with self told through fables. That's where the reinforcement comes in. If you take out the divinity and whole ? thing the bible can teach you alot about your inner-self and how to live life without want, stress, worries, etc... And there are people who claim to be bible followers yet adhere to church law still.
