Do moderate muslims speak out against some of the atrocities commited in their name?
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memphis
Members Posts: 201
I got these email today, which seem to be quite frequent these days. And I was wondering if those of us who are more tolerant could find or post some links where moderate muslims speak out against the fanatical actions of a few. I will post the email to get others thoughts on the matter. It is my contention that moderate muslims do speak out agains the atrocities and fanatical beliefs of some, but teh reason it is not more prominent is they are not given the same platform as those who are highlighting the atrocities
A German's View on Islam
A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. "Very few people were true Nazis," he said, "but many enjoyed the return of German pride after world war 1, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories."
We are told again and again by "experts" and "talking heads" that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectra of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-? . It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of ? victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to ? and to become suicide bombers.
The hard quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the "silent majority," is cowed and extraneous.
Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority was irrelevant.
China 's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to ? a staggering 70 million people.
The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering ? .. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.
And, who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were "peace loving"?
History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.
Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.
As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our way of life.
Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passivity that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world wide, read this and think about it, and send it on - before it's too late.
Emanuel Tanay, M.D.
2980 Provincial St. Ann Arbor , MI 48104
734-997-0256
A German's View on Islam
A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. "Very few people were true Nazis," he said, "but many enjoyed the return of German pride after world war 1, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories."
We are told again and again by "experts" and "talking heads" that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectra of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.
The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-? . It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of ? victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to ? and to become suicide bombers.
The hard quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the "silent majority," is cowed and extraneous.
Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority was irrelevant.
China 's huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to ? a staggering 70 million people.
The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering ? .. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.
And, who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were "peace loving"?
History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.
Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.
As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our way of life.
Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passivity that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world wide, read this and think about it, and send it on - before it's too late.
Emanuel Tanay, M.D.
2980 Provincial St. Ann Arbor , MI 48104
734-997-0256
Comments
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There are alot of them. In "Where in the World Is Osama Bin Laden" you get to see what alot of Muslims really think of Americans. And that is that the good majority don't have an issue with us. And think going after Bin Laden was a good thing.
Now obviously in Iraq and Afghanistan that is going to be swayed by their houses laying in rubble, but Saudi, Pakistan, Iran, Kuwait, etc... they treated dude like one of them.
I'll post some videos up in here though outside of that in a little bit. -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »There are alot of them. In "Where in the World Is Osama Bin Laden" you get to see what alot of Muslims really think of Americans. And that is that the good majority don't have an issue with us. And think going after Bin Laden was a good thing.
Now obviously in Iraq and Afghanistan that is going to be swayed by their houses laying in rubble, but Saudi, Pakistan, Iran, Kuwait, etc... they treated dude like one of them.
I'll post some videos up in here though outside of that in a little bit.
cool, thanks.
Do you think I am right thoguh, that those who do speak out are denied a proper platform to so? -
cool, thanks.
Do you think I am right thoguh, that those who do speak out are denied a proper platform to so?
Which kind of platform though?
If it's a national platform where they can go all over Al Jazeera and say they're cool with us then naw, they are denied a national level of freedom to speak favorably about us from within certain countries. But American Muslims, European Muslims I don't think they are. -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »Which kind of platform though?
If it's a national platform where they can go all over Al Jazeera and say they're cool with us then naw, they are denied a national level of freedom to speak favorably about us from within certain countries. But American Muslims, European Muslims I don't think they are.
yeah, that kind of platform. Most of the intolerance we see is from MSM outlets
here is a good link, the kind of thing I was looking for
http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm -
yeah, that kind of platform. Most of the intolerance we see is from MSM outlets
here is a good link, the kind of thing I was looking for
http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm
There a few nationally televised outlets they could go on and say that. I don't think it's much worst than some American Stations. I don't know how familiar you are in Canada with FOX news but it's pretty much banned anything that it thinks promotes socialism ie, universal health care, free schooling, government funded jobs, anything not biased in regards to black people, anything pro-obama, anything un-christian like, anything denouncing every Muslim as the spawn of Satan.
Plus you have to remember who is funding the MSM outlets. Alot of the time it is people with corrupt ties or terror cell ties. -
we get fox up here, I only watch the sitcoms on that station though and turn it off as soon as nightly news comes on
can you get Al-jazeera in the U.S -
BTW I looked a little bit on youtube, most of it was only beheadings or about Muslims in America. There was a couple I found from Saudi news networks supporting the US but it had no subtitles or anything.
Here is a link to watch the movie I was talking about. It gives you a very good description on how the average American thinks, and then how that thoughts is usually wrong in regards to their life, their thoughts, and how they feel.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/where-world-osama-bin-laden/we get fox up here, I only watch the sitcoms on that station though and turn it off as soon as nightly news comes on
can you get Al-jazeera in the U.S
I don't think, at least not where I live. You can catch it online though. -
cool man, thanks, I will watch it very soon.
yeah, I knew you could watch it online. I was wondering if there were lobbyist groups, I wont name names, that, like here in canada fought to prohibits its airing. They failed and it's available on almost all television service providers up here. -
cool man, thanks, I will watch it very soon.
yeah, I knew you could watch it online. I was wondering if there were lobbyist groups, I wont name names, that, like here in canada fought to prohibits its airing. They failed and it's available on almost all television service providers up here.
Oh no it aint in the US as far as I'm aware, our lobbyist have alot more control on our cultural availabilities. -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »Oh no it aint in the US as far as I'm aware, our lobbyist have alot more control on our cultural availabilities.
that's too bad. It would be good for peole to have an alternative voice.
I think it is important to have a balanced perspective from differen viewpoints on the happenings of the world. That's the beauty of the internet. You can go to cnn and then go to AJE and get a complete different take on things. Magazines are doing a great job providing new coverage to their readers as well. I frequent foreignpolicy.com very almost everyday. -
that's too bad. It would be good for peole to have an alternative voice.
I think it is important to have a balanced perspective from differen viewpoints on the happenings of the world. That's the beauty of the internet. You can go to cnn and then go to AJE and get a complete different take on things. Magazines are doing a great job providing new coverage to their readers as well. I frequent foreignpolicy.com very almost everyday.
Yea, ever since I started lookin on the internet for news, history, alternative views, etc.. and not the TV or people from my neighborhood my views on alot of things have changed. -
ok your a blk person on a hiphop board right. do you apologize for every murder done by blk hiphop youth. NO u dont
so should alll muslims apologize for terrorist attacks just because they sharre aspects of a certain culture with the attackers. -
politicalthug202 wrote: »ok your a blk person on a hiphop board right. do you apologize for every murder done by blk hiphop youth. NO u dont
so should alll muslims apologize for terrorist attacks just because they sharre aspects of a certain culture with the attackers.
No one said they should.
Just as your example and just as slavery what was done by those in the past is their responsibility and people of now should not have to bear the weight of someone elses actions. -
The press is only interested in two kinds of Muslims. The first is terrorists and their supporters. The second is actually comprised primarily of former Muslims who converted, and now disparage the faith and the culture.
As far as Muslims who want peace and despise radical violence being committed in the name of Islam, but also won't apologize for their faith and won't accept charges of collective guilt....well they just don't make a good news story I guess.
The other day NPR was interviewing a young Palestinian man living in the Gaza Strip who had the courage to say "? both of them" referring to the violent attacks being carried out by both Palestinians and Israelis. He goes on to say that all he wants is a job so he can support a family and have children with a woman he loves. Yeah, it's a dumb dream, I know, but the point is that while NPR is providing an idea of what life is like for regular people in the Muslim world, the more mainstream sources are only focusing on radicalism and controversy.
Brings me back to a point I often make, which always holds true: The only agenda the mainstream media has is ratings, but it's an agenda malicious enough to ? all over any sense of integrity. -
What is a moderate Muslim.
Don't know what that means. Haven't got a definition yet.
Haven't got one for Terrorist either. I remember former President Asad of Syria asked Clinton to define terrorist after Clinton ask for his help fighting terrorist, and Bill clammed up because if he would have gave the widely accepted definition, then Asad could have labeled the US a terrorist nation. That was one the only time I saw Clinton get sonned.
Besides, when white people from Europe on Westward begin speaking out and taking responsibility for things committed in their name, then maybe I will listen. A few suicide bombers every now and then is nothing compared to their track record, historically, past and present. -
What is a moderate Muslim.
Don't know what that means. Haven't got a definition yet.
Haven't got one for Terrorist either. I remember former President Asad of Syria asked Clinton to define terrorist after Clinton ask for his help fighting terrorist, and Bill clammed up because if he would have gave the widely accepted definition, then Asad could have labeled the US a terrorist nation. That was one the only time I saw Clinton get sonned.
A moderate Muslim is a Muslim who simply practices the Islamic faith and is a believer in Allah and Muhammad.
A terrorist is someone who advocates violence or threats toward a group with whom they disagree with or brings death upon those not involved with the intended target to send a message. -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »A moderate Muslim is a Muslim who simply practices the Islamic faith and is a believer in Allah and Muhammad.
A terrorist is someone who advocates violence or threats toward a group with whom they disagree with or brings death upon those not involved with the intended target to send a message.
Ok, but the faith advocates violence in some instances. Matter of fact, the Quran says fighting is inevitable because some will not leave you alone even unto death. Muhammad fought. He didn't start out fighting but when he was trying to establish a community, many came against him and they had to fight. Although it forbids aggression it doesn't forbid fighting.
And quite frankly, It just strikes me as amazing, when white people asks some group to speak out or take collective responsibility. Seriously, they have no moral standing to even suggest such a thing. None whatsoever. -
they speak out against terrorism all the time
but they ALWAYS preface or follow it by saying "but the US and the Jews are really to blame for it"
they will not just say "there are extremist muslims who murder people"
they will always say that any horrible thing done by a muslim is somehow the fault of either the US or the Jews
this is how they are raised to think -
Ok, but the faith advocates violence in some instances. Matter of fact, the Quran says fighting is inevitable because some will not leave you alone even unto death. Muhammad fought. He didn't start out fighting but when he was trying to establish a community, many came against him and they had to fight. Although it forbids aggression it doesn't forbid fighting.
But you and me both know the fighting in the Quran and the attacks by groups like Al-Queda are different things. And terrorist don't have to be Muslim so that excuse wouldn't work with them. The entire US is a terrorist organization, Israel, Tim McVeigh, Some ? that robs a bank and kills the teller, the KKK. -
Muhammad fought. He didn't start out fighting but when he was trying to establish a community, many came against him and they had to fight.
and by "establish community" you really mean "take over mecca, medina, everything in between, and as much of Arabia as possible in his lifetime, with the rest of the conquest to be carried out by his followers"
lol
you might as well say George Washington was just "establishing a community"
what a ? liar you are
you'll tell any lie to defend your disgusting religion -
KTULU IS BACK wrote: »they speak out against terrorism all the time
but they ALWAYS preface or follow it by saying "but the US and the Jews are really to blame for it"
they will not just say "there are extremist muslims who murder people"
they will always say that any horrible thing done by a muslim is somehow the fault of either the US or the Jews
this is how they are raised to think
That is how they have to say it, although they all don't, but for your argument lets say they all do.
To a racist saying, "Yes their are extremist Muslims" instantly means all Muslims are bad and then they get thrown into the mix either way. -
KTULU IS BACK wrote: »and by "establish community" you really mean "take over mecca, medina, everything in between, and as much of Arabia as possible in his lifetime, with the rest of the conquest to be carried out by his followers"
lol
you might as well say George Washington was just "establishing a community"
what a ? liar you are
you'll tell any lie to defend your disgusting religion
First of all, I don't have a religion, in the classical sense, Shylock. Second your whole persona is a lie. You have no credibility, after crafting a so-called Jewish identity only to say you were lying. Then I caught you fabricating Quranic verses out of your ass because your a ghetto scholar who is only interested in trolling.
Your knowledge of any theology is rudimentary at best. Theology was my Major and still my passion. I do serious research, not that ? google ? you do. I probably know more about the Talmud that spawned you, than you do. Your religion is the most disgusting. You have no respect for anyone including yourself.
Keep running your mouth and I'm going to show these good folks why you think and respond like you do.
And to show you how stupid you are, GW had a whole army behind him. Muhammad started by himself after being run out of Mecca, he started a community in Medina away from persecution of his own tribe. They returned to Mecca after 10 years without a fight. That is why the tradition of no fighting, weapons, or any other disruptive behavior is not tolerated in Mecca, even the most hardened critics know this.
Your not qualified to speak on any issue that relates to this. -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »But you and me both know the fighting in the Quran and the attacks by groups like Al-Queda are different things. And terrorist don't have to be Muslim so that excuse wouldn't work with them. The entire US is a terrorist organization, Israel, Tim McVeigh, Some ? that robs a bank and kills the teller, the KKK.
Man, I have been alot of places and most people on this Earth want the same thing, they just go about it in different ways. Them people just want to be left alone. I listen to ? like Ktulu, and I know damn well by his ignorant, uninformed responses, that he probably hasn't left his kiddie pool. People take whatever the media funnels into their brains and run with it. Americans are easily the most gullible and ignorant when it comes to international affairs. This ? will have you believe that if you step foot in places like Saudi Arabia and your Christian they will chop your head off, when the fact is there thousands of European Christians who live and work there. My friends fathers runs a telecom company and had lived there for over 14 years. And he is a staunch Christian.
Turn the TV off, and explore from your own vantage point. Look at all angles and make an informed intelligent decision.
Anything less, is less than civilized...............and stupid. -
Man, I have been alot of places and most people on this Earth want the same thing, they just go about it in different ways. Them people just want to be left alone. I listen to ? like Ktulu, and I know damn well by his ignorant, uninformed responses, that he probably hasn't left his kiddie pool. People take whatever the media funnels into their brains and run with it. Americans are easily the most gullible and ignorant when it comes to international affairs. This ? will have you believe that if you step foot in places like Saudi Arabia and your Christian they will chop your head off, when the fact is there thousands of European Christians who live and work there. My friends fathers runs a telecom company and had lived there for over 14 years. And he is a staunch Christian.
Turn the TV off, and explore from your own vantage point. Look at all angles and make an informed intelligent decision.
Anything less, is less than civilized...............and stupid.
Nothing really in response to what I said lol. But yea, you do know that certain groups take their want for things too far and in some cases it is religious fanaticism. Bin Laden didn't want to be left alone, America cut a deal with him in the past then ? him over and he wanted revenge, now certain groups are just on a power trip. Every religion has their own group of extremists. And yea, most peoples perceptions of the Middle East are wrong. Obvious in this thread by ? ? thinkin every Arab is Muslim. But when I played ball we had all types of people, Muslim, Christian, Jew, Atheist. We all got along fine, we went countries like Saudi, Jordan, Sudan, Egypt, etc... and played and never once had an issue. We had more issues in European countries than we did anywhere Islam is the dominant religion. The only place we have ever been denied access is Mecca. And that's fine if they want a secluded area strictly for Muslims. -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »The only place we have ever been denied access is Mecca. And that's fine if they want a secluded area strictly for Muslims.
Even Muslims are limited to what they can take into those precincts. National Cultural Dress is forbidden. If you rocking FUBU or Sean John or they make you take dem ? off.
