Yo forreal why Obama been talkin ? to progressives?
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shootemwon
Members Posts: 4,635 ✭✭
Despite the fact that true progressives knew Obama wasn't going to be a progressive's dream come true, we got behind him like our lives depended on it in 08 cause we figured he would at least give us a seat at the table. Since he's come into office, we've been critical, but the criticism has been mostly constructive. A few people on the left are outright hostile, but most of us still like the guy, which is all the more reason to provide him with pressure from the left; we can't expect him to be progressive if we don't apply some pressure.
So as I see it, he should be happy that we are pressuring him. FDR and LBJ couldn't have accomplished their progressive goals if there weren't people to their left demanding even more. But Obama is talking ? . Telling us to stop ? and get over it. Does he WANT a primary challenge? I mean, he can't even acknowledge that our frustration is legitimate?
Now I admit, I never ran a monumentally successful campaign like Obama '08, but when your base is unenthusiastic about turning out to vote, I don't see how "just ? and do it" is a good message.
So as I see it, he should be happy that we are pressuring him. FDR and LBJ couldn't have accomplished their progressive goals if there weren't people to their left demanding even more. But Obama is talking ? . Telling us to stop ? and get over it. Does he WANT a primary challenge? I mean, he can't even acknowledge that our frustration is legitimate?
Now I admit, I never ran a monumentally successful campaign like Obama '08, but when your base is unenthusiastic about turning out to vote, I don't see how "just ? and do it" is a good message.
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He's confused as to what he should do, so the pressure is getting to him. Everyone has been to the point where they're so confused or ? off they yell at anyone.
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ThaChozenWun wrote: »He's confused as to what he should do, so the pressure is getting to him. Everyone has been to the point where they're so confused or ? off they yell at anyone.
I'm talking about prepared remarks. These aren't heat-of-the-moment outbursts. This is his strategy, and I'm not as much offended as I am shocked that he would try such a ? strategy. -
Could be he just got big headed, after his celebrity type cult following started maybe he thinks he's invincible and will win again not matter what. Maybe that's why he won't acknowledge the legitimacy of peoples frustrations, he believes in his head that he's done more than enough.
And people also like confidence in a leader, maybe he's trying too hard to be confident in his plans and future and is coming off as arrogant and not caring. -
Guess it's pretty tough to imagine what Obama's perspective looks like right now, but from a strategic standpoint it seems completely insane. If you shut up everyone to your left, the only voices remaining will be those to your right. Can't imagine he wants that.
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He fired Rahm and now he's got nothing smart to say or do.
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KTULU IS BACK wrote: »He fired Rahm and now he's got nothing smart to say or do.
Rahm was wack. I supported Obama's choice to make him Chief of Staff at first cause everyone was describing him like a guy who would hang Ben Nelson or Joe Lieberman off an 11th floor balcony until they agree to vote for a bill, but turns out he was just another lame former congressman. -
Rahm had that spine that democratic voters are always begging politicians to grow.
They threw him out because he was a big meanie.
Now Obama's eagle has no talons. -
rahm was just another centrist ? .
dudes image is a sham. -
WTF are you ? about? "talkin ? "? Where did this come from? Did I miss a HuffPo headline? ? please. I stay at DailyKos and trust me, they would be having seizures if he's been "talkin ? " to "progressives" lately. Okay? SEIZURES. I'm talking about the geniuses that get all upset because they're convinced that Obama is gonna "? Social Security" just because he's allowing that (doomed to be completely irrelevant) Deficit Commission to take place. I don't believe you, you need more people.KTULU IS BACK wrote: »Rahm had that spine that democratic voters are always begging politicians to grow.
No no no, you're supposed to hate Rahm and everything about him because he's a "centrist" from the DLC, stick to the scriptKTULU IS BACK wrote: »They threw him out because he was a big meanie.
Incorrect, he left because he wants to be Mayor of Chicago and the deadline for filing is next month.KTULU IS BACK wrote: »Now Obama's eagle has no talons.
No no no, you're supposed to hate Rahm and everything about him because he's a "centrist" from the DLC, stick to the script
Shootem, Bill Maher was basically talking to you @ 2:25
"You gotta grow up and realize that there's a difference between a disappointing friend and deadly enemy."shootemwon wrote: »Does he WANT a primary challenge?
...and then you say this. You know who your most likely Obama primary challenger is? Alan ? Grayson, buddy. Write that in stone. Man, I can barely stand you ? that just go "EVERYTHING OBAMA HAS DONE IS WACK BECAUSE IT DOESN'T GO FAR ENOUGH!!!". I was talkin with my liberal old head about this. He hates ya'll. *hates* liberals like you. Cuz its like....Gitmo, ok. Afghanistan, ok. State secrets, surveillance, ok. ? rights, absolutely. But no props for Health Care Reform? None? Because it didn't have a ? SYMBOLIC, SYMBOLIC, SYMBOLIC, WOULD BE NOTHING LIKE YOU IMAGINE IT, "Public Option"? No props for Financial Reform? Even though the Consumer Protection Agency now exists? Not even after he appointed Elizabeth Warren? Hey, wasn't that supposed to be CRUCIAL? And didn't he do it in a manner that puts her there for the length of his Presidency? No props? Fulfilling his campaign promise about Iraq? YES HE DID SAY 18 MONTHS AND THOUSANDS OF "NON-COMBAT" TROOPS DURING THE CAMPAIGN, SAID THE ? EVERY TIME. No props for deleting the Big Banks out of the Student Loan biz? And oh yeah, no props for PREVENTING A ? DEPRESSION? ? , man. That's why ol head can't stand your brand of "progressive". Because nothing is EVER good enough for ya'll it seems. Every accomplishment is a failure to ya'll.
Food for thought -
"Disillusionment with Roosevelt ran deepest and most dangerously on the left"
"Is not this trickery the hallmark of this Wall Street tool, this President who always stabs in the back while he embraces? How unctuous is his empty solicitude for the ragged, hungry children...with the ruthlessness of a devoted Wall Street lackey spending billions for war and profits and trampling on the faces of the poor."
^^^ - LOLOLOLOLOL Social Security Act is wack, son -
its over: 2012! wrote: »quit lying, you fake fucc...he's not confused. What he is, is exactly what Dr. Cornel West recently explained him as:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128933353
shouldn't you be calling Dr. West a ? that hates black people or something
edit: bitchNYGG!! -
its over: 2012! wrote: »quit lying, you fake fucc...he's not confused. What he is, is exactly what Dr. Cornel West recently explained him as:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128933353
I have alot of respect for Mr. West, but for one man to tell me what another man is thinking is ? .
EDIT : ? yo lank... bytchNIGG -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »I have alot of respect for Mr. West, but for one man to tell me what another man is thinking is ? .
EDIT : ? yo lank... bytchNIGG
True, but on the other hand to compare one's promises to one's actions is necessary. -
lexico cold wrote: »True, but on the other hand to compare one's promises to one's actions is necessary.
To promise you will do something without attaching a time frame to it results in no actions necessary until the time is right.
If he says he'll do it, just because it isn't done when you think it should be done doesn't mean it won't be. He's done a lot of ? people to realize or give credit for already, anyone who expected a completely new United States Of America in two Barrack terms let alone two years and still on the first term should be institutionalized. -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »To promise you will do something without attaching a time frame to it results in no actions necessary until the time is right.
If he says he'll do it, just because it isn't done when you think it should be done doesn't mean it won't be. He's done a lot of ? people to realize or give credit for already, anyone who expected a completely new United States Of America in two Barrack terms let alone two years and still on the first term should be institutionalized.
The problem is he did attch a time frame to certain promises... -
lexico cold wrote: »The problem is he did attch a time frame to certain promises...
drop em...... -
"I will begin to remove our troops from Iraq immediately. I will remove one or two brigades a month and get all of our combat troops out of Iraq within 16 months. The only troops I will keep in Iraq will perform the limited missions of protecting our diplomats and carrying out targeted strikes on al-Qaida."—10/02/07, Chicago
"Too often bills are rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them. As president, Obama will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days."
On July 17, 2007, Obama told the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, "The first thing I'd do as president is, is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing that I'd do." -
Swiffness chill the ? out you ? . You think I should being a ? a yes-man for Obama just because he's been kind of good? Well I disagree. Roosevelt's critics on the left enabled him to move to the left. If you continue to suck Obama's ? , you're not helping him get back on track.
Stop putting words in my mouth. I like Obama. I happen to have an opinion on his strategy of dissing his own disgruntled base weeks before an election. I think it's a ? strategy. -
shootemwon wrote: »Swiffness chill the ? out you ? . You think I should being a ? a yes-man for Obama just because he's been kind of good? Well I disagree. Roosevelt's critics on the left enabled him to move to the left. If you continue to suck Obama's ? , you're not helping him get back on track.
Stop putting words in my mouth. I like Obama. I happen to have an opinion on his strategy of dissing his own disgruntled base weeks before an election. I think it's a ? strategy.
Hey, I've never been called a ? on the internet before. ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED!
Alright, alright. I was venting on what I've seen on liberal blogs in general, hence the words in your mouth. When I see liberals REALLY fault him for not locking up Bush or making a token statement about deficit reduction or not magically passing Single Payer etc, I want to Nino Brown somebody off a bridge.
I've obviously been the staunchest Obama defender on the SL, but I'll at least admit that he has wiped his ass with (almost?) every Libertarian promise he made during the primaries. Worst of all, his handling of ? rights has been Machiavellian at best and evil at worst. (Seriously, if he appeals the DADT ruling instead of LETTING DADT END, ? need raise hell. Block his motorcades, disrupt his town halls. Boycott donating to Democrats. Get Lady Gaga and Ellen dissing him in public. And the next time he tries to pull dat "I'm a fierce advocate for LGBT" in a speech to a ? crowd, BOO HIM. BOO THE ? OUTTA HIM like the ? just walked onto Lincoln Financial Field in a Terrell Owens Cowboys jersey.)
Still, I don't know WTF you're talking about with him dissing the base as of late. Lank plz. Everything I've heard from him since Labor Day has been "We got some real ? done, The Republicans are still ? , GOTV GOTV GOTV!". I mean, Obama pretty much had Philly shut down on Sunday for a big GOTV rally with The Roots where he was pushing that message.
Finally, some of your criticism has been hateresque. Even Ktulu did a lil staleface @ your "Obama is a ? President" thread. And your history is off. Roosevelt's critics didn't enable him to move to the Left....he already DID his biggest Liberal reforms by '36 and these idiots were still ? at the man like he was Herbert Hoover. Hell, if Huey Long wasn't (thankfully) assassinated in 1935, FDR might've had a very serious primary challenge. Why? BECAUSE THAT DAMN FDR SOLD OUT TO WALL STREET AND THE BIG BANKS!!!! -
I'm surprised you haven't heard about the shots at the left coming from the WH. Obama saying something along the lines of liberals needing to get over their frustrations and step up. He let Biden be a bit more direct ("stop whining") I'll provide documentation this evening when I get home.
What I meant about FDR is that a vocal criticism from the left made him seem more mainstream. When conservatives are screaming "HE'S A ? !!!" Its a lot more effective if there are no actual communists to compare him to.
And to clarify, I'm not suggesting that there will be a serious primary challenger, just that Obamas behavior invites one. For the record, I want Obama to shape up, not have his presidency sunk by a serious primary challenge. -
Had a little time so here's a story about Obama and Biden's comments to the left:
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/09/obama-to-liberals-inexcusable-to-stay-on-election-sidelines/1
Obama says: "People need to shake off this lethargy, people need to buck up. Bringing about change is hard -- that's what I said during the campaign. It has been hard, and we've got some lumps to show for it. But if people now want to take their ball and go home, that tells me folks weren't serious in the first place. If you're serious, now's exactly the time that people have to step up."
One error on my part: I previously described these comments as "prepared remarks". This is actually an excerpt from a Rolling Stone interview.
I think Obama has it twisted. Yes, the Republicans are particularly bad this year and I'm going to vote. But we (liberals) don't owe ? to the President or the Democratic party. We've been good team players for a long time, while the GOP policies are constantly being dictated to them by Tea Partiers and the Christian Right. So right about now, the least Obama could do is address our grievances in a serious manner, not lecture us for still caring about the things we cared about when we elected him. The man spends all his political capital on a pointless goosechase for bipartisan support, but when people on the left (who unlike the Republicans, are willing to hear him out and be supportive) have a complaint, he's dismissive. -
By the way Swiff, I know one valid peeve of yours is constantly having to explain that Obama can't just decree his ideal policies into law independent of Congress, but did you catch this the other day?
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/10/05/daschle-interview/
According to Tom Daschle's new book, Obama made a secret agreement to take the Public Option "off the table". This was in July 2009, months before the Senate "killed" the public option. So can we please agree at this point that my longheld belief that Obama could have done more to fight for a public option is not completely imaginary. Not to mention this also means he lied when he kept insisting that he wanted Congress to include a public option. But I'll forgive him for lying if he owns up to it and takes a more respectful tone when talking to his liberal critics. Not gonna happen, I know. -
Swiffness! wrote: »Seriously, if he appeals the DADT ruling instead of LETTING DADT END
yea, so this happened literally 2 hours after i posted this smh -
Swiffness! wrote: »yea, so this happened literally 2 hours after i posted this smh
First rule of progress in the Obama era: Never write or speak out loud anything you do not want Obama to do, or he will do it.
Edit: Swiffness, after our initial harsh exchange, I was starting to like this discussion. Care to comment on either of the links I posted? -
woooooow did he really repeal it?
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In all seriousness, ? progressives............ they can all eat a ? ............
@t/s And the New Deal kept us in the Depression, it didn't pull us out............ we were pulled out of the depression by WWII from European countries buying arms and ? of that sort from us..........
Too bad we ended up becoming the world's policemen after WWII, what a damn shame......... we should stay out of other's conflicts because it never seems to create good results(save for the Korean War), anything after? ? naw......... Obama is right for pulling troops out........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4gXZzFnb9I
