Let's do some grown-up talk about "The Illuminati."

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  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    You're just going to continue to obfuscate and pretend that you didn't contradict yourself about the role of the UGLE, so I don't really feel the need to continue justifying my questions to you.

    Fact is, Freemasonry is being practiced by atheists. What this means to conspiracy theorists is what interests me.
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  • major pain
    major pain Members Posts: 10,293 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    KTULU IS BACK wrote: »
    You're just going to continue to obfuscate and pretend that you didn't contradict yourself about the role of the UGLE, so I don't really feel the need to continue justifying my questions to you.

    Fact is, Freemasonry is being practiced by atheists. What this means to conspiracy theorists is what interests me.

    I asked you to state where I contradicted it, you have yet to do so.

    Also, this is not a fact. The "style" of what they are doing is not Freemasonry.
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  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    Me and Shootem showed you where you contradicted yourself.

    Is there a way you can explain why an allegorical system of ethics requires a spooky deity without breaking your vow of secrecy or not? Because that's the only way we can take you seriously. Otherwise you're just going "Trust me, for no reason."
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  • major pain
    major pain Members Posts: 10,293 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    KTULU IS BACK wrote: »
    Me and Shootem showed you where you contradicted yourself.

    Is there a way you can explain why an allegorical system of ethics requires a spooky deity without breaking your vow of secrecy or not? Because that's the only way we can take you seriously. Otherwise you're just going "Trust me, for no reason."

    I've told you this before, many times. I dont understand why you are trying to get another answer you can agree with. I'm not asking you to agree, just to understand.

    Shootem was under the impression that I believe, if a lodge is not doing the exact things as the one I belong to its not right. I clarified that was not the case. Again there are some things that can be different, and there are some that cannot.

    Far as you are concerned. I've explained many things can cause a lodge to be deemed illegitimate. Recognition and legitimacy go hand in hand.
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  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    So you can't actually answer that question. Just say so, obtuse ? .
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  • major pain
    major pain Members Posts: 10,293 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    KTULU IS BACK wrote: »
    So you can't actually answer that question. Just say so, obtuse ? .

    You dont remember this same conversation? Where you state that its stupid to have a club that has to believe in ? to be moral. Then I clarify, that you dont have to believe in ? to be moral, but to join this club you have to believe in ? ? Then you will make some obscure reference to magic and old men in aprons and gloves.
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  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    You don't have to feel like you're backed into a corner here, B. Nobody's forcing you to post.
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  • major pain
    major pain Members Posts: 10,293 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    KTULU IS BACK wrote: »
    You don't have to feel like you're backed into a corner here, B. Nobody's forcing you to post.

    Oh please. Its not even that serious. I'm just telling you what's what.
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  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    No, you're claiming to know what's what without supporting that assertion.

    This is the problem inherent in taking oaths of secrecy. You will always appear to be a bullshitter.
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  • major pain
    major pain Members Posts: 10,293 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    KTULU IS BACK wrote: »
    No, you're claiming to know what's what without supporting that assertion.

    This is the problem inherent in taking oaths of secrecy. You will always appear to be a bullshitter.

    Yea.. and thats why I keep saying you wont accept an answer that I give. You're already predisposed to believing its not truthful.
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  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    If one of these French Freemasons came to you for assistance, would you have to turn him down because of his "illegitimate" lodge?
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  • major pain
    major pain Members Posts: 10,293 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    KTULU IS BACK wrote: »
    If one of these French Freemasons came to you for assistance, would you have to turn him down because of his "illegitimate" lodge?

    No, but then again, if someone truly needed my help, I'd help them regardless of their affiliations.
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  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    Fascinating. Claiming to be more moral while refusing to help people because they don't believe.
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  • major pain
    major pain Members Posts: 10,293 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    KTULU IS BACK wrote: »
    Fascinating. Claiming to be more moral while refusing to help people because they don't believe.

    Not once did I say I was more moral than anyone. Trying to be adult with you is pointless I see.
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  • Diablo Fresh
    Diablo Fresh Members Posts: 41
    edited November 2010
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    If a bunch of men want to sit around in lambskin, feel each other up in secrecy while worshipping some unknown ? is cool with you then hey live it up. Me personally I never understood the importance of these organizations anyway. Lower level masons might do some nice things for their communities but in the long run most organizations are going to be corrupted once you reach the higher levels. Most guys I've talked to that are Masons became masons for all the wrong reasons. Tradition, Promotion or financial gain, or to simply be able to flash that ring and get out of trouble. We forget ? forbid us to eat from the tree of knowledge and these organizations are feeding us the fruit everyday. Its that simple. It all boils down to whose side are you going to be on when the lord comes to rid the world of wickedness. The bible states a man can't serve two masters.
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  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    major pain wrote: »
    Not once did I say I was more moral than anyone. Trying to be adult with you is pointless I see.

    so by "we make good men BETTER" you mean something other than the well-known definition of those words, i guess
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  • major pain
    major pain Members Posts: 10,293 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    KTULU IS BACK wrote: »
    so by "we make good men BETTER" you mean something other than the well-known definition of those words, i guess

    Yea, better men for themselves. Not better than someone else. Are you just looking for something to criticize about the organization?
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  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    so its a self-esteem improvement program

    lol
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  • major pain
    major pain Members Posts: 10,293 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    KTULU IS BACK wrote: »
    so its a self-esteem improvement program

    lol

    So yea... I think we're done here.
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  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    are the prince hall secret handshakes more elaborate and showy?
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  • phantom0900
    phantom0900 Members Posts: 1,313 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    IMO from my research Illuminati are merely people who are attempting to grasp the big picture and either work towards making things better, or exactly how they see fit. You have illuminated people who love and live prosperously and try to spread that lifestyle, and you have illuminated people who like to take advantage and want to set themselves and like minded people into long term positions to maintain their idea of power. Its the same game since an alpha male and a priest class was put into position of power in mans simplest days. Its just so complex and vast now that you have people unknowingly working towards positive and negative illuminati goals.
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  • J_Buddah
    J_Buddah Members Posts: 10
    edited November 2010
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    ? forbid us to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and bad. Now that these are the rules of the game you have the option of choosing good or bad. That means that people are controlled by these secret societies because they let themselves be controlled. If you are in a secret society and you perform evil that is because you chose to perform evil. Think about that for a second. You have the option of performing good or evil.
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  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    J_Buddah wrote: »
    ? forbid us to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and bad. Now that these are the rules of the game you have the option of choosing good or bad. That means that people are controlled by these secret societies because they let themselves be controlled. If you are in a secret society and you perform evil that is because you chose to perform evil. Think about that for a second. You have the option of performing good or evil.

    Can I just ask you something?

    Did you READ the first post in this thread?
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  • rapluva
    rapluva Members Posts: 232 ✭
    edited November 2010
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    KTULU IS BACK wrote: »
    Hip Hop has always had a strong conspiracy-theorist strain. And that is okay. It makes for some interesting music.

    Problem is, a lot of these paranoid cats just do not educate themselves to the real facts. They run through Alex Jones' websites and they think they've become enlightened, ironically.

    So let me kick some true stories real quick and then I'll be willing to answer any and all questions you may have about the NWO 4 Lyfe, brother.



    1. There really was a secret society that called itself the Illuminati. In France in the 1770's, a group of deists got together and tried to figure out a way to get rid of the religious establishments and governments of Europe. This is a good thing. The old monarchies were brutal oppressive dictatorships. Deism was about as rebellious as you could get back then without getting executed for the crime of atheism.

    1a. So the Illuminati was based on the belief in ? . Not a specific ? , but a deity nonetheless. A beneficent creator ? that set up the laws of physics, shaped the universe, and then let it do its thing. So this is not a "Satanic" movement.

    1b. Their opponents were the extremely powerful Catholic church and the monarchies whose titles were tied to it. You know how monarchy works, right? People believed the king and his bloodline were allowed to reign because Jesus said so. It's called the Divine Right of Kings. It didn't start with Christianity, it's as old as dirt. But it's an irrational and obviously un-democratic system that basically enslaves most of the population. Why wouldn't you want that overthrown?



    2. Yeah, the guy who started the Illuminati joined the Freemasons. Oh no, old men in aprons and white gloves. Terrifying.

    2a. While traditional English/Scottish style Freemasons require their members to believe in a higher power, "Continental Freemasonry" in France and Germany has been allowing ATHEISTS to join since the early 1800's. So explain to me why a group of people dedicated to Satan, demons, and other spirits is going to allowing those annoying atheists in, with their skepticism and logic.

    2b. The Illuminati was crushed by the combined forces of the monarchies and the Catholic church. It ceased to exist. There is NO EVIDENCE that it successfully went into hiding or that anybody took its name.




    3. Capitalism. Capitalism. CAPITALISM.

    3a. You know why the world is the way it is? A perpetual struggle between people who work and people who own. The owners want as much work out of you as they can get while paying you as little as possible. The workers want as much money as possible for as little work as they can get away with. Read Marx. The ownership class will use any tactic available to keep you from realizing that they didn't earn and don't deserve their outrageous wealth. Religion, government, culture. Anything within reach.

    3b. These people do not exactly "control the world." That's not really possible. There's too many factors. And I know some of you believe that they have a secret weather control machine, but then again, some of you believe Ras Kass is a smart rapper.

    Then how do u explain Bill Clinton pretty much "predicting" the quake in Hati and it happening 6 months latter, let me take a quess, (It iz just a couincidence) FASTFOWARD and listen/read from 3:05 seconds threw 3:30 seconds; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf2HfV9cSzI&feature=related
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  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
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    Haiti has had tons of earthquakes. Everybody knew it was likely to happen again and that the country would need foreign help.
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