Colin Kaepernick refuses “to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people”...

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  • farris2k1
    farris2k1 Members Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    JJ_Evans wrote: »
    dnyce215 wrote: »
    NFL ratings are down from last year.

    Because of blacks protesting early in the season and because of the hurricanes that knocked people out of their homes in Texas, Florida, and other places in the South.

    Trump will take credit for it though.

    Nah, that ? been going down, ratings are down wit most tv period, quality of play/to many trash teams/other ways to watch are the main reasons for nfl, ppl saying they aint watching..most of that is ? , white and black, and the ones that do? Not enough to affect anything, im a huge fan but i cannot watch two ? teams play each other ? that
  • atribecalledgabi
    atribecalledgabi Members, Moderators Posts: 14,063 Regulator
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    Master P needs to kneel this one out

    I gave it a GOAT but idk what that would look like. I'm interested if they're serious about it tho
  • stringer bell
    stringer bell Members Posts: 26,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/bell/2017/10/18/jacksonville-jaguars-owner-shad-khan-donald-trump-jealous-of-nfl-amid-failure-buy-team/777910001/
    Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Khan: Donald Trump 'jealous of' NFL amid failure to buy team

    NEW YORK — Shad Khan thinks he knows the real reason Donald Trump is so obsessed with how the NFL does business.

    "This is a very personal issue with him," Khan, the Jacksonville Jaguars owner, told USA TODAY Sports on Wednesday as NFL owners wrapped up two days of meetings in Lower Manhattan.

    Trump, whose bid to buy the Buffalo Bills in 2014 failed, slammed one of his favorite punching bags again Wednesday, tweeting that the NFL is demonstrating “total disrespect” for the nation because it is not forcing players to stand for the national anthem.

    The league and its owners generally have had little public response to Trump, though New York Giants co-owner John Mara said, facetiously, “I’m shocked,” when asked for a response to the President's tweet. But Khan didn’t hold back.

    “He’s been elected President, where maybe a great goal he had in life to own an NFL team is not very likely,” said Khan, who bought the Jags in 2011 for $760 million. “So to make it tougher, or to hurt the league, it’s very calculated.”

    He reiterated a description he's used before in characterizing Trump, calling him “a divider, not a uniter.”

    Asked if he was aware of Trump insulting the widow of a Green Beret, LaDavid Johnson, during a phone call Tuesday when, according to Rep. Frederica Wilson, D-Fla., he told her, “He knew what he was signing up for,” Khan shook his head.

    “It’s so bad," said Khan, who had seen the news reports. "It’s below the lowest of the lowest expectations. It doesn’t sound rational. It’s bizarre.”

    Khan notes the irony of Trump accusing the NFL for a lack of patriotism and national pride while the President himself once again stands accused of great disrespect toward the family of a fallen soldier.

    “Let’s get real," Khan said. “The attacks on Muslims, the attacks on minorities, the attacks on Jews. I think the NFL doesn’t even come close to that on the level of being offensive. Here, it’s about money, or messing with — trying to soil a league or a brand that he’s jealous of.”

    Khan, a self-made billionaire who immigrated from Pakistan, contends that Trump’s flap with the NFL pales when compared to social issues, notably including Trump's proposed travel bans that target people from Muslim-majority nations.

    “That’s one aspect that you can imagine — someone is getting a visa that will change their life is from a Muslim-majority country — and, now, boom, that dream to change lives, they get locked out,” Khan said. “That’s a hell of a lot more significant than fighting some sponsors or people who want their money back because they’ve been riled up.”

    Interestingly, Khan was one of seven NFL owners (also: Jerry Jones, Robert Kraft, Stan Kroenke, Robert McNair, Dan Snyder and Woody Johnson) who donated significantly to Trump, providing $1 million to his inauguration fund.

    Regret that now?

    “I have no regrets in life,” said Khan, who founded a leading manufacturer of auto parts, and was intrigued by some of Trump's proposed economic policies.


    “This ugly, toxic side sours the whole experience,” Khan said.

    It’s too bad every owner isn’t as candid as Khan. NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell undoubtedly expressed the sentiment of many while contending the league wants to “stay out of politics.”

    Unfortunately, Trump, who profanely criticized protesting players during a rally last month and urged NFL teams to fire or suspend them, keeps the political link in play.

    One high-ranking league official, while mulling Trump, sounded like Los Angeles Chargers tackle Russell Okung, who recently told USA TODAY Sports that he likens Trump's outbursts to the so-called “Southern Strategy,” using the NFL to draw attention from more important matters that are unfavorable to Trump.

    Still, several owners have deeper ties to Trump than Khan, raising questions about their apparent willingness to overlook his approach to social issues, including some — such as police brutality and social inequality — that can be directly linked to player protests.

    Kraft, the New England Patriots owner, refused to comment on Trump when approached by USA TODAY Sports on Wednesday, contending it wasn’t the proper setting. Strange, considering that Kraft presented Trump with a Super Bowl LI ring this year.

    Last week, Trump declared during a Pennsylvania rally that Kraft urged him to gear tax cuts for the middle class rather than wealthy Americans.

    Kraft's relationship with the President goes back years, and he credits Trump for helping him cope with the death of his wife, Myra, in 2011. He may have talked taxes with Trump, but I wonder if Kraft has urged him to show more humanitarian concern for Hurricane-ravaged Puerto Rico or more contempt for white supremacist rallies.

    Jones, meanwhile, told USA TODAY Sports that he recently talked to Trump, who has praised the Dallas Cowboys owner for his controversial declaration that he won’t play any player who doesn’t stand for the anthem. Jones considers himself a Trump friend but refused to provide details except to say that he doesn’t agree with all of Trump’s positions. (You’d hope not.)

    Still, with Jones pushing the Trump doctrine on protesting players — rejected, incidentally, by other owners — it’s a bad look.


    Taking on Trump publicly has its political risks. But at least one owner, Khan, is willing to address any misperceptions.
  • Kwan Dai
    Kwan Dai Members Posts: 6,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I don't want Kaep to ever play again in the NFL. If Kaep was allowed back into the league I would like for him to be named head of the NFL's social awareness, activist initiative and given the opportunity to continue his work.
  • Undefeatable
    Undefeatable Members Posts: 1,970 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Kwan Dai wrote: »
    I don't want Kaep to ever play again in the NFL. If Kaep was allowed back into the league I would like for him to be named head of the NFL's social awareness, activist initiative and given the opportunity to continue his work.

    That's a ? up opinion to have. He wants to play, and he's good enough, and so he should be on a team.

    On top of that, think about what it would mean for future protests if he really does lose his NFL career over protesting.
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Master P needs to kneel this one out

    I gave it a GOAT but idk what that would look like. I'm interested if they're serious about it tho

    It can work.....only problem is where would they play?
    Owners. An colleges wont let them use stadiums.

    But ? going overseas is a whole demographic that's still untouched an they love anything American.
    just cant see it working without stadiums
  • ineedpussy
    ineedpussy Members Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    like i said use high school football fields and black college stadiums until we build our own ? . but ? was no signing me then. go figure. no poster
  • VulcanRaven
    VulcanRaven Members Posts: 18,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    ineedpussy wrote: »
    like i said use high school football fields and black college stadiums until we build our own ? . but ? was no signing me then. go figure. no poster

    That's fools gold. The NFL would block any outside league. Who going to play in a high school field when you can play in a pro stadium? How will they pay the players? Who will sponsor it? Who will go to the games? How will they pay quality coaches? How will they pay the medical staff and refs? Who will pay for travel and hotel expenses? Master P is blowing smoke. Vince McMahon already tried that ? and it failed. No player will play for some Master P league if they are good enough for the NFL or CFL.
  • VulcanRaven
    VulcanRaven Members Posts: 18,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Master P needs to kneel this one out

    I gave it a GOAT but idk what that would look like. I'm interested if they're serious about it tho

    It can work.....only problem is where would they play?
    Owners. An colleges wont let them use stadiums.

    But ? going overseas is a whole demographic that's still untouched an they love anything American.
    just cant see it working without stadiums

    Over sees would be possible but the NFL will make sure those games are not televised in America. Their sponsors would block it too.
  • 2stepz_ahead
    2stepz_ahead Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 32,324 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Master P needs to kneel this one out

    I gave it a GOAT but idk what that would look like. I'm interested if they're serious about it tho

    It can work.....only problem is where would they play?
    Owners. An colleges wont let them use stadiums.

    But ? going overseas is a whole demographic that's still untouched an they love anything American.
    just cant see it working without stadiums

    Over sees would be possible but the NFL will make sure those games are not televised in America. Their sponsors would block it too.

    man....let me tell you something.....fukk the american money.

    you ever seen the nfl in london?

    ? is packed. ? all the way on tv where i live. three countries over.

    these stadiums...the soccer/futbol stadiums are ? huge. they are the size of college football stadiums with 70-100k capacity.

    what a nfl stadium capacity? 80k for the biggest an just built dallas stadium?

    if they make that ? like soccer and travel around the world playing an pick up other countries teams....an have the advertising and merchandising......the ? could work and be very profitable. having ? making neymar money
  • stringer bell
    stringer bell Members Posts: 26,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
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    http://awfulannouncing.com/nba/charles-barkley-shaquille-oneal-kenny-smith-discuss-theyd-protest-current-nba-players.html
    Charles Barkley, Shaquille O’Neal, Kenny Smith discuss how they’d protest if they were current NBA players

    On Tuesday, the members of TNT’s Inside The NBA pregame show held a season opening conference call with the media. After being asked about how they think player protests and activism among players will be handled on and off the court this season, Awful Announcing posed an interesting question to former players Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith, and Shaquille O’Neal:

    If you were players in today’s NBA, how would you handle being active on social issues that are at the forefront of today’s sporting landscape?

    Straight off the bat, Barkley and O’Neal said they would both stand for the National Anthem, but Barkley said this issue needs to be about more than that.

    “What are we actually doing for our community? That’s all I really care about,” Barkley said. “Man, we gotta start putting our money where our mouth is.”

    Barkley suggested he would give back to his community and help more kids go to college rather than just sit around and talk about being socially active. He also said the media is handling this issue poorly, in part because they care too much about who’s standing and who is not for the Anthem.

    “I’m just so sick of the media hijacking this conversation because they need something to talk about every day,” Barkley said. “Man, let’s start doing. Stop talking.”

    On kneeling during the National Anthem, O’Neal said that many people are just going to tune you out solely because they believe it’s disrespectful to the flag.
    “When you do it at a moment during the National Anthem— and I know people say it’s not about the flag, and I believe that it’s not about the flag— but when you do it in that moment, there’s a large majority of people that say you are disrespecting the flag and they won’t even listen to your conversation,” O’Neal said.

    The only way to go about protesting, the trio of former players agreed, was in a peaceful and respectful way.

    “When you give people a choice to listen or not to listen, they’re always going to go to the excuse,” O’Neal said, stressing that many people who criticize National Anthem kneelers would immediately tune out or discount an opinion or cause because of this. “‘If you disrespect the flag, I’m not gonna listen to you.’”

    O’Neal “would try to do it much bigger” by holding large press conferences, like past sports icons who were successful at social activism.

    “When I always look at the photos of Jim Brown, Muhammad Ali, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, they held a press conference and they made their case known. I would do it like that,” O’Neal said. “Because when you do it like that, respectfully, people have no choice but to listen.”

    Smith took a more analytical and cerebral approach to the question, saying that the first thing he would do as an NBA player today would be to educate himself on all the important issues of the day. Some of those issues, Smith said, he didn’t need to be educated on, having grown up in the inner cities of Queens, New York and knowing those life lessons first hand.

    “The reality is that there’s an issue in the inner cities of America that is not being addressed,” Smith said, beginning an honest and frank discussion of why he would seriously consider openly protesting if he were an NBA player today. This issue won’t be a problem solved by just throwing money at it, he said.

    “It’s a collective thought that’s perpetuated by a certain group of people that won’t allow any amount of finances to change or allow any amount of finances to make change,” Smith said. “So to me, it’s about changing the mindset, or acknowledging that there’s a mindset of people that are prejudicial towards minorities in America.”

    Making it known and publicized that this prejudicial mindset exists, Smith said, is the root of why these player protests are taking place altogether, and why some players feel it’s necessary to kneel for the National Anthem, or lock arms, or raise their fists, or wear sneakers on national television that say “Equality,” like LeBron James did on Tuesday night.

    “Until that is consistently addressed, no matter how much money you throw at it, it doesn’t matter,” Smith said. “And it is about bringing awareness to it in any shape, form or fashion, as long as it’s peaceful. So that’s what I feel.”

    Kenny once again proves he’s the only real one on that show...
  • stringer bell
    stringer bell Members Posts: 26,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2mdSOXk4lc

    https://www.mediaite.com/online/fox-news-trish-regan-erupts-at-guest-over-nfl-anthem-debate-thats-a-bunch-of-baloney/
    Fox Business’ Trish Regan Erupts at Guest Over NFL Anthem Debate: ‘That’s a Bunch of Baloney!’

    Things got very heated during a Fox News panel about the ongoing NFL anthem controversy.

    Horace Cooper — co-chair of Project 21, a network of black conservatives — said that NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, who said that players “should” stand during the National Anthem, made an “incomplete pass” on the issue. In Cooper’s view, the American people “made it very clear” that they “reject” the kneeling and now the trend of falling support for the NFL will continue.

    Meanwhile, civil rights attorney Leo Terrell disagreed, pointing to people who “get a beer” from the kitchen or “run and get a hot dog” during the Anthem. Fox News guest host Trish Regan dismissed Terrell’s argument because these players “are working for a team owner” who “ultimately has the right” to decide whether or not to allow kneeling.

    “Is Roger Goodell so afraid of those players?” Regan asked. “Are the team owners so afraid of those players walking off the field that they are allowing them to basically thumb their nose at the American public?”

    Cooper responded by saying that “a few bad eggs” may “ruin a multi-billion dollar industry.”

    “They can’t even give us a specific and detailed outline of their critique,” Cooper elaborated. “If they want to have that, they can do it on their time.”

    Terrell then accused President Donald Trump of “hijacking” this issue to make it about patriotism and reiterated the many people that “go to the kitchen” during the anthem.

    “That’s a bunch of baloney!” Regan said. “I’ll tell you one thing, every single time I hear the national anthem anyway — every single time I sing the national anthem — I get goosebumps and I feel very privileged and very honored to have grown up in this country with all the opportunities I have had. And you know what? You’re pretty ? lucky if you’re out there collecting a pretty nice paycheck working for the NFL. Shouldn’t you honor that opportunity?”

    “You know what makes this country great?” Terrell asked. “People have the right to have a different opinion… Is there racial injustice in this country?”

    “Well, why is that an issue that suddenly is creeping into football?” Regan shot back.

    She also slammed Goodell and the NFL for their “inconsistencies” regarding domestic violence and concussions.

    “If Roger Goodell and the NFL and the team owners actually cared about their players, they would have been out in front of all these issues,” Regan continued. “They were nowhere to be found. You know why? It didn’t matter economically… A paycheck does matter and ultimately is probably going to be what decides this when ratings keep going down.”


    Another privileged saltine woman telling black folks how they should protest...
  • stringer bell
    stringer bell Members Posts: 26,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/dems-demand-pence-refund-taxpayers-publicity-stunt-football
    Dems Demand Pence Refund Taxpayers For ‘Costly Publicity Stunt’ At NFL Game

    A group of Democratic representatives asked Vice President Mike Pence to repay taxpayers for a trip he took to an Indianapolis Colts game that he walked out of when players knelt for the national anthem, a move that President Trump essentially confirmed was a preplanned stunt.

    Spearheaded by Reps. Ruben Gallego (D-AZ) and Ted Lieu (D-CA), the Democrats claim the “costly publicity stunt” was “employed by the Trump-Pence reelection campaign for the purpose of soliciting donations” because the campaign quickly used the scene to rally its base.

    Additionally, members of Pence’s press pool were advised to stay in their cars and were told there might be an “early departure,” the letter said.

    “This strongly suggests that your truncated visit was not a spontaneous act of protest — as you have sought to portray it — but was instead a premeditated act conducted solely for the purpose of generating publicity. In fact, President Trump confirmed as much when he posted on Twitter that he told you beforehand to stage this protest if any players kneeled,” according to the letter, which was signed by Gallego, Lieu, as well as Reps. Pramila Jayapal (D-WA), Jamie Raskin (D-MD) and Brendan Boyle (D-PA).

    Requesting documents about his travel and communications between Pence and the Trump-Pence campaign, the members of Congress said the American people “deserve to know” how many taxpayer dollars were spent on the trip and whether the campaign knew about it ahead of time, “at the very least.”

    But, in order to “preserve the integrity” of Pence’s office, the Democrats also urged Pence to reimburse the Department of the Treasury for the full cost of the trip.

    “The health of the democracy requires that taxpayer funding is not used for campaign purposes,” they wrote. “Again, given the appearance of serious impropriety in this matter, we request that you instruct the Trump-Pence campaign to immediately reimburse the Treasury for the full cost of your wasteful, unnecessary trip to Indianapolis.”

    Pence’s spokesperson did not immediately respond to TPM’s requests for comment.
  • stringer bell
    stringer bell Members Posts: 26,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/356401-trump-launches-national-anthem-petition-in-latest-swipe-at-nfl
    Trump launches national anthem petition in latest swipe at NFL

    President Trump is urging supporters to sign a petition declaring that they believe in standing for the national anthem — his latest effort to put pressure on the NFL over players who kneel in protest during the anthem.

    "The President has asked for a list of supporters who stand for the National Anthem. Add your name below to show your patriotism and support," says the petition by the Trump Make America Great Again Committee, a fundraising group.

    The petition was also promoted by the Republican National Committee on Twitter and its website. It does not say how many signatures it has garnered so far.

    The petition came days after NFL team owners, executives and players met in New York, where they decided that the league would not implement a rule forcing players to stand for "The Star-Spangled Banner."

    NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said after the meeting that, while players are encouraged to stand for the anthem, there would be no formal rule making it mandatory for them to do so.

    Goodell said he understood the concerns of the players — who are seeking to draw attention to racial injustice and police brutality — but he hopes the league can bring the total number of protesters down to zero.

    The decision came amid a prolonged feud between Trump and the NFL that began last month when he called on football teams to fire players who took a knee. The demonstrations began last year with former San Francisco quarterback Colin Kaepernick, who has been unable to find a new team after leaving the 49ers.

    The president has called the protests disrespectful, and has urged supporters to walk out of games when players kneel during the anthem. Vice President Pence did so at an Indianapolis Colts game this month — a move that Trump said was at his urging.

    After the NFL's decision not to implement a rule on the matter, Trump criticized the league once again in a pair of tweets, saying that the refusal was "too much talk, not enough action."

    "The NFL has decided that it will not force players to stand for the playing of our National Anthem," he wrote. "Total disrespect for our great country!"


  • northside7
    northside7 Members Posts: 25,739 ✭✭✭✭✭
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  • stringer bell
    stringer bell Members Posts: 26,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    http://thebiglead.com/2017/10/20/jerry-jones-sat-through-the-national-anthem-with-elizabeth-taylor-during-his-first-game-as-owner-of-the-cowboys/
    Jerry Jones Sat Through the National Anthem With Elizabeth Taylor During His First Home Game as Owner of the Cowboys

    Jerry Jones started the season with the hollow look-at-me gesture of kneeling with the entire Dallas Cowboys team before the playing of the National Anthem. Since then he had multiple phone calls with Donald Trump and has decided that any player who dare exercise his Constitutional right to protest would be punished. Disrespecting the flag in Dallas will not be tolerated under any circumstances. Unless you’re chatting with Elizabeth Taylor

    jerry-jones-lettter-to-the-editor.jpg

    That is from a 1989 letter to the editor in the Star-Telegram. It resurfaced last August when Colin Kaepernick’s kneeling originally became a story. This disrespectful, letter-inspiring act likely took place during Jerry Jones’ first home game as Cowboys owner so you can forgive him if he didn’t know what he was supposed to do during the Anthem.

    Still, the idea that Jerry Jones, the owner of America’s Team, would ever disrespect the flag is confounding. It was just two weeks ago that he was fielding calls from Donald Trump about the issue and would bench any player who disrespects the flag. What if a celebrity is on the sideline? Is that a reasonable exception for Cowboys players? Or is this simply more proof that the NFL and it’s owners don’t actually care about respecting the flag?

    Note: Jerry Jones first regular season game as owner of the Cowboys was on the road. The article originally said this happened during his first game as owner.
  • stringer bell
    stringer bell Members Posts: 26,212 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
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    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/david-irving-to-test-jerry-jones-national-anthem-policy-i-have-made-a-call/
    David Irving to test Jerry Jones' national anthem policy: 'I have made a call'

    Irving plans to demonstrate in some way as a protest against police brutality and racial injustice

    Dallas Cowboys defensive lineman David Irving appears to be getting ready to test Jerry Jones' national anthem policy.

    "I have made a call," Irving said, per the Forth Worth Star-Telegram. "You'll just have to wait till Sunday."

    Irving raised his fist in a display of protest against policy brutality and racial injustice after the national anthem was played prior to the Cowboys' Week 5 game, and apparently plans to demonstrate in some way again this Sunday when the Cowboys take on the 49ers. He said he received favorable feedback from fans after his Week 5 fist-raising, despite the fact that many Cowboys fans appear to be against demonstrations or protests before, during, or after the national anthem.

    "I've had way more support," Irving said. "I'm not disrespecting the flag. I really haven't gotten anything negative. It's all positive."

    That could change in the future, because ahead of the Cowboys' Week 6 bye, Jerry Jones said that any player that disrespects the flag will not play. Jerry demurred on whether raising a fist at the end of the anthem -- as Irving (and Damontre Moore) did in Week 5 -- qualifies as disrespect, but said, "If there is anything disrespecting the flag, then we will not play," per the Dallas Morning News. "Period. We're going to respect the flag and I'm going to create the perception of it."
    Jones now believes -- having been told by the president that it was the case -- that there is actually a rule requiring players to stand for the national anthem. However, NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy told FactCheck.org that players are not required to stand for the anthem. That fact was reinforced this week when owners and players met to discuss the national anthem policy, player protests, and several other social issues and came away not having changed anything regarding the lack of a requirement to stand during the anthem, but instead endorsing criminal justice legislation and deciding to finance an activism bootcamp.

    Irving's said his demonstration at the end of the anthem is neither about disrespect for the flag nor about the comments made by the president that NFL teams should "fire" any "sons of b-" that kneel during the anthem, but rather about police brutality and racism. "Before Trump was here we've been having these problems," Irving said.

    Asked by reporters whether he expects negative feedback after whatever happens on Sunday, Irving said, in keeping with other players that have protested or otherwise demonstrated before, during or after the anthem, "I hope not since it's not about the flag in the first place, you know?"

    How Jones reacts to whatever Irving does will be interesting to watch. He made a point of saying that any player, even Dak Prescott or Ezekiel Elliott, would not be allowed to play if they violated his policy on the anthem. (It's difficult to say what he considers a violation. It was never made specific, but it can be assumed given the general attitudes around the subject, that kneeling or sitting during the anthem probably qualifies.)

    Cowboys players were reportedly angered by Jones' public hard-line stance, and the team had a meeting with Jones about it during the bye week. They mostly declined to talk about what was said during the meeting, but Irving apparently emerged determined to demonstrate in some fashion this weekend.

    Irving is an incredibly important player for the Cowboys. The clear weakness of their team is the pass rush, and though DeMarcus Lawrence has been an absolute monster this season, Irving was clearly the team's best defensive lineman last season, when Lawrence was alternately injured and ineffective.

    We know Jones would do anything to win, but we also know he would do anything to project the appearance of total control. Depending on what Irving's specific actions are on Sunday, those two desires could come into conflict with one another.