The Ugly Truth.......Biggie most likely would not be where Jay-Z's at if he lived
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you never kno...and besides most rap acts are done after like 6 years.....now, i think big couldve been around dor a while becuz he had the formula to do so....now i dont kno bout selling major records 20 years later....n stop with the jay-z wouldnt be popping ? , i couldnt see anything stopping that pop crowd from singing that annie chorus
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rapmastermind wrote: »Washington_Red wrote: »Not to take anything away from BIG, but if he didnt die theres nothing guaranteeing that Puff wouldnt have pushed him into tax write-off territory. Maybe his label outside of Bad Boy wouldve worked. Maybe not. People always forget that Puff, love him or hate him, made BIG a commercial success by making him rework his rhymes to be less edgy.
This is what you aren't understanding. Biggie had his own Label outside of Bad Boy, no matter what Diddy did, Biggie was already running a successful label outside of Bad Boy. Junior Mafia and Lil Kim albums had certifications from LP's and singles therefor regardless if Diddy tried to ? Big, He had another label to go to. Also Big was so talented that even if he left Bad Boy, he would of had no problem getting another deal.
Everybody was going plat in the 90's. Not sure what you mean about BIG having another label to go to. What if Puff shelved him as a solo artist? Are you saying Puff didnt own his contract? -
Washington_Red wrote: »rapmastermind wrote: »Washington_Red wrote: »Not to take anything away from BIG, but if he didnt die theres nothing guaranteeing that Puff wouldnt have pushed him into tax write-off territory. Maybe his label outside of Bad Boy wouldve worked. Maybe not. People always forget that Puff, love him or hate him, made BIG a commercial success by making him rework his rhymes to be less edgy.
This is what you aren't understanding. Biggie had his own Label outside of Bad Boy, no matter what Diddy did, Biggie was already running a successful label outside of Bad Boy. Junior Mafia and Lil Kim albums had certifications from LP's and singles therefor regardless if Diddy tried to ? Big, He had another label to go to. Also Big was so talented that even if he left Bad Boy, he would of had no problem getting another deal.
Everybody was going plat in the 90's. Not sure what you mean about BIG having another label to go to. What if Puff shelved him as a solo artist? Are you saying Puff didnt own his contract?
I'm saying that by him being a CEO on a side label outside of Bad Boy, he would of have no problem getting his music out even if he had to buy his contract out of Puff. Again, "Born Again" was going to be a Triple LP and Big's contract with Bad Boy was done after that album. Also everyone wasn't going Plat in the 90's only the main and popular artist. Big was one of them, before him in 94, only LL Cool J was the only solo rapper from NY to go Platinum and that was from the "momma said knock you out" LP in the early 90's, NYC was going through a huge sales drought before Biggie came through. Again People don't understand the business moves Big had already made before his death. Puffy did not own Biggie like people like to think, the fact Diddy even allowed Big to have a side label and break Lil Kim and Junior Mafia was proof that Biggie had power in that relationship.
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^ Okay. Appreciate you coming thru and dropping knowledge. I still think Jay had an advantage by putting his own money up to run a label, but I can see I need to do some more research on the moves BIG was making.
Why didnt Lance continue to make moves after BIG died? -
Washington_Red wrote: »^ Okay. Appreciate you coming thru and dropping knowledge. I still think Jay had an advantage by putting his own money up to run a label, but I can see I need to do some more research on the moves BIG was making.
Why didnt Lance continue to make moves after BIG died?
Lance did continue after Big died. But the Jay Z Stabbing and money issues caused the label to fold some 3 years after Big's death. Cam'ron 1st album were dropped on Lance and Big's label (Biggie got Cam deal before his death). Carli Baltimore debut album was also on the label but was shelfed when Lance gave up on the label cause without Big it was hard to keep the label going. Undes went out of business and Atlantic took all the artist. It's sad cause what people overlook was Big was building an Empire outside of Bad Boy. I mean the Commission LP was going to be the next album on his label, sad he didn't get to let that label grow.
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listen, biggie paved the way, jayz rode that ? . but just like brooklyn paved the way, other cities took it farther. biggie woulda not been where jayz is at
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rapmastermind wrote: »People also have to remember, Big's death didn't just affect Jay's Path. It affect Puffy and his label, it affected Kim's and Junior Mafia, it effected Hip Hop Period. But Jay was clearly in Biggie's plans for the future. I don't know why people seem to overlook the fact that Biggie's co-sign helped Jay get a lot of Biggie's fans to drift over to him. That's why he went from Platinum in 97 to 5x Platinum in 98, a percentage of those 5 million fans were Biggie's fan who came to him after Big co-signed him heavily during the last year of his life. Also Jay Z bit Big's album formula's and even admitted that "Vol 1 and Hard Knock Life" were influenced by Biggie. Overall Jay success can clearly be linked to Biggie and his death, the evidence is overwhelming. Also Biggie business empire was already taking shape at the time of his death. Remember, THE COMMISSION album was going to be on Big's label, no Jay's. Biggie was the leader of the Commission not Jay.
no disrespect...but you keep talking about what Big was supposed to do, what he had in store.
Jay was doing that ? already. Big was around for 3 years. 3 years in, Jay already had all of that ? going. I think Hov was more of a hustler than Big.
Also, stars who come out the game with a classic album don't have long careers, or aren't as popular as their career goes on. They spend the rest of their career chasing that high. Look to Nas, 50 Cent, Snoop & whoever else applies. ? who take a while to get hot (read: Jay-Z, Ross, Pac, whoever else applies) do better in the long run.
oh yea....LOL @ Jay not blowing up. If it wasn't Hard Knock Life, it would've been Big Pimpin, if it wasn't Big Pimpin, it would've been Give it 2 Me. -
Lol you name drop nas, snoop and 50 and all 3 of them are still around.
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50 sold 12 million records before. He struggles with release dates now.
Snoop had the world in his palm in 93. He's a parody of himself now.
Nas cant drop an album without it being compared to Illmatic.
That's my point. Biggie would be one of those dudes. -
no disrespect but jay had no choice but to hustle/promote/market/strategize his way into stardom, his talent was widely overlooked, nobody gave a ? about a jigga in 96 ...
the question is why do people think jigga would be relevent if biggie would of never passed ? nobody gave a damn about jigga when biggie was here, accept for those who act as if reasonable doubt was trending in 96 ....
the truth is that the passing of biggie helped jay, he took dudes whole aura and if biggie would of not died jigga would of had no swag to jack .....
besided biggie was a phenom, a natural presence on the mic, jigga aged 15 years while stressfully trying get noticed as a mc ....
so yea if biggie the natural was still here, jigga would be relevant but not on the level of biggie ... -
no disrespect but jay had no choice but to hustle/promote/market/strategize his way into stardom, his talent was widely overlooked, nobody gave a ? about a jigga in 96 ...
the question is why do people think jigga would be relevent if biggie would of never passed ? nobody gave a damn about jigga when biggie was here, accept for those who act as if reasonable doubt was trending in 96 ....
the truth is that the passing of biggie helped jay, he took dudes whole aura and if biggie would of not died jigga would of had no swag to jack .....
besided biggie was a phenom, a natural presence on the mic, jigga aged 15 years while stressfully trying to noticed as a mc ....
so yea if biggie the natural was still here, jigga would be relevant but not on the level of biggie ...
i dont see how thats a diss... -
50 sold 12 million records before. He struggles with release dates now.
Snoop had the world in his palm in 93. He's a parody of himself now.
Nas cant drop an album without it being compared to Illmatic.
That's my point. Biggie would be one of those dudes.
When is Ross album dropping?
Didn't blueprint 3 and watch the throne get pushed back a few times before it finally got released?
50, nas and snoop is seeing at least gold in this current climate. Very few stars can sell platinum these days.
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Sorry breh. ? don't just become HNIC by luck. The ? always had that drive. Big wouldn't let Jay become a star but, 50 took over hip hop in 2003 when Jay was supposed to be that dude, right? It would've went the same with Jay & Big. This ? is like saying Kobe would've never became Kobe as long as Shaq was around, like this ain't one of the most driven ? in the history of the sport we're talking about.
Assuming Big didn't die & Bad Boy had even more of a hell of a year, as they did with Harlem World, No Way Out & Life After Death all coming out..........wouldn't that have just sped up the time to when ? got tired & sick of "Shiny Suits"? ? would've been nodding to Get at Me Dog and Hard Knock Life just like they did because it was a change in sound.
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rapmastermind wrote: »Washington_Red wrote: »^ Okay. Appreciate you coming thru and dropping knowledge. I still think Jay had an advantage by putting his own money up to run a label, but I can see I need to do some more research on the moves BIG was making.
Why didnt Lance continue to make moves after BIG died?
Lance did continue after Big died. But the Jay Z Stabbing and money issues caused the label to fold some 3 years after Big's death. Cam'ron 1st album were dropped on Lance and Big's label (Biggie got Cam deal before his death). Carli Baltimore debut album was also on the label but was shelfed when Lance gave up on the label cause without Big it was hard to keep the label going. Undes went out of business and Atlantic took all the artist. It's sad cause what people overlook was Big was building an Empire outside of Bad Boy. I mean the Commission LP was going to be the next album on his label, sad he didn't get to let that label grow.
I don't know who's giving you "wack" cause everything you are dropping are facts... with that being said... Big did pave the way for jay and no doubt what jay has done with it is incredible but he didn't invent the formula
Now to answer the original question there is no saying what would have happened if Big was still alive today or even if Jay would be in a different position but Big did have a business mind from the get and said he wanted to move onto corporate things even before rtd dropped
Just saying... -
50 sold 12 million records before. He struggles with release dates now.
Snoop had the world in his palm in 93. He's a parody of himself now.
Nas cant drop an album without it being compared to Illmatic.
That's my point. Biggie would be one of those dudes.
When is Ross album dropping?
Didn't blueprint 3 and watch the throne get pushed back a few times before it finally got released?
50, nas and snoop is seeing at least gold in this current climate. Very few stars can sell platinum these days.
you ask any artist which career he'd prefer.
selling 8 million records on his first album v.s. going gold first then becoming a star as time goes on.
dropping a classic right out the gate is more of a curse than a gift. -
EDIT: I just seen rapmasterminds post got dayum that ? shut the game down.....
Good Look, I'm glad the OP called this thread "The Ugly Truth" cause someone can't handle Biggie's huge influence on what Jay Z has become today.angrymaninc wrote: »rapmastermind wrote: »Washington_Red wrote: »^ Okay. Appreciate you coming thru and dropping knowledge. I still think Jay had an advantage by putting his own money up to run a label, but I can see I need to do some more research on the moves BIG was making.
Why didnt Lance continue to make moves after BIG died?
Lance did continue after Big died. But the Jay Z Stabbing and money issues caused the label to fold some 3 years after Big's death. Cam'ron 1st album were dropped on Lance and Big's label (Biggie got Cam deal before his death). Carli Baltimore debut album was also on the label but was shelfed when Lance gave up on the label cause without Big it was hard to keep the label going. Undes went out of business and Atlantic took all the artist. It's sad cause what people overlook was Big was building an Empire outside of Bad Boy. I mean the Commission LP was going to be the next album on his label, sad he didn't get to let that label grow.
I don't know who's giving you "wack" cause everything you are dropping are facts... with that being said... Big did pave the way for jay and no doubt what jay has done with it is incredible but he didn't invent the formula
Now to answer the original question there is no saying what would have happened if Big was still alive today or even if Jay would be in a different position but Big did have a business mind from the get and said he wanted to move onto corporate things even before rtd dropped
Just saying...
It's all good, I'm sure someone is just mad at what I was saying cause the reality is Jay owes some of his success to Biggie and manybe some hard core Jay fans don't want to admit that. I'm one of Jay Z day 1 fans, I copped Reasonable Doubt in Summer 96 when I was 16. But even as a big Jay fan I can see that Biggie was a huge influence on the Jay we know today. Jay's blueprint is alined with Biggie than anyone else. So dudes can say i'm catching "Feelings" or give me "Wack", it won't chance what Biggie is to Jay. This is why Jay Z can't keep his lyrics out his mouth and this is why Jay Z has continued to mentioned Big's legacy every step of the way of his raise to the top. -
Man all of this is ? . No one will know what would have happened and no one ever will. Big was just 24 years old when he died.
By the time he would have been 35 so many things have changed in the world that damn near every scenario is a possibility. He could have become the undisputed GOAT. He could have become a ? without a deal that no one cared about no more. He could have become the owner of Slim Fast.
No one will ever know thats the ? up part when a man dies so young....So stop with the fantasies smh
True, seems like the T/S is looking to far into it.
Big did have a label with Un so who knows how that would've turned out.
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