Who Do You Think Made The Bigger Impact Of Their Own Genre: Kurt Cobain or Tupac Shakur

plocc wrote: »

Im gonna put it like this. Pac is known more for what he did out of the studio and off stage,

stop reading after this quote

so the people in germany build a statue of pac cause what he did out the studio and off stage? FOH. u gotta b droppin classics for people 2 care like that

SuperstarCole wrote: »

Pac aint drop no classic. Get the ? out of here.

still mad pac took over nyc in 96?

Dear mama
So many tears
California love
Keep ya head up
Brendas gotta baby
...this guy that you speak of in which you say has no classics, those are all his songs, that are not only hiphop classics..but cultural classics as well, so do us all a favor and another method of speaking out of the ass

Your fallible opinion is starting to catch a ? odor

jono wrote: »

One of the problems with this topic is people on a hip-hop website generally have little knowledge of anything outside hip-hop and even less knowledge about an artist that died a long time ago that wasn't a rapper.

A lot of people have boiled this down to a popularity contest (which 2Pac would win easily against anyone because of the tremendous cult of personality built around him) and its not about IMPACT or actual INFLUENCE anymore.

I haven't seen anyone explain how Pac changed hip-hop. Out of all these years nobody, not one person has explained how 2Pac changed hip-hop or what the hell he added to it.

If you got to a rock site and talk about Cobain they can atleast name some legitimate accomplishments Nirvana had, you come to a hip-hop site and nobody can say how 2Pac changed the game? Maybe its because of ignorance, maybe its because he didn't (and he didn't).

As long as this is a popularity contest and not a real discussion on impact and influence its useless doing this. You could exchange Cobain with anyone and get the same reaction Pac vs The Beatles, Pac vs Jimi Hendrix, Pac vs Duke Ellington etc etc the reality is the same, the little knowledge of anyone other than 2Pac and his cult of personality that inflates everything he did beyond context.

Tupac did a few movies all of a sudden he's Denzel Washington, Tupac wrote poems so he's better than Maya Angelou...its just ridiculous.

Lmao damn man you are just shutting down this thread. Lol at the Maya Angelou comment. But seriously though alot of Pac's poetry was very good.

But I definitely see what you are saying. Like I said before I love his music but I have found that there are long periods of time that I purposely take a break from listening to his music because sometimes after reading all the annoying hero worship on urban hip hop websites, it gives me a headache.

It's not so much liking his music, because as a fan of music you can listen to whoever you want to and enjoy as much songs by that artist as you want. The problem is that they constantly dance around his FLAWS and the silly things that he did.

We got people on hip hop forums that spoke about how he was so real and made an impact because he did passionate things like spitting in the face of a cameraman who never even provoked him......I mean seriously get the ? out of here with that nonsense.

The answer to the thread question is easily Kurt Cobain/Nirvana.

Jdilla26 wrote: »

? fans of Cobain and 2pac felt they were visionaries, genius, and a Messiah of epidemic proportions. Objectively, we don't know if either artist would prove to be such a genius over time. Whose to say that had either or both artists lived, we wouldn't think of them as washed-up has-beens now?

What makes them similiar died near the height of their popularity. It's easy to remember them as great.

plocc wrote: »

Im gonna put it like this. Pac is known more for what he did out of the studio and off stage, while Kurt is known for what he did musically in the studio and onstage. I've never heard anybody say Pac put on a great show. And quit talking bout Pac selling 5 mil in 2 months. It was a double cd and the Thug Life album was pure trash except for the classic, "Straight Ballin". A lotta people put Pac on a pedestal because he was like that one wild, charismatic dude that exists in every neighborhood in every urban area of this country. So in some aspect he's like that cool, dead ? , that we pour out liquor, and get tatoos for. I am a fan of his music but im not dillusional and i aint deifying any rapper, or rocker but I will give credit when its due. Nobody's reply is right or wrong. They're only opinions, and mines is strictly about their impact musically. Tupac's biggest impact is the Thug Life image, while not actually being a thug. Cobain might not have invented grunge, but he lived it. He was the Run-Dmc of grunge. He took it to another level.

Tommy bilfiger wrote: »

plocc wrote: »

Im gonna put it like this. Pac is known more for what he did out of the studio and off stage, while Kurt is known for what he did musically in the studio and onstage. I've never heard anybody say Pac put on a great show. And quit talking bout Pac selling 5 mil in 2 months. It was a double cd and the Thug Life album was pure trash except for the classic, "Straight Ballin". A lotta people put Pac on a pedestal because he was like that one wild, charismatic dude that exists in every neighborhood in every urban area of this country. Tupac's biggest impact is the Thug Life image, while not actually being a thug. Cobain might not have invented grunge, but he lived it. He was the Run-Dmc of grunge. He took it to another level.

Lmao son just dropped a factual sledgehammer on pac groupies heads
No sign on thuglife bein trash thats actually a decent album all eyez on me is super wacc tho

this nicca said All Eyes on me is garbage Really I know niccas entitled to they opinion but seriously

Bawse D.Lox wrote: »

alphajjc wrote: »

? damn it really can be annoying sometimes seeing people just follow Pac like blind groupies and can NEVER EVER admit flaws that he had.

Nas is my favorite rapper, but even I called him out on here with the whole Gwen Paltrow situation. I also like Pac but it just seems that people keep finding excuses for him.

What is the point of people bringing up album sales constantly?

We can't talk about "impact" without only bringing up album sales?

jono brought up a very good point when he spoke about how Pac technically sold out by moving from the social commentary music he did before in order to do gangsta rap. I never even thought about that before but its a great point.

Alot of us automatically assume that "selling out" means making pop songs but that does not always have to be the case

Pac sold out??
how???

? started Thug Life in 92'. ? been catching cases since 91'. when did this ? sold out???

was it in 93' ????, when he dropped songs like "Keep Ya HEad Up", "Papaz Song"?

or 95' ???? when he dropped songs like "Dear Mama", "Shed So Many Tears", "ME Agianst The WOrld" "Young ? "

or, All Eyez On Me???? when he had tracks like, "Only ? can Judge" "I Ain't Mad Atcha", "HEartz Of MEn"," Wonder Y They Call U ? ". "Shorty wanna be a thug"

or Mackaveli??? with songs like "Blasphemy", "White Mans World", "Hold Ya Head","Smile"*
even in "Hail Mary" had social commentary.

soooooooooooo when did he stray from his social commentary????

even in songs that came out after he died like "Baby Don't Cry", "Letter To The President" "TEar Drops and Closed Casket", "This ain't Living" etc etc. had social commentary.

it was alot less than what he did on 2pacalypse

That is the point I am making.

I am not saying that LITERALLY he never made social commentary songs again, I just said that it was alot less than when he first started.

By the way you cannot really say Hail Mary is a social commentary song

1st if you were born in the 90's I don't think you can really debate this. 2nd since I listen to all types of music, not just Hip Hop, I am fully aware of Kurt's legacy and I like some Nirvana songs. Clearly Kurt had a bigger impact on his genre cause he killed off the "Hair Bands" that ruled rock for the 80's. Also the fact that grunge music fell off after Kurt's death is proof of his overall Impact on his genre, they just haven't recovered from his death.

Pac's impact on Hip Hop can't be understated, he's easily Top 5 all time on everybody's list. He's also Top 5 all time total sales in Hip Hop History. He's one of rap's greatest song writers and skill wise, he wasn't the best in every category but as a complete emcee he was skillful. But Kurt changed rock on a larger scale. No Tupac LP had more impact than "Nevermind" did. Also Nirvana didn't have a lot of material, they prove Quality over Quanity. They only released 3 LP's a few EP's and a live album the rest is all compilations. Where as Pac has had over 10 LP's release. Again Rap hasn't been the best since Pac's death but it survived. Kurt Death ended his sub-genre of rock.

nobody listens to alternative music anymore. coldplay and radiohead are what white people listen to now

What the ? did tupac do to have an impact in Germany may I ask? Did that ? sprout up a revolution over there?

I think cats still miss the point. Nobody is saying Pac is wack or anything like that but there is a marked difference in his sound from 2Pacalypse Now to All Eyez On Me. He changed that ? up! And he had to because he had gotten surpassed by at least 90% of the ? he was dissing around that time.

Nas had dropped Illmatic and was heralded as the second coming of Rakim off ONE ALBUM! It took Pac 3 to get his buzz right.

Jay-Z was being co-signed by O.Gs like Jaz-O and Big Daddy Kane (even made an appearance on BDK's Daddy's Home album), granted Jigga had no real solo material at the time but he was running with heavyweights and gaining clout. 2Pac was in Digital Underground and to say he was IN it is overstating it, technically he was the little homie (back up dancer) who they let spit from time to time.

B.I.G., who Pac supposedly schooled to the rap game, had zoomed pass Pac and was crowned King of New York and the second coming of Big Daddy Kane after ONE ALBUM...again it took Pac 3 to get that clout.

Mobb Deep was smashing the game when they dropped The Infamous in 1995. Immediate impact, cats woke up. Pac was sitting in jail or just coming out during this time.

Suge blew breath into Pac while he was in prison. Suge hyped him up, promoted him, got him off his label and signed him. He began building Death Row behind 2Pac (it should be noted that Dre & Snoop as well as West Coast Hip-Hop were already on fire during this time), it was the equivalent of a big time free agent signing to a championship team. The team was already tight he just added to it.

Once Pac was on Death Row he became the centerpiece, the head MC (as he was the best rapper on the label unquestionably). So he had to promote their "style" the Death Row sound which was gangsta rap. Pac pretty much dropped all that "Panther Power" ? and got on some flossin' "Picture Me Rollin" type ? . It worked and he got the success he had always wanted.

All the beefs and ? were probably Suge's idea, mixed in with Pac's jealousy of BIG, Mobb Deep & Nas and the paranoia he attained after he got shot. If he was some revolutionary artist why did he change? ? like Ice Cube didn't change. Cube always mixed social commentary heavily into his albums even if they didn't do well commercially. I'm working off memory here but "Wonda Why They Call You ? " was probably the only social commentary he spoke on AEOM. The rest was about him "ridin on his enemies" or ? ? . The ? did a song with Jodeci man! Lol.

He had the hottest producer in the game (Dre) and a hot #2 MC (Snoop) on the hottest label in the game, of course he was successful! But BEFORE then he wasn't really seen as being THAT dude on the mic. He was known for acting an ass on TV all the time, movies, getting shot & the ? case. All the Black Panthers stuff was background noise to him being the posterboy for ignorant ? everywhere.