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Art-illery wrote: »Just got finishing watching the All Access 3rd episode. It was pretty good. I was annoyed with Robert Guerrero's "Christian anointing of Mayweather's humbling" lil' thing he did. Ms. Jackson still comes off as a "opportunist", but she's still fine as hell. Mayweather was a fool for playing the Ghostbuster's theme! And Reuben Guerrero thinks that he can beat Floyd Mayweather without the jab... LOL. Let me reiterate that one:
Reuben Guerrero thinks that he can beat Floyd Mayweather without the jab...
My ? ... May 4th is gonna be funny as ? !
link to episode 3?
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themadlionsfan wrote: »Cotto leading candidate for Canelo’s next fight on September 14th
April 24th, 2013 | Post Comment
By Dan Ambrose: Oscar De La Hoya of Golden Boy Promotions has confirmed that WBA/WBC junior middleweight champion Saul “Canelo” Alvarez will be fighting next on September 14th against a still to be determined opponent and venue. He’s waiting on the results of the Robert Guerrero vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr. fight to try and get the winner of that fight.
Canelo’s manager Eddie Reynoso would like to have Canelo face Mayweather, as would De La Hoya. However, given that Canelo out-weighs Mayweather by 25 pounds when he fights, it’s not likely that Mayweather is going to agree to fight someone with that kind of huge weight advantage over him, just as Canelo would likely never agree to fight cruiserweights Marco Huck and Denis Lebdev, who would have a 25 pound weight advantage over Canelo.
Since Canelo likely would never agree to melting down to 147 and then agreeing to a rehydration clause, the fight between him and Mayweather won’t happen.
The leading candidate for Canelo’s next fight is Miguel Cotto, and even that fight will be very, very difficult to make unless Golden Boy offers a huge guarantee for Cotto to take the fight. He can make a lot of money just fighting normal junior middleweights, so he doesn’t need to fight Canelo to get just a little bit more. I don’t see the point in Canelo fighting Cotto because Trout recently easily beat Cotto last December. Canelo might as well fight Trout again to clear up the controversy of his questionable win over him last Saturday night, but we know Canelo won’t do that. He’s moving on and will take the win regardless of the controversy.
Cotto has lost two out of his last three fights and this is definitely not a good time for him to be taking on someone like Canelo, who wins rounds by landing just a tiny of handful of punches.
You’ve got to figure that Golden Boy will look to put Canelo’s next fight back in Texas so that they can take advantage of his large Mexican fan base over there. But I think Cotto needs to think twice before he agrees to that because he doesn’t need to be in a situation where he’ll be dealing open scoring, and judges giving Canelo rounds where he’s getting out-punched.
Agreeing to fight Canelo in Texas with open scoring would be like Cotto setting himself up for failure. I think Cotto should only fight Canelo if the fight can take place in New York City, WITHOUT open scoring, with different judges than last time Canelo fought, and with a rehydration clause that will keep Canelo well below 170.
There’s no point in Cotto fighting Canelo if the guy is going to balloon up to over 170 and have a weight advantage of 10 pounds with open scoring. Forget that. Cotto needs to get a guarantee of $10 million, no open scoring, no Texas, rehydration limit of only 10 pounds, different judges and the fight taking place in New York City. If Golden Boy and Canelo don’t agree to that then Cotto needs to walk away from the deal.
in b4 Floyd is ducking Canelo -
Art-illery wrote: »Just got finishing watching the All Access 3rd episode. It was pretty good. I was annoyed with Robert Guerrero's "Christian anointing of Mayweather's humbling" lil' thing he did. Ms. Jackson still comes off as a "opportunist", but she's still fine as hell. Mayweather was a fool for playing the Ghostbuster's theme! And Reuben Guerrero thinks that he can beat Floyd Mayweather without the jab... LOL. Let me reiterate that one:
Reuben Guerrero thinks that he can beat Floyd Mayweather without the jab...
My ? ... May 4th is gonna be funny as ? !
link to episode 3?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1dSXpjGVC0 -
themadlionsfan wrote: »Cotto leading candidate for Canelo’s next fight on September 14th
April 24th, 2013 | Post Comment
By Dan Ambrose: Oscar De La Hoya of Golden Boy Promotions has confirmed that WBA/WBC junior middleweight champion Saul “Canelo” Alvarez will be fighting next on September 14th against a still to be determined opponent and venue. He’s waiting on the results of the Robert Guerrero vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr. fight to try and get the winner of that fight.
Canelo’s manager Eddie Reynoso would like to have Canelo face Mayweather, as would De La Hoya. However, given that Canelo out-weighs Mayweather by 25 pounds when he fights, it’s not likely that Mayweather is going to agree to fight someone with that kind of huge weight advantage over him, just as Canelo would likely never agree to fight cruiserweights Marco Huck and Denis Lebdev, who would have a 25 pound weight advantage over Canelo.
Since Canelo likely would never agree to melting down to 147 and then agreeing to a rehydration clause, the fight between him and Mayweather won’t happen.
The leading candidate for Canelo’s next fight is Miguel Cotto, and even that fight will be very, very difficult to make unless Golden Boy offers a huge guarantee for Cotto to take the fight. He can make a lot of money just fighting normal junior middleweights, so he doesn’t need to fight Canelo to get just a little bit more. I don’t see the point in Canelo fighting Cotto because Trout recently easily beat Cotto last December. Canelo might as well fight Trout again to clear up the controversy of his questionable win over him last Saturday night, but we know Canelo won’t do that. He’s moving on and will take the win regardless of the controversy.
Cotto has lost two out of his last three fights and this is definitely not a good time for him to be taking on someone like Canelo, who wins rounds by landing just a tiny of handful of punches.
You’ve got to figure that Golden Boy will look to put Canelo’s next fight back in Texas so that they can take advantage of his large Mexican fan base over there. But I think Cotto needs to think twice before he agrees to that because he doesn’t need to be in a situation where he’ll be dealing open scoring, and judges giving Canelo rounds where he’s getting out-punched.
Agreeing to fight Canelo in Texas with open scoring would be like Cotto setting himself up for failure. I think Cotto should only fight Canelo if the fight can take place in New York City, WITHOUT open scoring, with different judges than last time Canelo fought, and with a rehydration clause that will keep Canelo well below 170.
There’s no point in Cotto fighting Canelo if the guy is going to balloon up to over 170 and have a weight advantage of 10 pounds with open scoring. Forget that. Cotto needs to get a guarantee of $10 million, no open scoring, no Texas, rehydration limit of only 10 pounds, different judges and the fight taking place in New York City. If Golden Boy and Canelo don’t agree to that then Cotto needs to walk away from the deal.
in b4 Floyd is ducking Canelo
? that carrot top looking ? Mexican mutant. Floyd should fight him, but with a re-hydration clause, and/or same day weigh ins. If he wants to fight as a jr. middleweight, he needs to weigh himself like one. If not, he can always move up, and challenge people like Andre Ward or Sergio Martinez. I'm glad Juan Manuel Marquez called him out on his ? . -
Art-illery wrote: »Art-illery wrote: »BHOP a ? boy for how he sucks Oscar ? and ? . Him and Mosley.... Zab was right Hop wanna be all diplomatic.... Let Zab act a fool esp with all that ? Garcia pops been talkin. I hope Zab slaps the ? outta Danny at the weigh in
That was a bad move by B-Hop tho. He claims that he didn't know what happened, but as soon as I would've gotten the word, I would've went str8 to that basement. ? Danny Garcia's press conference. They're trying to clear out fighters like Zab Judah, and make room for fighters like Danny Garcia in a disrespectful way. And they're disrespecting Zab Judah in his home borough, which can hurt. The only reason why they want Danny Garcia to stick around is that he's a pretty boy Philly Rican, and his father sells controversy. Danny's boxing skills are average. His daddy took Amir Khan's knockout, and ran with it... I hope Lucas puts that work in on Lamont, so he can get his shot at Danny.
FOH ?
So says the ? that thought Donaire was gonna knock Rigondeuax out. Come better than that little ? .
never said this
now cry me a river ?
watch ya mouth when you talk about Lamont
War Pete !!!! get mad ? ass ? who dont like when i call him that -
We gotta be fair to this ? Adrien Broner, he ain't actin like a ? on this time! Maybe Errol Spence humbled him a lil bit!:Broner Donates Ring To Mount Auburn Rec Center
CINCINNATI - For many years, on his way to becoming a world champion boxer, Adrien Broner trained and sparred inside an aged ring tucked into the small boxing gym of the Mount Auburn Recreation Center. Now, after securing two world titles and becoming one of the foremost figures in the sport, the native Cincinnatian has decided to give back to the gym where he built his professional career by donating a brand new ring.
Perhaps the biggest sign that improvements were needed came just two weeks ago when Broner was in the middle of a sparring session operating around cut-man Levi Smith who was knelt down in the center of the ring patching up another long tear in the canvas.
While Broner trains daily at the gym, he is not the only person using the ring. Many boxers, young and old, male and female, use the facilities of the Mount Auburn Rec Center, and the new ring will serve as a welcome upgrade for all. He also bought brand new gloves and headgear, which were put to use by the amateurs at the regional Golden Gloves tournament. For the many youth who are learning the sport, this generous gift will help provide them with improved amenities as they work towards their own career, and is also a great example of giving back to the community.
Broner is currently in the early stages of preparation for his June 22 fight against Paulie Malignaggi at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, N.Y. The bout is scheduled for 12 rounds with the WBA Welterweight title at stake. A victory for Broner will be his third championship in three weight divisions.
Article Link - http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=64831#ixzz2RXe65H2M -
Art-illery wrote: »themadlionsfan wrote: »Cotto leading candidate for Canelo’s next fight on September 14th
April 24th, 2013 | Post Comment
By Dan Ambrose: Oscar De La Hoya of Golden Boy Promotions has confirmed that WBA/WBC junior middleweight champion Saul “Canelo” Alvarez will be fighting next on September 14th against a still to be determined opponent and venue. He’s waiting on the results of the Robert Guerrero vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr. fight to try and get the winner of that fight.
Canelo’s manager Eddie Reynoso would like to have Canelo face Mayweather, as would De La Hoya. However, given that Canelo out-weighs Mayweather by 25 pounds when he fights, it’s not likely that Mayweather is going to agree to fight someone with that kind of huge weight advantage over him, just as Canelo would likely never agree to fight cruiserweights Marco Huck and Denis Lebdev, who would have a 25 pound weight advantage over Canelo.
Since Canelo likely would never agree to melting down to 147 and then agreeing to a rehydration clause, the fight between him and Mayweather won’t happen.
The leading candidate for Canelo’s next fight is Miguel Cotto, and even that fight will be very, very difficult to make unless Golden Boy offers a huge guarantee for Cotto to take the fight. He can make a lot of money just fighting normal junior middleweights, so he doesn’t need to fight Canelo to get just a little bit more. I don’t see the point in Canelo fighting Cotto because Trout recently easily beat Cotto last December. Canelo might as well fight Trout again to clear up the controversy of his questionable win over him last Saturday night, but we know Canelo won’t do that. He’s moving on and will take the win regardless of the controversy.
Cotto has lost two out of his last three fights and this is definitely not a good time for him to be taking on someone like Canelo, who wins rounds by landing just a tiny of handful of punches.
You’ve got to figure that Golden Boy will look to put Canelo’s next fight back in Texas so that they can take advantage of his large Mexican fan base over there. But I think Cotto needs to think twice before he agrees to that because he doesn’t need to be in a situation where he’ll be dealing open scoring, and judges giving Canelo rounds where he’s getting out-punched.
Agreeing to fight Canelo in Texas with open scoring would be like Cotto setting himself up for failure. I think Cotto should only fight Canelo if the fight can take place in New York City, WITHOUT open scoring, with different judges than last time Canelo fought, and with a rehydration clause that will keep Canelo well below 170.
There’s no point in Cotto fighting Canelo if the guy is going to balloon up to over 170 and have a weight advantage of 10 pounds with open scoring. Forget that. Cotto needs to get a guarantee of $10 million, no open scoring, no Texas, rehydration limit of only 10 pounds, different judges and the fight taking place in New York City. If Golden Boy and Canelo don’t agree to that then Cotto needs to walk away from the deal.
in b4 Floyd is ducking Canelo
? that carrot top looking ? Mexican mutant. Floyd should fight him, but with a re-hydration clause, and/or same day weigh ins. If he wants to fight as a jr. middleweight, he needs to weigh himself like one. If not, he can always move up, and challenge people like Andre Ward or Sergio Martinez. I'm glad Juan Manuel Marquez called him out on his ? .
lol I dont even think Sergio Martinez weighs 172 on fight night
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Art-illery wrote: »Art-illery wrote: »BHOP a ? boy for how he sucks Oscar ? and ? . Him and Mosley.... Zab was right Hop wanna be all diplomatic.... Let Zab act a fool esp with all that ? Garcia pops been talkin. I hope Zab slaps the ? outta Danny at the weigh in
That was a bad move by B-Hop tho. He claims that he didn't know what happened, but as soon as I would've gotten the word, I would've went str8 to that basement. ? Danny Garcia's press conference. They're trying to clear out fighters like Zab Judah, and make room for fighters like Danny Garcia in a disrespectful way. And they're disrespecting Zab Judah in his home borough, which can hurt. The only reason why they want Danny Garcia to stick around is that he's a pretty boy Philly Rican, and his father sells controversy. Danny's boxing skills are average. His daddy took Amir Khan's knockout, and ran with it... I hope Lucas puts that work in on Lamont, so he can get his shot at Danny.
FOH ?
So says the ? that thought Donaire was gonna knock Rigondeuax out. Come better than that little ? .
never said this
now cry me a river ?
watch ya mouth when you talk about Lamont
War Pete !!!! get mad ? ass ? who dont like when i call him that
? PLEASE! You was hangin off that ? Donaire's ? so hard that Rachel her damn self was gettin jealous! And we ain't even gon get into how much you were holdin that Mexican ? 's ? so hard last Saturday that you thought that you was going to get your ? of gold at the tip of his ? ! Just for that, I hope Lamont gets the steroids beat out of him by that Argentinian rat-tail rockin muhfucka! -
Art-illery wrote: »Art-illery wrote: »Art-illery wrote: »BHOP a ? boy for how he sucks Oscar ? and ? . Him and Mosley.... Zab was right Hop wanna be all diplomatic.... Let Zab act a fool esp with all that ? Garcia pops been talkin. I hope Zab slaps the ? outta Danny at the weigh in
That was a bad move by B-Hop tho. He claims that he didn't know what happened, but as soon as I would've gotten the word, I would've went str8 to that basement. ? Danny Garcia's press conference. They're trying to clear out fighters like Zab Judah, and make room for fighters like Danny Garcia in a disrespectful way. And they're disrespecting Zab Judah in his home borough, which can hurt. The only reason why they want Danny Garcia to stick around is that he's a pretty boy Philly Rican, and his father sells controversy. Danny's boxing skills are average. His daddy took Amir Khan's knockout, and ran with it... I hope Lucas puts that work in on Lamont, so he can get his shot at Danny.
FOH ?
So says the ? that thought Donaire was gonna knock Rigondeuax out. Come better than that little ? .
never said this
now cry me a river ?
watch ya mouth when you talk about Lamont
War Pete !!!! get mad ? ass ? who dont like when i call him that
? PLEASE! You was hangin off that ? Donaire's ? so hard that Rachel her damn self was gettin jealous! And we ain't even gon get into how much you were holdin that Mexican ? 's ? so hard last Saturday that you thought that you was going to get your ? of gold at the tip of his ? ! Just for that, I hope Lamont gets the steroids beat out of him by that Argentinian rat-tail rockin muhfucka!
lol
Canelo da GOAT
sucka -
Garcia gon win.
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Lucas gonna ? Peterson dead ... the ? , and Peterson likes to shell up too... lucas gonna break that ? down... you think Lucas gonna wait for the perfect shot...... no hes gonna chop him down
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all access is wack compared to 24/7
i'm not interested in mayweather racing his ? on a f*cking bicycle man let alone watching guerrero's pops buying a radio on a flea market...
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I see peterson tasting tha canvas in tha first rd.......ever since lucas lost those two close fights he been like ? tha judges I'm knockin ? out..cant rob a ? when tha other fighter out cold....hagler did tha same thing in tha 80s his hands became his judges
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Art-illery wrote: »We gotta be fair to this ? Adrien Broner, he ain't actin like a ? on this time! Maybe Errol Spence humbled him a lil bit!:Broner Donates Ring To Mount Auburn Rec Center
CINCINNATI - For many years, on his way to becoming a world champion boxer, Adrien Broner trained and sparred inside an aged ring tucked into the small boxing gym of the Mount Auburn Recreation Center. Now, after securing two world titles and becoming one of the foremost figures in the sport, the native Cincinnatian has decided to give back to the gym where he built his professional career by donating a brand new ring.
Perhaps the biggest sign that improvements were needed came just two weeks ago when Broner was in the middle of a sparring session operating around cut-man Levi Smith who was knelt down in the center of the ring patching up another long tear in the canvas.
While Broner trains daily at the gym, he is not the only person using the ring. Many boxers, young and old, male and female, use the facilities of the Mount Auburn Rec Center, and the new ring will serve as a welcome upgrade for all. He also bought brand new gloves and headgear, which were put to use by the amateurs at the regional Golden Gloves tournament. For the many youth who are learning the sport, this generous gift will help provide them with improved amenities as they work towards their own career, and is also a great example of giving back to the community.
Broner is currently in the early stages of preparation for his June 22 fight against Paulie Malignaggi at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, N.Y. The bout is scheduled for 12 rounds with the WBA Welterweight title at stake. A victory for Broner will be his third championship in three weight divisions.
Article Link - http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=64831#ixzz2RXe65H2M
ok.....years of fuckery dont get credit for one thing..
it should be the other way around
years of doing ? an showing fuckery one time -
Who tha ? is errol spence
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Art-illery wrote: »We gotta be fair to this ? Adrien Broner, he ain't actin like a ? on this time! Maybe Errol Spence humbled him a lil bit!:Broner Donates Ring To Mount Auburn Rec Center
CINCINNATI - For many years, on his way to becoming a world champion boxer, Adrien Broner trained and sparred inside an aged ring tucked into the small boxing gym of the Mount Auburn Recreation Center. Now, after securing two world titles and becoming one of the foremost figures in the sport, the native Cincinnatian has decided to give back to the gym where he built his professional career by donating a brand new ring.
Perhaps the biggest sign that improvements were needed came just two weeks ago when Broner was in the middle of a sparring session operating around cut-man Levi Smith who was knelt down in the center of the ring patching up another long tear in the canvas.
While Broner trains daily at the gym, he is not the only person using the ring. Many boxers, young and old, male and female, use the facilities of the Mount Auburn Rec Center, and the new ring will serve as a welcome upgrade for all. He also bought brand new gloves and headgear, which were put to use by the amateurs at the regional Golden Gloves tournament. For the many youth who are learning the sport, this generous gift will help provide them with improved amenities as they work towards their own career, and is also a great example of giving back to the community.
Broner is currently in the early stages of preparation for his June 22 fight against Paulie Malignaggi at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, N.Y. The bout is scheduled for 12 rounds with the WBA Welterweight title at stake. A victory for Broner will be his third championship in three weight divisions.
Article Link - http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=64831#ixzz2RXe65H2M
ok.....years of fuckery dont get credit for one thing..
it should be the other way around
years of doing ? an showing fuckery one time
We just givin the ? some credit for goin' in the right direction! lol... He still got a way to go.
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Art-illery wrote: »Art-illery wrote: »We gotta be fair to this ? Adrien Broner, he ain't actin like a ? on this time! Maybe Errol Spence humbled him a lil bit!:Broner Donates Ring To Mount Auburn Rec Center
CINCINNATI - For many years, on his way to becoming a world champion boxer, Adrien Broner trained and sparred inside an aged ring tucked into the small boxing gym of the Mount Auburn Recreation Center. Now, after securing two world titles and becoming one of the foremost figures in the sport, the native Cincinnatian has decided to give back to the gym where he built his professional career by donating a brand new ring.
Perhaps the biggest sign that improvements were needed came just two weeks ago when Broner was in the middle of a sparring session operating around cut-man Levi Smith who was knelt down in the center of the ring patching up another long tear in the canvas.
While Broner trains daily at the gym, he is not the only person using the ring. Many boxers, young and old, male and female, use the facilities of the Mount Auburn Rec Center, and the new ring will serve as a welcome upgrade for all. He also bought brand new gloves and headgear, which were put to use by the amateurs at the regional Golden Gloves tournament. For the many youth who are learning the sport, this generous gift will help provide them with improved amenities as they work towards their own career, and is also a great example of giving back to the community.
Broner is currently in the early stages of preparation for his June 22 fight against Paulie Malignaggi at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn, N.Y. The bout is scheduled for 12 rounds with the WBA Welterweight title at stake. A victory for Broner will be his third championship in three weight divisions.
Article Link - http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=64831#ixzz2RXe65H2M
ok.....years of fuckery dont get credit for one thing..
it should be the other way around
years of doing ? an showing fuckery one time
We just givin the ? some credit for goin' in the right direction! lol... He still got a way to go.
nina brown gave out turkeys on thanksgiving...that didnt make him no better.
im hard on hoez and he does hoe ? -
Who tha ? is errol spence
Errol Spence is a 2012 Olympian that was the hottest prospect on his boxing team. He won a couple of national championships when he was boxing as an amateur. Now he turned pro, and his record is 4-0 with three knockouts. Jr. Middleweight ? from Dallas. From what I've seen from him, the ? is pretty good. Rumor has it that he even gave Mayweather a black eye during a training session... Neverthless, Mayweather returned the gratitude by giving him one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-fYrVbVfPM -
Ya'll know the weigh in for Judah and Garcia is gonna be G.O.A.T... Here's the link... 1PM Eastern/11 Pacific:
http://www.badlefthook.com/2013/4/26/4267770/garcia-vs-judah-live-streaming-video-weigh-in-event-quillin-guerrero-showtime-boxing-news
Sergio and Murray just had their weigh in... I gotta hand it to Sergio... I remember when he was just another prospect that was comin up at a late age; but ever since he iced Paul Williams and pummeled JCC Jr., he blew up! And I guess none of ya'll ? care that Amir Khan is fighting tomorrow! lol...
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Art-illery wrote: »Ya'll know the weigh in for Judah and Garcia is gonna be G.O.A.T... Here's the link... 1PM Eastern/11 Pacific:
http://www.badlefthook.com/2013/4/26/4267770/garcia-vs-judah-live-streaming-video-weigh-in-event-quillin-guerrero-showtime-boxing-news
Sergio and Murray just had their weigh in... I gotta hand it to Sergio... I remember when he was just another prospect that was comin up at a late age; but ever since he iced Paul Williams and pummeled JCC Jr., he blew up! And I guess none of ya'll ? care that Amir Khan is fighting tomorrow! lol...
amir needs to find out what country hes reppin....pakistan or uk.
once he does that he might win a fight -
Art-illery wrote: »
I'd love to see a Mayweather Judah II...Judah had a kd that wasnt counted...he was ? for tat speed wise with Mayweather that fight till ? went sour in the middle of the fight -
Art-illery wrote: »Ya'll know the weigh in for Judah and Garcia is gonna be G.O.A.T... Here's the link... 1PM Eastern/11 Pacific:
http://www.badlefthook.com/2013/4/26/4267770/garcia-vs-judah-live-streaming-video-weigh-in-event-quillin-guerrero-showtime-boxing-news
Sergio and Murray just had their weigh in... I gotta hand it to Sergio... I remember when he was just another prospect that was comin up at a late age; but ever since he iced Paul Williams and pummeled JCC Jr., he blew up! And I guess none of ya'll ? care that Amir Khan is fighting tomorrow! lol...
let's ? go!!! -
Art-illery wrote: »Ya'll know the weigh in for Judah and Garcia is gonna be G.O.A.T... Here's the link... 1PM Eastern/11 Pacific:
http://www.badlefthook.com/2013/4/26/4267770/garcia-vs-judah-live-streaming-video-weigh-in-event-quillin-guerrero-showtime-boxing-news
Sergio and Murray just had their weigh in... I gotta hand it to Sergio... I remember when he was just another prospect that was comin up at a late age; but ever since he iced Paul Williams and pummeled JCC Jr., he blew up! And I guess none of ya'll ? care that Amir Khan is fighting tomorrow! lol...
its on now... -
Ya'll know they're going to have two separate weigh ins right!? LOL... This is deeper than rap...
