Why We Must Destroy and Rebuild Exhibit A#... KRS vs PM Dawn ( told by Kool Kim)
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redhandedbandit wrote: »i get what the premise is that as the mythical status applied to krs one he falls short...reading both of the titangraph posts it seems that they said that krs was a self professed "humanist" but by rushing the stage and debo'ing the stage that flies in contrast to those teachings personally i dont like humanists but it seems that he picked and chose his battles although what he did was ? up in hindsight it seems like that was one of those in the moment things
the larger point is... if we can question the mythical status of krs one then how far does that go? what kind of seed were planted? dont nobody like the crop of today but fail to overstand that everything that is exists in a never ending chain of cause and effect. we cant say the origins of the problem are with the "new ? ". why? krs one and other people were moaning about the same ? in the damn 80s!! so what are the inherent problems at the root?
blind devotion to the gatekeepers is what blocks the path of correction.
hip-hop can go no higher than its heroes and if those heroes heights are fals then aint no getting higher at all....
the proof is in the pudding..
This is the ? ? i am talking about. what mythical status? most young guys don't listen to krs no one is devoted to him and krs-1 music is not the inspiration for the fuckery that we hear today if it was the music would be much better.
your whole premise is ? and is based one a lie so Stop using krs as an example for the point you are trying to make.
There are more people devoted to kool g rap, ice-t and dr dre than krs.
where do you miss the point that krs one and this story is AN EXAMPLE. a case study of a LARGER PROBLEM. Hence the thread title EXHIBIT A you ? ! you kept bumping it so i figured id wait till i went platinum to begin EXHIBIT B.
look how emotional you are. like an old southern handkerchief head ? if u critique his white jesus paining in the front room.
we need to fly you to nigeria and get them ? lips clipped. you acting like a lil ol ? right bout now, kane....
It's a bad example and ? logic. the foundation of your argument is weak. I have family in africa i'll be more comfortable there than you ? .
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redhandedbandit wrote: »i get what the premise is that as the mythical status applied to krs one he falls short...reading both of the titangraph posts it seems that they said that krs was a self professed "humanist" but by rushing the stage and debo'ing the stage that flies in contrast to those teachings personally i dont like humanists but it seems that he picked and chose his battles although what he did was ? up in hindsight it seems like that was one of those in the moment things
the larger point is... if we can question the mythical status of krs one then how far does that go? what kind of seed were planted? dont nobody like the crop of today but fail to overstand that everything that is exists in a never ending chain of cause and effect. we cant say the origins of the problem are with the "new ? ". why? krs one and other people were moaning about the same ? in the damn 80s!! so what are the inherent problems at the root?
blind devotion to the gatekeepers is what blocks the path of correction.
hip-hop can go no higher than its heroes and if those heroes heights are fals then aint no getting higher at all....
the proof is in the pudding..
This is the ? ? i am talking about. what mythical status? most young guys don't listen to krs no one is devoted to him and krs-1 music is not the inspiration for the fuckery that we hear today if it was the music would be much better.
your whole premise is ? and is based one a lie so Stop using krs as an example for the point you are trying to make.
There are more people devoted to kool g rap, ice-t and dr dre than krs.
where do you miss the point that krs one and this story is AN EXAMPLE. a case study of a LARGER PROBLEM. Hence the thread title EXHIBIT A you ? ! you kept bumping it so i figured id wait till i went platinum to begin EXHIBIT B.
look how emotional you are. like an old southern handkerchief head ? if u critique his white jesus paining in the front room.
we need to fly you to nigeria and get them ? lips clipped. you acting like a lil ol ? right bout now, kane....
It's a bad example and ? logic. the foundation of your argument is weak. I have family in africa i'll be more comfortable there than you ? .
? im trying to get land and a home there. i got family in ghana. cape coast cakin. sweet- o -
redhandedbandit wrote: »i get what the premise is that as the mythical status applied to krs one he falls short...reading both of the titangraph posts it seems that they said that krs was a self professed "humanist" but by rushing the stage and debo'ing the stage that flies in contrast to those teachings personally i dont like humanists but it seems that he picked and chose his battles although what he did was ? up in hindsight it seems like that was one of those in the moment things
the larger point is... if we can question the mythical status of krs one then how far does that go? what kind of seed were planted? dont nobody like the crop of today but fail to overstand that everything that is exists in a never ending chain of cause and effect. we cant say the origins of the problem are with the "new ? ". why? krs one and other people were moaning about the same ? in the damn 80s!! so what are the inherent problems at the root?
blind devotion to the gatekeepers is what blocks the path of correction.
hip-hop can go no higher than its heroes and if those heroes heights are fals then aint no getting higher at all....
the proof is in the pudding..
This is the ? ? i am talking about. what mythical status? most young guys don't listen to krs no one is devoted to him and krs-1 music is not the inspiration for the fuckery that we hear today if it was the music would be much better.
your whole premise is ? and is based one a lie so Stop using krs as an example for the point you are trying to make.
There are more people devoted to kool g rap, ice-t and dr dre than krs.
where do you miss the point that krs one and this story is AN EXAMPLE. a case study of a LARGER PROBLEM. Hence the thread title EXHIBIT A you ? ! you kept bumping it so i figured id wait till i went platinum to begin EXHIBIT B.
look how emotional you are. like an old southern handkerchief head ? if u critique his white jesus paining in the front room.
we need to fly you to nigeria and get them ? lips clipped. you acting like a lil ol ? right bout now, kane....
It's a bad example and ? logic. the foundation of your argument is weak. I have family in africa i'll be more comfortable there than you ? .
? im trying to get land and a home there. i got family in ghana. cape coast cakin. sweet- o
That is a wonderful thing brother but you are still wrong about krs-1 -
herbalism101 wrote: »Still trying to find out how KRS One is a hypocrite.........
That article you posted actually builds on @judahxulu point though. Dude got frustrated because he kept being picked on and then didn't decide to take any action until PM Dawn got involved. Kenny Parker basically called the man a hypocrite his self. -
Disciplined InSight wrote: »Wow @herbalism101... Dope drop.
I believe in this culture you gotta deal with dualities of different identities anyway. Tupac, Nas are prime examples.
a dualistic mindstate is dysfunctional tho. its called cognitive dissonance.
Well...that's just about....give or take... 85-90% of the artists in this game. -
Disciplined InSight wrote: »Disciplined InSight wrote: »Wow @herbalism101... Dope drop.
I believe in this culture you gotta deal with dualities of different identities anyway. Tupac, Nas are prime examples.
a dualistic mindstate is dysfunctional tho. its called cognitive dissonance.
Well...that's just about....give or take... 85-90% of the artists in this game.
and it aint they fault... mostly. its some dysfunction got passed after the civil rights era to the pioneer generation and the industrialization of rap arrested the development of hip hop thus you have emotionally, mentally and socially immature rappers whose content, allbeit some are well-meaning disperses and duplicates this mindstate to varying degrees depending on the listener and the level of civilization to the artists .
i think the ability to be in that 15-10% margin you mentioned is what should separate the emcees from the rappers and the professionals from the amateurs. the art in and of itself is from noble origins- a revered profession and held to be beneficial to the people the griots were part of. they were paid according to how what they spit enriched the people. a big part of the griot tradition was storytelling poems/songs, educational ones and ones telling the history and current events of the tribe. this enhanced their culture. its sacred. i dont care what cats say... a pm dawn would be more in line with that than a krs one. look how the aggression and violence is literally consuming generation after generation. i welcome ? hippies. its all energy in the end. energy filtered through cognitive dissonance can only create dischord in the ends. emcees are the real life ? book of eli but every body got they own book, ? need to be taken seriously like that. if a rapper gone teach then live that breathe that. if not dont go claiming u the essence and foundation cuz studies have shown they aint about that life
rap is too ? powerful to only be governed by money and a fabricated image/"character"... thats why its so destructive to the bearers of that power off they square. dont nobody die, get shot and locked up more than rappers out of any other genre ever existed. its been around long enough and ? been in the public eye so we can connect the dots betwwen the things they say and do and the ripple effect of tragedy befalling them...
and its not seen because tied in with that cognitive dissonance is a narcissistic complex that rap got stuck at.. if people consider hiphop a culture or themselves hip hop they are highly vulnerable to being influenced by that narcissistic mode.. -
Disciplined InSight wrote: »Disciplined InSight wrote: »Wow @herbalism101... Dope drop.
I believe in this culture you gotta deal with dualities of different identities anyway. Tupac, Nas are prime examples.
a dualistic mindstate is dysfunctional tho. its called cognitive dissonance.
Well...that's just about....give or take... 85-90% of the artists in this game.
and it aint they fault... mostly. its some dysfunction got passed after the civil rights era to the pioneer generation and the industrialization of rap arrested the development of hip hop thus you have emotionally, mentally and socially immature rappers whose content, allbeit some are well-meaning disperses and duplicates this mindstate to varying degrees depending on the listener and the level of civilization to the artists .
i think the ability to be in that 15-10% margin you mentioned is what should separate the emcees from the rappers and the professionals from the amateurs. the art in and of itself is from noble origins- a revered profession and held to be beneficial to the people the griots were part of. they were paid according to how what they spit enriched the people. a big part of the griot tradition was storytelling poems/songs, educational ones and ones telling the history and current events of the tribe. this enhanced their culture. its sacred. i dont care what cats say... a pm dawn would be more in line with that than a krs one. look how the aggression and violence is literally consuming generation after generation. i welcome ? hippies. its all energy in the end. energy filtered through cognitive dissonance can only create dischord in the ends. emcees are the real life ? book of eli but every body got they own book, ? need to be taken seriously like that. if a rapper gone teach then live that breathe that. if not dont go claiming u the essence and foundation cuz studies have shown they aint about that life
rap is too ? powerful to only be governed by money and a fabricated image/"character"... thats why its so destructive to the bearers of that power off they square. dont nobody die, get shot and locked up more than rappers out of any other genre ever existed. its been around long enough and ? been in the public eye so we can connect the dots betwwen the things they say and do and the ripple effect of tragedy befalling them...
and its not seen because tied in with that cognitive dissonance is a narcissistic complex that rap got stuck at.. if people consider hiphop a culture or themselves hip hop they are highly vulnerable to being influenced by that narcissistic mode..
ON that note you start the 2nd exhibit Fam because any rebuttle to this is being done simply for the sake of being contrary, Dope Drop... -
Soloman the Wise wrote: »Disciplined InSight wrote: »Disciplined InSight wrote: »Wow @herbalism101... Dope drop.
I believe in this culture you gotta deal with dualities of different identities anyway. Tupac, Nas are prime examples.
a dualistic mindstate is dysfunctional tho. its called cognitive dissonance.
Well...that's just about....give or take... 85-90% of the artists in this game.
and it aint they fault... mostly. its some dysfunction got passed after the civil rights era to the pioneer generation and the industrialization of rap arrested the development of hip hop thus you have emotionally, mentally and socially immature rappers whose content, allbeit some are well-meaning disperses and duplicates this mindstate to varying degrees depending on the listener and the level of civilization to the artists .
i think the ability to be in that 15-10% margin you mentioned is what should separate the emcees from the rappers and the professionals from the amateurs. the art in and of itself is from noble origins- a revered profession and held to be beneficial to the people the griots were part of. they were paid according to how what they spit enriched the people. a big part of the griot tradition was storytelling poems/songs, educational ones and ones telling the history and current events of the tribe. this enhanced their culture. its sacred. i dont care what cats say... a pm dawn would be more in line with that than a krs one. look how the aggression and violence is literally consuming generation after generation. i welcome ? hippies. its all energy in the end. energy filtered through cognitive dissonance can only create dischord in the ends. emcees are the real life ? book of eli but every body got they own book, ? need to be taken seriously like that. if a rapper gone teach then live that breathe that. if not dont go claiming u the essence and foundation cuz studies have shown they aint about that life
rap is too ? powerful to only be governed by money and a fabricated image/"character"... thats why its so destructive to the bearers of that power off they square. dont nobody die, get shot and locked up more than rappers out of any other genre ever existed. its been around long enough and ? been in the public eye so we can connect the dots betwwen the things they say and do and the ripple effect of tragedy befalling them...
and its not seen because tied in with that cognitive dissonance is a narcissistic complex that rap got stuck at.. if people consider hiphop a culture or themselves hip hop they are highly vulnerable to being influenced by that narcissistic mode..
ON that note you start the 2nd exhibit Fam because any rebuttle to this is being done simply for the sake of being contrary, Dope Drop...
Cosign. No point for a rebuttle.
Just add on. -
@zombie
Is actually making very valid points in here.
This is THE biggest reason why nobody wants to do concious rap anymore. No matter what you do people will always take things out of context and TRY their hardest to make you seem like a hypocrite. Listen, we ALL are hypocrites every single day. But nothing yall said really was valid like that, if you really understand what he stood against and was about. I think yall going off your own perceptions tbh.
This is why most emcees aint wanna rap about no ? but what perpetuates the idiocy, norm and stereotypes. Why? Because most people are more comfortable with it and no one will try to tear you down for it. Ironic huh? -
SnuffDaddy wrote: »@zombie
Is actually making very valid points in here.
This is THE biggest reason why nobody wants to do concious rap anymore. No matter what you do people will always take things out of context and TRY their hardest to make you seepublic figureke a hypocrite. Listen, we ALL are hypocrites every single day. But nothing yall said really was valid like that, if you really understand what he stood against and was about. I think yall going off your own perceptions tbh./quote]
Yes people are hypocritical but to be habitually is a flaw of character that someone should be held accountable for. It's like believing a liar after its been proven that they lie consistently. Ur the fool after a while if u keep believing what they say. If u are a public figure n u sing songs about stopping violence and campaign a movement about it but coincidentally beat a dude up who barely slighted u at a show where groups of people n media r there 2 see it. Ur a hypocrite n I can't ? wit u. But that's just me I'd feel a way or change the way I view that person. But ur opinion is ur own. -
iight i got you scripture says everyone falls short of the glory of ? but you dont throw the baby out with the bathwater because you cant be perfect doesnt mean you shouldnt have principals if not you are not human you are clay which will be molded by whoever is running game on you
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fam that is true but it is besides the point the only way man has to judge is based upon the actions and words of others. When we see a consistency for Good Or Bad you are taught a truth about honesty of the person the same can be said when you see a conflict of word versus action. That said the overall point of this thread and even most scripture is do not be a hypocrite and display righteousness in your everything for that is the legacy you have to leave ...redhandedbandit wrote: »iight i got you scripture says everyone falls short of the glory of ? but you dont throw the baby out with the bathwater because you cant be perfect doesnt mean you shouldnt have principals if not you are not human you are clay which will be molded by whoever is running game on you
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Keeping to the point of the thread, KRS One was a GIANT in Hip Hop at the time that said event took place. At the time Hip Hop was an East Coast/New York thing and cats from the West and/or South were considered outsiders.
Now, 20 years later, KRS is, well, an outsider. He certainly doesn't have the pull or the influence that he had 20 years ago and that PM Dawn incident may have had something to do with his fall from grace.
You can't tell me that KRS doesn't want more popularity and clout in the industry. All the time he spent trying to be "the teacher" and now nobody listens to him because they don't agree with his message, whatever it is. They'd rather have alot of money, nice cars and pretty girls like Jay Z.
Plain and simply, KRS's message of stopping the violence and not being preoccupied with money didn't go over too well with the 90s babies. -
Keeping to the point of the thread, KRS One was a GIANT in Hip Hop at the time that said event took place. At the time Hip Hop was an East Coast/New York thing and cats from the West and/or South were considered outsiders.
Now, 20 years later, KRS is, well, an outsider. He certainly doesn't have the pull or the influence that he had 20 years ago and that PM Dawn incident may have had something to do with his fall from grace.
You can't tell me that KRS doesn't want more popularity and clout in the industry. All the time he spent trying to be "the teacher" and now nobody listens to him because they don't agree with his message, whatever it is. They'd rather have alot of money, nice cars and pretty girls like Jay Z.
Plain and simply, KRS's message of stopping the violence and not being preoccupied with money didn't go over too well with the 90s babies.
Do you feel or recognize that part of the reason that did not go over well was because the lack of consistency in the messages he sent??? -
Soloman the Wise wrote: »Keeping to the point of the thread, KRS One was a GIANT in Hip Hop at the time that said event took place. At the time Hip Hop was an East Coast/New York thing and cats from the West and/or South were considered outsiders.
Now, 20 years later, KRS is, well, an outsider. He certainly doesn't have the pull or the influence that he had 20 years ago and that PM Dawn incident may have had something to do with his fall from grace.
You can't tell me that KRS doesn't want more popularity and clout in the industry. All the time he spent trying to be "the teacher" and now nobody listens to him because they don't agree with his message, whatever it is. They'd rather have alot of money, nice cars and pretty girls like Jay Z.
Plain and simply, KRS's message of stopping the violence and not being preoccupied with money didn't go over too well with the 90s babies.
Do you feel or recognize that part of the reason that did not go over well was because the lack of consistency in the messages he sent???
Agreed. Aside from the basic message of "speaking your mind", his message was kind of confusing. I mean, I agree that a rapper should, in theory speak on whatever is on his mind be it politics or religion. So yes, I agree that rappers shouldn't be scared to talk about social issues. But my problem with KRS is that I don't understand what his stand is on any of those issues and I'm not going to listen to his music and try to decipher what he's talking about.
Another way to put it is that when I was like 14/15 years old he was talking about Stop the Violence and Self Destruction, which made sense at the time. But over the years he started getting deeper and deeper into religion, theology, humanism and his messages did start to contradict. That's around the time I lost interest. -
If you look at By All Means Necessary…that record “Stop The Violence” – everybody points to that, but on that same album on “My Philosophy”, he says “KRS-One is just the guy to lead a crew/right up to your face and diss you!” That’s there in clear English! No one hears that part, they just hear “stop the violence”, so if he takes a run-up with a crew they gonna say “Where that come from? He’s not like that!” when he’s tellin’ you “Yeah, I am!”
it seems like he would have been a hypocrite if he didn't ever mash somebody off the stage. -
Sneak Dissa wrote: »If you look at By All Means Necessary…that record “Stop The Violence” – everybody points to that, but on that same album on “My Philosophy”, he says “KRS-One is just the guy to lead a crew/right up to your face and diss you!” That’s there in clear English! No one hears that part, they just hear “stop the violence”, so if he takes a run-up with a crew they gonna say “Where that come from? He’s not like that!” when he’s tellin’ you “Yeah, I am!”
it seems like he would have been a hypocrite if he didn't ever mash somebody off the stage.
he only did that to the one dude he knew couldnt or wouldnt do ? back.. do your research. -
Sneak Dissa wrote: »If you look at By All Means Necessary…that record “Stop The Violence” – everybody points to that, but on that same album on “My Philosophy”, he says “KRS-One is just the guy to lead a crew/right up to your face and diss you!” That’s there in clear English! No one hears that part, they just hear “stop the violence”, so if he takes a run-up with a crew they gonna say “Where that come from? He’s not like that!” when he’s tellin’ you “Yeah, I am!”
it seems like he would have been a hypocrite if he didn't ever mash somebody off the stage.
he only did that to the one dude he knew couldnt or wouldnt do ? back.. do your research.
i'm not sure how that makes him a hypocrite though. he's supposed to bumrush everybody's stage or put himself in a situation where it's gonna be a fight or gunplay? -
Sneak Dissa wrote: »Sneak Dissa wrote: »If you look at By All Means Necessary…that record “Stop The Violence” – everybody points to that, but on that same album on “My Philosophy”, he says “KRS-One is just the guy to lead a crew/right up to your face and diss you!” That’s there in clear English! No one hears that part, they just hear “stop the violence”, so if he takes a run-up with a crew they gonna say “Where that come from? He’s not like that!” when he’s tellin’ you “Yeah, I am!”
it seems like he would have been a hypocrite if he didn't ever mash somebody off the stage.
he only did that to the one dude he knew couldnt or wouldnt do ? back.. do your research.
i'm not sure how that makes him a hypocrite though. he's supposed to bumrush everybody's stage or put himself in a situation where it's gonna be a fight or gunplay?
In all honesty this is just one huge incident displaying the hypocrisy of Krs and the Culture in general. I do not believe the point is to go over his every fallacy and contradiction as I know for a fact more can be listed that are not as prevalent but just as relevant as this one. As one of the elder statesmen in the game that has claimed the title of Teacher in our culture he has to be held accountable to his own words and actions on many levels. To me this thread based on teh title is the beginning of a bigger lesson in the hopes that through reflection and true critical thinking we can begin to reassert and correct some of the problems that elder statesmen Like Krs talk about while acknowledging that they in a lot of cases created/contributed to those same issues...
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Soloman the Wise wrote: »Sneak Dissa wrote: »Sneak Dissa wrote: »If you look at By All Means Necessary…that record “Stop The Violence” – everybody points to that, but on that same album on “My Philosophy”, he says “KRS-One is just the guy to lead a crew/right up to your face and diss you!” That’s there in clear English! No one hears that part, they just hear “stop the violence”, so if he takes a run-up with a crew they gonna say “Where that come from? He’s not like that!” when he’s tellin’ you “Yeah, I am!”
it seems like he would have been a hypocrite if he didn't ever mash somebody off the stage.
he only did that to the one dude he knew couldnt or wouldnt do ? back.. do your research.
i'm not sure how that makes him a hypocrite though. he's supposed to bumrush everybody's stage or put himself in a situation where it's gonna be a fight or gunplay?
In all honesty this is just one huge incident displaying the hypocrisy of Krs and the Culture in general. I do not believe the point is to go over his every fallacy and contradiction as I know for a fact more can be listed that are not as prevalent but just as relevant as this one. As one of the elder statesmen in the game that has claimed the title of Teacher in our culture he has to be held accountable to his own words and actions on many levels. To me this thread based on teh title is the beginning of a bigger lesson in the hopes that through reflection and true critical thinking we can begin to reassert and correct some of the problems that elder statesmen Like Krs talk about while acknowledging that they in a lot of cases created/contributed to those same issues...
BINGO! -
ok if it's not just about krs or the pm dawn incident (although the o/p and title suggest otherwise) let's see some other examples of this hypocrisy we're talking about.
otherwise this is just yet another not-so thinly veiled krs hate thread. -
Sneak Dissa wrote: »ok if it's not just about krs or the pm dawn incident (although the o/p and title suggest otherwise) let's see some other examples of this hypocrisy we're talking about.
otherwise this is just yet another not-so thinly veiled krs hate thread.
Well we could bring up 2Pac's hypocrisy but it would take up another 10 pages. -
Sneak Dissa wrote: »ok if it's not just about krs or the pm dawn incident (although the o/p and title suggest otherwise) let's see some other examples of this hypocrisy we're talking about.
otherwise this is just yet another not-so thinly veiled krs hate thread.
? the title states EXHIBIT A...meaning theres more non-KRS related stuff to come. Nobody is building the case for YOU individually though. Its bigger than me, you or hip-hop. You can easily google a phrase like " KRS hypocrite" and a million and one things will pop up and point you towards any sources over the years or observations that cant be denied due to lyrical content vs philosophy vs actual life. and the main theme is explicitly identified as a general renovation meaning there is a constructive end to all this- by design - by MY blueprint. Where are your reading comprehension skills? Did you lose them the same place you lost objectivity? -
i never pretended to be objective. i'm a krs-one fan and also a pushing a wack rapper off the stage fan and i felt like this thread was ? from the start.
what's exhibit b gonna be? krs never had 100 guns and 200 clips?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQlCN3CpAu0
the thread title betrays your real motives which is that you're butthurt that krs ripped x-clan a new one on this joint. -
Sneak Dissa wrote: »i never pretended to be objective. i'm a krs-one fan and also a pushing a wack rapper off the stage fan and i felt like this thread was ? from the start.
what's exhibit b gonna be? krs never had 100 guns and 200 clips?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQlCN3CpAu0
the thread title betrays your real motives which is that you're butthurt that krs ripped x-clan a new one on this joint.
? how you feel, fanboy. i got an exhibit for your kind ( the rap religionist/stupid consumer).... but much later. exhibit b has nothing to do with your surrogate father kris.
