No troll, but I thought people here might wanna see what whites think
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georgia boi wrote: »icecoldstew wrote: »Having a classic is ones opinion, him having one is not an unpopular opinion and u discrediting him for personal reasons over a mistake which he admitted is blasphemous.
He made a "mistake" cool. At 16 you should have a solid idea what racism is. A mistake is backing up too fast and hitting a parked car on the curb. Or leaving food on the stove too long and burning it. Spitting racist bars is not a mistake. He had to have thought about it, then wrote it on paper and then went in the booth and laid down the verse. He had plenty of time to think about it and not rap those lyrics.
MMLP is not a classic. It was a good album that got undeserved praised because he's white. For example Ghostface has dropped better albums that NOBODY CALLS CLASSICS.
He got some high ratings from some of the mainstream white media, but only a few of them have given him perfect scores. None of Eminem's albums are rated higher than 78 on Metacritic, Marshall Mather LP included. Even Rollingstone never gave Em a perfect score. Kanye's pretty much replaced Em in that regard because he has two albums with perfect scores. They even have one or two Ye albums in the 20 of their Greatest Albums of All Time list over Eminem. Every Kanye solo except 808's is rated higher than Em on Metacritic and that's just one example. OutKast, Ghostface, even Missy Elliott and several others also have albums that are rated higher by the same media that praises Eminem
What does any of that have to do with that album getting undeserved praise?
You said MMLP received undeserved praise because he's white. I pointed out that other rappers who aren't white have gotten greater praise than Em got for MMLP. The hype machine behind MMLP wasn't as quick to give Eminem perfect scores as perceived. At best, the praise for MMLP was generally favorable as opposed to universally acclaimed.
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NothingButTheTruth wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »There's a lot of factors as to why Eminem sells. If you're going to say he sells because he's white, you can't put an "AND" behind it without killing your own argument. It's not logical to say music sells because of skin color because it suggests that people are listening with their eyes or they aren't listening at all. It suggests that people are walking into a record store and buying albums because the artist looks like them and not because they like the music.
Futhermore, Eminem's white counterparts in Hip Hop don't have albums that are above 1.5 million in sales. You'd have to go all the way back to Vanilla Ice and the Beastie Boys to find one. On top of that, Eminem has multiple multi-platinum albums. It's not because Eminem's viewed as the "white hope", it's because Eminem's also one of the biggest Pop stars. His Pop counterparts can't even do his numbers and they have the same skin color. When Eminem came out Britney, N'sync, the Backstreet Boys, and Christina Aguilera were outselling Eminem. 13 years later Eminem is outselling them and outside of Justin Timberlake, some are struggling to hit 200K, or are struglling to go platinum.
WTF? Em is the only rap artist out of the bunch, so your comparisons don't make much sense.
Did you not see where it says "Eminem's also one of the biggest Pop stars"? Come on now. -
And my point is that MMLP didn't warrant classic talk. It was a good album. There are plenty of other good albums which can be argued is as good if not better than MMLP than no one is calling a classic. To act like the marketing and hype behind him didn't play a part then you're being naive. So the fact that other albums got higher ratings is irrelevant to the discussion.georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »icecoldstew wrote: »Having a classic is ones opinion, him having one is not an unpopular opinion and u discrediting him for personal reasons over a mistake which he admitted is blasphemous.
He made a "mistake" cool. At 16 you should have a solid idea what racism is. A mistake is backing up too fast and hitting a parked car on the curb. Or leaving food on the stove too long and burning it. Spitting racist bars is not a mistake. He had to have thought about it, then wrote it on paper and then went in the booth and laid down the verse. He had plenty of time to think about it and not rap those lyrics.
MMLP is not a classic. It was a good album that got undeserved praised because he's white. For example Ghostface has dropped better albums that NOBODY CALLS CLASSICS.
He got some high ratings from some of the mainstream white media, but only a few of them have given him perfect scores. None of Eminem's albums are rated higher than 78 on Metacritic, Marshall Mather LP included. Even Rollingstone never gave Em a perfect score. Kanye's pretty much replaced Em in that regard because he has two albums with perfect scores. They even have one or two Ye albums in the 20 of their Greatest Albums of All Time list over Eminem. Every Kanye solo except 808's is rated higher than Em on Metacritic and that's just one example. OutKast, Ghostface, even Missy Elliott and several others also have albums that are rated higher by the same media that praises Eminem
What does any of that have to do with that album getting undeserved praise?
You said MMLP received undeserved praise because he's white. I pointed out that other rappers who aren't white have gotten greater praise than Em got for MMLP. The hype machine behind MMLP wasn't as quick to give Eminem perfect scores as perceived. At best, the praise for MMLP was generally favorable as opposed to universally acclaimed.
Black Rob, Bone Thugs, Snoop, Cam'ron arguably dropped better albums in 00 and no one talks about those albums as classics. -
And my point is that MMLP didn't warrant classic talk. It was a good album. There are plenty of other good albums which can be argued is as good if not better than MMLP than no one is calling a classic. To act like the marketing and hype behind him didn't play a part then you're being naive. So the fact that other albums got higher ratings is irrelevant to the discussion.georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »icecoldstew wrote: »Having a classic is ones opinion, him having one is not an unpopular opinion and u discrediting him for personal reasons over a mistake which he admitted is blasphemous.
He made a "mistake" cool. At 16 you should have a solid idea what racism is. A mistake is backing up too fast and hitting a parked car on the curb. Or leaving food on the stove too long and burning it. Spitting racist bars is not a mistake. He had to have thought about it, then wrote it on paper and then went in the booth and laid down the verse. He had plenty of time to think about it and not rap those lyrics.
MMLP is not a classic. It was a good album that got undeserved praised because he's white. For example Ghostface has dropped better albums that NOBODY CALLS CLASSICS.
He got some high ratings from some of the mainstream white media, but only a few of them have given him perfect scores. None of Eminem's albums are rated higher than 78 on Metacritic, Marshall Mather LP included. Even Rollingstone never gave Em a perfect score. Kanye's pretty much replaced Em in that regard because he has two albums with perfect scores. They even have one or two Ye albums in the 20 of their Greatest Albums of All Time list over Eminem. Every Kanye solo except 808's is rated higher than Em on Metacritic and that's just one example. OutKast, Ghostface, even Missy Elliott and several others also have albums that are rated higher by the same media that praises Eminem
What does any of that have to do with that album getting undeserved praise?
You said MMLP received undeserved praise because he's white. I pointed out that other rappers who aren't white have gotten greater praise than Em got for MMLP. The hype machine behind MMLP wasn't as quick to give Eminem perfect scores as perceived. At best, the praise for MMLP was generally favorable as opposed to universally acclaimed.
Black Rob, Bone Thugs, Snoop, Cam'ron arguably dropped better albums in 00 and no one talks about those albums as classics.
Those albums are the slept on, but there's other albums that are brought up from that year like Stankonia (which still stands as one of the most critically acclaimed albums of last decade), Supreme Clientele (another album that's held in high regard by critics), The Dynasty, Country Grammar, and to a lesser extent Train of Thought. Some of those are argued as classics.
Yes, marketing and hype play a role, but it didn't necessarily push the album into the classic conversation. It was other factors. The different interest groups that protested MMLP helped argue the impact of the album. There was a lot of white America who didn't exactly embrace Eminem with open arms. To many of them, he was a homophobe. To others, he was a misogynist. To others, he was the reflection of everything taboo and stereotypical of white America. Then there were songs like "Stan" and "The Way I Am".
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georgia boi wrote: »
And my point is that MMLP didn't warrant classic talk. It was a good album. There are plenty of other good albums which can be argued is as good if not better than MMLP than no one is calling a classic. To act like the marketing and hype behind him didn't play a part then you're being naive. So the fact that other albums got higher ratings is irrelevant to the discussion.georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »icecoldstew wrote: »Having a classic is ones opinion, him having one is not an unpopular opinion and u discrediting him for personal reasons over a mistake which he admitted is blasphemous.
He made a "mistake" cool. At 16 you should have a solid idea what racism is. A mistake is backing up too fast and hitting a parked car on the curb. Or leaving food on the stove too long and burning it. Spitting racist bars is not a mistake. He had to have thought about it, then wrote it on paper and then went in the booth and laid down the verse. He had plenty of time to think about it and not rap those lyrics.
MMLP is not a classic. It was a good album that got undeserved praised because he's white. For example Ghostface has dropped better albums that NOBODY CALLS CLASSICS.
He got some high ratings from some of the mainstream white media, but only a few of them have given him perfect scores. None of Eminem's albums are rated higher than 78 on Metacritic, Marshall Mather LP included. Even Rollingstone never gave Em a perfect score. Kanye's pretty much replaced Em in that regard because he has two albums with perfect scores. They even have one or two Ye albums in the 20 of their Greatest Albums of All Time list over Eminem. Every Kanye solo except 808's is rated higher than Em on Metacritic and that's just one example. OutKast, Ghostface, even Missy Elliott and several others also have albums that are rated higher by the same media that praises Eminem
What does any of that have to do with that album getting undeserved praise?
You said MMLP received undeserved praise because he's white. I pointed out that other rappers who aren't white have gotten greater praise than Em got for MMLP. The hype machine behind MMLP wasn't as quick to give Eminem perfect scores as perceived. At best, the praise for MMLP was generally favorable as opposed to universally acclaimed.
Black Rob, Bone Thugs, Snoop, Cam'ron arguably dropped better albums in 00 and no one talks about those albums as classics.
Those albums are the slept on, but there's other albums that are brought up from that year like Stankonia (which still stands as one of the most critically acclaimed albums of last decade), Supreme Clientele (another album that's held in high regard by critics), The Dynasty, Country Grammar, and to a lesser extent Train of Thought. Some of those are argued as classics.
Yes, marketing and hype play a role, but it didn't necessarily push the album into the classic conversation. It was other factors. The different interest groups that protested MMLP helped argue the impact of the album. There was a lot of white America who didn't exactly embrace Eminem with open arms. To many of them, he was a homophobe. To others, he was a misogynist. To others, he was the reflection of everything taboo and stereotypical of white America. Then there were songs like "Stan" and "The Way I Am".
None of the albums you listed are considered classics ( except SC) nor did they even get the same hype as MMLP. I have to disagree with you, everything surrounding that album pushed it as "classic". Him dissing pop stars, ? people protesting him, it all played a part. The actual album was good but all those factors played apart in it being overrated. -
georgia boi wrote: »
And my point is that MMLP didn't warrant classic talk. It was a good album. There are plenty of other good albums which can be argued is as good if not better than MMLP than no one is calling a classic. To act like the marketing and hype behind him didn't play a part then you're being naive. So the fact that other albums got higher ratings is irrelevant to the discussion.georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »icecoldstew wrote: »Having a classic is ones opinion, him having one is not an unpopular opinion and u discrediting him for personal reasons over a mistake which he admitted is blasphemous.
He made a "mistake" cool. At 16 you should have a solid idea what racism is. A mistake is backing up too fast and hitting a parked car on the curb. Or leaving food on the stove too long and burning it. Spitting racist bars is not a mistake. He had to have thought about it, then wrote it on paper and then went in the booth and laid down the verse. He had plenty of time to think about it and not rap those lyrics.
MMLP is not a classic. It was a good album that got undeserved praised because he's white. For example Ghostface has dropped better albums that NOBODY CALLS CLASSICS.
He got some high ratings from some of the mainstream white media, but only a few of them have given him perfect scores. None of Eminem's albums are rated higher than 78 on Metacritic, Marshall Mather LP included. Even Rollingstone never gave Em a perfect score. Kanye's pretty much replaced Em in that regard because he has two albums with perfect scores. They even have one or two Ye albums in the 20 of their Greatest Albums of All Time list over Eminem. Every Kanye solo except 808's is rated higher than Em on Metacritic and that's just one example. OutKast, Ghostface, even Missy Elliott and several others also have albums that are rated higher by the same media that praises Eminem
What does any of that have to do with that album getting undeserved praise?
You said MMLP received undeserved praise because he's white. I pointed out that other rappers who aren't white have gotten greater praise than Em got for MMLP. The hype machine behind MMLP wasn't as quick to give Eminem perfect scores as perceived. At best, the praise for MMLP was generally favorable as opposed to universally acclaimed.
Black Rob, Bone Thugs, Snoop, Cam'ron arguably dropped better albums in 00 and no one talks about those albums as classics.
Those albums are the slept on, but there's other albums that are brought up from that year like Stankonia (which still stands as one of the most critically acclaimed albums of last decade), Supreme Clientele (another album that's held in high regard by critics), The Dynasty, Country Grammar, and to a lesser extent Train of Thought. Some of those are argued as classics.
Yes, marketing and hype play a role, but it didn't necessarily push the album into the classic conversation. It was other factors. The different interest groups that protested MMLP helped argue the impact of the album. There was a lot of white America who didn't exactly embrace Eminem with open arms. To many of them, he was a homophobe. To others, he was a misogynist. To others, he was the reflection of everything taboo and stereotypical of white America. Then there were songs like "Stan" and "The Way I Am".
None of the albums you listed are considered classics ( except SC) nor did they even get the same hype as MMLP. I have to disagree with you, everything surrounding that album pushed it as "classic". Him dissing pop stars, ? people protesting him, it all played a part. The actual album was good but all those factors played apart in it being overrated.
People have argued several of those albums as classics. In regard to hype, there was Country Grammar and Stankonia. Both of those albums were huge deals in 2000 on par with MMLP.
Often, everything surrounding an album pushes it as classic. When people look back at Stillmatic and Blueprint, everything surrounding the albums in addition to the music pushes them as classic. Neither album is perfect, but they are still hailed as classic. -
georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »
And my point is that MMLP didn't warrant classic talk. It was a good album. There are plenty of other good albums which can be argued is as good if not better than MMLP than no one is calling a classic. To act like the marketing and hype behind him didn't play a part then you're being naive. So the fact that other albums got higher ratings is irrelevant to the discussion.georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »icecoldstew wrote: »Having a classic is ones opinion, him having one is not an unpopular opinion and u discrediting him for personal reasons over a mistake which he admitted is blasphemous.
He made a "mistake" cool. At 16 you should have a solid idea what racism is. A mistake is backing up too fast and hitting a parked car on the curb. Or leaving food on the stove too long and burning it. Spitting racist bars is not a mistake. He had to have thought about it, then wrote it on paper and then went in the booth and laid down the verse. He had plenty of time to think about it and not rap those lyrics.
MMLP is not a classic. It was a good album that got undeserved praised because he's white. For example Ghostface has dropped better albums that NOBODY CALLS CLASSICS.
He got some high ratings from some of the mainstream white media, but only a few of them have given him perfect scores. None of Eminem's albums are rated higher than 78 on Metacritic, Marshall Mather LP included. Even Rollingstone never gave Em a perfect score. Kanye's pretty much replaced Em in that regard because he has two albums with perfect scores. They even have one or two Ye albums in the 20 of their Greatest Albums of All Time list over Eminem. Every Kanye solo except 808's is rated higher than Em on Metacritic and that's just one example. OutKast, Ghostface, even Missy Elliott and several others also have albums that are rated higher by the same media that praises Eminem
What does any of that have to do with that album getting undeserved praise?
You said MMLP received undeserved praise because he's white. I pointed out that other rappers who aren't white have gotten greater praise than Em got for MMLP. The hype machine behind MMLP wasn't as quick to give Eminem perfect scores as perceived. At best, the praise for MMLP was generally favorable as opposed to universally acclaimed.
Black Rob, Bone Thugs, Snoop, Cam'ron arguably dropped better albums in 00 and no one talks about those albums as classics.
Those albums are the slept on, but there's other albums that are brought up from that year like Stankonia (which still stands as one of the most critically acclaimed albums of last decade), Supreme Clientele (another album that's held in high regard by critics), The Dynasty, Country Grammar, and to a lesser extent Train of Thought. Some of those are argued as classics.
Yes, marketing and hype play a role, but it didn't necessarily push the album into the classic conversation. It was other factors. The different interest groups that protested MMLP helped argue the impact of the album. There was a lot of white America who didn't exactly embrace Eminem with open arms. To many of them, he was a homophobe. To others, he was a misogynist. To others, he was the reflection of everything taboo and stereotypical of white America. Then there were songs like "Stan" and "The Way I Am".
None of the albums you listed are considered classics ( except SC) nor did they even get the same hype as MMLP. I have to disagree with you, everything surrounding that album pushed it as "classic". Him dissing pop stars, ? people protesting him, it all played a part. The actual album was good but all those factors played apart in it being overrated.
People have argued several of those albums as classics. In regard to hype, there was Country Grammar and Stankonia. Both of those albums were huge deals in 2000 on par with MMLP.
Often, everything surrounding an album pushes it as classic. When people look back at Stillmatic and Blueprint, everything surrounding the albums in addition to the music pushes them as classic. Neither album is perfect, but they are still hailed as classic.
Ask most Outkast fans they don't view Stankonia as a classic. Country Grammar was not a classic. Nelly had hits though. Eminem had hype but the overall content of the album makes it fall short. Blueprint and Stillmatic had hype but sonically it delivered. Making the hype justified. -
I would say that the best white rapper is Paul Wall
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georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »
And my point is that MMLP didn't warrant classic talk. It was a good album. There are plenty of other good albums which can be argued is as good if not better than MMLP than no one is calling a classic. To act like the marketing and hype behind him didn't play a part then you're being naive. So the fact that other albums got higher ratings is irrelevant to the discussion.georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »icecoldstew wrote: »Having a classic is ones opinion, him having one is not an unpopular opinion and u discrediting him for personal reasons over a mistake which he admitted is blasphemous.
He made a "mistake" cool. At 16 you should have a solid idea what racism is. A mistake is backing up too fast and hitting a parked car on the curb. Or leaving food on the stove too long and burning it. Spitting racist bars is not a mistake. He had to have thought about it, then wrote it on paper and then went in the booth and laid down the verse. He had plenty of time to think about it and not rap those lyrics.
MMLP is not a classic. It was a good album that got undeserved praised because he's white. For example Ghostface has dropped better albums that NOBODY CALLS CLASSICS.
He got some high ratings from some of the mainstream white media, but only a few of them have given him perfect scores. None of Eminem's albums are rated higher than 78 on Metacritic, Marshall Mather LP included. Even Rollingstone never gave Em a perfect score. Kanye's pretty much replaced Em in that regard because he has two albums with perfect scores. They even have one or two Ye albums in the 20 of their Greatest Albums of All Time list over Eminem. Every Kanye solo except 808's is rated higher than Em on Metacritic and that's just one example. OutKast, Ghostface, even Missy Elliott and several others also have albums that are rated higher by the same media that praises Eminem
What does any of that have to do with that album getting undeserved praise?
You said MMLP received undeserved praise because he's white. I pointed out that other rappers who aren't white have gotten greater praise than Em got for MMLP. The hype machine behind MMLP wasn't as quick to give Eminem perfect scores as perceived. At best, the praise for MMLP was generally favorable as opposed to universally acclaimed.
Black Rob, Bone Thugs, Snoop, Cam'ron arguably dropped better albums in 00 and no one talks about those albums as classics.
Those albums are the slept on, but there's other albums that are brought up from that year like Stankonia (which still stands as one of the most critically acclaimed albums of last decade), Supreme Clientele (another album that's held in high regard by critics), The Dynasty, Country Grammar, and to a lesser extent Train of Thought. Some of those are argued as classics.
Yes, marketing and hype play a role, but it didn't necessarily push the album into the classic conversation. It was other factors. The different interest groups that protested MMLP helped argue the impact of the album. There was a lot of white America who didn't exactly embrace Eminem with open arms. To many of them, he was a homophobe. To others, he was a misogynist. To others, he was the reflection of everything taboo and stereotypical of white America. Then there were songs like "Stan" and "The Way I Am".
None of the albums you listed are considered classics ( except SC) nor did they even get the same hype as MMLP. I have to disagree with you, everything surrounding that album pushed it as "classic". Him dissing pop stars, ? people protesting him, it all played a part. The actual album was good but all those factors played apart in it being overrated.
People have argued several of those albums as classics. In regard to hype, there was Country Grammar and Stankonia. Both of those albums were huge deals in 2000 on par with MMLP.
Often, everything surrounding an album pushes it as classic. When people look back at Stillmatic and Blueprint, everything surrounding the albums in addition to the music pushes them as classic. Neither album is perfect, but they are still hailed as classic.
Ask most Outkast fans they don't view Stankonia as a classic. Country Grammar was not a classic. Nelly had hits though. Eminem had hype but the overall content of the album makes it fall short. Blueprint and Stillmatic had hype but sonically it delivered. Making the hype justified.
I don't know about most. Personally, I don't consider Stankonia a classic, but there are Kast fans that do. It's an album that's been argued as a classic. Same with Country Grammar. I agree that Blueprint and Stillmatic delivered, but we've all heard the "BP and Stillmatic are only classic because of the beef" argument. Ever since 2001, there's been knocks against both from having wack songs to one being classic b/c of the production to one not being classic because of the production. On the other hand, it could be argued that MMLP delivered sonically even though there's obvious knocks against that album as well. -
The Recipe wrote: »Em is a gimmick, if he was black he would be AZ or Ras Kass since he is white he is considered the second coming. History says if you are white and can imitate black music you will be uber successful, I.e Elvis, Justin Timberlake, Adele, Eminem etc.. BTW Rock and Roll has gone to ? since white folks got a hold of it SMH
"If em was black he'd be Muhammad Ali."- Rakim
Em with a real ? perspective and content? Laaaaaawd we are not worthy. ? would have had to create a new genre and just let him have rap to himself
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ReppinTime wrote: »The Recipe wrote: »Em is a gimmick, if he was black he would be AZ or Ras Kass since he is white he is considered the second coming. History says if you are white and can imitate black music you will be uber successful, I.e Elvis, Justin Timberlake, Adele, Eminem etc.. BTW Rock and Roll has gone to ? since white folks got a hold of it SMH
"If em was black he'd be Muhammad Ali."- Rakim
Em with a real ? perspective and content? Laaaaaawd we are not worthy. ? would have had to create a new genre and just let him have rap to himself
The bolded statement is biased considering Rakim and Em, were label mates when Rakim said this. -
If em was black he woulda had a hard time gettin in the maimstream.... Tech tech tech tech n9ne
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so cuz Rakim was on the same label as em when he said that it dont count?
yet Ra is the fore father to a lot of your favorite rappers -
ItzGravitation wrote: »so cuz Rakim was on the same label as em when he said that it dont count?
yet Ra is the fore father to a lot of your favorite rappers
Go to webster.com and look up bias. -
The Recipe wrote: »ItzGravitation wrote: »so cuz Rakim was on the same label as em when he said that it dont count?
yet Ra is the fore father to a lot of your favorite rappers
Go to webster.com and look up bias.
i know what bias is.
so by the defintion a black person cant say Nas>>>Em
A latin cant say Fat Joe>>>50 Cent.
anyone can say bias for any reason -
Everyone has a bias. People need to understand that.
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ItzGravitation wrote: »The Recipe wrote: »ItzGravitation wrote: »so cuz Rakim was on the same label as em when he said that it dont count?
yet Ra is the fore father to a lot of your favorite rappers
Go to webster.com and look up bias.
i know what bias is.
so by the defintion a black person cant say Nas>>>Em
A latin cant say Fat Joe>>>50 Cent.
anyone can say bias for any reasonEveryone has a bias. People need to understand that.
Yes everyone is bias and your label mate or friend will definitely have a self serving bias. -
just because someone is a label mate dont make them bias.
Jeezy and Nas had their beef. both were label mates
yall will use any excuse to not only discredit Em but anyone who bigs him up, even if its a legend in hip hop.
You think Rakim dont know good music/lyrical ability when he hear it? -
Can't deny the self serving bias.
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I like eminem but Shad is nicer. Lupe is nicer. Kendrick has potential to be nicer. I think Common is equivalent to em in terms of album consistency.
Em is not the top of the mountain.
Especially if you throw in objective measurements of skill. -
georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »
And my point is that MMLP didn't warrant classic talk. It was a good album. There are plenty of other good albums which can be argued is as good if not better than MMLP than no one is calling a classic. To act like the marketing and hype behind him didn't play a part then you're being naive. So the fact that other albums got higher ratings is irrelevant to the discussion.georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »icecoldstew wrote: »Having a classic is ones opinion, him having one is not an unpopular opinion and u discrediting him for personal reasons over a mistake which he admitted is blasphemous.
He made a "mistake" cool. At 16 you should have a solid idea what racism is. A mistake is backing up too fast and hitting a parked car on the curb. Or leaving food on the stove too long and burning it. Spitting racist bars is not a mistake. He had to have thought about it, then wrote it on paper and then went in the booth and laid down the verse. He had plenty of time to think about it and not rap those lyrics.
MMLP is not a classic. It was a good album that got undeserved praised because he's white. For example Ghostface has dropped better albums that NOBODY CALLS CLASSICS.
He got some high ratings from some of the mainstream white media, but only a few of them have given him perfect scores. None of Eminem's albums are rated higher than 78 on Metacritic, Marshall Mather LP included. Even Rollingstone never gave Em a perfect score. Kanye's pretty much replaced Em in that regard because he has two albums with perfect scores. They even have one or two Ye albums in the 20 of their Greatest Albums of All Time list over Eminem. Every Kanye solo except 808's is rated higher than Em on Metacritic and that's just one example. OutKast, Ghostface, even Missy Elliott and several others also have albums that are rated higher by the same media that praises Eminem
What does any of that have to do with that album getting undeserved praise?
You said MMLP received undeserved praise because he's white. I pointed out that other rappers who aren't white have gotten greater praise than Em got for MMLP. The hype machine behind MMLP wasn't as quick to give Eminem perfect scores as perceived. At best, the praise for MMLP was generally favorable as opposed to universally acclaimed.
Black Rob, Bone Thugs, Snoop, Cam'ron arguably dropped better albums in 00 and no one talks about those albums as classics.
Those albums are the slept on, but there's other albums that are brought up from that year like Stankonia (which still stands as one of the most critically acclaimed albums of last decade), Supreme Clientele (another album that's held in high regard by critics), The Dynasty, Country Grammar, and to a lesser extent Train of Thought. Some of those are argued as classics.
Yes, marketing and hype play a role, but it didn't necessarily push the album into the classic conversation. It was other factors. The different interest groups that protested MMLP helped argue the impact of the album. There was a lot of white America who didn't exactly embrace Eminem with open arms. To many of them, he was a homophobe. To others, he was a misogynist. To others, he was the reflection of everything taboo and stereotypical of white America. Then there were songs like "Stan" and "The Way I Am".
None of the albums you listed are considered classics ( except SC) nor did they even get the same hype as MMLP. I have to disagree with you, everything surrounding that album pushed it as "classic". Him dissing pop stars, ? people protesting him, it all played a part. The actual album was good but all those factors played apart in it being overrated.
People have argued several of those albums as classics. In regard to hype, there was Country Grammar and Stankonia. Both of those albums were huge deals in 2000 on par with MMLP.
Often, everything surrounding an album pushes it as classic. When people look back at Stillmatic and Blueprint, everything surrounding the albums in addition to the music pushes them as classic. Neither album is perfect, but they are still hailed as classic.
Ask most Outkast fans they don't view Stankonia as a classic. Country Grammar was not a classic. Nelly had hits though. Eminem had hype but the overall content of the album makes it fall short. Blueprint and Stillmatic had hype but sonically it delivered. Making the hype justified.
I don't know about most. Personally, I don't consider Stankonia a classic, but there are Kast fans that do. It's an album that's been argued as a classic. Same with Country Grammar. I agree that Blueprint and Stillmatic delivered, but we've all heard the "BP and Stillmatic are only classic because of the beef" argument. Ever since 2001, there's been knocks against both from having wack songs to one being classic b/c of the production to one not being classic because of the production. On the other hand, it could be argued that MMLP delivered sonically even though there's obvious knocks against that album as well.
There's no point in debating with him, I smh at myself for doing it this whole time knowing that he "knows" Eminem is a racist lol -
ItzGravitation wrote: »just because someone is a label mate dont make them bias.
Jeezy and Nas had their beef. both were label mates
yall will use any excuse to not only discredit Em but anyone who bigs him up, even if its a legend in hip hop.
You think Rakim dont know good music/lyrical ability when he hear it?
nas and jeezy were label mates coincidentally on a major label. both rakim and em were on aftermath. i mean ? there were only like 5 artists on aftermath, def jam had 10's of artists smh -
icecoldstew wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »
And my point is that MMLP didn't warrant classic talk. It was a good album. There are plenty of other good albums which can be argued is as good if not better than MMLP than no one is calling a classic. To act like the marketing and hype behind him didn't play a part then you're being naive. So the fact that other albums got higher ratings is irrelevant to the discussion.georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »icecoldstew wrote: »Having a classic is ones opinion, him having one is not an unpopular opinion and u discrediting him for personal reasons over a mistake which he admitted is blasphemous.
He made a "mistake" cool. At 16 you should have a solid idea what racism is. A mistake is backing up too fast and hitting a parked car on the curb. Or leaving food on the stove too long and burning it. Spitting racist bars is not a mistake. He had to have thought about it, then wrote it on paper and then went in the booth and laid down the verse. He had plenty of time to think about it and not rap those lyrics.
MMLP is not a classic. It was a good album that got undeserved praised because he's white. For example Ghostface has dropped better albums that NOBODY CALLS CLASSICS.
He got some high ratings from some of the mainstream white media, but only a few of them have given him perfect scores. None of Eminem's albums are rated higher than 78 on Metacritic, Marshall Mather LP included. Even Rollingstone never gave Em a perfect score. Kanye's pretty much replaced Em in that regard because he has two albums with perfect scores. They even have one or two Ye albums in the 20 of their Greatest Albums of All Time list over Eminem. Every Kanye solo except 808's is rated higher than Em on Metacritic and that's just one example. OutKast, Ghostface, even Missy Elliott and several others also have albums that are rated higher by the same media that praises Eminem
What does any of that have to do with that album getting undeserved praise?
You said MMLP received undeserved praise because he's white. I pointed out that other rappers who aren't white have gotten greater praise than Em got for MMLP. The hype machine behind MMLP wasn't as quick to give Eminem perfect scores as perceived. At best, the praise for MMLP was generally favorable as opposed to universally acclaimed.
Black Rob, Bone Thugs, Snoop, Cam'ron arguably dropped better albums in 00 and no one talks about those albums as classics.
Those albums are the slept on, but there's other albums that are brought up from that year like Stankonia (which still stands as one of the most critically acclaimed albums of last decade), Supreme Clientele (another album that's held in high regard by critics), The Dynasty, Country Grammar, and to a lesser extent Train of Thought. Some of those are argued as classics.
Yes, marketing and hype play a role, but it didn't necessarily push the album into the classic conversation. It was other factors. The different interest groups that protested MMLP helped argue the impact of the album. There was a lot of white America who didn't exactly embrace Eminem with open arms. To many of them, he was a homophobe. To others, he was a misogynist. To others, he was the reflection of everything taboo and stereotypical of white America. Then there were songs like "Stan" and "The Way I Am".
None of the albums you listed are considered classics ( except SC) nor did they even get the same hype as MMLP. I have to disagree with you, everything surrounding that album pushed it as "classic". Him dissing pop stars, ? people protesting him, it all played a part. The actual album was good but all those factors played apart in it being overrated.
People have argued several of those albums as classics. In regard to hype, there was Country Grammar and Stankonia. Both of those albums were huge deals in 2000 on par with MMLP.
Often, everything surrounding an album pushes it as classic. When people look back at Stillmatic and Blueprint, everything surrounding the albums in addition to the music pushes them as classic. Neither album is perfect, but they are still hailed as classic.
Ask most Outkast fans they don't view Stankonia as a classic. Country Grammar was not a classic. Nelly had hits though. Eminem had hype but the overall content of the album makes it fall short. Blueprint and Stillmatic had hype but sonically it delivered. Making the hype justified.
I don't know about most. Personally, I don't consider Stankonia a classic, but there are Kast fans that do. It's an album that's been argued as a classic. Same with Country Grammar. I agree that Blueprint and Stillmatic delivered, but we've all heard the "BP and Stillmatic are only classic because of the beef" argument. Ever since 2001, there's been knocks against both from having wack songs to one being classic b/c of the production to one not being classic because of the production. On the other hand, it could be argued that MMLP delivered sonically even though there's obvious knocks against that album as well.
There's no point in debating with him, I smh at myself for doing it this whole time knowing that he "knows" Eminem is a racist lol
Does he have a racist tape? You act like I made it up. It ain't like I'm accusing every white person of being racist. You act like I'm singling out Eminem. The difference is that I'm not buying his excuse. -
I wonder if the alleged other tapes come out what the defense will be for them as multiple tapes shows a train of thought, and if the timeline gets further substantiated showing all were made over a few years instead of just one song that one time when he was Upset will the same arguments be made by the defenders/dismissers of the acts???icecoldstew wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »
And my point is that MMLP didn't warrant classic talk. It was a good album. There are plenty of other good albums which can be argued is as good if not better than MMLP than no one is calling a classic. To act like the marketing and hype behind him didn't play a part then you're being naive. So the fact that other albums got higher ratings is irrelevant to the discussion.georgia boi wrote: »georgia boi wrote: »icecoldstew wrote: »Having a classic is ones opinion, him having one is not an unpopular opinion and u discrediting him for personal reasons over a mistake which he admitted is blasphemous.
He made a "mistake" cool. At 16 you should have a solid idea what racism is. A mistake is backing up too fast and hitting a parked car on the curb. Or leaving food on the stove too long and burning it. Spitting racist bars is not a mistake. He had to have thought about it, then wrote it on paper and then went in the booth and laid down the verse. He had plenty of time to think about it and not rap those lyrics.
MMLP is not a classic. It was a good album that got undeserved praised because he's white. For example Ghostface has dropped better albums that NOBODY CALLS CLASSICS.
He got some high ratings from some of the mainstream white media, but only a few of them have given him perfect scores. None of Eminem's albums are rated higher than 78 on Metacritic, Marshall Mather LP included. Even Rollingstone never gave Em a perfect score. Kanye's pretty much replaced Em in that regard because he has two albums with perfect scores. They even have one or two Ye albums in the 20 of their Greatest Albums of All Time list over Eminem. Every Kanye solo except 808's is rated higher than Em on Metacritic and that's just one example. OutKast, Ghostface, even Missy Elliott and several others also have albums that are rated higher by the same media that praises Eminem
What does any of that have to do with that album getting undeserved praise?
You said MMLP received undeserved praise because he's white. I pointed out that other rappers who aren't white have gotten greater praise than Em got for MMLP. The hype machine behind MMLP wasn't as quick to give Eminem perfect scores as perceived. At best, the praise for MMLP was generally favorable as opposed to universally acclaimed.
Black Rob, Bone Thugs, Snoop, Cam'ron arguably dropped better albums in 00 and no one talks about those albums as classics.
Those albums are the slept on, but there's other albums that are brought up from that year like Stankonia (which still stands as one of the most critically acclaimed albums of last decade), Supreme Clientele (another album that's held in high regard by critics), The Dynasty, Country Grammar, and to a lesser extent Train of Thought. Some of those are argued as classics.
Yes, marketing and hype play a role, but it didn't necessarily push the album into the classic conversation. It was other factors. The different interest groups that protested MMLP helped argue the impact of the album. There was a lot of white America who didn't exactly embrace Eminem with open arms. To many of them, he was a homophobe. To others, he was a misogynist. To others, he was the reflection of everything taboo and stereotypical of white America. Then there were songs like "Stan" and "The Way I Am".
None of the albums you listed are considered classics ( except SC) nor did they even get the same hype as MMLP. I have to disagree with you, everything surrounding that album pushed it as "classic". Him dissing pop stars, ? people protesting him, it all played a part. The actual album was good but all those factors played apart in it being overrated.
People have argued several of those albums as classics. In regard to hype, there was Country Grammar and Stankonia. Both of those albums were huge deals in 2000 on par with MMLP.
Often, everything surrounding an album pushes it as classic. When people look back at Stillmatic and Blueprint, everything surrounding the albums in addition to the music pushes them as classic. Neither album is perfect, but they are still hailed as classic.
Ask most Outkast fans they don't view Stankonia as a classic. Country Grammar was not a classic. Nelly had hits though. Eminem had hype but the overall content of the album makes it fall short. Blueprint and Stillmatic had hype but sonically it delivered. Making the hype justified.
I don't know about most. Personally, I don't consider Stankonia a classic, but there are Kast fans that do. It's an album that's been argued as a classic. Same with Country Grammar. I agree that Blueprint and Stillmatic delivered, but we've all heard the "BP and Stillmatic are only classic because of the beef" argument. Ever since 2001, there's been knocks against both from having wack songs to one being classic b/c of the production to one not being classic because of the production. On the other hand, it could be argued that MMLP delivered sonically even though there's obvious knocks against that album as well.
There's no point in debating with him, I smh at myself for doing it this whole time knowing that he "knows" Eminem is a racist lol
Does he have a racist tape? You act like I made it up. It ain't like I'm accusing every white person of being racist. You act like I'm singling out Eminem. The difference is that I'm not buying his excuse.
-
Where have u been at this whole time my black panther brotha?
This discussion has been closed.