Redemption
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jono
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Do you believe a person can be redeemed for prior bad actions?
If so, to what extent? Could a murder or a child molester ever be truly redeemed for instance?
This is not the same as rehabilitation (which signifies a successful change in behavior) or forgiveness (which signifies that the person is forgiven for transgressions).
The path of Redemption would be the process inbetween rehabilitation and forgiveness, where the person has already pledged to change their behavior but is actively searching for forgiveness through doing good works or bettering themselves (depending on the offense of course).
Example in the spoiler:
If so, to what extent? Could a murder or a child molester ever be truly redeemed for instance?
This is not the same as rehabilitation (which signifies a successful change in behavior) or forgiveness (which signifies that the person is forgiven for transgressions).
The path of Redemption would be the process inbetween rehabilitation and forgiveness, where the person has already pledged to change their behavior but is actively searching for forgiveness through doing good works or bettering themselves (depending on the offense of course).
Example in the spoiler:
i have an aunt that was a drug addict, over the years of her youth she was a ? poor mother who basically abandoned both her daughters, she alienated herself from her family by stealing, becoming temperamental and violent.
However, after seeking help through treatment centers she got on some medication for bipolar disorder and stopped using drugs. Unfortunately, this was not enough as her children are now adults and they still have a contentious relationship. My aunt has pretty much given up winning her daughters back so she turned her attention to being a better grandmother to their kids in he hopes that people will see how much she has changed since her days as a druggie.
However, after seeking help through treatment centers she got on some medication for bipolar disorder and stopped using drugs. Unfortunately, this was not enough as her children are now adults and they still have a contentious relationship. My aunt has pretty much given up winning her daughters back so she turned her attention to being a better grandmother to their kids in he hopes that people will see how much she has changed since her days as a druggie.
Comments
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Redemption is only possible if the people that were impacted by the offenders actions/misdeeds/words/etc allow that person to truly make amends for past sins.
IMO Redemption has less to do with the offender and more to do with people that were hurt by the offender -
I agree that it has more to do with the victims and proving to them that change has happened but some people are vengeful.
In fact, we live in a vengeful society. We punish criminals way beyond legal the means. For instance it's okay to discriminate against felons, it's acceptable to flash the names and faces of sex offenders around and this doesn't even take into account anything unique about the situations or the individual in question. -
Murderer maybe, but child molester? They don't really change.
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If a person's a child molester, there's no room for any type of forgiveness
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My aunt shot and killed my uncle (her brother) for trying to save her from an abusive boyfriend (her ? ) I don't care about that ? , I will never forgive her. She did six years, that ? look like a gremlin now, she turned into a demon, I know she can't sleep at night. True Story
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that's a ? example of redemption. But yes, it's possible.
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Nope.....Can't take away the Hurt & Effect from the person's actions.
There's NO WAY you can redeem taking a life or the psychological effects of being molested . -
I agree that it has more to do with the victims and proving to them that change has happened but some people are vengeful.
In fact, we live in a vengeful society. We punish criminals way beyond legal the means. For instance it's okay to discriminate against felons, it's acceptable to flash the names and faces of sex offenders around and this doesn't even take into account anything unique about the situations or the individual in question.
I disagree
I think the punishment fits the crime......but the problem is the process doesn't really give people their due diligence before they get caught up in the system
your conviction depends too much on your resources that's why it ends up leaving poorer people disadvantaged and more likely to be convicted because they don't have access to decent legal representation
but if you get caught molesting a child and they plaster your face on a website I got no compassion for you
and people are going to discriminate naturally anyways, so why even set yourself up to be a felon to begin with -
My aunt shot and killed my uncle (her brother) for trying to save her from an abusive boyfriend (her ? ) I don't care about that ? , I will never forgive her. She did six years, that ? look like a gremlin now, she turned into a demon, I know she can't sleep at night. True Story
Gotdamn. I can't even say I blame you. That's some difficult ? to deal with.JonnyRoccIT wrote: »Nope.....Can't take away the Hurt & Effect from the person's actions.
There's NO WAY you can redeem taking a life or the psychological effects of being molested .
People have done a good job of the former already. There are all sorts of excuses for killing people that are acceptable.
As far as being a victim of molestation, I honestly can't think of something worse that can happen to a kid. I have seen people forgive their molesters though. It's been done.mryounggun wrote: »that's a ? example of redemption. But yes, it's possible.
Okay, thanks for that but how about someone like Tookie Williams? He reportedly wanted to make amends for helping to create and popularize being a gangbanger. People believed he was doing it to spare himself from execution...and that may have been true but we will never know now.
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Would you consider Robert Downy Jr or Charlie Sheen people of redemption?
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There is absolutely no redemption or forgiveness for a child molester. I feel like all of them should be shot once found guilty.
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As public figures I suppose so. Their ability to work in their field is based on public perception of them.Would you consider Robert Downy Jr or Charlie Sheen people of redemption?blakfyahking wrote: »I agree that it has more to do with the victims and proving to them that change has happened but some people are vengeful.
In fact, we live in a vengeful society. We punish criminals way beyond legal the means. For instance it's okay to discriminate against felons, it's acceptable to flash the names and faces of sex offenders around and this doesn't even take into account anything unique about the situations or the individual in question.
I disagree
I think the punishment fits the crime......but the problem is the process doesn't really give people their due diligence before they get caught up in the system
your conviction depends too much on your resources that's why it ends up leaving poorer people disadvantaged and more likely to be convicted because they don't have access to decent legal representation
but if you get caught molesting a child and they plaster your face on a website I got no compassion for you
and people are going to discriminate naturally anyways, so why even set yourself up to be a felon to begin with
As long as we live in a society where you can get life for selling weed that will never be true. Besides laws differ from state to state.
We shouldn't be okay with felons getting discriminated against either, most criminals commit crimes during their "young and dumb" stage of early adulthood that ? shouldn't still be holding them back 20 years later. Prison is supposed to be the punishment, but breaking the law pretty much means you are no longer a human being and that's inappropriate.
I don't think it's a matter of compassion either. It's a matter of circumstance. There's a difference between some ? in a white van snatching kids off the playground and people being lied on, having convictions overturned and still have that on their record. -
My aunt shot and killed my uncle (her brother) for trying to save her from an abusive boyfriend (her ? ) I don't care about that ? , I will never forgive her. She did six years, that ? look like a gremlin now, she turned into a demon, I know she can't sleep at night. True Story
Gotdamn. I can't even say I blame you. That's some difficult ? to deal with.JonnyRoccIT wrote: »Nope.....Can't take away the Hurt & Effect from the person's actions.
There's NO WAY you can redeem taking a life or the psychological effects of being molested .
People have done a good job of the former already. There are all sorts of excuses for killing people that are acceptable.
As far as being a victim of molestation, I honestly can't think of something worse that can happen to a kid. I have seen people forgive their molesters though. It's been done.mryounggun wrote: »that's a ? example of redemption. But yes, it's possible.
Okay, thanks for that but how about someone like Tookie Williams? He reportedly wanted to make amends for helping to create and popularize being a gangbanger. People believed he was doing it to spare himself from execution...and that may have been true but we will never know now.
Tookie Williams was executed by the Terminator (Arnold Schwarzenegger) I remember he gave the final word when he was the Governor of California. I don't care for Tookie though, he is one of the founding members of the crips. Who Terrorised the black community for years. They represent Genocide of their own people, They made the Ku Klux ? proud. -
As public figures I suppose so. Their ability to work in their field is based on public perception of them.Would you consider Robert Downy Jr or Charlie Sheen people of redemption?blakfyahking wrote: »I agree that it has more to do with the victims and proving to them that change has happened but some people are vengeful.
In fact, we live in a vengeful society. We punish criminals way beyond legal the means. For instance it's okay to discriminate against felons, it's acceptable to flash the names and faces of sex offenders around and this doesn't even take into account anything unique about the situations or the individual in question.
I disagree
I think the punishment fits the crime......but the problem is the process doesn't really give people their due diligence before they get caught up in the system
your conviction depends too much on your resources that's why it ends up leaving poorer people disadvantaged and more likely to be convicted because they don't have access to decent legal representation
but if you get caught molesting a child and they plaster your face on a website I got no compassion for you
and people are going to discriminate naturally anyways, so why even set yourself up to be a felon to begin with
As long as we live in a society where you can get life for selling weed that will never be true. Besides laws differ from state to state.
We shouldn't be okay with felons getting discriminated against either, most criminals commit crimes during their "young and dumb" stage of early adulthood that ? shouldn't still be holding them back 20 years later. Prison is supposed to be the punishment, but breaking the law pretty much means you are no longer a human being and that's inappropriate.
I don't think it's a matter of compassion either. It's a matter of circumstance. There's a difference between some ? in a white van snatching kids off the playground and people being lied on, having convictions overturned and still have that on their record.
so I guess you ignored what I said about process
so if you know what the law is, but then you still break it
somebody else should be required to still have compassion?
reality is that actions have consequences
law abiding upstanding dudes get discriminated against, so I could care less about a felon wanting sympathy
young and dumb don't excuse ? -
My aunt shot and killed my uncle (her brother) for trying to save her from an abusive boyfriend (her ? ) I don't care about that ? , I will never forgive her. She did six years, that ? look like a gremlin now, she turned into a demon, I know she can't sleep at night. True Story
Gotdamn. I can't even say I blame you. That's some difficult ? to deal with.JonnyRoccIT wrote: »Nope.....Can't take away the Hurt & Effect from the person's actions.
There's NO WAY you can redeem taking a life or the psychological effects of being molested .
People have done a good job of the former already. There are all sorts of excuses for killing people that are acceptable.
As far as being a victim of molestation, I honestly can't think of something worse that can happen to a kid. I have seen people forgive their molesters though. It's been done.mryounggun wrote: »that's a ? example of redemption. But yes, it's possible.
Okay, thanks for that but how about someone like Tookie Williams? He reportedly wanted to make amends for helping to create and popularize being a gangbanger. People believed he was doing it to spare himself from execution...and that may have been true but we will never know now.
Tookie Williams was executed by the Terminator (Arnold Schwarzenegger) I remember he gave the final word when he was the Governor of California. I don't care for Tookie though, he is one of the founding members of the crips. Who Terrorised the black community for years. They represent Genocide of their own people, They made the Ku Klux ? proud.
Yeah I don't ? with Tookie either but there seemed to be a lot of people who bought into what he was saying. I remember somewhat of an uproar when he was executed, didnt really upset me and I'm anti-death penalty.
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That "forgive and forget" ? is cliché. If a person did some ? up ? , and wants to change, that's cool and all. But you'd be a fool not to remember what that person is capable of.
That said, I still do believe people can change. -
My aunt shot and killed my uncle (her brother) for trying to save her from an abusive boyfriend (her ? ) I don't care about that ? , I will never forgive her. She did six years, that ? look like a gremlin now, she turned into a demon, I know she can't sleep at night. True Story
Gotdamn. I can't even say I blame you. That's some difficult ? to deal with.JonnyRoccIT wrote: »Nope.....Can't take away the Hurt & Effect from the person's actions.
There's NO WAY you can redeem taking a life or the psychological effects of being molested .
People have done a good job of the former already. There are all sorts of excuses for killing people that are acceptable.
As far as being a victim of molestation, I honestly can't think of something worse that can happen to a kid. I have seen people forgive their molesters though. It's been done.mryounggun wrote: »that's a ? example of redemption. But yes, it's possible.
Okay, thanks for that but how about someone like Tookie Williams? He reportedly wanted to make amends for helping to create and popularize being a gangbanger. People believed he was doing it to spare himself from execution...and that may have been true but we will never know now.
Tookie Williams was executed by the Terminator (Arnold Schwarzenegger) I remember he gave the final word when he was the Governor of California. I don't care for Tookie though, he is one of the founding members of the crips. Who Terrorised the black community for years. They represent Genocide of their own people, They made the Ku Klux ? proud.
Yeah I don't ? with Tookie either but there seemed to be a lot of people who bought into what he was saying. I remember somewhat of an uproar when he was executed, didnt really upset me and I'm anti-death penalty.
I shed not one tear, I was laughing at the muthafuckas that was though. I'm like "what you sad for, they gave him a movie, Jamie Fox starring in it, lol"
http://youtu.be/xxbBhTq8nNQ -
My aunt shot and killed my uncle (her brother) for trying to save her from an abusive boyfriend (her ? ) I don't care about that ? , I will never forgive her. She did six years, that ? look like a gremlin now, she turned into a demon, I know she can't sleep at night. True Story
Gotdamn. I can't even say I blame you. That's some difficult ? to deal with.JonnyRoccIT wrote: »Nope.....Can't take away the Hurt & Effect from the person's actions.
There's NO WAY you can redeem taking a life or the psychological effects of being molested .
People have done a good job of the former already. There are all sorts of excuses for killing people that are acceptable.
As far as being a victim of molestation, I honestly can't think of something worse that can happen to a kid. I have seen people forgive their molesters though. It's been done.mryounggun wrote: »that's a ? example of redemption. But yes, it's possible.
Okay, thanks for that but how about someone like Tookie Williams? He reportedly wanted to make amends for helping to create and popularize being a gangbanger. People believed he was doing it to spare himself from execution...and that may have been true but we will never know now.
Tookie Williams was executed by the Terminator (Arnold Schwarzenegger) I remember he gave the final word when he was the Governor of California. I don't care for Tookie though, he is one of the founding members of the crips. Who Terrorised the black community for years. They represent Genocide of their own people, They made the Ku Klux ? proud.
Yeah I don't ? with Tookie either but there seemed to be a lot of people who bought into what he was saying. I remember somewhat of an uproar when he was executed, didnt really upset me and I'm anti-death penalty.
I shed not one tear, I was laughing at the muthafuckas that was though. I'm like "what you sad for, they gave him a movie, Jamie Fox starring in it, lol"http://youtu.be/xxbBhTq8nNQ
Right. I thought homie was dead already when I heard about them tryna ? him. I still can't believe they made a movie about dude either.
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A person can definitely be redeemed from their bad actions.
It depends on their crimes/actions though. -
My aunt shot and killed my uncle (her brother) for trying to save her from an abusive boyfriend (her ? ) I don't care about that ? , I will never forgive her. She did six years, that ? look like a gremlin now, she turned into a demon, I know she can't sleep at night. True Story
Gotdamn. I can't even say I blame you. That's some difficult ? to deal with.JonnyRoccIT wrote: »Nope.....Can't take away the Hurt & Effect from the person's actions.
There's NO WAY you can redeem taking a life or the psychological effects of being molested .
People have done a good job of the former already. There are all sorts of excuses for killing people that are acceptable.
As far as being a victim of molestation, I honestly can't think of something worse that can happen to a kid. I have seen people forgive their molesters though. It's been done.mryounggun wrote: »that's a ? example of redemption. But yes, it's possible.
Okay, thanks for that but how about someone like Tookie Williams? He reportedly wanted to make amends for helping to create and popularize being a gangbanger. People believed he was doing it to spare himself from execution...and that may have been true but we will never know now.
Tookie Williams was executed by the Terminator (Arnold Schwarzenegger) I remember he gave the final word when he was the Governor of California. I don't care for Tookie though, he is one of the founding members of the crips. Who Terrorised the black community for years. They represent Genocide of their own people, They made the Ku Klux ? proud.
Yeah I don't ? with Tookie either but there seemed to be a lot of people who bought into what he was saying. I remember somewhat of an uproar when he was executed, didnt really upset me and I'm anti-death penalty.
I shed not one tear, I was laughing at the muthafuckas that was though. I'm like "what you sad for, they gave him a movie, Jamie Fox starring in it, lol"http://youtu.be/xxbBhTq8nNQ
Right. I thought homie was dead already when I heard about them tryna ? him. I still can't believe they made a movie about dude either.
Hollywood glorifies gangsters, they make it seem cool. That's why all these kids join gangs, then they join the rest of the dumb ? in prison or the graveyard.
