Biggie & Nas Are Both Better Than Tupac
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Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »Giving lyricist too much props now? Yo seriously when the hell did it become bad to be a great lyricist? in the past 10 years hip hop has taken the weirdest turn ever
being a great lyricist ain't ? if you ain't a good rapper or aren't saying anything with those lyrics
but when ppl use he's a "lyricist" as an arguement that someones a good rapper is so tired at this point, because to many ppl putting together complex lines that aren't speaking about anything....thats why the old cats get ? on, some of them just piecing words together...who gives a ? , thats not impressive
it's music after all, it needs to sound good and come from your personal expression, not just putting words together
Being a good lyricist IS being a good rapper, ? trying to change ? around so these wack ass rappers now can have a chance. Not every lyricist sounds like canibus and not every lyricist has the same subject matter as canibus either where they are just saying battle raps the whole time. yall ? need to get yall ? together on here if yall hip hop fans
And BTW to me, Pac is in fact a lyricist
mf doom is lyrical and he's a terrible rapper, his songs suck, his flow is garbage and his topics are boring....it takes a lot more than just lyrics to make a good rapper....same reason why many like canibus but not many will say he's one of the best rappers
and like you just said pac is a lyricist, i could care less if he's a lyrcisist or not, he flows nice, his music is enjoyable and says something....i also don't listen to joe budden because i think he's "lyrical", i listen because his music is enjoyable and personal
of course you care that pac and joey are lyricist. what the hell are you listening to them for then? their lyrics right? what makes their music enjoyable? mostly their lyrics, right? thats cause they are lyrical. never heard someone say they enjoy both pac and joey for their beats or some ? . Like I said before lyricist dont mean spitting canibus battle raps
ok so your calling them lyricist because of what they are saying as well...rather than how they are putting words together how most ppl define "lyricist"...i agree with you on that point but most ppl will throw a fit if you tell them that -
I thought you were locked up?supergangster wrote: »I would not go that far and say that Biggie is better than Pac when I know his son is ?
I still remember the Biggie son thread
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T. Sanford wrote: »They are better lyricists but they are not a better artist than Pac
Being a great artist>>>being a great lyricist
Yall stay using this artist ? as a crutch and yall can never explain what makes that rapper the better artist. -
T. Sanford wrote: »They are better lyricists but they are not a better artist than Pac
Being a great artist>>>being a great lyricist
My feelings exactly. Great lyrical ability is always impressive but if we're going by just pure lyrical gymnastics, then Lupe and Chino XL would be known as the greatest rappers of all time. Chino XL and Lupe can do lyrical back flips and somersaults over almost anyone.
Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me, and that's why I'm taking 2pac over anyone. -
Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »Giving lyricist too much props now? Yo seriously when the hell did it become bad to be a great lyricist? in the past 10 years hip hop has taken the weirdest turn ever
being a great lyricist ain't ? if you ain't a good rapper or aren't saying anything with those lyrics
but when ppl use he's a "lyricist" as an arguement that someones a good rapper is so tired at this point, because to many ppl putting together complex lines that aren't speaking about anything....thats why the old cats get ? on, some of them just piecing words together...who gives a ? , thats not impressive
it's music after all, it needs to sound good and come from your personal expression, not just putting words together
Being a good lyricist IS being a good rapper, ? trying to change ? around so these wack ass rappers now can have a chance. Not every lyricist sounds like canibus and not every lyricist has the same subject matter as canibus either where they are just saying battle raps the whole time. yall ? need to get yall ? together on here if yall hip hop fans
And BTW to me, Pac is in fact a lyricist
mf doom is lyrical and he's a terrible rapper, his songs suck, his flow is garbage and his topics are boring....it takes a lot more than just lyrics to make a good rapper....same reason why many like canibus but not many will say he's one of the best rappers
and like you just said pac is a lyricist, i could care less if he's a lyrcisist or not, he flows nice, his music is enjoyable and says something....i also don't listen to joe budden because i think he's "lyrical", i listen because his music is enjoyable and personal
of course you care that pac and joey are lyricist. what the hell are you listening to them for then? their lyrics right? what makes their music enjoyable? mostly their lyrics, right? thats cause they are lyrical. never heard someone say they enjoy both pac and joey for their beats or some ? . Like I said before lyricist dont mean spitting canibus battle raps
ok so your calling them lyricist because of what they are saying as well...rather than how they are putting words together how most ppl define "lyricist"...i agree with you on that point but most ppl will throw a fit if you tell them that
I think this is accurate. Most people would define a lyricist as such.
I think RZA is one of the most insightful MC's ever. However, he is no lyricists. While what he says has tons of meaning the way he puts his rhymes together and delivers them is an acquired taste. On the other hand, GZA is a supreme lyricists the way puts words together coupled with substance makes him worthy of that title.
Pac wasn't a Lyricist. Why this is hard to accept is, beyond me. It's doesn't take away from Pacs legacy. If we put Pac in his proper lane his contemporaries are;
Chuck D
Melle Mel
Paris
Brother J
Ice Cube
MC's that had more political and Social leanings in their music. While these MC's were very deep they weren't Lyrical. Their styles are\very basic in there structure and delivery.
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5th Letter wrote: »T. Sanford wrote: »They are better lyricists but they are not a better artist than Pac
Being a great artist>>>being a great lyricist
Yall stay using this artist ? as a crutch and yall can never explain what makes that rapper the better artist.
Yo, when most of these cats just write and perform lyrics, I wonder the same thing....lol... -
kingblaze84 wrote: »T. Sanford wrote: »They are better lyricists but they are not a better artist than Pac
Being a great artist>>>being a great lyricist
My feelings exactly. Great lyrical ability is always impressive but if we're going by just pure lyrical gymnastics, then Lupe and Chino XL would be known as the greatest rappers of all time. Chino XL and Lupe can do lyrical back flips and somersaults over almost anyone.
Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me, and that's why I'm taking 2pac over anyone.
@ the bolded. That's what Biggie was good at; lyrical gymnastics. His cadence and flow was the absolute best in his era. Nobody could rap like Biggie from 94-97. Listen to his flow on You Can't Stop the Reign, One More Chance (remix), Big Poppa, Ten ? Commandments, I Got A Story To Tell. <<<--- Those songs are the epitome of "lyrical gymnastics".
Plain and simply, Tupac could never see Biggie's flow on You Can't Stop the Reign.
Also Real ? Do Real Things, that's Big's storytelling at his finest.
You said, "Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me"
As if Big didn't make great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations. Not only did he make great, versatile songs that speak to generations but his flow was better than Pac's. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »T. Sanford wrote: »They are better lyricists but they are not a better artist than Pac
Being a great artist>>>being a great lyricist
My feelings exactly. Great lyrical ability is always impressive but if we're going by just pure lyrical gymnastics, then Lupe and Chino XL would be known as the greatest rappers of all time. Chino XL and Lupe can do lyrical back flips and somersaults over almost anyone.
Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me, and that's why I'm taking 2pac over anyone.
I'm not sure who said, that being a lyricists is the end all be all. Or is the defining factor for what ultimately makes a great MC. I think there many things that make a great MC.
Red Man is one of the best MC's of all time but for different reasons. As, say Pac or Big.
Chuck D is one of the best MC's of all time but for different reasons as say Chino XL or Canibus
Rass Kass is one of the best MC's of all but for different reasons then say Busta Rhymes or Cee-Lo
And on and on.
But in my personal opinion and bringing this back to the OP. I believe Nas is the Illest he embodies the spirit and ability of every MC I have ever heard hands down from Spoonie G, to Chance the rapper. I believe this assessment is a fair one given the fact that Big and Pac were taken early. We have no idea what they would have become.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »T. Sanford wrote: »They are better lyricists but they are not a better artist than Pac
Being a great artist>>>being a great lyricist
My feelings exactly. Great lyrical ability is always impressive but if we're going by just pure lyrical gymnastics, then Lupe and Chino XL would be known as the greatest rappers of all time. Chino XL and Lupe can do lyrical back flips and somersaults over almost anyone.
Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me, and that's why I'm taking 2pac over anyone.
@ the bolded. That's what Biggie was good at; lyrical gymnastics. His cadence and flow was the absolute best in his era. Nobody could rap like Biggie from 94-97. Listen to his flow on You Can't Stop the Reign, One More Chance (remix), Big Poppa, Ten ? Commandments, I Got A Story To Tell. <<<--- Those songs are the epitome of "lyrical gymnastics".
Plain and simply, Tupac could never see Biggie's flow on You Can't Stop the Reign.
Also Real ? Do Real Things, that's Big's storytelling at his finest.
You said, "Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me"
As if Big didn't make great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations. Not only did he make great, versatile songs that speak to generations but his flow was better than Pac's.
While I agree with you on Pacs lyrical ability vs. Biggie. You are overrating Biggie to a degree that's stannish. There were to many unbelievable lyricists during that time span for you to be wilding like that.
O yeah, and instead of being lazy with nosigns, state your disagreements. Acting like you don't like typing and ? .
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what this boils down to is that pac fans are so fervent in their idolisation of the man that they will do anything to discredit the guy who was his 'closest rival'.... and its 20 year later. I realise this works both ways at times but these ? pac fans just seem to lose their mind completely. Apparently some well thought out posts in here constitute 'feelings.' Apparently the one time king of ny has easily 20 better rappers and maybe more than him. apparently biggie has never made a thoughtful song and is just throwing words together.
are some of you people trolling, or are these sort of asinine comments the level of your argument? actually thats mainly at @ThaNubianGod.
all this ? smacks of insecurity..and ive often wondered why that is the case with pac. Y, know i wasnt gonna post this next video, but ive seen the usual biggie was ? topics around here, usual stuff, its mainly just jokes. But seeing as that is the case.....but can you explain the actions of the man in this video to me, because i swear this kid is way beyond fruity...way way beyond. I only saw this video recently and considering this is the guy who was screaming thug life not long after, is this insecurity stemming from the fact that pac is potentially a total fraud..and possibly even ? ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3OuC7-MHD4
as for the actual discussion relating to what makes someone lyrical, it will obviously go on for ever but even so i always enjoy reading peoples opinions. Couple of things i possibly agree with...pacs music and just the general aura and attitude he carried may be more timeless than bigs....potentially. What i mean by this is that in say a 100 years time or whatever pac may still be a huge worldwide cultural icon wheras BIG with his shorter run and lack of albums is less so, ands so potentially less listened to.
in saying that, pac put out a lot of music and a some of it was limited..the whole hennesy enemies ? was a crutch, and some of his music was terrible. a level of terrible biggie never approached.
you also dont have to be in your face with socio political themes for your music to considered a unique parameter of social commentary. Someone like big may have been portraying the Frank White character but theres subtleties to this ? . was the reason he was depicting a lavish lifestyle etc simply because it was tailoring to the whole hip hop ethic of machismo or whatever, or that he wanted to depict the level he believed he could reach through his art..or was it influenced by not only the drugs, ? and poverty he saw not around him but throughout the world...there was a global recession in the 80s for example. Just one example and something im not even saying im right about, but theres obviously levels here.
anyway. tl:dr, big was a great artist, pac made a video where he acted like a ? , and where tf has nas gone in this conversation lol
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kingblaze84 wrote: »T. Sanford wrote: »They are better lyricists but they are not a better artist than Pac
Being a great artist>>>being a great lyricist
My feelings exactly. Great lyrical ability is always impressive but if we're going by just pure lyrical gymnastics, then Lupe and Chino XL would be known as the greatest rappers of all time. Chino XL and Lupe can do lyrical back flips and somersaults over almost anyone.
Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me, and that's why I'm taking 2pac over anyone.
@ the bolded. That's what Biggie was good at; lyrical gymnastics. His cadence and flow was the absolute best in his era. Nobody could rap like Biggie from 94-97. Listen to his flow on You Can't Stop the Reign, One More Chance (remix), Big Poppa, Ten ? Commandments, I Got A Story To Tell. <<<--- Those songs are the epitome of "lyrical gymnastics".
Plain and simply, Tupac could never see Biggie's flow on You Can't Stop the Reign.
Also Real ? Do Real Things, that's Big's storytelling at his finest.
You said, "Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me"
As if Big didn't make great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations. Not only did he make great, versatile songs that speak to generations but his flow was better than Pac's.
Biggie's flow and lyrical gymnastics on all those songs you mentioned are great, and believe it or not, for some time I even had Biggie over 2pac. But then I listened to the message of most of Biggie's songs and I realized: what is he even talking about most of the time? The same ? : money, cars, clothes, hoes. And that's cool, but life is so much deeper and bigger then that. Biggie usually struggled when it came to rapping about outside topics, but 2pac never had that same struggle.
2pac could turn political and social songs (Brenda's Got A Baby, Trapped, etc) into songs that could move a whole generation, Biggie on the other hand rapped mainly about things that any random 20 or 30 rappers could rap nice about. Yeah Biggie moved people and still does, but not in the same powerful way. 2pac has songs that can make you think about life in a much deeper and poignant way compared to Biggie.
Biggie has Sky's The Limit and Suicidal Thoughts and a bunch of other songs in which he's talking about selling ? and smashing hoes.....2pac has Changes, Brenda's Got A Baby, White Man's World, Life Goes On, Dear Mama, Trapped, and Keep Ya Head Up. 2pac was the much deeper rapper and therefore better in my eyes.
It's kind of like why people worldwide take Michael Jackson over most other singers, who probably sang even better then him.....why?? Because he had deeper songs that reached a higher level of consciousness. And Nas and Biggie couldn't do that TO THE EXTENT that 2pac did.
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what this boils down to is that pac fans are so fervent in their idolisation of the man that they will do anything to discredit the guy who was his 'closest rival'.... and its 20 year later. I realise this works both ways at times but these ? pac fans just seem to lose their mind completely. Apparently some well thought out posts in here constitute 'feelings.' Apparently the one time king of ny has easily 20 better rappers and maybe more than him. apparently biggie has never made a thoughtful song and is just throwing words together.
are some of you people trolling, or are these sort of asinine comments the level of your argument? actually thats mainly at @ThaNubianGod.
all this ? smacks of insecurity..and ive often wondered why that is the case with pac. Y, know i wasnt gonna post this next video, but ive seen the usual biggie was ? topics around here, usual stuff, its mainly just jokes. But seeing as that is the case.....but can you explain the actions of the man in this video to me, because i swear this kid is way beyond fruity...way way beyond. I only saw this video recently and considering this is the guy who was screaming thug life not long after, is this insecurity stemming from the fact that pac is potentially a total fraud..and possibly even ? ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3OuC7-MHD4
as for the actual discussion relating to what makes someone lyrical, it will obviously go on for ever but even so i always enjoy reading peoples opinions. Couple of things i possibly agree with...pacs music and just the general aura and attitude he carried may be more timeless than bigs....potentially. What i mean by this is that in say a 100 years time or whatever pac may still be a huge worldwide cultural icon wheras BIG with his shorter run and lack of albums is less so, ands so potentially less listened to.
in saying that, pac put out a lot of music and a some of it was limited..the whole hennesy enemies ? was a crutch, and some of his music was terrible. a level of terrible biggie never approached.
you also dont have to be in your face with socio political themes for your music to considered a unique parameter of social commentary. Someone like big may have been portraying the Frank White character but theres subtleties to this ? . was the reason he was depicting a lavish lifestyle etc simply because it was tailoring to the whole hip hop ethic of machismo or whatever, or that he wanted to depict the level he believed he could reach through his art..or was it influenced by not only the drugs, ? and poverty he saw not around him but throughout the world...there was a global recession in the 80s for example. Just one example and something im not even saying im right about, but theres obviously levels here.
anyway. tl:dr, big was a great artist, pac made a video where he acted like a ? , and where tf has nas gone in this conversation lol
I am not a Pac fan but you don't have attempt to discredit his person. I mean if, you are going to, at least be fair and mention big's catholic school working class upbringing. That ten turned into a poverty stricken ? dealer just trying to provide for his daughter.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »T. Sanford wrote: »They are better lyricists but they are not a better artist than Pac
Being a great artist>>>being a great lyricist
My feelings exactly. Great lyrical ability is always impressive but if we're going by just pure lyrical gymnastics, then Lupe and Chino XL would be known as the greatest rappers of all time. Chino XL and Lupe can do lyrical back flips and somersaults over almost anyone.
Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me, and that's why I'm taking 2pac over anyone.
I'm not sure who said, that being a lyricists is the end all be all. Or is the defining factor for what ultimately makes a great MC. I think there many things that make a great MC.
Red Man is one of the best MC's of all time but for different reasons. As, say Pac or Big.
Chuck D is one of the best MC's of all time but for different reasons as say Chino XL or Canibus
Rass Kass is one of the best MC's of all but for different reasons then say Busta Rhymes or Cee-Lo
And on and on.
But in my personal opinion and bringing this back to the OP. I believe Nas is the Illest he embodies the spirit and ability of every MC I have ever heard hands down from Spoonie G, to Chance the rapper. I believe this assessment is a fair one given the fact that Big and Pac were taken early. We have no idea what they would have become.
Fair enough, Nas has a stronger case for being a better rapper since he's also deep and versatile in subject matter, although many think Biggie had more potential but like you said, he was taken early. I fully agree being a master lyricist is good but it's not the end all and be all of being a great rapper. It's just one part of the characteristics of being a good or great rapper.
There are other characteristics, like charisma, flow, message, and probably some others I'm missing right now. -
what this boils down to is that pac fans are so fervent in their idolisation of the man that they will do anything to discredit the guy who was his 'closest rival'.... and its 20 year later. I realise this works both ways at times but these ? pac fans just seem to lose their mind completely. Apparently some well thought out posts in here constitute 'feelings.' Apparently the one time king of ny has easily 20 better rappers and maybe more than him. apparently biggie has never made a thoughtful song and is just throwing words together.
are some of you people trolling, or are these sort of asinine comments the level of your argument? actually thats mainly at @ThaNubianGod.
all this ? smacks of insecurity..and ive often wondered why that is the case with pac. Y, know i wasnt gonna post this next video, but ive seen the usual biggie was ? topics around here, usual stuff, its mainly just jokes. But seeing as that is the case.....but can you explain the actions of the man in this video to me, because i swear this kid is way beyond fruity...way way beyond. I only saw this video recently and considering this is the guy who was screaming thug life not long after, is this insecurity stemming from the fact that pac is potentially a total fraud..and possibly even ? ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3OuC7-MHD4
as for the actual discussion relating to what makes someone lyrical, it will obviously go on for ever but even so i always enjoy reading peoples opinions. Couple of things i possibly agree with...pacs music and just the general aura and attitude he carried may be more timeless than bigs....potentially. What i mean by this is that in say a 100 years time or whatever pac may still be a huge worldwide cultural icon wheras BIG with his shorter run and lack of albums is less so, ands so potentially less listened to.
in saying that, pac put out a lot of music and a some of it was limited..the whole hennesy enemies ? was a crutch, and some of his music was terrible. a level of terrible biggie never approached.
you also dont have to be in your face with socio political themes for your music to considered a unique parameter of social commentary. Someone like big may have been portraying the Frank White character but theres subtleties to this ? . was the reason he was depicting a lavish lifestyle etc simply because it was tailoring to the whole hip hop ethic of machismo or whatever, or that he wanted to depict the level he believed he could reach through his art..or was it influenced by not only the drugs, ? and poverty he saw not around him but throughout the world...there was a global recession in the 80s for example. Just one example and something im not even saying im right about, but theres obviously levels here.
anyway. tl:dr, big was a great artist, pac made a video where he acted like a ? , and where tf has nas gone in this conversation lol
I am not a Pac fan but you don't have attempt to discredit his person. I mean if, you are going to, at least be fair and mention big's catholic school working class upbringing. That ten turned into a poverty stricken ? dealer just trying to provide for his daughter.
Im not trying to discredit pac, i actually threw some great (if short) praise his way..in fact that once sentence potentially praises pac far more than i did big. If youre talking about the video, i post it because the actions of the guy are so contrasting to the 2pac i grew up listening to, wheras i always believed biggies upbringing was common knowledge.
theres rhyme and reason to everything i posted.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »T. Sanford wrote: »They are better lyricists but they are not a better artist than Pac
Being a great artist>>>being a great lyricist
My feelings exactly. Great lyrical ability is always impressive but if we're going by just pure lyrical gymnastics, then Lupe and Chino XL would be known as the greatest rappers of all time. Chino XL and Lupe can do lyrical back flips and somersaults over almost anyone.
Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me, and that's why I'm taking 2pac over anyone.
@ the bolded. That's what Biggie was good at; lyrical gymnastics. His cadence and flow was the absolute best in his era. Nobody could rap like Biggie from 94-97. Listen to his flow on You Can't Stop the Reign, One More Chance (remix), Big Poppa, Ten ? Commandments, I Got A Story To Tell. <<<--- Those songs are the epitome of "lyrical gymnastics".
Plain and simply, Tupac could never see Biggie's flow on You Can't Stop the Reign.
Also Real ? Do Real Things, that's Big's storytelling at his finest.
You said, "Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me"
As if Big didn't make great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations. Not only did he make great, versatile songs that speak to generations but his flow was better than Pac's.
Biggie's flow and lyrical gymnastics on all those songs you mentioned are great, and believe it or not, for some time I even had Biggie over 2pac. But then I listened to the message of most of Biggie's songs and I realized: what is he even talking about most of the time? The same ? : money, cars, clothes, hoes. And that's cool, but life is so much deeper and bigger then that. Biggie usually struggled when it came to rapping about outside topics, but 2pac never had that same struggle.
2pac could turn political and social songs (Brenda's Got A Baby, Trapped, etc) into songs that could move a whole generation, Biggie on the other hand rapped mainly about things that any random 20 or 30 rappers could rap nice about. Yeah Biggie moved people and still does, but not in the same powerful way. 2pac has songs that can make you think about life in a much deeper and poignant way compared to Biggie.
Biggie has Sky's The Limit and Suicidal Thoughts and a bunch of other songs in which he's talking about selling ? and smashing hoes.....2pac has Changes, Brenda's Got A Baby, White Man's World, Life Goes On, Dear Mama, Trapped, and Keep Ya Head Up. 2pac was the much deeper rapper and therefore better in my eyes.
It's kind of like why people worldwide take Michael Jackson over most other singers, who probably sang even better then him.....why?? Because he had deeper songs that reached a higher level of consciousness. And Nas and Biggie couldn't do that TO THE EXTENT that 2pac did.
In your opinion. Correct? You are making that statement as an absolute.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »T. Sanford wrote: »They are better lyricists but they are not a better artist than Pac
Being a great artist>>>being a great lyricist
My feelings exactly. Great lyrical ability is always impressive but if we're going by just pure lyrical gymnastics, then Lupe and Chino XL would be known as the greatest rappers of all time. Chino XL and Lupe can do lyrical back flips and somersaults over almost anyone.
Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me, and that's why I'm taking 2pac over anyone.
I'm not sure who said, that being a lyricists is the end all be all. Or is the defining factor for what ultimately makes a great MC. I think there many things that make a great MC.
Red Man is one of the best MC's of all time but for different reasons. As, say Pac or Big.
Chuck D is one of the best MC's of all time but for different reasons as say Chino XL or Canibus
Rass Kass is one of the best MC's of all but for different reasons then say Busta Rhymes or Cee-Lo
And on and on.
But in my personal opinion and bringing this back to the OP. I believe Nas is the Illest he embodies the spirit and ability of every MC I have ever heard hands down from Spoonie G, to Chance the rapper. I believe this assessment is a fair one given the fact that Big and Pac were taken early. We have no idea what they would have become.
Fair enough, Nas has a stronger case for being a better rapper since he's also deep and versatile in subject matter, although many think Biggie had more potential but like you said, he was taken early. I fully agree being a master lyricist is good but it's not the end all and be all of being a great rapper. It's just one part of the characteristics of being a good or great rapper.
There are other characteristics, like charisma, flow, message, and probably some others I'm missing right now.
Indeed. I think the art of MC'ing has been replaced by record sales, branding and swag. Which, doesn't leave much room for us to value each individual MC for their unique gifts.
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what this boils down to is that pac fans are so fervent in their idolisation of the man that they will do anything to discredit the guy who was his 'closest rival'.... and its 20 year later. I realise this works both ways at times but these ? pac fans just seem to lose their mind completely. Apparently some well thought out posts in here constitute 'feelings.' Apparently the one time king of ny has easily 20 better rappers and maybe more than him. apparently biggie has never made a thoughtful song and is just throwing words together.
are some of you people trolling, or are these sort of asinine comments the level of your argument? actually thats mainly at @ThaNubianGod.
all this ? smacks of insecurity..and ive often wondered why that is the case with pac. Y, know i wasnt gonna post this next video, but ive seen the usual biggie was ? topics around here, usual stuff, its mainly just jokes. But seeing as that is the case.....but can you explain the actions of the man in this video to me, because i swear this kid is way beyond fruity...way way beyond. I only saw this video recently and considering this is the guy who was screaming thug life not long after, is this insecurity stemming from the fact that pac is potentially a total fraud..and possibly even ? ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3OuC7-MHD4
as for the actual discussion relating to what makes someone lyrical, it will obviously go on for ever but even so i always enjoy reading peoples opinions. Couple of things i possibly agree with...pacs music and just the general aura and attitude he carried may be more timeless than bigs....potentially. What i mean by this is that in say a 100 years time or whatever pac may still be a huge worldwide cultural icon wheras BIG with his shorter run and lack of albums is less so, ands so potentially less listened to.
in saying that, pac put out a lot of music and a some of it was limited..the whole hennesy enemies ? was a crutch, and some of his music was terrible. a level of terrible biggie never approached.
you also dont have to be in your face with socio political themes for your music to considered a unique parameter of social commentary. Someone like big may have been portraying the Frank White character but theres subtleties to this ? . was the reason he was depicting a lavish lifestyle etc simply because it was tailoring to the whole hip hop ethic of machismo or whatever, or that he wanted to depict the level he believed he could reach through his art..or was it influenced by not only the drugs, ? and poverty he saw not around him but throughout the world...there was a global recession in the 80s for example. Just one example and something im not even saying im right about, but theres obviously levels here.
anyway. tl:dr, big was a great artist, pac made a video where he acted like a ? , and where tf has nas gone in this conversation lol
I am not a Pac fan but you don't have attempt to discredit his person. I mean if, you are going to, at least be fair and mention big's catholic school working class upbringing. That ten turned into a poverty stricken ? dealer just trying to provide for his daughter.
Im not trying to discredit pac, i actually threw some great (if short) praise his way..in fact that once sentence potentially praises pac far more than i did big. If youre talking about the video, i post it because the actions of the guy are so contrasting to the 2pac i grew up listening to, wheras i always believed biggies upbringing was common knowledge.
theres rhyme and reason to everything i posted.
I am not going to draw this out any longer then it should be but no Biggies upbringing wasn't common knowledge nor could you find any trace of it in his music.
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what this boils down to is that pac fans are so fervent in their idolisation of the man that they will do anything to discredit the guy who was his 'closest rival'.... and its 20 year later. I realise this works both ways at times but these ? pac fans just seem to lose their mind completely. Apparently some well thought out posts in here constitute 'feelings.' Apparently the one time king of ny has easily 20 better rappers and maybe more than him. apparently biggie has never made a thoughtful song and is just throwing words together.
are some of you people trolling, or are these sort of asinine comments the level of your argument? actually thats mainly at @ThaNubianGod.
all this ? smacks of insecurity..and ive often wondered why that is the case with pac. Y, know i wasnt gonna post this next video, but ive seen the usual biggie was ? topics around here, usual stuff, its mainly just jokes. But seeing as that is the case.....but can you explain the actions of the man in this video to me, because i swear this kid is way beyond fruity...way way beyond. I only saw this video recently and considering this is the guy who was screaming thug life not long after, is this insecurity stemming from the fact that pac is potentially a total fraud..and possibly even ? ?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3OuC7-MHD4
as for the actual discussion relating to what makes someone lyrical, it will obviously go on for ever but even so i always enjoy reading peoples opinions. Couple of things i possibly agree with...pacs music and just the general aura and attitude he carried may be more timeless than bigs....potentially. What i mean by this is that in say a 100 years time or whatever pac may still be a huge worldwide cultural icon wheras BIG with his shorter run and lack of albums is less so, ands so potentially less listened to.
in saying that, pac put out a lot of music and a some of it was limited..the whole hennesy enemies ? was a crutch, and some of his music was terrible. a level of terrible biggie never approached.
you also dont have to be in your face with socio political themes for your music to considered a unique parameter of social commentary. Someone like big may have been portraying the Frank White character but theres subtleties to this ? . was the reason he was depicting a lavish lifestyle etc simply because it was tailoring to the whole hip hop ethic of machismo or whatever, or that he wanted to depict the level he believed he could reach through his art..or was it influenced by not only the drugs, ? and poverty he saw not around him but throughout the world...there was a global recession in the 80s for example. Just one example and something im not even saying im right about, but theres obviously levels here.
anyway. tl:dr, big was a great artist, pac made a video where he acted like a ? , and where tf has nas gone in this conversation lol
I am not a Pac fan but you don't have attempt to discredit his person. I mean if, you are going to, at least be fair and mention big's catholic school working class upbringing. That ten turned into a poverty stricken ? dealer just trying to provide for his daughter.
Im not trying to discredit pac, i actually threw some great (if short) praise his way..in fact that once sentence potentially praises pac far more than i did big. If youre talking about the video, i post it because the actions of the guy are so contrasting to the 2pac i grew up listening to, wheras i always believed biggies upbringing was common knowledge.
theres rhyme and reason to everything i posted.
I am not going to draw this out any longer then it should be but no Biggies upbringing wasn't common knowledge nor could you find any trace of it in his music.
actually, my bad..when i say was 'always' was common knowledge, it probably wasnt at the time but seemed to come to light soon after. Wheras ive never seen that side of pac and its so contrastingly different. -
years ago I had this thug angel dvd where the whole interview was on. What I got out of it at the time was that it pac merely at the age of 17 was bringing up good points and speaking on real issues like police brutality and homeless people in this country. it wasnt until I got on the internet that some people sadly only got out of it was that he might have been....? smh ? up. -
5th Letter wrote: »T. Sanford wrote: »They are better lyricists but they are not a better artist than Pac
Being a great artist>>>being a great lyricist
Yall stay using this artist ? as a crutch and yall can never explain what makes that rapper the better artist.
Wanna know something that's crazy? I remember it was a thread about Scarface & I said that Face was a lyricist. & people was trying to discredit him because he is not Pun, Canibus, Pharaoh Monch etc. So with the IC Reason logic, artists like Pac & Face wouldn't be coined as lyricists (even tho they are)
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T. Sanford wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »T. Sanford wrote: »They are better lyricists but they are not a better artist than Pac
Being a great artist>>>being a great lyricist
Yall stay using this artist ? as a crutch and yall can never explain what makes that rapper the better artist.
Wanna know something that's crazy? I remember it was a thread about Scarface & I said that Face was a lyricist. & people was trying to discredit him because he is not Pun, Canibus, Pharaoh Monch etc. So with the IC Reason logic, artists like Pac & Face wouldn't be coined as lyricists (even tho they are)
It's a not a discredit . Not being a labeled a lyricists doesn't take away from their ability as MC's.
You have to also look at it in reverse Pun, Canibus, Monch aint Pac or Face either. None of them (maybe monch) is as good at story telling as, Face or Politically leaning and emotional as Pac. Not being a Lyricists isn't the deciding factor as to what artists are elite or great.
I don't care how much of a Lyricist Eminem is, dude trash to me.
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Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »
years ago I had this thug angel dvd where the whole interview was on. What I got out of it at the time was that it pac merely at the age of 17 was bringing up good points and speaking on real issues like police brutality and homeless people in this country. it wasnt until I got on the internet that some people sadly only got out of it was that he might have been....? smh ? up.
bruh, no doubt! honestly, the guy speaks intelligently and is incredibly mature for his age, ive watched most of it and its a great interview (to be fair, i should have mentioned this.) I threw it out there because of the insecurity that seems to stem for some of ? pac stans and this has been something of an eye opener as to why that may be the case. if some people are fickle enough to discredit BIG merely because in their opinion pac was a better, more genuine artist, then where does a video where pac is not only not acting nowhere near his thug life image..but is actually very camp and feminine..fit into this equation?
in no way am i criticising 2pac here, quite the opposite. He is a musical legend.
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If you know pac then you you know what thug life meant to him.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »T. Sanford wrote: »They are better lyricists but they are not a better artist than Pac
Being a great artist>>>being a great lyricist
My feelings exactly. Great lyrical ability is always impressive but if we're going by just pure lyrical gymnastics, then Lupe and Chino XL would be known as the greatest rappers of all time. Chino XL and Lupe can do lyrical back flips and somersaults over almost anyone.
Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me, and that's why I'm taking 2pac over anyone.
@ the bolded. That's what Biggie was good at; lyrical gymnastics. His cadence and flow was the absolute best in his era. Nobody could rap like Biggie from 94-97. Listen to his flow on You Can't Stop the Reign, One More Chance (remix), Big Poppa, Ten ? Commandments, I Got A Story To Tell. <<<--- Those songs are the epitome of "lyrical gymnastics".
Plain and simply, Tupac could never see Biggie's flow on You Can't Stop the Reign.
Also Real ? Do Real Things, that's Big's storytelling at his finest.
You said, "Making great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations is more important to me"
As if Big didn't make great, versatile songs that speak to people and generations. Not only did he make great, versatile songs that speak to generations but his flow was better than Pac's.
Biggie's flow and lyrical gymnastics on all those songs you mentioned are great, and believe it or not, for some time I even had Biggie over 2pac. But then I listened to the message of most of Biggie's songs and I realized: what is he even talking about most of the time? The same ? : money, cars, clothes, hoes. And that's cool, but life is so much deeper and bigger then that. Biggie usually struggled when it came to rapping about outside topics, but 2pac never had that same struggle.
2pac could turn political and social songs (Brenda's Got A Baby, Trapped, etc) into songs that could move a whole generation, Biggie on the other hand rapped mainly about things that any random 20 or 30 rappers could rap nice about. Yeah Biggie moved people and still does, but not in the same powerful way. 2pac has songs that can make you think about life in a much deeper and poignant way compared to Biggie.
Biggie has Sky's The Limit and Suicidal Thoughts and a bunch of other songs in which he's talking about selling ? and smashing hoes.....2pac has Changes, Brenda's Got A Baby, White Man's World, Life Goes On, Dear Mama, Trapped, and Keep Ya Head Up. 2pac was the much deeper rapper and therefore better in my eyes.
It's kind of like why people worldwide take Michael Jackson over most other singers, who probably sang even better then him.....why?? Because he had deeper songs that reached a higher level of consciousness. And Nas and Biggie couldn't do that TO THE EXTENT that 2pac did.
@the bolded; That simply isn't true. You're saying that Big rapped, "mainly about things that any random 20 or 30 rappers could rap nice about.". That's a false claim. Big was the only MC of his era to rap about the things he rapped about, the way he rapped about them. His competition was Raekwon, Nas and Jay Z. They all had that drug kingpin, Mafioso rhyme style but the way Biggie did it was more appealing to the masses. Maybe it was the production that put him over the edge but Big created an alter ego and rapped in the first person of the alter ego; Frank White. 2Pac was a good MC but I don't ever recalling him create an alter ego and rhyme from that perspective. I don't recall 2Pac having any stories as vivid as Big's stories (Brendas Got A Baby notwithstanding).
You can't say that Big rapped about what every other MC rapped about. It simply isn't true.Biggie has Sky's The Limit and Suicidal Thoughts and a bunch of other songs in which he's talking about selling ? and smashing hoes.....2pac has Changes, Brenda's Got A Baby, White Man's World, Life Goes On, Dear Mama, Trapped, and Keep Ya Head Up. 2pac was the much deeper rapper and therefore better in my eyes.
Cmon dude. You sound like you've never heard Life After Death -
^ you don't actually beliee that do you?
big's subject matter was extremely limited
