Jay-Z Almost Ended 2 pac's Career: DJ Clark Kent Reveals Jay-Z Recorded A 2Pac Diss
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manofmorehouse wrote: »So just to be clear, yall really believe pac would have been able to ? jay z on wax....in real life??
Not even that honestly, just the fact that Pac rode that wave of success and fandom at that point so big that a Jay dis wouldn't of been taken seriously in 1996. ? would of sided with Pac just cause.
^^^ this pretty much sums it up ? would of been another meek vs Drake
Jay could of called pac out for taken dance classes and portraying a Thug even thought he went to a very prestigious school
Folks would of still defended pac and clowned Jay
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Lol a lot of Jay Z hate in here.
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AfrikQueen wrote: »AfrikQueen wrote: »Revisionist history like a muthafucka SMMFH. First off Jay-Z was NOT a big artist in 96, he was lower tier at that point. He could have dropped a diss and it would have fallen on deaf ears behind the Chino XL, Lil Kim, Mobb Deep, Ryan G, and other wack ass disses (shoot me Jayhova Witnesses, yall prolly wasn't even old enough to know what was going on at the time Pac was HUGE). Jay couldn't even ? NaS' career on wax so FOH about him killing Pac's career.
Pac was big, but he wasn't that big, their were rap acts like the Fugees who Pac went at who were extremely bigger than Pac was. Pac was bigger in his death than he was alive.
This mentality is what killed hip hop. If by being more well known and accepted by a larger cross audience is what you mean by the fugees being bigger than pac you are right. But to imply that in any way, shape or form that fugees individually or collectively were better than pac ur crazy.
I respect what the fugees bought to game and i know you cant really compare the 2 but with that said you are out of ur mind if you think they were seeing pac.
Thats like comparing kenny g to john Coltrane. Kenny has his lane but its beyond ridiculous to claim that he is better b/c he has a larger cross over following. Chasing pop crossover success is what took us from pac to souljah boy. Fohwtbs
Who said anything about the Fugees being better? I said the Fugees were bigger Hip-Hop stars within a mainstream paradigm at that time, in which they were. What killed Hip-hop is that beef ? (which pac was heavily apart of), commercialization, and its obsession with materialism (? today are still rapping about that same ? they rapped about in 98). And if you want to talk about music, Pac may have released classic songs, but classic all around albums? Never.
In '96 Hip-Hop publications were already saying Hip-Hop was dying due to its new found obsession with materialism that was being projected in the mainstream within the culture, where many at the time felt the Fugees and the Roots was saving the culture (even though classic hip-hop was still being released).
Go search through some of the old Hip-Hop magazines that were released at the time, and get the true opinion of how ? actually was.SheerExcellence wrote: »
I understand what you trying to say, but it does not apply in this situation. Tupac and fugees both made music for the culture and communities they from, not crossover success
Exactly, and thats my point! All I'm trying to say is that even though Pac was big at the time, their were Hip-Hop acts that were even bigger than him such as the Fugees.
Outside of Biggie, who was talking about materalistic ? in 95, 96?
? been were saying hiphop was dead, SINCE THE EARLY 90'S because, the east coast was salty the west had Rap on lock.
The Fugees were not bigger than Pac in 96 ... yea, Fugees were getting spins at z100 n wbls, and that was it...
The fugees was 03 outkast, and Pac was 2003 50 cent...
outkast was doing their thing and getting play in places were 50 wasn't, but they were not bigger than 50 at all.
Pac was big when he dropped juice n poetic justice with JANET JACKSON... that was highly regarded.
Pac was an urban legend, after he shot those white cops n beat the case. if u remember, that was a big deal in this country.
Pac became collosal, when he took those bullets, got locked, n dropped Me Against the World from jail to beat out BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN for the number ONE ALBUM IN THE COUNTRY.
The ? was BLACK Jesus when he came out N DROPPED ALL EYEZ ON ME. Nobody was ? with dude in 96,in terms of impact.
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Example:SheerExcellence wrote: »J.J._Evans wrote: »First off.....I'm a supporter of Jay Z, but let's be clear though.
He rose to fame only after the deaths of 2 Pac and Biggie. If those two were never killed, there's a very high probability that Jay Z would have never became the Jay Z that we know today. He would've been just another artist that attempted to chase his dream.
True
And if ? and japan had developed the atomic bomb first and dropped it on america, we'd be done for and germany would rule the world. And we'd all be bumping some german rock stars and eating bratwurst.
Lots of ifs and coulda and shouldas
Ross had a huge 2010... yea Teflon Don was dope. But the reason Ross had that crazy year was because ;
1.the south was running Rap. N the front runners of the south were idle that year.
2. Jeezy dropped in 09',n took 2010 off.
3. T.i N Wayne were in prison.
All those things left a lane open for Ross.
Jay became a major factor in rap in 98..
In 96, 97 jay was still finding his idenity n was very green.
By 1998, two of the major players of the mid 90's in pac n big were dead. the other guys like Nas , was idle. Snoop was leaving deathrow n headed to a new market. Dre was tryna find talent for aftermath...
For the west coast
Suge was locked, so no new talent for the west, cause deathrow was frozen.
The south was gaining more exposure with the rising of Outkast, No Limit, N Cash Money.
However, The east was still going strong after losing biggie because, Puffy n bad boy held it down in 97... also ushering the shiny suit era.
a wave JayZ Rode , go listen to vol.1... look at the singles..
The thing was, in 98 the streets was tired of that shiny, glitzy , flossy ? , and the mafioso ? jay was on in 96, got stale.
in late 97, the streets of NY was gravitating towards this young dog from Yonkers who was making alotta Noise, his name was DMX ... defjam saw that n took a chance on dude, n when X dropped those singles in early 98 the streets ate it up cause, they were starving for that street ? .
Jay saw that, n reinvent himselff be incorparated alot of the ? edge n sound to his music... n the rest was history. -
Almost doesn't put points on the board
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if u wasn't at least a teenager in 96, shut the ? up. most of y'all started listening to hip hop in the last 5 years...
lol@u fake historians... -
GTFOH Jay-Z took a like a year to respond to Lil Wayne and it was a weak diss.
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Jay-Z is the subliminal diss king. He wouldn't have even mentioned pac name
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No one at that time could of dissed pac and won...pac was to strong, even if it was a good diss at that time it would of flopped, biggie, jayz, mobb deep, nas...were all under the wrath of pac and none of them could of done anything to tarnish what 2pac was doing
pac was shutting down the ppl he didn't like and had he made one nation would of big upp'd the artists on the east that he did like
but jayz has shown, he's not the best at making straight up diss tracks, the only one he really bodied was prodigy and that was an easy target -
lol... Pac was not untouchable... stop it... unknowns have dissed artists at the height of their careers through out hip hop history.
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Man this is a good thread, but as one stated if you wasn't really into hip-hop back then, you wouldn't understand that era..you can't put what's going on now and try and fit into yesterday world..it's not even close and I'm not even talking about you just doing away with social media and trying to understand the era..it's a totally different world literally on how it was then and how impact Jay-z had in the game. Even in 98 when the two died, Master P took off and was bigger than everybody believe it or not... but when California Love came out smh, dude was in his on lane, you can look up that Vibe interview 2pac did (the film version) about how he had dismantled the East Coast, it was in one clip he said Puffy and them were dropping 2 and 3 remixes trying to push Biggies or JR Mafia album to do double platinum and his album had only been out for x amount of weeks and sold x amount Lol. You'd be crazy to think dude wasn't bigger than anybody at that time. I wasn't a teenager but I was into Hip hop heavy and every news article (including the white magazine) PAC was mentioned in them. MTV gave 2pac his on 2 hour interview where Madonna sat front row at the taping Lol...and this was before 96 I wanna say
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAZbfmIF578 -
if you really take the time to logically play the what if game ? will trip you out. ? -z owes his entire career to the downfall of big and pac. big WAS the east coast. the wu held some weight and nas was and still is questionable on multiple fronts but they were the big 3 of the east coast. pac was jerry rice and jigga was miles austin. ? crazy if you actually think about it.Wow, that Pac and jay z picture gives me chills
Looked it up the guy on YouTube has the actual photograph bruh that pic is worth a couple hundred thou and the bigger Jay z (and Beyonce)gets it will b worth millions. Wow
if big doesnt die jay-z stays in his shadow. jigga was the young homie and his og was getting molly whopped so bad that he didnt want to fight no more. pac put big on. this is what ppl conveniently chose to forget. ? -z was biggies understudy but biggie was pac's understudy. that kills the game right there. once you accept the reality of that 1 simple fact there's nothing else to talk about.
t.o. talked alot of ? to alot of ppl in the nfl but he always reffered to jerry rice as mr. rice. jerry rice, steve young and t.o. will all admit to this. t.o. didnt start wilding out until jerry rice left frisco. as great of a player as t.o.became he started out as a late round draft pick from a no name school and no one had ever heard of him. jerry rice laced him up, taught him how to work, what the nfl was all about and what it took to b successful. t.o. soaked up the game and the rest is history. well here is the real. what the goat jerry rice did for an up and coming great unheard of player in t.o. is exactly the same thing that pac did for big. pac was more influential in shaping big's career than puff was and puff and big both know that. ? big look like really going at pac when everybody around him knows what really happened. t.o. called his qb jeff garcia a ? , called mcnabb an uncle tom and a choke artist, ? off ray lewis and the ravens without ever officially being on the team, ended drew bledsoe's career and started tony romo's, made ocho cinco play 2nd fiddle on his own team but at the end of the day he still refereed to jerry rice as mr. rice. big didnt have a choice he had to show that same level of respect to pac b/c he knew that he was probably more responsible for his career than anyone else so what could he really say.
so if you the og but you still working on consignment on a block that someone else is letting you use who is really the og? you might pop that ? to the dudes in your crew who dont know any better but all that ? comes to an abrupt end when the dude who put you on shows up. so big is working a corner that pac let him hold and ? -z who doesnt know any better and is trying to get on thinks big is holding it down but not knowing that he is just the man sitting next to the man. big knew all of this and only took it so far. but pac recognized what was going on and pulled his card viciously. pac went at him khujo style but big didnt have that same ferocity b/c he couldnt. ? -z was on the sideline not knowing what was really going and was about to get his ass mauled over some ? he didnt understand.
jigga was miles austin looking up to t.o. but he didnt realize that jerry rice was the man who made t.o. into everything that miles austion was looking up to. the ? t.o. look like trying to challenge jerry rice in an attempt to impress miles austin? jerry rice would look at his ass and laugh in his ? face and thats kinda what happened to pac, big and ? -z.
jigga's career would never have gotten off the ground if pac and big were still alive but if ? -z would have went at pac in '96 he wouldnt have had a career in the first place. as bad as it was when pac ? faith just imagine what would happen if he smashed beyonce today. ? would sit off an ether bomb from cali, to houston, to nyc that would possible destroy whats left of the carcass that is today's music industry. ? would be ether on an intergalactic scale and pac was the type of dude to pull that ? off just b/c he knew he could.
He talks about herehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAZbfmIF578 -
glad someone pointed this out because some of these dudes were less than 10 years old in 95/96. They wanna be vets so bad.Brother_Five wrote: »if u wasn't at least a teenager in 96, shut the ? up. most of y'all started listening to hip hop in the last 5 years...
lol@u fake historians... -
Jay Z should re record the diss. Don't tell me the same ? who prides himself about not using pens and rapping about details of drug deals from the 80s can't remember any of the lines from this ALLEGED career ender of an opponent like 2 Pac. Jay Z got to be in his own comfort zone to make decent diss records. The war with Pac was too frantic for a reactionary person like Jay Z. Pac would of had 2 more disses recorded and some street ? planned before Jay Z 1st verse was finished on this ghost diss. His attack was probably trash and weak and Kent saved him from embarrassement like how Cam had to keep his wack ass verse dissing Nas off oh boy remix
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No the ? he didn't lol.
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Example:SheerExcellence wrote: »J.J._Evans wrote: »First off.....I'm a supporter of Jay Z, but let's be clear though.
He rose to fame only after the deaths of 2 Pac and Biggie. If those two were never killed, there's a very high probability that Jay Z would have never became the Jay Z that we know today. He would've been just another artist that attempted to chase his dream.
True
And if ? and japan had developed the atomic bomb first and dropped it on america, we'd be done for and germany would rule the world. And we'd all be bumping some german rock stars and eating bratwurst.
Lots of ifs and coulda and shouldas
Ross had a huge 2010... yea Teflon Don was dope. But the reason Ross had that crazy year was because ;
1.the south was running Rap. N the front runners of the south were idle that year.
2. Jeezy dropped in 09',n took 2010 off.
3. T.i N Wayne were in prison.
All those things left a lane open for Ross.
Jay became a major factor in rap in 98..
In 96, 97 jay was still finding his idenity n was very green.
By 1998, two of the major players of the mid 90's in pac n big were dead. the other guys like Nas , was idle. Snoop was leaving deathrow n headed to a new market. Dre was tryna find talent for aftermath...
For the west coast
Suge was locked, so no new talent for the west, cause deathrow was frozen.
The south was gaining more exposure with the rising of Outkast, No Limit, N Cash Money.
However, The east was still going strong after losing biggie because, Puffy n bad boy held it down in 97... also ushering the shiny suit era.
a wave JayZ Rode , go listen to vol.1... look at the singles..
The thing was, in 98 the streets was tired of that shiny, glitzy , flossy ? , and the mafioso ? jay was on in 96, got stale.
in late 97, the streets of NY was gravitating towards this young dog from Yonkers who was making alotta Noise, his name was DMX ... defjam saw that n took a chance on dude, n when X dropped those singles in early 98 the streets ate it up cause, they were starving for that street ? .
Jay saw that, n reinvent himselff be incorparated alot of the ? edge n sound to his music... n the rest was history.
Tl;dr
Cliffnotes: jay changed to the world around him as circumstances changed, just like every successful entity, person, corporation does.
Just like pac himself did. -
However, I do not think Jay Z (1996) could have 'ended' Pacs career. He could've dropped a classic diss, but thats about it.
diss tracks by themselves do not end careers per se... -
No one at that time could of dissed pac and won...pac was to strong, even if it was a good diss at that time it would of flopped, biggie, jayz, mobb deep, nas...were all under the wrath of pac and none of them could of done anything to tarnish what 2pac was doing
pac was shutting down the ppl he didn't like and had he made one nation would of big upp'd the artists on the east that he did like
but jayz has shown, he's not the best at making straight up diss tracks, the only one he really bodied was prodigy and that was an easy target
Pac was a superhero now?
He was the man and he did his thing no doubt. As far as individual rapper, he was the biggest when aeom came out...but this idea that he was running around having all the other rappers and groups scared and shook because he would shut them down and destroy them is absurd.
Pac was the man, and one of my goats, and an entertaining personality...but he wasn't superman out this ? . -
It a like ? hate to read anything more than headlines.
Flagging the thread starter and ? this thread -
Im sure Ive heard a 2pac diss by Jay on Youtube...
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Yep, ? in they feelings about a hypothetical thread. Quick to slap reactions but slow to make any sense.
50 Cent dissed Pun, Jay, and Nas. Heavyweights in the game. What happened? Nothing and 50 was nowhere as nice as them.
Jay couldn't touch Pac back then; but he was also too talented to say Pac would have ended his career. Just because Jay is a ? ? with shady business practises now doesn't mean he wasn't an elite lyricist back then. Y'all can't be objective about his rap skills cause you don't like him as a person. Dead rappers are made into gods in reason.
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Example:SheerExcellence wrote: »J.J._Evans wrote: »First off.....I'm a supporter of Jay Z, but let's be clear though.
He rose to fame only after the deaths of 2 Pac and Biggie. If those two were never killed, there's a very high probability that Jay Z would have never became the Jay Z that we know today. He would've been just another artist that attempted to chase his dream.
True
And if ? and japan had developed the atomic bomb first and dropped it on america, we'd be done for and germany would rule the world. And we'd all be bumping some german rock stars and eating bratwurst.
Lots of ifs and coulda and shouldas
Ross had a huge 2010... yea Teflon Don was dope. But the reason Ross had that crazy year was because ;
1.the south was running Rap. N the front runners of the south were idle that year.
2. Jeezy dropped in 09',n took 2010 off.
3. T.i N Wayne were in prison.
All those things left a lane open for Ross.
Jay became a major factor in rap in 98..
In 96, 97 jay was still finding his idenity n was very green.
By 1998, two of the major players of the mid 90's in pac n big were dead. the other guys like Nas , was idle. Snoop was leaving deathrow n headed to a new market. Dre was tryna find talent for aftermath...
For the west coast
Suge was locked, so no new talent for the west, cause deathrow was frozen.
The south was gaining more exposure with the rising of Outkast, No Limit, N Cash Money.
However, The east was still going strong after losing biggie because, Puffy n bad boy held it down in 97... also ushering the shiny suit era.
a wave JayZ Rode , go listen to vol.1... look at the singles..
The thing was, in 98 the streets was tired of that shiny, glitzy , flossy ? , and the mafioso ? jay was on in 96, got stale.
in late 97, the streets of NY was gravitating towards this young dog from Yonkers who was making alotta Noise, his name was DMX ... defjam saw that n took a chance on dude, n when X dropped those singles in early 98 the streets ate it up cause, they were starving for that street ? .
Jay saw that, n reinvent himselff be incorparated alot of the ? edge n sound to his music... n the rest was history.
Good post. Your last paragraph is extremely important because one of the reasons a lot of fans gravitated towards DMX was because he was basically a reincarnation of Pac.
DMX had his own unique style, but most Pac fans gravitated towards him when he came in the game. -
SheerExcellence wrote: »No one at that time could of dissed pac and won...pac was to strong, even if it was a good diss at that time it would of flopped, biggie, jayz, mobb deep, nas...were all under the wrath of pac and none of them could of done anything to tarnish what 2pac was doing
pac was shutting down the ppl he didn't like and had he made one nation would of big upp'd the artists on the east that he did like
but jayz has shown, he's not the best at making straight up diss tracks, the only one he really bodied was prodigy and that was an easy target
Pac was a superhero now?
He was the man and he did his thing no doubt. As far as individual rapper, he was the biggest when aeom came out...but this idea that he was running around having all the other rappers and groups scared and shook because he would shut them down and destroy them is absurd.
Pac was the man, and one of my goats, and an entertaining personality...but he wasn't superman out this ? .
well I don't believe I called him a super hero...but if you remember growing up during that time you remember pac having so much influence and ppl riding for him so hard that even if those rappers weren't shook of him, they couldn't make moves that would of made a difference
if the diss was dropped, in 2015 ppl might look back at it as a good diss but at the time it wouldn't have made a scratch in things, ppl would of dismissed it -
soul rattler wrote: »So nobody is going to point out the two big ass elephants in the room?
1. The words "ended Tupac's career" are nowhere in the quote
2. The track can be easily found online and has been for at least 8 years now.
This -
Lyrically, many many rappers could have killed Pac including Jay.
#FactsOnly
