HENCHMAN SPEAKS "Unjust Justice: The Jimmy Rosemond Tapes"
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international wrote: »All this recent posts and accounts of what happened, just basically help me understand why Pac was like ? NY, clearly, the whole damn indsutry and different representatives of NY record labels, insiders and rappers tried to ? on Pac in the Vibe magazine, and mock him...
All this does is help me understand where Pac was coming from and why he was on some ? NY ? , move to Cali then came back and ? on all them snake ass ? ...yep makes all the sense now
Yeah man pac was rolling with some real snakes ? -
Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »Lol@ "they were wrong to rob him". They were street ? ls that's what they do. Da ? you gonna jump into the ocean and get mad that a shark bit you? Lol like I said before pac had no business dealing with them and even worse taking gifts and ? from them either. So yes, his stupidity gets blame also
Bizarre comment. This the type thing I was speakin on. Sayin it aint wrong to rob and shoot a rapper dude. Kinda hard to even...once someone takes that fundamental stance what can you say? -
See, I never even said they weren't wrong. I said they were street ? , what exactly do you expect? And what exactly did pac expect also. This exactly what I meant when I said you can't be rational with these ? man
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It is wrong to rob anyone, period. I think the reactions would've been different if it was a rapper like Talib Kweli getting done the same way Pac got done. Rappers like Kweli stay in their lane and don't try to be a part of something they're not. That's why you rarely see rappers like them in these precarious situations.NoCompetition wrote: »Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »Lol@ "they were wrong to rob him". They were street ? ls that's what they do. Da ? you gonna jump into the ocean and get mad that a shark bit you? Lol like I said before pac had no business dealing with them and even worse taking gifts and ? from them either. So yes, his stupidity gets blame also
Bizarre comment. This the type thing I was speakin on. Sayin it aint wrong to rob and shoot a rapper dude. Kinda hard to even...once someone takes that fundamental stance what can you say?
What I read in OB4CL's comments was that Pac kinda compromized himself since he was willingly and knowingly surrounding himself with these 'real street n*ggas' when he wasn't one. This guy was a soft spoken mama's boy, taking ballet classes and perfecting his craft at dramaschool. He had an affinity for rap and acting but was never no derelict street n*gga and (in hindsight) he had no business associating with these shady n*ggas. He felt the need to dumb himself down and associate himself with derelict street n*ggas and real hustlers though and it led to him getting railroaded (the ? conviction), robbed & beat up (Quad city robbing), incarcerated (behind the ? conviction) and ultimately killed (in Vegas). -
It is wrong to rob anyone, period. I think the reactions would've been different if it was a rapper like Talib Kweli getting done the same way Pac got done. Rappers like Kweli stay in their lane and don't try to be a part of something they're not. That's why you rarely see rappers like them in these precarious situations.NoCompetition wrote: »Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »Lol@ "they were wrong to rob him". They were street ? ls that's what they do. Da ? you gonna jump into the ocean and get mad that a shark bit you? Lol like I said before pac had no business dealing with them and even worse taking gifts and ? from them either. So yes, his stupidity gets blame also
Bizarre comment. This the type thing I was speakin on. Sayin it aint wrong to rob and shoot a rapper dude. Kinda hard to even...once someone takes that fundamental stance what can you say?
What I read in OB4CL's comments was that Pac kinda compromized himself since he was willingly and knowingly surrounding himself with these 'real street n*ggas' when he wasn't one. This guy was a soft spoken mama's boy, taking ballet classes and perfecting his craft at dramaschool. He had an affinity for rap and acting but was never no derelict street n*gga and (in hindsight) he had no business associating with these shady n*ggas. He felt the need to dumb himself down and associate himself with derelict street n*ggas and real hustlers though and it led to him getting railroaded (the ? conviction), robbed & beat up (Quad city robbing), incarcerated (behind the ? conviction) and ultimately killed (in Vegas).
What Im gettin is kind of a dont blame the victim...but...type of thing. Of course there is something to that. You in the wrong for robbin someone but on the flip side dont put yourself in those positions...At the same time I been around long enough to learn "those positions" arent always what they look like...I just cant blame dude for that situation no matter what. I think a bias has to be there. Like you just gotta like not like dude then you will fill it in. meanwhile Pac's one of my fave rappers. As far as the stuff about his life, who knows what he saw by all accounts he was very poor and in some places that...lets just say who knows what he saw and experienced. At the same time he was smart enough to go to school and try to excel. And found legal ways to make money. To many of us in communities thats inspiring while others seem to hate him. I dont run into Pac haters very often at all down here so I dont know. I know Shock G said he was always a thug before he was famous and everything. He'd do his thing then go be in the streets. Dude knew him better than any of us. -
? really arguing, basically trying to ? on Pac, because he may have shot himself in the midst of trying to defend himself being robbed
? aren't slow, you're basically mocking him like he Plaxico/Cheddar Bob'd himself. You're basically saying 'man it wasn't even about gunplay, Pac made it that way bc he overreacted to being robbed"
As if a ? is gon be thinking 'oh, this is just the discipline rob, not the murder rob. Let me just chill
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NoCompetition wrote: »
It is wrong to rob anyone, period. I think the reactions would've been different if it was a rapper like Talib Kweli getting done the same way Pac got done. Rappers like Kweli stay in their lane and don't try to be a part of something they're not. That's why you rarely see rappers like them in these precarious situations.NoCompetition wrote: »Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »Lol@ "they were wrong to rob him". They were street ? ls that's what they do. Da ? you gonna jump into the ocean and get mad that a shark bit you? Lol like I said before pac had no business dealing with them and even worse taking gifts and ? from them either. So yes, his stupidity gets blame also
Bizarre comment. This the type thing I was speakin on. Sayin it aint wrong to rob and shoot a rapper dude. Kinda hard to even...once someone takes that fundamental stance what can you say?
What I read in OB4CL's comments was that Pac kinda compromized himself since he was willingly and knowingly surrounding himself with these 'real street n*ggas' when he wasn't one. This guy was a soft spoken mama's boy, taking ballet classes and perfecting his craft at dramaschool. He had an affinity for rap and acting but was never no derelict street n*gga and (in hindsight) he had no business associating with these shady n*ggas. He felt the need to dumb himself down and associate himself with derelict street n*ggas and real hustlers though and it led to him getting railroaded (the ? conviction), robbed & beat up (Quad city robbing), incarcerated (behind the ? conviction) and ultimately killed (in Vegas).
What Im gettin is kind of a dont blame the victim...but...type of thing. Of course there is something to that. You in the wrong for robbin someone but on the flip side dont put yourself in those positions...At the same time I been around long enough to learn "those positions" arent always what they look like...I just cant blame dude for that situation no matter what. I think a bias has to be there. Like you just gotta like not like dude then you will fill it in. meanwhile Pac's one of my fave rappers. As far as the stuff about his life, who knows what he saw by all accounts he was very poor and in some places that...lets just say who knows what he saw and experienced. At the same time he was smart enough to go to school and try to excel. And found legal ways to make money. To many of us in communities thats inspiring while others seem to hate him. I dont run into Pac haters very often at all down here so I dont know. I know Shock G said he was always a thug before he was famous and everything. He'd do his thing then go be in the streets. Dude knew him better than any of us.
Man dog don't pay them ? no attention they just some bitter ny ? still mad at pac 20 years later for ? on they favorite rappers -
NoCompetition wrote: »
It is wrong to rob anyone, period. I think the reactions would've been different if it was a rapper like Talib Kweli getting done the same way Pac got done. Rappers like Kweli stay in their lane and don't try to be a part of something they're not. That's why you rarely see rappers like them in these precarious situations.NoCompetition wrote: »Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »Lol@ "they were wrong to rob him". They were street ? ls that's what they do. Da ? you gonna jump into the ocean and get mad that a shark bit you? Lol like I said before pac had no business dealing with them and even worse taking gifts and ? from them either. So yes, his stupidity gets blame also
Bizarre comment. This the type thing I was speakin on. Sayin it aint wrong to rob and shoot a rapper dude. Kinda hard to even...once someone takes that fundamental stance what can you say?
What I read in OB4CL's comments was that Pac kinda compromized himself since he was willingly and knowingly surrounding himself with these 'real street n*ggas' when he wasn't one. This guy was a soft spoken mama's boy, taking ballet classes and perfecting his craft at dramaschool. He had an affinity for rap and acting but was never no derelict street n*gga and (in hindsight) he had no business associating with these shady n*ggas. He felt the need to dumb himself down and associate himself with derelict street n*ggas and real hustlers though and it led to him getting railroaded (the ? conviction), robbed & beat up (Quad city robbing), incarcerated (behind the ? conviction) and ultimately killed (in Vegas).
What Im gettin is kind of a dont blame the victim...but...type of thing. Of course there is something to that. You in the wrong for robbin someone but on the flip side dont put yourself in those positions...At the same time I been around long enough to learn "those positions" arent always what they look like...I just cant blame dude for that situation no matter what. I think a bias has to be there. Like you just gotta like not like dude then you will fill it in. meanwhile Pac's one of my fave rappers. As far as the stuff about his life, who knows what he saw by all accounts he was very poor and in some places that...lets just say who knows what he saw and experienced. At the same time he was smart enough to go to school and try to excel. And found legal ways to make money. To many of us in communities thats inspiring while others seem to hate him. I dont run into Pac haters very often at all down here so I dont know. I know Shock G said he was always a thug before he was famous and everything. He'd do his thing then go be in the streets. Dude knew him better than any of us.
Man dog don't pay them ? no attention they just some bitter ny ? still mad at pac 20 years later for ? on they favorite rappers
Most the ? in the thread aren't even from ny but I am and yet pac is my favorite rapper. So once again, you sound stupid -
Jimmy Henchman must've been this big bad boogie man of NYC. I don't see why anybody would be scared of a snitch.
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Pac fans in here like "people in here blaming pac for being robbed"....thats not what im saying at all.
Im pointing out how tons of pac fans believe the myth that he was Supa ? , everyone was scared of him, and that he was incapable of bending the truth.....which all 3 things were pretty much disproven in the Vibe article.
For the most part, it seems like pac fans dont even realize that he wasnt perceived as this high profile ? his entire career.
Pac wasnt even running the west coast b4 he signed to death row....that honor went to Cube & NWA.
Nobody was remotely poppin that GOAT ? bout pac back then.
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i wonder how they gonna depict the quad shooting in the upcoming pac movie
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Do what you feel you must do, but posts like that only make you seem emotional, childish and petty. Posts like that don't add anything to the thread.NoCompetition wrote: »
It is wrong to rob anyone, period. I think the reactions would've been different if it was a rapper like Talib Kweli getting done the same way Pac got done. Rappers like Kweli stay in their lane and don't try to be a part of something they're not. That's why you rarely see rappers like them in these precarious situations.NoCompetition wrote: »Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »Lol@ "they were wrong to rob him". They were street ? ls that's what they do. Da ? you gonna jump into the ocean and get mad that a shark bit you? Lol like I said before pac had no business dealing with them and even worse taking gifts and ? from them either. So yes, his stupidity gets blame also
Bizarre comment. This the type thing I was speakin on. Sayin it aint wrong to rob and shoot a rapper dude. Kinda hard to even...once someone takes that fundamental stance what can you say?
What I read in OB4CL's comments was that Pac kinda compromized himself since he was willingly and knowingly surrounding himself with these 'real street n*ggas' when he wasn't one. This guy was a soft spoken mama's boy, taking ballet classes and perfecting his craft at dramaschool. He had an affinity for rap and acting but was never no derelict street n*gga and (in hindsight) he had no business associating with these shady n*ggas. He felt the need to dumb himself down and associate himself with derelict street n*ggas and real hustlers though and it led to him getting railroaded (the ? conviction), robbed & beat up (Quad city robbing), incarcerated (behind the ? conviction) and ultimately killed (in Vegas).
What Im gettin is kind of a dont blame the victim...but...type of thing. Of course there is something to that. You in the wrong for robbin someone but on the flip side dont put yourself in those positions...At the same time I been around long enough to learn "those positions" arent always what they look like...I just cant blame dude for that situation no matter what. I think a bias has to be there. Like you just gotta like not like dude then you will fill it in. meanwhile Pac's one of my fave rappers. As far as the stuff about his life, who knows what he saw by all accounts he was very poor and in some places that...lets just say who knows what he saw and experienced. At the same time he was smart enough to go to school and try to excel. And found legal ways to make money. To many of us in communities thats inspiring while others seem to hate him. I dont run into Pac haters very often at all down here so I dont know. I know Shock G said he was always a thug before he was famous and everything. He'd do his thing then go be in the streets. Dude knew him better than any of us.
Man dog don't pay them ? no attention they just some bitter ny ? still mad at pac 20 years later for ? on they favorite rappers
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@lethal5
good look droppin those vibe interviews bro.
Does anybody have the original Pac interview that Stretch, henchmen, puff etc are referring to in their interviews? -
Pac fans in here like "people in here blaming pac for being robbed"....thats not what im saying at all.
Im pointing out how tons of pac fans believe the myth that he was Supa ? , everyone was scared of him, and that he was incapable of bending the truth.....which all 3 things were pretty much disproven in the Vibe article.
For the most part, it seems like pac fans dont even realize that he wasnt perceived as this high profile ? his entire career.
Pac wasnt even running the west coast b4 he signed to death row....that honor went to Cube & NWA.
Nobody was remotely poppin that GOAT ? bout pac back then.
Now now, lets keep this objective and not emotional
1) We can look at sales figures to dispute 'that goat ? '. The numbers don't lie, he was a rock star before death nh
2) Your numbers don't add up. NWA was dead far before 96, and Friday was released in 95. Cube was retired AT LEAST by 94. He had already transitoned to retired OG so he wasnt "running' the rest unless you're referring to screenplays.
3) I don't understand the 'super ? ' ? . More subjective emotion. Pac got robbed and shot is logically the only things needed to now.
Unless you're one of those people that would blame Sean Taylor for being shot. Ya know, bc he pulled out a samarai sword, bc his instinct was to protect himself (and his family). So do you blame him for 'getting himself killed'? Well....do you?
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These dudes really argue like children. Like if you don't agree with my stance on this artist, you must be bias/ bitter/ from NY/ a hater etc. This will be my last post in this thread...
The only point OB4CL and others made was Pac compromised himself by associating himself with real streetn*ggas when he wasn't one. You can't hang around with and accept gifts from known gangsters and not expect them wanting something in return.
There's a difference between growing up poor and being a 'streetn*gga'. Not every n*gga from a single parent home in the hood is a 'thug'.
I also like how these guys cite sources when they substantiate their points, but omit them when they don't. From Marlon Wayans to Big Syke to Lil Shawn to MC Eiht have all said the same thing about Pac, but let's just go with what Shock G said.
Pac is my fav rapper. Wasn't feeling most of his stuff before MATW dropped though. I can like a rapper, but still use logic and argue the facts instead of my emotions. That's what grown men do.
Let's compare this to Chris Breezy. When I say Chris Brown should tone down on that blood sh*t, I'm not 'hating' on him or have a personal issue. I'm just saying he's putting himself in potentially hazardous situations by associating himself with liabilities. -
IT is funny to me how you Pac haters and fake fans want to take as gospel the statements of Kats he said conspired against him like they would just stop conspiring to tell their sides of the story and the articles are not them building their own narrative. But then most of you are the same ones that back in the day really wanted to believe the media misdirection pushed by these same Kats that made it look like Suge set up Pac. Faulty ass Logic I guess rings true to those who have succumbed to indoctrination and propaganda....
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What other artist could it be though, he wasn't shot in Kansas, he was shot in a NY studio and the artist their were interviewed. LL didn't say ? LA because some dumb as Crips thought he was blood evening though he's from NYC(pre UBN)because he was wearing red.international wrote: »All this recent posts and accounts of what happened, just basically help me understand why Pac was like ? NY, clearly, the whole damn indsutry and different representatives of NY record labels, insiders and rappers tried to ? on Pac in the Vibe magazine, and mock him...
All this does is help me understand where Pac was coming from and why he was on some ? NY ? , move to Cali then came back and ? on all them snake ass ? ...yep makes all the sense now
Yeah man pac was rolling with some real snakes ?
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Pac fans in here like "people in here blaming pac for being robbed"....thats not what im saying at all.
Im pointing out how tons of pac fans believe the myth that he was Supa ? , everyone was scared of him, and that he was incapable of bending the truth.....which all 3 things were pretty much disproven in the Vibe article.
For the most part, it seems like pac fans dont even realize that he wasnt perceived as this high profile ? his entire career.
Pac wasnt even running the west coast b4 he signed to death row....that honor went to Cube & NWA.
Nobody was remotely poppin that GOAT ? bout pac back then.
Now now, lets keep this objective and not emotional
1) We can look at sales figures to dispute 'that goat ? '. The numbers don't lie, he was a rock star before death nh
2) Your numbers don't add up. NWA was dead far before 96, and Friday was released in 95. Cube was retired AT LEAST by 94. He had already transitoned to retired OG so he wasnt "running' the rest unless you're referring to screenplays.
3) I don't understand the 'super ? ' ? . More subjective emotion. Pac got robbed and shot is logically the only things needed to now.
Unless you're one of those people that would blame Sean Taylor for being shot. Ya know, bc he pulled out a samarai sword, bc his instinct was to protect himself (and his family). So do you blame him for 'getting himself killed'? Well....do you?
@S2J
Its like im wasting my time trying to talk logical to some of yall.
Yall always try to pull the Oke Doke....comparing apples to oranges.
1) Sales? Since when did sales validate good hip hop? So i guess u saying Vanilla Ice & MC Hammer are among the GOATs?
2) This pac quad shooting popped off in 94, MATW came out after he got sentenced. So right before MATW Pac was not running the west coast with Strictly For My ? .....that honor would go to the NWA family tree (nwa or solo cube or solo dr dre)
3) When I say Supa ? , Im reffering to the countless pac fans who take Hit em up literally....unless u signed up to this site yesterday, u should have MAD experience reading pac fans say ? like "Pac was a thug, none of them east coast ? could say ? to him, ? are scared to say his name in songs
(Side note: Sublimals were a hip hop tradition, not done outta fear.....u trying to tell me kool moe dee was scared of LL cause he didn't mention is name on How U Like Me Now? (Kool literally was begging Cool J to battle live, ll didnt want it). Did LL fear Canibus cause he didnt say his name on 4321?) -
Pac fans in here like "people in here blaming pac for being robbed"....thats not what im saying at all.
Im pointing out how tons of pac fans believe the myth that he was Supa ? , everyone was scared of him, and that he was incapable of bending the truth.....which all 3 things were pretty much disproven in the Vibe article.
For the most part, it seems like pac fans dont even realize that he wasnt perceived as this high profile ? his entire career.
Pac wasnt even running the west coast b4 he signed to death row....that honor went to Cube & NWA.
Nobody was remotely poppin that GOAT ? bout pac back then.
Now now, lets keep this objective and not emotional
1) We can look at sales figures to dispute 'that goat ? '. The numbers don't lie, he was a rock star before death nh
2) Your numbers don't add up. NWA was dead far before 96, and Friday was released in 95. Cube was retired AT LEAST by 94. He had already transitoned to retired OG so he wasnt "running' the rest unless you're referring to screenplays.
3) I don't understand the 'super ? ' ? . More subjective emotion. Pac got robbed and shot is logically the only things needed to now.
Unless you're one of those people that would blame Sean Taylor for being shot. Ya know, bc he pulled out a samarai sword, bc his instinct was to protect himself (and his family). So do you blame him for 'getting himself killed'? Well....do you?
1. In another thread someone said why would Pac be jealous of Biggie when he was WAY bigger than Biggie. I responded with RIAA certification that before All Eyes on me, Biggie was reaching Plat and double plat faster than Pac was.
You have to view things in context and for the time period of for the event(s).
2. Yea he was wrong but NWA but he was right about Pac not running the West, Death Row was and Snoop was the premier artist. Now Pac did doldier the rest of the Death Row artist when he got their but before that, nope. -
Lets focus in here people
@lethal5 I don't argue with people who either use the term "Pac fans" or people who pay attention and base arguments off those people. I call them wrestling fans. Bc they are the ones that revert to black and white categories like we're still 10-15 year olds during the east coast west coast beef. They are the type of people reading this who will assume I am a "Pac stan" and a "Biggie hater". That's cornball ? so if that's what ur basing ANYTHING on, good day we have nothin to talk about.
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I really hate all these tangents but when I see something blatantly wrong I must address it.
@hiphop12345 says he "responded with RIAA certification that before All Eyes on me, Biggie was reaching Plat and double plat faster than Pac was".
The Googles say: that is a lie. Fire your numbers guy.
Ready to Die, September 13, 1994: The album shipped 57,000 units in its first week of release.
Me Against the World, March 14,1995: The album debuted at the number one spot on the Billboard 200 chart and stayed there for 4 weeks straight, it sold 240,000 copies in the first week
2Pac wins on immediate impact. Ok, he was already established. That was big's 1st album. Lets dig further
Ready to Die: "... was certified double platinum on October 16, 1995, only a year and one month after its release. 13 months.
Me Against the World: On December 6, 1995, Me Against the World was certified double platinum. 9 months.
Bonus: Pac also destroys Big on global impact: "(MAW) also debuted at number one on the Top R&B/Hip-Hop Albums chart, thus giving 2Pac the first number one album on both R&B and Pop charts.[23] While Shakur was in prison, the album over-took Bruce Springsteen's Greatest Hits as the best-selling album in the United States"
So, lets just stick to facts gentlemen. This is NOT EVEN accounting for 2pac's movie career and his notoriety. Bc good, bad, or indifferent, we all know fame and fuckery increases a person's spotlight. So it has been proven: A living breathing Pac was considerably more famous, in any way you want to measure, than a living breathing Big
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Ready to Die
4x Multi-Platinum | October 19, 1999
3x Multi-Platinum | August 26, 1998
2x Multi-Platinum | October 16, 1995
Platinum | March 14, 1995
Gold | November 16, 1994
https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&ar=&ti=ready+to+die&lab=&genre=&format=&date_option=release&from=&to=&award=&type=&category=&adv=SEARCH#search_section
Life After Death
10x Multi-Platinum | January 6, 2000
9x Multi-Platinum | December 9, 1999
8x Multi-Platinum | November 6, 1998
7x Multi-Platinum | January 7, 1998
6x Multi-Platinum | August 1, 1997
Platinum | August 1, 1997
Gold | August 1, 1997
https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&ar=&ti=Life+after+death&lab=&genre=&format=&date_option=release&from=&to=&award=&type=&category=&adv=SEARCH#search_section
Me Against The World
2x Multi-Platinum | December 6, 1995
Platinum | April 26, 1995
Gold | April 26, 1995
https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&ar=&ti=me+against+the+world&lab=&genre=&format=&date_option=release&from=&to=&award=&type=&category=&adv=SEARCH#search_section
All Eyez On Me
10x Multi-Platinum | July 23, 2014
9x Multi-Platinum | June 18, 1998
8x Multi-Platinum | June 16, 1998
7x Multi-Platinum | December 9, 1996
6x Multi-Platinum | September 19, 1996
5x Multi-Platinum | April 25, 1996
Platinum | April 25, 1996
Gold | April 25, 1996
https://www.riaa.com/gold-platinum/?tab_active=default-award&ar=&ti=all+eyez+on+me&lab=&genre=&format=&date_option=release&from=&to=&award=&type=&category=&adv=SEARCH#search_section -
I said to myself, self, no one is dumb enough to drop total album sales to date, in a debate on who was bigger while they were alive. Surely no one will do this.
Shame on me.
Not to mention....do you really want to debate "who's bigger in death, Pac or Big'??? Just failure all around. -
I don't know wtf you ? is talking about but Pac was a bigger star than Big from jump since he was already 3 albums in before Big dropped and he was acting as well. Still if you cornballs are saying Pac stopped Big's shine you're an idiot. Big was a rising star and Pac was an established actor/rapper and controversial figure so he was leaps and bounds ahead of Big far as media/attention goes.
Far as the shooting goes Pac shot himself trying to defend himself that's not an L. You goofy ? flip ? and think it was but it wasn't he was going his joint in close quarters and it went off no more no less.
Stop rewriting hostory
You talkin bout rewriting history, but the bolded is showing your bias. Bc it acts to undercut the underlined.
Lets forget about the '3 albums in already' part and focus more on the acting---which u mention like it was just handed to him---and him being a controversial figure.
Nas was an established rapper before Jay yet Jay still eclipsed him in fame, so just coming 'first' had nothing to do with it.
Pac was more famous than Big, bc Pac was Pac and Big was Big. That's that.
