Lets address the misogynoirism in Black Community....

Swiffness! wrote: »

Ajackson17 wrote: »

I always say look at different African cultures and let's study in how our ancestors held the culture. Men handled the production while women handle the market place. Check the 1929 rebellion in Nigeria. The elders watched the children while the parents work. This gives both black men and women the ability to live up to their potential and gives the elders to educate the youth on their years. This is a good system and check out ibn battuta journey in west Africa. He makes it a point that black women were more free and talking and befriending men not sexually but friends with men they are not related. Showing clear signs our ancestors did not abuse women.

Willie Lynch sure took care of that, didn't he?

Misogyny among Black Men feels like a ? cult sometimes. Frankly I'm shocked this thread has been as civil as it was. I expected 500 replies of "these hoes ain't ? " and a legion of flags & PM ? pics for any female poster that dared to show their face.

Yeah, my opinion of humanity is that low.

obnoxiouslyfresh wrote: »

I think if black men were to ever go through a period of self reflection, it would be difficult to deny that as a whole that your treatment of your women has been disappointing.

smh ban this shrill unreasonable woman

Real ? don't do periods of self reflection, b.

desertrain10 wrote: »

The Lonious Monk wrote: »

desertrain10 wrote: »

objective facts?

I was asked for my OPINION in regards to what I thought could be done to combat/address misogynoir in the blk community? specifically what blk men could do

that said, i believe we live in a society that often seeks to rob women of their agency and perpetuates hatred towards women, particularly those who offends the white, male, patriarchal gaze ...and I gave my opinion as to what I thought should be done about it...

nothing more, nothing less

and actually a lot of what I speak is echoed in the articles @purr posted

if you are referring to my stance on abortion, i'm not trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking. people are free to have their own opinions. my point was that, regardless of intent, if we make abortion illegal we would be forcing pregnant women to carry children to term they don't want. and that is effectively stripping away a woman's right to do as she pleases with her reproductive organs. its just that black and white.

i haven't always been on the right side of the aisle, but i like a lot of women would be ok with giving men the right to abort their financial obligations to their child before its conception

then some of the same politicians and contingencies who oppose abortion aren't fans of the pill either. they along with others oppose the idea of birth control and or support the idea that birth control should not be covered by health insurance, arguing its sinful. but what they really mean is women are only meant to be baby receptacles for their husbands. never do they consider that birth control is often times used for a variety of medical conditions not just as a contraceptive

sadly we as a society entertain this garbage. and you know how it hurts the most? women of color

in regards to welfare reform, i was referring to our support of the politicians who were pushing this narrative that it was welfare that created black single mothers. and that there was this large contingent of blk women having tons of babies, only to push their fathers out the home, just to get a welfare check. these single mothers, rather then structural barriers and racism, were the real architects of american ghettos. even today we regurgitate the toxic rhetoric. i bring this up because i believe SOME of the support and this need to see certain women suffer "because they need to be held responsible for their actions" , even if it counterproductive/ means their children will suffer as well, is fueled by self hate and misogyny

which brings me to my next point, i think we need to redefine what it means to be a man. a lot of ppl associate masculinity most with ? , hyper-sexuality, physicality and material wealth. shunning all things feminine. obviously this can be problematic, especially for members of marginalized communities. this can help to explain why women of color are at a greater risk of being abused by an intimate partner. and how most black women murdered are murdered by men and most blk women murdered are nearly always killed by men they know intimately

I think you misunderstood my point. I wasn't knocking you. I was pointing out that for matters like this, all you guys can do is give opinions. @purr is basically telling us that we can't engage with you guys until we shut up and are educated by you guys. But you can't educate us with your opinions. You have to tell us your opinions on how things can be fixed and allow us to discuss.

As for your opinions, I don't really agree with most of what you say because I feel its very biased and completely misses the male side. It's not that I think that what you're saying is unreasonable. I don't. I just think that there needs to be a back and forth in order to get to a solution. That's how you solve problems. You don't tell one side to shut up and acquiesce.

But yeah society sets up stupid contradictions. I'm not outright against abortion but I'm not a fan of it. That said anyone who is outright against abortion but also against contraception is an idiot. And not allowing birth control to be put on insurance hurts men too. After all, there might not be nearly as many dudes with their pockets being drained if women could have that kind of access to birth control.

Lastly, I'd agree that we need to be more mindful of what we teach men. The hypersexuality and overagression hurts us just as much as it hurts you. However, some of you are going overboard. As men, we should be strong and we shouldn't be forced to embrace femininity in ourselves. The education system is already trying to redefine how boys are raised and taught. It's stamping out everything that benefits boys and pushing what is beneficial to girls. The results of that pretty much across the board is that boys are falling behind in school and no longer thriving. That's why you see all the initiatives to get schools for boys. It's not because people are against girls. It's because society is trying so hard to overcorrect for the injustices shown towards women that it's hurting boys. You feminists don't see that because you don't care about that. It doesn't fit your agenda, and you'd never see it without active discourse with men.

Considering misogynoir is often used to describe prejudice experienced by blk women in a range of contexts, who is best to share their experiences and help people understand than blk women

That said, what I think @purr was making the point that if we are going to have a healthy discussion in terms of solutions participants should first have an understanding of what it means to be a blk woman

Biased how? We are discussing misogynoir, obviously my posts are going to centered on the experiences and plight of blk women

And yes, not allowing birth control to be put on insurance hurts men too. Doesn't make it any less an assault on women

Sexism, patriarchy, gender roles hurts both men and women to varying degrees

For ex, some like to argue society doesn't hold women accountable for their actions to the same effect as men. But then again, I could argue women's actions are considered less affective, less meaningful and less significant than male actions. So while women may get a collective pass when it comes to certain offenses, we also get collectively passed over when it comes to promotion to jobs with real authority and power

In regards to dropout and graduation rates, grades, and many test scores that show boys faring poorly compared to girls, I would contend
ingrained sexism and gender roles is hampering schooling for both boys and girls. Studies show biased teachers are steering girls away from STEM which could potentiallylimit a woman's career opportunities and earnings in the future. I believe the attainment gap has more to do with factors outside the school house considering middle to low income boys and boys of color are far more likely to fall behind their female counterparts. boys seem to be more sensitive than girls to disadvantage. any disadvantage, like growing up in poverty or and in a bad neighborhood.

Same as ingrained sexism and gender roles continue to hurt both men and women, so does misogyny

Misogyny, the hatred, ridicule, and fear of femininity, can structure male experience as much as female experience. In some ways, in fact, misogyny can be even more restrictive for men than for women. I think it's a big reason why men commit suicide more frequently than women, even though women typically have higher rates of mental health disorders like depression. Men are discouraged from doing things that could possible help them to cope with the pressures of life like discussing their emotions and fears with others because it's feminine

D. Morgan wrote: »

gorilla wrote: »

Some very good posts in here. My thoughts on the topic are:

1. I really don't see everyday examples of what this whole gripe is about. What I see are examples of disrespect and it goes both ways. For every black man you see disrespecting a sista, you see a sista disrespecting a black man. Arguing who's at fault is some chicken or the egg stuff

2. Our women need to get off that feminist ? . It was never ever (ever ever) designed with them in mind. White women were ? at how they were treated by their white husbands, with the crux of the issue being they were tired of getting ? on in their own homes (their husbands sleeping with the slaves, their children being more attached to their slave nanny than them. Having no say so in voting etc). Black men were in no position to do this kind of ? to their women. At the end of the day, all the black man and woman had was each other, why would brothas mess that up? The proof is in how hard the racist establishment worked to break the families up. During the women's suffrage, white women recruited black women for their numbers. They wouldn't even allow them to march alongside or attend their gatherings. The black women had to march and meet separately. How the ? is that some women unity ? ?

3. I find it hella ironic that women are discussing the idea of "what it means to be a man" yet they don't want anybody telling them ? at all. A woman can't tell a man how to be a man anymore than a man can do the same to a woman. That ? is about men hating women trying to control and manipulate the black man. The 90's was a huge turning point in how our women viewed us. Day in and day out they were told we weren't ? and were subliminally given the message that they don't need us. Some actually latched on to that idea

4. Brothas do need to respect our sistas and protect them. That has to coincide with the actions of our sistas though. In other words, the same sistas on that black men need to respect us stuff, need to condemn the amber rose's of our community who over sexualize themselves for attention. Respect and protection comes with how you respect and protect yourself first. Can't have it both ways.

You know whats ? up about the bold? It's the fact that Amber Rose is not black at all. Yet with all the ain't ? stuff this ? does she is viewed as black because she has been on the arm and in the bed of some famous black people. This is the leniage she comes from "Her father is of Irish and Italian descent and her mother is of Cape Verdean and Scottish descent." Ain't ? black about it!!!!

Amber Rose Suggests Some Family Didn't Attend Her Wedding to Wiz Khalifa Because He's African American

"With my family, they feel like they're more superior or better than an African American because we're Creole and we have culture and that's something I battle with most of my life," she explained in a sneak peek of Light Girls airing Monday night. "It's more of the older people in my family."

We as black people gotta stop accepting ? like this.

Purr wrote: »

This is not necessarily about respect, but recognizing black womanhood as an agency.
Recognize, actively listen and understand us -- black women.

We are not monolithic people and that is disrespectful to all black people, including cisgender, transfolk, LGBTQ people.

We are a dynamic group of people, we are unique, caring, jubilant, musical, thoughtful, and beautiful people.

But we cannot express our culture or expect freedom, if we all aint free or freely uses devices or be agents of white supremacy to our own people.