African Americans Should Stop Lionizing Castro
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sorry, there's absolutely something wrong with a dictatorship.Nothing wrong with dictatorship
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JokerzWyld wrote: »JokerzWyld wrote: »This thread is redundant. We already got this opinion of Castro in the last thread. If you feel the need to make these threads then do so, but I ask that the disapproval be consistent. Similar threads should be dedicated to Somoza, Diem, Pinochet, Trujillo, Duvalier, Mobutu, etc.
My stance has been consistent. Don't just pick at the parts of his legacy that agree with your anti US gov't stance to make him out to be a hero because he wasn't. He became exactly what he claimed to be against to maintain his power
Are you willing to to acknowledge the role of US influence on Cuban politics since their revolution against Spain? You excoriate his actions but refuse to acknowledge the 638 assassination attempts that altered the man Castro was and the politics he subscribed to? I honestly view this thread as subjective in regard to Cuban history. Did Castro deny his people? Who knows, but what is known is that the 65 embargo on his country had pushed him deeper into the hands of communism and is just as responsible for what was to come.
Yes I do acknowledge those things. Look at my posts about him I'm consistent with saying tell the whole story. And what do you mean who knows if he denied his people? It's a documented fact he did. You can call what the US did to get him out of power ? up while still saying Castro himself became exactly the dictator he once fought against
I say "who knows" because Castro may not have had access to the necessities for his people because of the embargo on his country. The OAS denied trade to the Cuban people to spite Castro for his politics, which caused him to embrace those politics more fervently. You can only hold Castro accountable for the decisions he made within the context of the choices he had. -
2stepz_ahead wrote: »I knew a few cubans in the dR
trust me when i say.....dark skin is still very bad to have.but its twice as bad in latin america.
white cubans look at themselves as cuban. and they look at black cubans as afro cubans.....thats ? .
cubas whole culture is based off africa....maybe not whole but alot.
i hate seeing how dark skinned people are treated in latin America.
they showed it as soon as obama opened cuba up. the dark skinned people started to get pushed out....
case and point
http://bostonreview.net/world/michelle-chase-us-cuba-relations-afro-cuban-inequality
This is perfect... the only thing is, most Latinos dont even look at blk latino as afro latino... they look at them as just blk, and not latino, despite 75% of the culture is Afro Latino influenced.
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2stepz_ahead wrote: »I knew a few cubans in the dR
trust me when i say.....dark skin is still very bad to have.but its twice as bad in latin america.
white cubans look at themselves as cuban. and they look at black cubans as afro cubans.....thats ? .
cubas whole culture is based off africa....maybe not whole but alot.
i hate seeing how dark skinned people are treated in latin America.
they showed it as soon as obama opened cuba up. the dark skinned people started to get pushed out....
case and point
http://bostonreview.net/world/michelle-chase-us-cuba-relations-afro-cuban-inequality
This is perfect... the only thing is, most Latinos dont even look at blk latino as afro latino... they look at them as just blk, and not latino, despite 75% of the culture is Afro Latino influenced.
If you're not a black latino you really can't accurately speak on this...I've said it before on here the only times in my life I've ever had my race or ethnicity questioned is from black Americans who are shocked that black Latinos exist. Other latinos acknowledge us as just what we are...black latin people. Go watch the series Henry Louis Gates did and you'll see -
JokerzWyld wrote: »JokerzWyld wrote: »JokerzWyld wrote: »This thread is redundant. We already got this opinion of Castro in the last thread. If you feel the need to make these threads then do so, but I ask that the disapproval be consistent. Similar threads should be dedicated to Somoza, Diem, Pinochet, Trujillo, Duvalier, Mobutu, etc.
My stance has been consistent. Don't just pick at the parts of his legacy that agree with your anti US gov't stance to make him out to be a hero because he wasn't. He became exactly what he claimed to be against to maintain his power
Are you willing to to acknowledge the role of US influence on Cuban politics since their revolution against Spain? You excoriate his actions but refuse to acknowledge the 638 assassination attempts that altered the man Castro was and the politics he subscribed to? I honestly view this thread as subjective in regard to Cuban history. Did Castro deny his people? Who knows, but what is known is that the 65 embargo on his country had pushed him deeper into the hands of communism and is just as responsible for what was to come.
Yes I do acknowledge those things. Look at my posts about him I'm consistent with saying tell the whole story. And what do you mean who knows if he denied his people? It's a documented fact he did. You can call what the US did to get him out of power ? up while still saying Castro himself became exactly the dictator he once fought against
I say "who knows" because Castro may not have had access to the necessities for his people because of the embargo on his country. The OAS denied trade to the Cuban people to spite Castro for his politics, which caused him to embrace those politics more fervently. You can only hold Castro accountable for the decisions he made within the context of the choices he had.
However you look at it he still made ? up choices that took the lives of people who did nothing more than disagree with him. Taking writers and artists out of their homes and having them killed simply for being against you had nothing to do with the trade embargo. That was Castro trying to ensure there was nobody who would speak out against him publicly. -
Training 1000 plus dissidents to invade a country in violation of an international treaty doesn't give you a moral high ground. Neither does supporting Dr. Orlando Bosch who blew up a Cuban airliner and fired a bazooka at a ship shipping humanitarian aid to Cuba. He received a week of celebration in Miami for his service. Any other country that did something like that again us would be a state sponsor of terrorism. History doesn't lie about these facts and policies.
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Using logic ppl logic in this ? again.
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JokerzWyld wrote: »Training 1000 plus dissidents to invade a country in violation of an international treaty doesn't give you a moral high ground. Neither does supporting Dr. Orlando Bosch who blew up a Cuban airliner and fired a bazooka at a ship shipping humanitarian aid to Cuba. He received a week of celebration in Miami for his service. Any other country that did something like that again us would be a state sponsor of terrorism. History doesn't lie about these facts and policies.
History also doesn't lie about the people Castro had killed...but he ? off America so it's cool right? -
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what about the embargo forced him to remain a dictator?JokerzWyld wrote: »I say "who knows" because Castro may not have had access to the necessities for his people because of the embargo on his country. The OAS denied trade to the Cuban people to spite Castro for his politics, which caused him to embrace those politics more fervently. You can only hold Castro accountable for the decisions he made within the context of the choices he had. -
if he did EVIL THINGS, why are you saying "welp, can't hate him because some white people do!" you can hate him for doing evil things!I don't believe western propaganda. Castro did evil things and had faults but I'll be damned if I hate him cuz the US and white Cubans want me too.
Cuz the crackers who did evil things in our country are on monuments and celebrated... while we cast stones at him. One nations leader is the next nations tyrant. It's all about perspective -
if he did EVIL THINGS, why are you saying "welp, can't hate him because some white people do!" you can hate him for doing evil things!I don't believe western propaganda. Castro did evil things and had faults but I'll be damned if I hate him cuz the US and white Cubans want me too.
Cuz the crackers who did evil things in our country are on monuments and celebrated... while we cast stones at him. One nations leader is the next nations tyrant. It's all about perspective
/thread -
if he did EVIL THINGS, why are you saying "welp, can't hate him because some white people do!" you can hate him for doing evil things!I don't believe western propaganda. Castro did evil things and had faults but I'll be damned if I hate him cuz the US and white Cubans want me too.
Cuz the crackers who did evil things in our country are on monuments and celebrated... while we cast stones at him. One nations leader is the next nations tyrant. It's all about perspective
What that have to do with him being a bad person/leader
What you saying is the equivalent of "what about black on black crime" -
Castro did some things good and alot of bad sh*t. Che Guevara was a known racist, but Argentinians have a reputation for not liking black people all over the latin world. Fidel allowed people like Assata to seek refuge in his country. He helped countries like Angola against South Africa. I know most positions of power were reserved for white Cubans though, eventhough alot of them left for Miami after the commies took over. That goes for most latin counties though. Positions of power are filled with white people. A black latin gotta marry a lighter mate to wipe out that blackness and ensure a better future for his or her offspring. It's messed up it gotta be like that. You even got sayings alluding to this marrying up = marrying lighter.
I'm from Curaçao originally and while racism is recognized alot of AA's can't seem to understand that there's a different racial stratification system in the latin world. That one drop rule that applied in the US, didn't apply in other parts of the New World. Because they have this idea that every black person should conform to the slave laws that were imposed on them (which that one drop rule was), they think that blacks or mixed people from the latin world aren't aware of racism. It's that dumb a*s hive mind too many of them have. You're a black man and you're not 'street' or 'acting hard' = you not 'real'. You're black and you're not into hip hop but into rock, alternative, country, EDM etc.? You're not 'real'. You don't dress a certain way? You're not 'real'. You vote Republican instead of democrat (you see where I'm going with this2stepz_ahead wrote: »I knew a few cubans in the dR
trust me when i say.....dark skin is still very bad to have.but its twice as bad in latin america.
white cubans look at themselves as cuban. and they look at black cubans as afro cubans.....thats ? .
cubas whole culture is based off africa....maybe not whole but alot.
i hate seeing how dark skinned people are treated in latin America.
they showed it as soon as obama opened cuba up. the dark skinned people started to get pushed out....
case and point
http://bostonreview.net/world/michelle-chase-us-cuba-relations-afro-cuban-inequality
Some folks think latinos don't recognize race or racism because we are proud of our country of origin. That's far from the truth. Race is an issue in Latin America it's just complex as ? . I've said on the IC before depending on where I'm at will determine my race to some people. In America I'm strictly Latino even though my mom is half Spanish as in her Dad is from Spain...in Panama I'm mixed. In some places I'm seen as black. It all depends on which parent I'm seen with. 2 of my uncles daughters both are light skin and have blonde hair and grey eyes while his middle daughter is like Nautri Naughton complexion and people don't even believe they're sisters at their high school but they all consider themselves young black women. The mixture we have in us can have families looking like a rainbow coalition and that shapes how many view themselves and their racial identity.
). We're aware of racism. We just don't whine about it every chance we get.
Matter of fact, African culture has been preserved in most latin countries, while AA have a slave culture. Unlike AA's we can see where ancestors of blacks in the latin world came from. For instance, Dominicans and Cubans have alot Yoruba ancestry. You can see the similarities between santeria and Yoruba. Colombians got Congo ancestry. Unlike anywhere on US soil there were alot of successful slave revolts in the latin world. Blacks fled to places inaccessible to their former masters and black sanctuaries where African culture was preserved flourished.
My grandpa has been to Panama, Costa Rica and Belize years ago. What I heard about it, was the black population there had a more West Indian culture than anything else. Alot of them had English names and spoke patois, but some were mixed with Indians and Spanish as well. I even heard about how some black Arubans moved to Panama generations ago. I plan on visiting that region in the near future. i hear the wildlife and the country in general is beautiful. You know it's all love.
From personal experience I can say most racism a black person will face in the latin world is intra racism. If a person has a problem with your complexion, African features or w/e, it'll be a black person before anyone else... -
Shizlansky wrote: »
if he did EVIL THINGS, why are you saying "welp, can't hate him because some white people do!" you can hate him for doing evil things!I don't believe western propaganda. Castro did evil things and had faults but I'll be damned if I hate him cuz the US and white Cubans want me too.
Cuz the crackers who did evil things in our country are on monuments and celebrated... while we cast stones at him. One nations leader is the next nations tyrant. It's all about perspective
What that have to do with him being a bad person/leader
What you saying is the equivalent of "what about black on black crime"
Him being a bad person and leader is subjective and/or relative. There are some people who loved him and thought that he was great. -
if he did EVIL THINGS, why are you saying "welp, can't hate him because some white people do!" you can hate him for doing evil things!I don't believe western propaganda. Castro did evil things and had faults but I'll be damned if I hate him cuz the US and white Cubans want me too.
Cuz the crackers who did evil things in our country are on monuments and celebrated... while we cast stones at him. One nations leader is the next nations tyrant. It's all about perspective
Or you could just call them all ? up... -
Shizlansky wrote: »
if he did EVIL THINGS, why are you saying "welp, can't hate him because some white people do!" you can hate him for doing evil things!I don't believe western propaganda. Castro did evil things and had faults but I'll be damned if I hate him cuz the US and white Cubans want me too.
Cuz the crackers who did evil things in our country are on monuments and celebrated... while we cast stones at him. One nations leader is the next nations tyrant. It's all about perspective
What that have to do with him being a bad person/leader
What you saying is the equivalent of "what about black on black crime"
Nope it's the equivalent of stop judging if ur house ain't in order. Talk about his good and bad just like we do our leaders. -
if he did EVIL THINGS, why are you saying "welp, can't hate him because some white people do!" you can hate him for doing evil things!I don't believe western propaganda. Castro did evil things and had faults but I'll be damned if I hate him cuz the US and white Cubans want me too.
Cuz the crackers who did evil things in our country are on monuments and celebrated... while we cast stones at him. One nations leader is the next nations tyrant. It's all about perspective
Or you could just call them all ? up...
But in this country the knowledge u get is one sided . So half the folk on the ? Castro tip don't even know why. It's cuz they told me he was bad -
if he did EVIL THINGS, why are you saying "welp, can't hate him because some white people do!" you can hate him for doing evil things!I don't believe western propaganda. Castro did evil things and had faults but I'll be damned if I hate him cuz the US and white Cubans want me too.
Cuz the crackers who did evil things in our country are on monuments and celebrated... while we cast stones at him. One nations leader is the next nations tyrant. It's all about perspective
Or you could just call them all ? up...
But in this country the knowledge u get is one sided . So half the folk on the ? Castro tip don't even know why. It's cuz they told me he was bad
So then tell them to research him but offering up defenses of him or using the I won't say he's bad just because the US does when he clearly did some ? up things just makes anyone who takes that argument ignorant -
Are our presidents evil tyrants? To us we will say no. Folk in Iraq and other places will say yes. The reality is it's in the middle same with Castro
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here's a perspective: you can actually criticize crackers who did evil ? in America AND a dictator who did evil ? in Cuba at the same time.Cuz the crackers who did evil things in our country are on monuments and celebrated... while we cast stones at him. One nations leader is the next nations tyrant. It's all about perspective
who was the leader of their country more recently: the crackers on the monuments or Castro?Nope it's the equivalent of stop judging if ur house ain't in order. Talk about his good and bad just like we do our leaders.
of course, our presidents leave office. Castro was a dictator for decades. it's a lot easier for me to call one of those two choices a tyrant.Are our presidents evil tyrants? To us we will say no. Folk in Iraq and other places will say yes. The reality is it's in the middle same with Castro -
Shizlansky wrote: »
if he did EVIL THINGS, why are you saying "welp, can't hate him because some white people do!" you can hate him for doing evil things!I don't believe western propaganda. Castro did evil things and had faults but I'll be damned if I hate him cuz the US and white Cubans want me too.
Cuz the crackers who did evil things in our country are on monuments and celebrated... while we cast stones at him. One nations leader is the next nations tyrant. It's all about perspective
What that have to do with him being a bad person/leader
What you saying is the equivalent of "what about black on black crime"
Nope it's the equivalent of stop judging if ur house ain't in order. Talk about his good and bad just like we do our leaders.
Lol
So stop judging if your house ain't in order? Sounds just like when white ppl bring up black on black crime
It's a reason why so many damn Cubans defect from there. Hell their baseball players gotta get smuggled out the country -
Shizlansky wrote: »Shizlansky wrote: »
if he did EVIL THINGS, why are you saying "welp, can't hate him because some white people do!" you can hate him for doing evil things!I don't believe western propaganda. Castro did evil things and had faults but I'll be damned if I hate him cuz the US and white Cubans want me too.
Cuz the crackers who did evil things in our country are on monuments and celebrated... while we cast stones at him. One nations leader is the next nations tyrant. It's all about perspective
What that have to do with him being a bad person/leader
What you saying is the equivalent of "what about black on black crime"
Nope it's the equivalent of stop judging if ur house ain't in order. Talk about his good and bad just like we do our leaders.
Lol
So stop judging if your house ain't in order? Sounds just like when white ppl bring up black on black crime
It's a reason why so many damn Cubans defect from there. Hell their baseball players gotta get smuggled out the country
It means you can't judge someone when the US has done as much if not more ? up ? . Cubans defect for the same reason why people leave small or 3rd world countries. -
5th Letter wrote: »Shizlansky wrote: »Shizlansky wrote: »
if he did EVIL THINGS, why are you saying "welp, can't hate him because some white people do!" you can hate him for doing evil things!I don't believe western propaganda. Castro did evil things and had faults but I'll be damned if I hate him cuz the US and white Cubans want me too.
Cuz the crackers who did evil things in our country are on monuments and celebrated... while we cast stones at him. One nations leader is the next nations tyrant. It's all about perspective
What that have to do with him being a bad person/leader
What you saying is the equivalent of "what about black on black crime"
Nope it's the equivalent of stop judging if ur house ain't in order. Talk about his good and bad just like we do our leaders.
Lol
So stop judging if your house ain't in order? Sounds just like when white ppl bring up black on black crime
It's a reason why so many damn Cubans defect from there. Hell their baseball players gotta get smuggled out the country
It means you can't judge someone when the US has done as much if not more ? up ? . Cubans defect for the same reason why people leave small or 3rd world countries.
We are talking about a person. Just like we do with others.
Castro was a very bad leader -
what about the embargo forced him to remain a dictator?JokerzWyld wrote: »I say "who knows" because Castro may not have had access to the necessities for his people because of the embargo on his country. The OAS denied trade to the Cuban people to spite Castro for his politics, which caused him to embrace those politics more fervently. You can only hold Castro accountable for the decisions he made within the context of the choices he had.
The better question is why they responded to this specific dictator with those international pressures (assassination attempts, embargoes, etc.) but did nothing about Rafael Trujillo, François Duvalier, Anastasio Somoza, Mobutu, etc.?
The fact is that people focus on Castro's deeds as a means of indicting his politics, which is subjective. He imprisoned his citizens for their politics? So did Richard Nixon. Castro killed thousands of people? LBJ killed millions. Castro denied democracy to citizens? The country you praise has has never had a democracy at all, neither in practice nor on paper, and has undermined countless democracies abroad. It's not about defending Castro, it's about viewing politics, history, and media objectively.
