Best Rapper Of The New Millennium Final 4....#1 Kendrick Lamar vs #3 Lupe Fiasco (Lupe in the Final)

Sion wrote: »

@Roster Player #99

If this tournament is about all of the things that define a rapper then Lupe shouldn't have made it out the pools. Is this about rap ability, impact or all of those things ? Because if it is based on bars 50 Cent shouldn't be beating T.I. and you can vouch I'm a 50 Cent stan and proud of it. Lupe is a great lyricist but he doesn't do well with coherence or constructing good albums. Kendrick Lamar has the most consistent discography I've seen since OutKast and Kanye West. Not only that but Kendrick has made a much larger footprint on culture and rap music than Lupe has.

Lupe has a cult following because nerds love that he raps for them. But keeping it 100 Drogas Lite wasn't very good and neither was FL2. TY was a good album but was it more impactful than TPAB or GKMC ? No but was it a critically acclaimed piece of work I'm terms of quality ? Sure. At the same time the 2 have released equally as many albums but majority of Kendrick's have hit harder and been better received. Lupe is riding off the glory days of his first 2 albums and he's fallen off, not lyrically but in terms of status Lupe is not gonna be a first round draft pick compared to other names. The fact that Lupe goes out of his way to get Kendrick's attention when Kendrick came years after him speaks volumes as to how he sees himself because if not for Lupe being so emotional he'd be what Kendrick is to mainstream.

So let's bring it back, is this about All the things that define a rapper or just lyrics ? Because Lupe isn't even the top Don in his city he'd proudly confess that distinction goes to Kanye with all due respect. Kendrick on the other hand got knighted, he birthed Logic, Big Sean (I'm sorry Sean but you can't say you wasn't influenced), Mac Miller, Tyler The Creator and even more. Kendrick shook up the fame with Control and killed the super friends ? reminding ? it was a competition and it was verse of the year. Lupe has never had that type of effect or impact. Again that's not to take from him because he's a lyrical Messiah but he's not a good rapper in the context of comparing all the things that embody rap. He's a phenomenal MC, the same way Master P is a phenomenal businessman but not so much a lyricist. Kendrick on the other hand has mastered putting the medicine in the candy, being outspoken and consistently putting out quality music every time. You can't even name a bad Kendrick album. Not only that he's unapologetically black and puts it in a rap. He doesn't code or sugar coat ignore require you to have some deep intellect to be apart of his conversation the way Lupe implies sometimes. Even on a lyrical level, Kendrick is one of the best lyricists in rap and will get even better with time so I ask you again fam is this about lyricism ? Or EVERYTHING THAT EMBODIES WHAT A RAPPER IS ?? Because if this about lyrics 50 Cent shouldn't have made it this far, that tells me that people are subconsciously counting it but out of subjectivity, are voting for who they like better.

Kendrick Lamar IS better than Lupe in this context and it is blatantly obvious. ? even Kendrick's crew is nasty AF on the mic. Of the two both died today Kendrick would be hailed on the same tier as Biggie and Pac, Punisher and them. Lupe you know dayum well like I know they'll respect him and give him a statue but he's not going to be called top 5 DOA of he dies tomorrow. But like I said why bother debating this ? It's very obvious the better artist is Kendrick but you gotta let ? have their favourites. You mean to tell me in your heart and soul if you had to choose between the two... Lupe is the BEST rapper of the new millennium of rappers ?????? Objectively I don't think he is and for the reasons I listed. You can't really say anything bad about Kendrick Lamar unless you have a personal dislike for dude for whatever reason or prejudices towards others and there's nothing wrong with that but it's not the objective truth between who is better between the two.

JonnyRoccIT wrote: »

Roster Player #99 wrote: »

JonnyRoccIT wrote: »

Roster Player #99 wrote: »

Sion wrote: »

Roster Player #99 wrote: »

@Sion you gotta 'splain yourself bruh. You named a bunch of subjective stuff you think merits one person over the other. Im interested.

I feel like it's so apparent tho and that it's subjectivity over favorites that have Lupe winning. Do YOU personally believe Lupe is the best rapper of the new millennium ? Think of what that entails. Like NaS is worshipped on the IC but it's the reverse IRL. I mean KRIT swept Weezy....

It's just a poll to me and I'm not mad because soon ? gonna turn on J.Cole too. I knew ? would grow tired of Kendrick after he exceeded expectations. I'll be back later with my titangraph if I don't remember to by nightfall just @ me.

I definitely hate to see ? try and argue favorites. Same time, I don't think what cats here consider new millennium vs what the new millennium actually is helps the debate. We're talking about a guy thats been in the game at least 7 years before Dot came out. Other hand, we got the guy with the most current hot ? amongst his peers against a guy who is practically making albums to cater to his cult-like following.

I think if we get into all that, we can discern who's who in the grand scheme of things. But if we take this tournament's title at face value.....yes, I believe Lupe is the best RAPPER of the new millennium. Love Dot, love what he's doing, what he's apparently about and stands for, I ? wit it. But for me, especially considering the things you and @JonnyRoccIT are using as criterion, it looks like projected fandom. But bar for bar, sans all that extra ? people bring up to validate arguments, Lupe has been able to stand next to Jay since his infancy in rap, if not out-rap the ? . I think that warrants the titles alone.

Not at all...seems like you're trying to use that against us because you know it's True. You may Prefer Lupe, but no ? Way is he Better than Kendrick at all.

Oh yeah,

Please let's not use Jay as the Top in today's Rap scene. Cause if so, Kendrick tore his ass up in "Please Don't ? my Vibe Remix". Which from his Debut major label album. So Obviously Kendrick can stand next to Jay or even out rap Jay, So leave Jay out...

Homeboy, idk what tearing a track up is to you, but you like what you like and vice that. Not hear to debate that. But to reply to me with a "not at all" tells me you aint ready for that convo. Get some darts and we can talk about it.

? , if you want to, we can go on about the Jay ? too. Lemme know.

Lol brah, YOU'RE not ready...you can't even provide your own Criteria and points to why Lupe is a Better rapper.

I provided some and you called it "projected fandom" lol okay, you got it brah

And you really wanna argue that Kendrick didn't ? on Jay on that Track.? C'mon dawg

TheGOAT wrote: »

Lupe boring and overhyped on the IC

Ol karate shoe wearing ass

Sion wrote: »

Olorun22 wrote: »

TheGOAT wrote: »

Olorun22 wrote: »

TheGOAT wrote: »

Olorun22 wrote: »

TheGOAT wrote: »

Lupe boring and overhyped on the IC

Ol karate shoe wearing ass

And tpab wasn't????

TPAB >>>>> T&Y

You didn't answer the question

This the IC

The stans of both sides always claim insta classics.

Neither album was classic... Both were treated lime masterpieces on the IC

TPAB was better

You respond twice without answering the question. We all know tpab didn't have mass appeal like gkmc.

You can play like 2 or 3 songs in the car or working out..

If this is your reason why Kendrick Lamar or TPAB isn't a good album you're a tool and sheep SMMFH. Those were 2 completely different albums.

So that completely overshadows that was an album arguing for the plight of the black man and how the influence of religion, societal hypocrisies of the time all convolute and destroy what it means to be black ? That's what he was getting to on the album. He made an album he wanted people to sit down and listen to he said this in interviews.

And btw where has Lupe done that and made a whole album for that ? I'll say it again once an artist surpasses expectations ? start to lose interest and turn on them. Don't worry J.Cole and all of them will go through it.

Sion wrote: »

Roster Player #99 wrote: »

Sion wrote: »

@Roster Player #99

If this tournament is about all of the things that define a rapper then Lupe shouldn't have made it out the pools. Is this about rap ability, impact or all of those things ? Because if it is based on bars 50 Cent shouldn't be beating T.I. and you can vouch I'm a 50 Cent stan and proud of it. Lupe is a great lyricist but he doesn't do well with coherence or constructing good albums. Kendrick Lamar has the most consistent discography I've seen since OutKast and Kanye West. Not only that but Kendrick has made a much larger footprint on culture and rap music than Lupe has.

Lupe has a cult following because nerds love that he raps for them. But keeping it 100 Drogas Lite wasn't very good and neither was FL2. TY was a good album but was it more impactful than TPAB or GKMC ? No but was it a critically acclaimed piece of work I'm terms of quality ? Sure. At the same time the 2 have released equally as many albums but majority of Kendrick's have hit harder and been better received. Lupe is riding off the glory days of his first 2 albums and he's fallen off, not lyrically but in terms of status Lupe is not gonna be a first round draft pick compared to other names. The fact that Lupe goes out of his way to get Kendrick's attention when Kendrick came years after him speaks volumes as to how he sees himself because if not for Lupe being so emotional he'd be what Kendrick is to mainstream.

So let's bring it back, is this about All the things that define a rapper or just lyrics ? Because Lupe isn't even the top Don in his city he'd proudly confess that distinction goes to Kanye with all due respect. Kendrick on the other hand got knighted, he birthed Logic, Big Sean (I'm sorry Sean but you can't say you wasn't influenced), Mac Miller, Tyler The Creator and even more. Kendrick shook up the fame with Control and killed the super friends ? reminding ? it was a competition and it was verse of the year. Lupe has never had that type of effect or impact. Again that's not to take from him because he's a lyrical Messiah but he's not a good rapper in the context of comparing all the things that embody rap. He's a phenomenal MC, the same way Master P is a phenomenal businessman but not so much a lyricist. Kendrick on the other hand has mastered putting the medicine in the candy, being outspoken and consistently putting out quality music every time. You can't even name a bad Kendrick album. Not only that he's unapologetically black and puts it in a rap. He doesn't code or sugar coat ignore require you to have some deep intellect to be apart of his conversation the way Lupe implies sometimes. Even on a lyrical level, Kendrick is one of the best lyricists in rap and will get even better with time so I ask you again fam is this about lyricism ? Or EVERYTHING THAT EMBODIES WHAT A RAPPER IS ?? Because if this about lyrics 50 Cent shouldn't have made it this far, that tells me that people are subconsciously counting it but out of subjectivity, are voting for who they like better.

Kendrick Lamar IS better than Lupe in this context and it is blatantly obvious. ? even Kendrick's crew is nasty AF on the mic. Of the two both died today Kendrick would be hailed on the same tier as Biggie and Pac, Punisher and them. Lupe you know dayum well like I know they'll respect him and give him a statue but he's not going to be called top 5 DOA of he dies tomorrow. But like I said why bother debating this ? It's very obvious the better artist is Kendrick but you gotta let ? have their favourites. You mean to tell me in your heart and soul if you had to choose between the two... Lupe is the BEST rapper of the new millennium of rappers ?????? Objectively I don't think he is and for the reasons I listed. You can't really say anything bad about Kendrick Lamar unless you have a personal dislike for dude for whatever reason or prejudices towards others and there's nothing wrong with that but it's not the objective truth between who is better between the two.

I like it, I can dig it, I hear you. But I have to be clear on is: What is this impact you speak that Dot has made? He didn't change anything to my knowledge, he just existed where no one like him existed. Second, idk what you believe are the things that define a rapper because to my knowledge, rapping or defining rapper or rap is the easiest part......can the ? rap or not. Nothing to do with how many sneaker endorsements, nothing to do with who met Farrakhan first, none of that ? .

I think its almost hilarious that for the same reason one should laud a rapper, ? slight Lupe for. High-brow lyrics that people tend to feel they need a high IQ to digest. Its insane. Its like ? complaining about they steak being cooked too perfectly.

To another one of your points...............catalogue......bruh, the ? got three albums (not including section 80 but including the Untitled Unmastered ? ). Tf catalogue is y'all really listening too? His demos? But i'll digress there. My thing is, y'all make a lot of good points, but never tend to elaborate. For example, you'll say that something is wack, but not say how. @Sion @JonnyRoccIT tell me, HOW. HOW did Dot birth Sean, Tyler and Mac...who was out before him? HOW did TPAB or GKMC impact the rap game? HOW does Lupe's presumed "status" impact who he is amongst ? that rap? HOW did Dot out rap Jay on ? My Vibe?

Again, I like Dot, have nothing bad to say about him. All of his efforts range from solid to close to perfect for me. But this aint the "who can make a better concept album" tournament. This aint the "who is more popular AND can rap" tournament.

And i'll keep it funky, Dot aint even the best rapper in his crew @Sion

This is a deflection and shying away from the point. You're being very opinionated now. There are threads where you've said (the Oxymoron album thread) that Q and Jay Rock weren't as nice as Kendrick. Anyways, if we're going to have a meaningful debate about the two I'm going to need you to cut da ? mang !!!

Roster Player #99 wrote: »

Sion wrote: »

Roster Player #99 wrote: »

Sion wrote: »

@Roster Player #99

If this tournament is about all of the things that define a rapper then Lupe shouldn't have made it out the pools. Is this about rap ability, impact or all of those things ? Because if it is based on bars 50 Cent shouldn't be beating T.I. and you can vouch I'm a 50 Cent stan and proud of it. Lupe is a great lyricist but he doesn't do well with coherence or constructing good albums. Kendrick Lamar has the most consistent discography I've seen since OutKast and Kanye West. Not only that but Kendrick has made a much larger footprint on culture and rap music than Lupe has.

Lupe has a cult following because nerds love that he raps for them. But keeping it 100 Drogas Lite wasn't very good and neither was FL2. TY was a good album but was it more impactful than TPAB or GKMC ? No but was it a critically acclaimed piece of work I'm terms of quality ? Sure. At the same time the 2 have released equally as many albums but majority of Kendrick's have hit harder and been better received. Lupe is riding off the glory days of his first 2 albums and he's fallen off, not lyrically but in terms of status Lupe is not gonna be a first round draft pick compared to other names. The fact that Lupe goes out of his way to get Kendrick's attention when Kendrick came years after him speaks volumes as to how he sees himself because if not for Lupe being so emotional he'd be what Kendrick is to mainstream.

So let's bring it back, is this about All the things that define a rapper or just lyrics ? Because Lupe isn't even the top Don in his city he'd proudly confess that distinction goes to Kanye with all due respect. Kendrick on the other hand got knighted, he birthed Logic, Big Sean (I'm sorry Sean but you can't say you wasn't influenced), Mac Miller, Tyler The Creator and even more. Kendrick shook up the fame with Control and killed the super friends ? reminding ? it was a competition and it was verse of the year. Lupe has never had that type of effect or impact. Again that's not to take from him because he's a lyrical Messiah but he's not a good rapper in the context of comparing all the things that embody rap. He's a phenomenal MC, the same way Master P is a phenomenal businessman but not so much a lyricist. Kendrick on the other hand has mastered putting the medicine in the candy, being outspoken and consistently putting out quality music every time. You can't even name a bad Kendrick album. Not only that he's unapologetically black and puts it in a rap. He doesn't code or sugar coat ignore require you to have some deep intellect to be apart of his conversation the way Lupe implies sometimes. Even on a lyrical level, Kendrick is one of the best lyricists in rap and will get even better with time so I ask you again fam is this about lyricism ? Or EVERYTHING THAT EMBODIES WHAT A RAPPER IS ?? Because if this about lyrics 50 Cent shouldn't have made it this far, that tells me that people are subconsciously counting it but out of subjectivity, are voting for who they like better.

Kendrick Lamar IS better than Lupe in this context and it is blatantly obvious. ? even Kendrick's crew is nasty AF on the mic. Of the two both died today Kendrick would be hailed on the same tier as Biggie and Pac, Punisher and them. Lupe you know dayum well like I know they'll respect him and give him a statue but he's not going to be called top 5 DOA of he dies tomorrow. But like I said why bother debating this ? It's very obvious the better artist is Kendrick but you gotta let ? have their favourites. You mean to tell me in your heart and soul if you had to choose between the two... Lupe is the BEST rapper of the new millennium of rappers ?????? Objectively I don't think he is and for the reasons I listed. You can't really say anything bad about Kendrick Lamar unless you have a personal dislike for dude for whatever reason or prejudices towards others and there's nothing wrong with that but it's not the objective truth between who is better between the two.

I like it, I can dig it, I hear you. But I have to be clear on is: What is this impact you speak that Dot has made? He didn't change anything to my knowledge, he just existed where no one like him existed. Second, idk what you believe are the things that define a rapper because to my knowledge, rapping or defining rapper or rap is the easiest part......can the ? rap or not. Nothing to do with how many sneaker endorsements, nothing to do with who met Farrakhan first, none of that ? .

I think its almost hilarious that for the same reason one should laud a rapper, ? slight Lupe for. High-brow lyrics that people tend to feel they need a high IQ to digest. Its insane. Its like ? complaining about they steak being cooked too perfectly.

To another one of your points...............catalogue......bruh, the ? got three albums (not including section 80 but including the Untitled Unmastered ? ). Tf catalogue is y'all really listening too? His demos? But i'll digress there. My thing is, y'all make a lot of good points, but never tend to elaborate. For example, you'll say that something is wack, but not say how. @Sion @JonnyRoccIT tell me, HOW. HOW did Dot birth Sean, Tyler and Mac...who was out before him? HOW did TPAB or GKMC impact the rap game? HOW does Lupe's presumed "status" impact who he is amongst ? that rap? HOW did Dot out rap Jay on ? My Vibe?

Again, I like Dot, have nothing bad to say about him. All of his efforts range from solid to close to perfect for me. But this aint the "who can make a better concept album" tournament. This aint the "who is more popular AND can rap" tournament.

And i'll keep it funky, Dot aint even the best rapper in his crew @Sion

This is a deflection and shying away from the point. You're being very opinionated now. There are threads where you've said (the Oxymoron album thread) that Q and Jay Rock weren't as nice as Kendrick. Anyways, if we're going to have a meaningful debate about the two I'm going to need you to cut da ? mang !!!

??

Thats interesting. I think I'm getting directly to the point, you say Im deflecting. Thats some classic Johnnie Cochran ? you just pulled there. Far as Rock and Q.....theyre not better rappers than Dot. But Soulo got that crown in TDE. But we can table that for another thread.

Shizlansky wrote: »

Since 2000

Yall have K. Dot as the best rapper alive. Think about that ? for a minute.

Y'all done lost y'all minds

Sion wrote: »

No it isn't. The entire basis of your argument is built on Lupe's lyricism and you're also downplaying Kendrick's impact on his relative peer group while at the same downplaying his lyricism as well.

In one verse Kendrick reignited the competitive spirit of "beef" on wax on Control, GKMC is a classic album, there is no other album like TPAB you can name that has had the same theme or cultural impact it did articulated in the way it was. Lupe said on occasion that The Cool and FL were influenced by Illmatic and IWW to which he even said IWW was his favorite album ever.

You also fail to address the other fallacy, if the best rapper entails all aspects of hip-hop then why is 50 Cent in the semi finals if this is entirely about lyricism ? Kendrick on deep water, song for me, Compton, control I can name a million records but your subjectivity will downplay and deflect by bringing up TDE members and making claims Q, Rock and Soul are "better" lyricists than him when they've even praised Kendrick as being the best out and view him as their standard to beat.

What rappers has Lupe directly influenced ???? Cuz Logic, Vince Staples, Mac Miller and even Cole gave mad props to Kunta. Kendrick's TPAB also inspired these new rappers to take a jazzier approach to production (The Incredible Story, 4 Your Eyez Only, to name a few). While Cole's lyrical influence isn't Kendrick, you can't deny the similarities in music on his recent album to TPAB and you definitely can't deny Logic, Vince, Mac, Big Sean and others stylistically even (dare I say bite) mimic Kendrick's​ style.

The contradiction and shying away is you trying to take away impact, albums and all other things to only single out lyricism which is all that Lupe has going for him. If that's​ the case 50 Cent and T.I. have no business in the semis as there are far better lyricists than them.

No one is looking at Kendrick to sell shoes or anything but to the new millennium Kendrick IS the better rapper and double lapped Lupe. And btw Lupe has duds - L@SERS, Drogas Lite are lukewarm, FL2 is lukewarm too. Kendrick even has the stronger discography in terms of acclaim.

If this only has to boil down to lyricism then no one can be better because subjectivity will surely cloud judgement and there would be no end in sight. You can deflect but the truth can't be denied.