Rapper/MC/Lyricist (For people who say 2 pac a lyricist)
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power_wisdom
Members Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭✭✭
in The Reason
Do people on the IC know the between a rapper, a mc, and a lyricist? I hear statements like 2pac was a lyricist. Which in my opinion is not so. From my experience anyone who can make words rhyme in a song is a rapper they tend to rap about themselves and not much more . Example they rap about how dope THEY are, the ? THEY ? , the drugs THEY sell. A mc is a rapper that can create songs with original content and can be creative and have the ability to tell a story. They can write in a first ,second or third person perspective. A mc is a rapper, but a rapper is not necessarily a mc. A lyricist is a rapper or mc with superior word play. Punchlines, metaphors, double and triple entendre, bars after bars. The difference between a mc and a lyricist is that a mc can be lyrical at times. But a lyricist is super lyrical 95 % of the times. Example Guru was a nice Mc. He could be lyrical at times. Keith Murray is a lyricist. He is super lyrical 95% of the time. 2 pac was a great Mc. Biggie was too, but he was also a lyricist.
Comments
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That's alot being said.
I'm a bit more simple. An MC is a lyricists and rappers are not MC's. Point Blank Period.
However, there are different types of MC\lyricists.
Pac to me was an MC\Lyricists in the mold of Chuck D, Melle Mel,Ice T and Paris. Very direct in their approach and\or very heavy in political and social commentary. This type of MC isn't the whitty, wordplay MC but an MC none the less.
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Look at the Dog Pound. Both Daz and Kurupt were dope MCs. But Kurupt was lyrical superior to Daz. Das still did everything a mc does. And he did it very well. But Kurupt had better bars. His word play was more complex. Nothing wrong with being an Mc. But a lyricist is a lyrical specialist. Another example. LeBron is a great ball player. He can hit 3 pointers. He can hit a few a game. On a great night he can hit more than 5. Curry can hit a minimum of 5 on an average night. And probably over 10 on a great night. He is a 3 point specialist. Not Lebron. Same theory with the lyricist.
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Lyricist: "a writer of lyrics" ...How is 2Pac not a lyricist?
But anyway, 2Pac is one of the examples of a great lyricist because of how deep/diverse his lyrics are. Being lyrical doesn't mean how creative you are with wordplay or how well you can flow..it's about the contents of your lyrics. -
power_wisdom wrote: »Look at the Dog Pound. Both Daz and Kurupt were dope MCs. But Kurupt was lyrical superior to Daz. Das still did everything a mc does. And he did it very well. But Kurupt had better bars. His word play was more complex. Nothing wrong with being an Mc. But a lyricist is a lyrical specialist. Another example. LeBron is a great ball player. He can hit 3 pointers. He can hit a few a game. On a great night he can hit more than 5. Curry can hit a minimum of 5 on an average night. And probably over 10 on a great night. He is a 3 point specialist. Not Lebron. Same theory with the lyricist.
You can make it complex if you like.
Lebron and Curry are both Great B-Ball players. Just different styles of being great. -
Lyricist: "a writer of lyrics" ...How is 2Pac not a lyricist?
But anyway, 2Pac is one of the examples of a great lyricist because of how deep/diverse his lyrics are. Being lyrical doesn't mean how creative you are with wordplay or how well you can flow..it's about the contents of your lyrics.
That's a a general definition. But in hip-hop music every rapper is a writer of lyrics. By your logic 2 pac was a battle rapper, because he was in a rap beef. Theres levels to this ? . -
@juelz21 will let you know
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power_wisdom wrote: »Look at the Dog Pound. Both Daz and Kurupt were dope MCs. But Kurupt was lyrical superior to Daz. Das still did everything a mc does. And he did it very well. But Kurupt had better bars. His word play was more complex. Nothing wrong with being an Mc. But a lyricist is a lyrical specialist. Another example. LeBron is a great ball player. He can hit 3 pointers. He can hit a few a game. On a great night he can hit more than 5. Curry can hit a minimum of 5 on an average night. And probably over 10 on a great night. He is a 3 point specialist. Not Lebron. Same theory with the lyricist.
You can make it complex if you like.
Lebron and Curry are both Great B-Ball players. Just different styles of being great.
So there no term called 3 point specialist? A lyricist is complex. Alot of the times they were looked at as the better mc. Example Beans is look at as a better mc than Bleek mostly because of his lyrical ability. Most would say Beans is a lyricist. -
Shaq wasn't a great free throw shooter it doesn't mean that Shaq wasn't great at what he did. Pac wasn't lyrical but he made up for it in other areas. And he's a cultural icon and one of the greatest ever.
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5th Letter wrote: »Shaq wasn't a great free throw shooter it doesn't mean that Shaq wasn't great at what he did. Pac wasn't lyrical but he made up for it in other areas. And he's a cultural icon and one of the greatest ever.
And I said he was a great Mc. He was versatile in range with his conent, he a great flow and made great and classic albums. But some people say he was a lyricist and he wasnt. People rewrite the story of hip hop. Pac was no where close to being in the top 100 based off of lyrical ability only. It's not a bad thing either. That's why that call it top 5 MCs. Not lyricist. -
I hear statements like 2pac was a lyricist. Which in my opinion is not so
There you go, you ended your own argument -
Joker_De_La_Lover wrote: »I hear statements like 2pac was a lyricist. Which in my opinion is not so
There you go, you ended your own argument
It's all opinion. Music is subjective. Whats your point? -
It's all the same thing imo. Emcee/rapper etc.power_wisdom wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »Shaq wasn't a great free throw shooter it doesn't mean that Shaq wasn't great at what he did. Pac wasn't lyrical but he made up for it in other areas. And he's a cultural icon and one of the greatest ever.
And I said he was a great Mc. He was versatile in range with his conent, he a great flow and made great and classic albums. But some people say he was a lyricist and he wasnt. People rewrite the story of hip hop. Pac was no where close to being in the top 100 based off of lyrical ability only. It's not a bad thing either. That's why that call it top 5 MCs. Not lyricist.
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5th Letter wrote: »
It's all the same thing imo. Emcee/rapper etc.power_wisdom wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »Shaq wasn't a great free throw shooter it doesn't mean that Shaq wasn't great at what he did. Pac wasn't lyrical but he made up for it in other areas. And he's a cultural icon and one of the greatest ever.
And I said he was a great Mc. He was versatile in range with his conent, he a great flow and made great and classic albums. But some people say he was a lyricist and he wasnt. People rewrite the story of hip hop. Pac was no where close to being in the top 100 based off of lyrical ability only. It's not a bad thing either. That's why that call it top 5 MCs. Not lyricist.
It's not. That why you have Trap rappers and not Trap mcs. And Pusha T mostly rap about drugs but is considered a Mc not a trap rapper. Most of these trap rappers want nothing to do with complex rhyme schemes. -
power_wisdom wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »
It's all the same thing imo. Emcee/rapper etc.power_wisdom wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »Shaq wasn't a great free throw shooter it doesn't mean that Shaq wasn't great at what he did. Pac wasn't lyrical but he made up for it in other areas. And he's a cultural icon and one of the greatest ever.
And I said he was a great Mc. He was versatile in range with his conent, he a great flow and made great and classic albums. But some people say he was a lyricist and he wasnt. People rewrite the story of hip hop. Pac was no where close to being in the top 100 based off of lyrical ability only. It's not a bad thing either. That's why that call it top 5 MCs. Not lyricist.
It's not. That why you have Trap rappers and not Trap mcs. And Pusha T mostly rap about drugs but is considered a Mc not a trap rapper. Most of these trap rappers want nothing to do with complex rhyme schemes.
Emcee/rapper is the same thing. Trap rapper sounds better than trap emcee (lol). These artists/rappers/emcees have different styles but it's all the same thing. Trap is the style of rap or emceeing. Just like you have conscience rapper/emcee. -
Who cares about a label if the music is good....some of the fan favorite rappers are considered great MC's make ? music...how many lyricist can't craft a song to sound right
Anyone can call themselves an emcee...like they did in the 80's....doesnt mean ? to me...its almost cringe worthy at this point when a rapper refers to himself that way
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power_wisdom wrote: »Lyricist: "a writer of lyrics" ...How is 2Pac not a lyricist?
But anyway, 2Pac is one of the examples of a great lyricist because of how deep/diverse his lyrics are. Being lyrical doesn't mean how creative you are with wordplay or how well you can flow..it's about the contents of your lyrics.
That's a a general definition. But in hip-hop music every rapper is a writer of lyrics. By your logic 2 pac was a battle rapper, because he was in a rap beef. Theres levels to this ? .
I just explained why he was a good lyricist. -
A lyricist is a rapper or mc with superior word play. Punchlines, metaphors, double and triple entendre, bars after bars.
"Better bars" are subjective. Sometimes the metaphors, etc, lead up to a ? not saying nothing.
As much as I like Kurupt his best songs (in my opinion) where the ones on The Originals (with CJ Gennavise) album when he was telling stories and not as lyrical.
When he was going thru tough times and started to fall off a bit in the mid-2000s he was still super lyrical but for no reason....running out of other 3-4 syllable words to rhyme with Calico, Penegon, and Gallactica. As lyrical as it was it was wack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqkN6NVaggs -
5th Letter wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »
It's all the same thing imo. Emcee/rapper etc.power_wisdom wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »Shaq wasn't a great free throw shooter it doesn't mean that Shaq wasn't great at what he did. Pac wasn't lyrical but he made up for it in other areas. And he's a cultural icon and one of the greatest ever.
And I said he was a great Mc. He was versatile in range with his conent, he a great flow and made great and classic albums. But some people say he was a lyricist and he wasnt. People rewrite the story of hip hop. Pac was no where close to being in the top 100 based off of lyrical ability only. It's not a bad thing either. That's why that call it top 5 MCs. Not lyricist.
It's not. That why you have Trap rappers and not Trap mcs. And Pusha T mostly rap about drugs but is considered a Mc not a trap rapper. Most of these trap rappers want nothing to do with complex rhyme schemes.
Emcee/rapper is the same thing. Trap rapper sounds better than trap emcee (lol). These artists/rappers/emcees have different styles but it's all the same thing. Trap is the style of rap or emceeing. Just like you have conscience rapper/emcee.
Alot of these rappers couldnt write a story to save their mama lives. They have no depth at all. What Style P does is different than what Young thug does. This is an art right? In martial arts you have different styles and ranking based on skills right? Same thing with hip hop. Some of these rappers who don't even want to be called rappers rhyme for 6 months then try to put out a mixtape. Back in the day, you couldn't even get in a Cypher unless you had real skills.power_wisdom wrote: »Lyricist: "a writer of lyrics" ...How is 2Pac not a lyricist?
But anyway, 2Pac is one of the examples of a great lyricist because of how deep/diverse his lyrics are. Being lyrical doesn't mean how creative you are with wordplay or how well you can flow..it's about the contents of your lyrics.
That's a a general definition. But in hip-hop music every rapper is a writer of lyrics. By your logic 2 pac was a battle rapper, because he was in a rap beef. Theres levels to this ? .
I just explained why he was a good lyricist.
No you explained why he was a great mc. A singer can have deep lyrics. Don't make them a lyricist. You said Pac lyrics were diverse. Diverse means showing a great deal of variety; very different. But he often used the same words. His content was "diverse" not his lyrics. -
leftcoastkev wrote: »A lyricist is a rapper or mc with superior word play. Punchlines, metaphors, double and triple entendre, bars after bars.
"Better bars" are subjective. Sometimes the metaphors, etc, lead up to a ? not saying nothing.
As much as I like Kurupt his best songs (in my opinion) where the ones on The Originals (with CJ Gennavise) album when he was telling stories and not as lyrical.
When he was going thru tough times and started to fall off a bit in the mid-2000s he was still super lyrical but for no reason....running out of other 3-4 syllable words to rhyme with Calico, Penegon, and Gallactica. As lyrical as it was it was wack.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqkN6NVaggs
Didn't say the message was more clear, most of the time lyricist go over people heads. I just stated the difference. -
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/39291/what-is-it-that-made-pac-a-lyricist
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/962/stop-that-pac-wasnt-lyrical-sh-t
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/9528323#Comment_9528323
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/9608992#Comment_9608992
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/4293117#Comment_4293117
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/2316281#Comment_2316281
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/2244119#Comment_2244119
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lyricism is an art there is no rules to the art it just has to sound good
depth is based upon individual perception and is an opinion
lyricism paints a picture
it doesn't have to have multiple rhyme schemes
but if it does it doesn't take away either
I'll say it again lyricism paints a picture -
Thread.http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/39291/what-is-it-that-made-pac-a-lyricist
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/962/stop-that-pac-wasnt-lyrical-sh-t
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/9528323#Comment_9528323
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/9608992#Comment_9608992
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/4293117#Comment_4293117
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/2316281#Comment_2316281
http://community.allhiphop.com/discussion/comment/2244119#Comment_2244119
See you guys again in 5 years
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people are under the false impression that Complexity equal Lyricism which is not the case they are just reinventing the wheel so to speak...
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So I guess Young Thug, Chief Keith and Lil Yatty are lyricist. By your definition. I guess mcs that go out their way to intelligently use word in different creative ways are fools. A good mc can paint a picture without any complex words. That should be the job of any rapper. That has nothing to with lyricist. I understand why Jay-Z dumbed it down. People are so stupid it doesn't matter. This is why the art has become so garbage in that last 10 years. So I guess if we both go to school and you get C and D and I got straight A's we are both Scholars. No. We both are students but my work is on another level. Or if you go to the gym twice a week and I'm a body builder who goes every day . We both are body builders. No we both are members of the gym, but we both on different levels and have different titles. Lyricism isn't the art form. Hip hop is the art form. Rapping is a sub category of the art. Rap is the verbal manifestation of hip hop. Mcing is one who is a master of rapping. Lyricist one who using enhanced lyrics on a consistent basis to mc. 50cent and Jadakiss both use lyrics. 50 can be lyrical at times. But Jada is on another skill set. Thus Jada is a lyricist and 50 is a Mc.
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it's not just complexity of words
it's choice of words
that's why sometimes less complex mc can actually be a better lyricist
it's choice of words and how the mcs put's the words together like pieces to a puzzle
until a picture is formed
some make masterpieces some make a mess
a painting can come to a point of to many objects added
when you have the right amount of detail it's perfection to much and it looks cluttered
when you cook a recipe you have to add just the right amount of herbs and spices not enuff and it's dull
to much and it's to salty but when you get it just right it's perfection
