Roland Martin vs. Dr. Umar Johnson
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »Maybe the ? wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...? really try and defend him by just brushing over that ? . The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?
@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no ? ...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.
because......the message always gets lost
case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own ? ...but it not about the ? you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....
one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.
if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.
everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.
do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.
I feel you, but if you claim to be a leader and you do things that break potential unity that makes you bad for the movement.
Now maybe in his movement he only wants black people that follow the same rules he does. Then he can't say he's for the upliftment of black people like he says. He has to restrict that to being for the upliftment of Pan Africans and other like minded individuals.
how does he break unity?
just curious
He flat out says that people who make certain personal associations outside of the community (e.g. interracial marriages) are not respectable (at least in his eyes) and their efforts don't really amount to much. So that's a segment of the community that he probably won't work with and probably won't work with him. He says that he doesn't hold anything against the product of certain relationships, so he'll work with mixed people. But how many mixed people will work with him knowing his feelings toward their parents? It's unnecessary dissension.
What he actually said was "they would have a difficult time getting respect from him" not that they are not respectable. At least quote him correctly.
And, even though I don't 100% share that point of view, I understand the logic. I don't see how his disagreement with interracial marriage should stop people with interracial parents from working with him. If so, then I'd say ? it - don't work together then. That probably means that similar conflicts of interest would exist - in any situation where you put Black people first. -
I get his point if you're about black empowerment then be about it 100%. Dating interracially in his eyes is a contradiction. I personally don't agree with him on that, but I UNDERSTAND where's he's coming from.
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For those who oppose the idea that black people need to be with black people only I don't respect at all.
You don't see other groups of people saying that ? .
Do you see Chinese, Japanese, White, Mexican, Jews and Arabs arguing about you can be with another race and be include in the discussion? Nope -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »Maybe the ? wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...? really try and defend him by just brushing over that ? . The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?
@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no ? ...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.
because......the message always gets lost
case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own ? ...but it not about the ? you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....
one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.
if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.
everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.
do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.
I feel you, but if you claim to be a leader and you do things that break potential unity that makes you bad for the movement.
Now maybe in his movement he only wants black people that follow the same rules he does. Then he can't say he's for the upliftment of black people like he says. He has to restrict that to being for the upliftment of Pan Africans and other like minded individuals.
how does he break unity?
just curious
He flat out says that people who make certain personal associations outside of the community (e.g. interracial marriages) are not respectable (at least in his eyes) and their efforts don't really amount to much. So that's a segment of the community that he probably won't work with and probably won't work with him. He says that he doesn't hold anything against the product of certain relationships, so he'll work with mixed people. But how many mixed people will work with him knowing his feelings toward their parents? It's unnecessary dissension.
People who date outside the race do look funny to black folks. We don't need that type of imagery in the community to repair it. We already have colorism issues in the community and lightskin folks are a product of race mixing. You having be bring up this that is not need in the community and doesn't fix it at all.
To be quite frank we don't need mixed people at all for help and mixed people are rejected by white people because 1. they don't look like them 2. power is exclusive. So, what they feel about working with a group of black people who doesn't ? with their parents isn't our problem.
That line of thinking makes no sense. This isn't the Dominican Republic other Caribbean countries where there is some stratification based on color type and mixed people are their own thing. Mixed people are considered black in America, period. They always have been. And African Americans damn sure claim the accomplishments of mixed people as if they were all black. ? wasn't up in DC crying when Obama got elected because we finally got our first mixed president. He's called the first black president. Kapernick didn't take his stance as a mixed person. He did that as a black man. So I don't really get this anti-mixed sentiment that's on this board sometimes, and frankly it seems to be inconsistent as ? .
I'm also not really sure what you mean by dating outside the race looking funny to black folks. That ? is common as hell nowadays. I don't think that's a good thing by the way, but don't confuse Pan African rhetoric with the general feelings of the black community. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »Maybe the ? wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...? really try and defend him by just brushing over that ? . The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?
@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no ? ...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.
because......the message always gets lost
case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own ? ...but it not about the ? you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....
one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.
if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.
everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.
do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.
I feel you, but if you claim to be a leader and you do things that break potential unity that makes you bad for the movement.
Now maybe in his movement he only wants black people that follow the same rules he does. Then he can't say he's for the upliftment of black people like he says. He has to restrict that to being for the upliftment of Pan Africans and other like minded individuals.
how does he break unity?
just curious
He flat out says that people who make certain personal associations outside of the community (e.g. interracial marriages) are not respectable (at least in his eyes) and their efforts don't really amount to much. So that's a segment of the community that he probably won't work with and probably won't work with him. He says that he doesn't hold anything against the product of certain relationships, so he'll work with mixed people. But how many mixed people will work with him knowing his feelings toward their parents? It's unnecessary dissension.
ya know....
if black people were easy to build with....we would have already done it.
he is a part of a bigger problem like i said earlier.
brown eyes people look at green eyes a certain way
dark ? look at light ? a certain way
africans look at african americans a certain way
african americans look at everyone a certain way.
hood ? look at suburban ? a certain way.
but he the one being divisive?
we dont have enough fingers to point at everyone......so this one will be ok for now until the next ? comes along -
....
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For those who oppose the idea that black people need to be with black people only I don't respect at all.
You don't see other groups of people saying that ? .
Do you see Chinese, Japanese, White, Mexican, Jews and Arabs arguing about you can be with another race and be include in the discussion? Nope
Honestly I don't know what the ? those folks think. I don't read their social media or speak their language. It's one of the reasons I find that type of logic unconvincing. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »Maybe the ? wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...? really try and defend him by just brushing over that ? . The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?
@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no ? ...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.
because......the message always gets lost
case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own ? ...but it not about the ? you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....
one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.
if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.
everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.
do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.
I feel you, but if you claim to be a leader and you do things that break potential unity that makes you bad for the movement.
Now maybe in his movement he only wants black people that follow the same rules he does. Then he can't say he's for the upliftment of black people like he says. He has to restrict that to being for the upliftment of Pan Africans and other like minded individuals.
how does he break unity?
just curious
He flat out says that people who make certain personal associations outside of the community (e.g. interracial marriages) are not respectable (at least in his eyes) and their efforts don't really amount to much. So that's a segment of the community that he probably won't work with and probably won't work with him. He says that he doesn't hold anything against the product of certain relationships, so he'll work with mixed people. But how many mixed people will work with him knowing his feelings toward their parents? It's unnecessary dissension.
No my man. I need that quote not your interpretation. Furthermore, who cares what mixed people want to work with him? Who cares what non-mixed people want to work with Umar? If, Umar's stance on mixed marriage changed today it wouldn't benefit him not one iota. As long as Umar's message benefits Black folks he will receive the same amount of criticism.
You and others should come clean either you are either the product of an interracial relationship, are in one or are looking to creating one. Yall are grinding to hard on this trivial and minute point. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »Maybe the ? wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...? really try and defend him by just brushing over that ? . The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?
@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no ? ...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.
because......the message always gets lost
case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own ? ...but it not about the ? you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....
one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.
if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.
everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.
do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.
I feel you, but if you claim to be a leader and you do things that break potential unity that makes you bad for the movement.
Now maybe in his movement he only wants black people that follow the same rules he does. Then he can't say he's for the upliftment of black people like he says. He has to restrict that to being for the upliftment of Pan Africans and other like minded individuals.
how does he break unity?
just curious
He flat out says that people who make certain personal associations outside of the community (e.g. interracial marriages) are not respectable (at least in his eyes) and their efforts don't really amount to much. So that's a segment of the community that he probably won't work with and probably won't work with him. He says that he doesn't hold anything against the product of certain relationships, so he'll work with mixed people. But how many mixed people will work with him knowing his feelings toward their parents? It's unnecessary dissension.
People who date outside the race do look funny to black folks. We don't need that type of imagery in the community to repair it. We already have colorism issues in the community and lightskin folks are a product of race mixing. You having be bring up this that is not need in the community and doesn't fix it at all.
To be quite frank we don't need mixed people at all for help and mixed people are rejected by white people because 1. they don't look like them 2. power is exclusive. So, what they feel about working with a group of black people who doesn't ? with their parents isn't our problem.
That line of thinking makes no sense. This isn't the Dominican Republic other Caribbean countries where there is some stratification based on color type and mixed people are their own thing. Mixed people are considered black in America, period. They always have been. And African Americans damn sure claim the accomplishments of mixed people as if they were all black. ? wasn't up in DC crying when Obama got elected because we finally got our first mixed president. He's called the first black president. Kapernick didn't take his stance as a mixed person. He did that as a black man. So I don't really get this anti-mixed sentiment that's on this board sometimes, and frankly it seems to be inconsistent as ? .
I'm also not really sure what you mean by dating outside the race looking funny to black folks. That ? is common as hell nowadays. I don't think that's a good thing by the way, but don't confuse Pan African rhetoric with the general feelings of the black community.
on this site.....i was fighting about how black Obama was while others was saying he dont really understand the black struggle cause hes not all black and resources and yadda yadda.
i have met lots of mixed people here in europe who are confused as hell about who they are.
not white enough or not black enough.
not hood enough or too urban.
it is very inconsistent here....and i always point it out and people forget real easy cause its not what they want to hear.
? like to pick and choose when they have outrage...even if all the same thing.
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2stepz_ahead wrote: »Maybe the ? wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...? really try and defend him by just brushing over that ? . The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?
@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no ? ...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.
because......the message always gets lost
case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own ? ...but it not about the ? you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....
one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.
if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.
everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.
do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.
I'm all for allowing people to make mistakes. That's how you learn. What you seem to be against though is calling people out and correcting them for making mistakes. That leads to nowhere but repeating the same mistakes. The message doesn't get lost because someone is imperfect. The message gets lost when that person can't acknowledge or is constantly given a pass for their mistakes and never learning from them. That's what you constantly seem to miss. And no every little thing shouldn't be called out but when someone who not only bills themselves as an educator but also wants to start a school has some funny ? on their own educational resume what sense would it make to just brush over that like its a small thing? -
2stepz_ahead wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »Maybe the ? wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...? really try and defend him by just brushing over that ? . The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?
@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no ? ...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.
because......the message always gets lost
case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own ? ...but it not about the ? you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....
one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.
if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.
everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.
do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.
I feel you, but if you claim to be a leader and you do things that break potential unity that makes you bad for the movement.
Now maybe in his movement he only wants black people that follow the same rules he does. Then he can't say he's for the upliftment of black people like he says. He has to restrict that to being for the upliftment of Pan Africans and other like minded individuals.
how does he break unity?
just curious
He flat out says that people who make certain personal associations outside of the community (e.g. interracial marriages) are not respectable (at least in his eyes) and their efforts don't really amount to much. So that's a segment of the community that he probably won't work with and probably won't work with him. He says that he doesn't hold anything against the product of certain relationships, so he'll work with mixed people. But how many mixed people will work with him knowing his feelings toward their parents? It's unnecessary dissension.
ya know....
if black people were easy to build with....we would have already done it.
he is a part of a bigger problem like i said earlier.
brown eyes people look at green eyes a certain way
dark ? look at light ? a certain way
africans look at african americans a certain way
african americans look at everyone a certain way.
hood ? look at suburban ? a certain way.
but he the one being divisive?
we dont have enough fingers to point at everyone......so this one will be ok for now until the next ? comes along
I'm not blaming him for the division in our community. It runs far deeper than any one person. I'm only talking about his actions and words. Again, if lack of unity is our problem, why would you do or say anything to cause further schisms? Don't get me wrong, I do understand his point and why he is against miscegenation. I just don't think its beneficial to take such a hard lines stance against people who've done it. Especially when it comes along with sweeping generalizations that honestly probably don't apply that much these days. Umar basically said he believes a black men marry white women because they believe white is superior and that it will upgrade them. That was probably true years ago. Nowadays, I doubt most interracial dating occurs because of that. The only two dudes I know that really have gone down that route did it because they said that white women were easier. I don't think that's a very flattering perspective for whites. There is also convenience. Sometimes black people wind up in places where there aren't many black people. That's pretty easy when you only make up 13% of the population and you're mostly grouped in specific areas. There are a variety of reasons people intermarry, so generalizations like that and principles based on such generalizations are weak. -
2stepz_ahead wrote: »Maybe the ? wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...? really try and defend him by just brushing over that ? . The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?
@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no ? ...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.
because......the message always gets lost
case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own ? ...but it not about the ? you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....
one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.
if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.
everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.
do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.
I'm all for allowing people to make mistakes. That's how you learn. What you seem to be against though is calling people out and correcting them for making mistakes. That leads to nowhere but repeating the same mistakes. The message doesn't get lost because someone is imperfect. The message gets lost when that person can't acknowledge or is constantly given a pass for their mistakes and never learning from them. That's what you constantly seem to miss. And no every little thing shouldn't be called out but when someone who not only bills themselves as an educator but also wants to start a school has some funny ? on their own educational resume what sense would it make to just brush over that like its a small thing?
So, stop making the mistake of bringing up lame and trivial points that Umar has addressed year in and year out. -
Serious question for the Umar supporters. Do you really think there is a problem with people being skeptical about his plans for the school that haven't come to fruition yet? Granted I get you might have reasons for continued support, but do you really think it's wrong for people to want to grill him on this point?
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »Maybe the ? wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...? really try and defend him by just brushing over that ? . The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?
@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no ? ...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.
because......the message always gets lost
case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own ? ...but it not about the ? you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....
one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.
if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.
everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.
do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.
I feel you, but if you claim to be a leader and you do things that break potential unity that makes you bad for the movement.
Now maybe in his movement he only wants black people that follow the same rules he does. Then he can't say he's for the upliftment of black people like he says. He has to restrict that to being for the upliftment of Pan Africans and other like minded individuals.
how does he break unity?
just curious
He flat out says that people who make certain personal associations outside of the community (e.g. interracial marriages) are not respectable (at least in his eyes) and their efforts don't really amount to much. So that's a segment of the community that he probably won't work with and probably won't work with him. He says that he doesn't hold anything against the product of certain relationships, so he'll work with mixed people. But how many mixed people will work with him knowing his feelings toward their parents? It's unnecessary dissension.
People who date outside the race do look funny to black folks. We don't need that type of imagery in the community to repair it. We already have colorism issues in the community and lightskin folks are a product of race mixing. You having be bring up this that is not need in the community and doesn't fix it at all.
To be quite frank we don't need mixed people at all for help and mixed people are rejected by white people because 1. they don't look like them 2. power is exclusive. So, what they feel about working with a group of black people who doesn't ? with their parents isn't our problem.
That line of thinking makes no sense. This isn't the Dominican Republic other Caribbean countries where there is some stratification based on color type and mixed people are their own thing. Mixed people are considered black in America, period. They always have been. And African Americans damn sure claim the accomplishments of mixed people as if they were all black. ? wasn't up in DC crying when Obama got elected because we finally got our first mixed president. He's called the first black president. Kapernick didn't take his stance as a mixed person. He did that as a black man. So I don't really get this anti-mixed sentiment that's on this board sometimes, and frankly it seems to be inconsistent as ? .
I'm also not really sure what you mean by dating outside the race looking funny to black folks. That ? is common as hell nowadays. I don't think that's a good thing by the way, but don't confuse Pan African rhetoric with the general feelings of the black community.
You're not that type of person that can't bring solutions at all . You like confusion you bring in way too many variable for an solution and you inclusive you want to include anything. We have already been doing this and it's not the proper way to get thing done at all.
Race mixing isn't good for the group and causes confusion. Saying things like" she acting lightskin" "she thinks she pretty because she's light skin" "I got pretty hair" is from races mixing and it cause problems
Anti-mixing needs to stop and the way we stop that in our community is to look down on it because it causes problems that are not needed
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Do Jews date Germans?
Do sunni's date shi'ites?
? y'all seen what happened to the montagues and capulets....? died over Romeo and Juliet....well at least in the Leonardo decaprio movie....
Why can't we have that pride?? Same ones who don't see anything wrong with interracial marriage are the same ones who don't see how intergration hurt us...
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »Maybe the ? wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...? really try and defend him by just brushing over that ? . The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?
@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no ? ...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.
because......the message always gets lost
case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own ? ...but it not about the ? you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....
one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.
if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.
everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.
do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.
I feel you, but if you claim to be a leader and you do things that break potential unity that makes you bad for the movement.
Now maybe in his movement he only wants black people that follow the same rules he does. Then he can't say he's for the upliftment of black people like he says. He has to restrict that to being for the upliftment of Pan Africans and other like minded individuals.
how does he break unity?
just curious
He flat out says that people who make certain personal associations outside of the community (e.g. interracial marriages) are not respectable (at least in his eyes) and their efforts don't really amount to much. So that's a segment of the community that he probably won't work with and probably won't work with him. He says that he doesn't hold anything against the product of certain relationships, so he'll work with mixed people. But how many mixed people will work with him knowing his feelings toward their parents? It's unnecessary dissension.
ya know....
if black people were easy to build with....we would have already done it.
he is a part of a bigger problem like i said earlier.
brown eyes people look at green eyes a certain way
dark ? look at light ? a certain way
africans look at african americans a certain way
african americans look at everyone a certain way.
hood ? look at suburban ? a certain way.
but he the one being divisive?
we dont have enough fingers to point at everyone......so this one will be ok for now until the next ? comes along
I'm not blaming him for the division in our community. It runs far deeper than any one person. I'm only talking about his actions and words. Again, if lack of unity is our problem, why would you do or say anything to cause further schisms? Don't get me wrong, I do understand his point and why he is against miscegenation. I just don't think its beneficial to take such a hard lines stance against people who've done it. Especially when it comes along with sweeping generalizations that honestly probably don't apply that much these days. Umar basically said he believes a black men marry white women because they believe white is superior and that it will upgrade them. That was probably true years ago. Nowadays, I doubt most interracial dating occurs because of that. The only two dudes I know that really have gone down that route did it because they said that white women were easier. I don't think that's a very flattering perspective for whites. There is also convenience. Sometimes black people wind up in places where there aren't many black people. That's pretty easy when you only make up 13% of the population and you're mostly grouped in specific areas. There are a variety of reasons people intermarry, so generalizations like that and principles based on such generalizations are weak.
Umar spoke much deep on the subject. In fact he even mentioned how love is a western construct. And how people can control whom they love and ultimately end up marrying. He spoke to how Black Men are making the conscious effort to marry white if and when they do. You are purposely misquoting and loosely interpreting what Umar has said. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Serious question for the Umar supporters. Do you really think there is a problem with people being skeptical about his plans for the school that haven't come to fruition yet? Granted I get you might have reasons for continued support, but do you really think it's wrong for people to want to grill him on this point?
If they have donated money. They have the right to ask those questions.
If they haven't donated they can feel skeptical and that is understandable
If they haven't donated no you shouldn't want to grill him about it. Who the ? are you to be asking that man about what he doing with other peoples money that you haven't contributed to? -
I dont disagree with this mans message yesterday, today and likely wont tomorrow.
That enough for me to ? wifh em.
People criticize Polight the same way to this day. I ? with him too.
I will always love and respect someone that teaches me. I learned a lot watching this brother and the things i didnt learn he at least stirred up my curiosity to go teach myself. -
2stepz_ahead wrote: »Maybe the ? wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...? really try and defend him by just brushing over that ? . The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?
@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no ? ...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.
because......the message always gets lost
case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own ? ...but it not about the ? you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....
one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.
if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.
everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.
do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.
I'm all for allowing people to make mistakes. That's how you learn. What you seem to be against though is calling people out and correcting them for making mistakes. That leads to nowhere but repeating the same mistakes. The message doesn't get lost because someone is imperfect. The message gets lost when that person can't acknowledge or is constantly given a pass for their mistakes and never learning from them. That's what you constantly seem to miss. And no every little thing shouldn't be called out but when someone who not only bills themselves as an educator but also wants to start a school has some funny ? on their own educational resume what sense would it make to just brush over that like its a small thing?
ok,,
take the message you can fukks with...and the rest is his problem.
when he builds the school...cool
if he doesnt....cool
did i give him money? if not....then i dont need to worry about that. dreams happen, dreams can go ? . unless i know the ins and outs....i usually dont speak on that type thing.
if i did give him moeny....aye my ? ....where the school.
just saying....what is the investment in pointing this out about him?
Oprah built a school....is she an educator? or does it really matter to those who are benefiting from the school? i highly doubt he would be in there teaching...even if he was...hes trying something. anything.
yes, ..his logic is flawed. maybe he dreamt too big...maybe his mouth created a bill he needs to run out on.....but the ? is trying.
exposing his flaws are not going to teach him anything.....its going to deter others who are flawed.
i once heard a story about back in the day the AL-rukens i believe.....used to fed the kids in the hood and teach them ? .
good intentions, big dreams....but didnt work out -
You're not that type of person that can't bring solutions at all . You like confusion you bring in way too many variable for an solution and you inclusive you want to include anything. We have already been doing this and it's not the proper way to get thing done at all.
Race mixing isn't good for the group and causes confusion. Saying things like" she acting lightskin" "she thinks she pretty because she's light skin" "I got pretty hair" is from races mixing and it cause problems
Anti-mixing needs to stop and the way we stop that in our community is to look down on it because it causes problems that are not needed
I'm not sure how you figure I like confusion or that I bring in too many variable for a solution. Name a variable that I've created that wasn't already there. Mixed people and products of race mixing have been part of the black community since there was a black community in America. You can't accuse me of making something complicated just because I acknowledge it. I didn't make the problem. It's already there.
Past that, some of your stance isn't even factual. Africans were never all the same shade, so the potential for colorism once thrown into America was there with or without miscegenation. It's seen in the near and far east as well in places where race mixing isn't even an issue. So once again, you and others are basically making up ? in order to feed your narrative. And once again, I don't think race mixing is good for the community especially when it is born out of inferiority complexes. I just believe your reasoning is terrible. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Serious question for the Umar supporters. Do you really think there is a problem with people being skeptical about his plans for the school that haven't come to fruition yet? Granted I get you might have reasons for continued support, but do you really think it's wrong for people to want to grill him on this point?
Just for clarity. I am a supporter of Black Men and Women who take up the mantle of speaking on topics that affect Blacks while offering ideas and solutions on how to repair or strengthen Black communities.
Yes, there is a problem. 1. Most if not none of yall gave a dime. 2. You weren't going to send your child there any damn ways. 3. Yall just popping yall gums because you can.
Yes, for the reasons given above. In addition if, you aint got nothing good to say ? . Especially as it pertains to Black men and Women that aren't doing harm to the Black community.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »Serious question for the Umar supporters. Do you really think there is a problem with people being skeptical about his plans for the school that haven't come to fruition yet? Granted I get you might have reasons for continued support, but do you really think it's wrong for people to want to grill him on this point?
Unless you grill people you ? with the same way with their issues then no. -
jetlifebih wrote: »Do Jews date Germans?
Do sunni's date shi'ites?
Possiblyjetlifebih wrote: »
? y'all seen what happened to the montagues and capulets....? died over Romeo and Juliet....well at least in the Leonardo decaprio movie....
-
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Serious question for the Umar supporters. Do you really think there is a problem with people being skeptical about his plans for the school that haven't come to fruition yet? Granted I get you might have reasons for continued support, but do you really think it's wrong for people to want to grill him on this point?
Just for clarity. I am a supporter of Black Men and Women who take up the mantle of speaking on topics that affect Blacks while offering ideas and solutions on how to repair or strengthen Black communities.
Yes, there is a problem. 1. Most if not none of yall gave a dime. 2. You weren't going to send your child there any damn ways. 3. Yall just popping yall gums because you can.
Yes, for the reasons given above. In addition if, you aint got nothing good to say ? . Especially as it pertains to Black men and Women that aren't doing harm to the Black community.
So basically you don't believe in accountability? You believe a black man should be able to collect a bunch of money from other blacks for a cause and no one should be able to ask him about it or hold him accountable. How can you say he's not doing harm to the Black community if you're not willing to hold him accountable. People are accusing him of pimping the community by taking money from it with no intentions of following through. I'm not saying he's doing that and I don't know. I personally hope he's successful with this endeavor, but even as a supporter of him in this matter, it doesn't make sense to me to be mad at people who are asking questions relating to his legitimacy. That should be done for all people that are taking money from others, not just Umar.
Edit: I already know by how I phrased those first questions, you'll have a problem with it, so let me restate. Do you have a problem with people trying to hold him accountable and ensure that he's doing what he says he's doing?I dont disagree with this mans message yesterday, today and likely wont tomorrow.
That enough for me to ? wifh em.
People criticize Polight the same way to this day. I ? with him too.
I will always love and respect someone that teaches me. I learned a lot watching this brother and the things i didnt learn he at least stirred up my curiosity to go teach myself.
You still ? with Polight now that he's changed his mindset somewhat? -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Serious question for the Umar supporters. Do you really think there is a problem with people being skeptical about his plans for the school that haven't come to fruition yet? Granted I get you might have reasons for continued support, but do you really think it's wrong for people to want to grill him on this point?
If they have donated money. They have the right to ask those questions.
If they haven't donated they can feel skeptical and that is understandable
If they haven't donated no you shouldn't want to grill him about it. Who the ? are you to be asking that man about what he doing with other peoples money that you haven't contributed to?
So folks shouldn't care if dude could possibly be fuckn over the same people he claims he wants to help, cuz they themselves didn't donate?
