Roland Martin vs. Dr. Umar Johnson
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Umar is a charlatan.....
A lot of people don't care about his credentials and suggest that it doesn't matter....
However, it does matter, especially if you call yourself a Dr....The Root searched every level of Johnson’s education but could find no proof that he holds a doctorate in psychology. But what started off as simple educational research has turned into a mystery.
I do not think that Interracial marriage is a problem in black communities.....
To ? on the work of people in the struggle because their choice of mate is ridiculous.....
And it overshadows any good points that he may otherwise make....
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »So can we agree that there are three major viewpoints held by blacks in this matter?
1) Those that don't give a ? about the black community one way or other. Their commitment to black only extends as far as their family, friends, and others they have personal involvements with.
2) Those that care about the black community but see the goal for the community to be a subset of the overall American community that thrives as part of the society as a whole.
3) Those that believe that black community should be as self sufficient and separate from the rest of American society as possible and that that community should be built by blacks, maintained by blacks, and solely benefit blacks.
Is that a fair assessment, or is there more nuance that I'm missing?
You're missing plenty I'm sure.
4)Those that believe the black community should be self sufficient, control their economics, politics,schools, and spiritual base. That community should be built by blacks, maintained by blacks, and benefit blacks first. Then the hope would be other races get to see and respect a Black community in it's purest form. A community with heart, intellect, passion, rhythm, culture, hurt, damage, and complexities. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »I really didn't care for Umar at all before the Breakfast Club interview. That interview alone changed my perspective alone for the reasons you named. I want him to succeed with the school. I want people to take his successful model and run with it creating more black oriented schools. I want people within the system to use those models as proof that the current educational system is biased and force change so that even people who can't go to specialized schools will benefit from what Umar started.
The only reason I'm critical in this regard is that if he is scamming people, it will make it that much harder for someone else to put the idea into action. So I think it's good that there are people trying to hold him accountable and force him to be upfront and forthright with what he's doing. However, I agree with you guys that if people are just downing him and his vision because they are haters, they should shut up because this ? is important and necessary for our community.
I'm going out on a limb but I would think if Umar was getting more press for his school, community initiative and less press about his degrees, personal life, and views on interracial marriage and ? the school would be built already. People who have the resources to make Umar's ideas reality cannot just come out in public and support him. Lebron would lose sponsorship within 12 hours of standing or quoting Umar.
I hadn't really thought about it like that. I believe you're probably right. I think people could shut up about his degrees, but I don't think he'd ever get past those views on interracial marriage or ? . If I'm not mistaken discriminating against ? is going to be part of the school's mandate. You can correct me if I'm wrong, so you know the fallout associated with that is unavoidable.
The fallout would be real. I don't agree with it but that is the reality. I don't believe all girls or boys school are discriminate. So, having a school the doesn't accept those who subscribe to that particular lifestyle is similar. imo
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »So can we agree that there are three major viewpoints held by blacks in this matter?
1) Those that don't give a ? about the black community one way or other. Their commitment to black only extends as far as their family, friends, and others they have personal involvements with.
2) Those that care about the black community but see the goal for the community to be a subset of the overall American community that thrives as part of the society as a whole.
3) Those that believe that black community should be as self sufficient and separate from the rest of American society as possible and that that community should be built by blacks, maintained by blacks, and solely benefit blacks.
Is that a fair assessment, or is there more nuance that I'm missing?
You're missing plenty I'm sure.
4)Those that believe the black community should be self sufficient, control their economics, politics,schools, and spiritual base. That community should be built by blacks, maintained by blacks, and benefit blacks first. Then the hope would be other races get to see and respect a Black community in it's purest form. A community with heart, intellect, passion, rhythm, culture, hurt, damage, and complexities.
Removing the subjective language, which I'd agree is important, but isn't really exclusive to any particular view of the black community as a whole (i.e. My #2 and #3 could hope for the same thing). How does your suggestion differ from my #3. Would it be less isolationist than what I was suggesting?The Lonious Monk wrote: »I really didn't care for Umar at all before the Breakfast Club interview. That interview alone changed my perspective alone for the reasons you named. I want him to succeed with the school. I want people to take his successful model and run with it creating more black oriented schools. I want people within the system to use those models as proof that the current educational system is biased and force change so that even people who can't go to specialized schools will benefit from what Umar started.
The only reason I'm critical in this regard is that if he is scamming people, it will make it that much harder for someone else to put the idea into action. So I think it's good that there are people trying to hold him accountable and force him to be upfront and forthright with what he's doing. However, I agree with you guys that if people are just downing him and his vision because they are haters, they should shut up because this ? is important and necessary for our community.
I'm going out on a limb but I would think if Umar was getting more press for his school, community initiative and less press about his degrees, personal life, and views on interracial marriage and ? the school would be built already. People who have the resources to make Umar's ideas reality cannot just come out in public and support him. Lebron would lose sponsorship within 12 hours of standing or quoting Umar.
I hadn't really thought about it like that. I believe you're probably right. I think people could shut up about his degrees, but I don't think he'd ever get past those views on interracial marriage or ? . If I'm not mistaken discriminating against ? is going to be part of the school's mandate. You can correct me if I'm wrong, so you know the fallout associated with that is unavoidable.
The fallout would be real. I don't agree with it but that is the reality. I don't believe all girls or boys school are discriminate. So, having a school the doesn't accept those who subscribe to that particular lifestyle is similar. imo
Agreed, but unfortunately, we live in a society where ? seem to have increasingly more power than blacks. -
so... did you guys figure all this ? out yet?
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »So can we agree that there are three major viewpoints held by blacks in this matter?
1) Those that don't give a ? about the black community one way or other. Their commitment to black only extends as far as their family, friends, and others they have personal involvements with.
2) Those that care about the black community but see the goal for the community to be a subset of the overall American community that thrives as part of the society as a whole.
3) Those that believe that black community should be as self sufficient and separate from the rest of American society as possible and that that community should be built by blacks, maintained by blacks, and solely benefit blacks.
Is that a fair assessment, or is there more nuance that I'm missing?
You're missing plenty I'm sure.
4)Those that believe the black community should be self sufficient, control their economics, politics,schools, and spiritual base. That community should be built by blacks, maintained by blacks, and benefit blacks first. Then the hope would be other races get to see and respect a Black community in it's purest form. A community with heart, intellect, passion, rhythm, culture, hurt, damage, and complexities.
Removing the subjective language, which I'd agree is important, but isn't really exclusive to any particular view of the black community as a whole (i.e. My #2 and #3 could hope for the same thing). How does your suggestion differ from my #3. Would it be less isolationist than what I was suggesting?The Lonious Monk wrote: »I really didn't care for Umar at all before the Breakfast Club interview. That interview alone changed my perspective alone for the reasons you named. I want him to succeed with the school. I want people to take his successful model and run with it creating more black oriented schools. I want people within the system to use those models as proof that the current educational system is biased and force change so that even people who can't go to specialized schools will benefit from what Umar started.
The only reason I'm critical in this regard is that if he is scamming people, it will make it that much harder for someone else to put the idea into action. So I think it's good that there are people trying to hold him accountable and force him to be upfront and forthright with what he's doing. However, I agree with you guys that if people are just downing him and his vision because they are haters, they should shut up because this ? is important and necessary for our community.
I'm going out on a limb but I would think if Umar was getting more press for his school, community initiative and less press about his degrees, personal life, and views on interracial marriage and ? the school would be built already. People who have the resources to make Umar's ideas reality cannot just come out in public and support him. Lebron would lose sponsorship within 12 hours of standing or quoting Umar.
I hadn't really thought about it like that. I believe you're probably right. I think people could shut up about his degrees, but I don't think he'd ever get past those views on interracial marriage or ? . If I'm not mistaken discriminating against ? is going to be part of the school's mandate. You can correct me if I'm wrong, so you know the fallout associated with that is unavoidable.
The fallout would be real. I don't agree with it but that is the reality. I don't believe all girls or boys school are discriminate. So, having a school the doesn't accept those who subscribe to that particular lifestyle is similar. imo
Agreed, but unfortunately, we live in a society where ? seem to have increasingly more power than blacks.
Yes. Less isolationist. The idea isn't to mimic white sun down towns, or racist HOA.
We would want other races doing business with us, and even living among us. As long as they respect our culture and are aligned with us economically, and politically. -
semi-auto-mato wrote: »If this same rhetoric was said by your local CAC scholar that white should date whites only. 99% of you nignogs would be in a uproar. That CAC would be a racist and blah blah blah.
Flip the script, Umar comes thru and say what he say. Nignogs is down with it and power to the people.
Now which is it oochie wally or one mic?
I agree with Umar on uplifting black women and building a strong family BUT you love whom you love. It doesn't take away from the fight for justice because whom you're ? is not the same color. Its mad ? who married to a sister and doing more harm to our people than someone married to a CAC
Let's flip the script. Cacs should marry cacs.. So, where's your 99% coming from again?
It's for another thread but only weak ? ride with idea you love who love.
man it seems like its only a few of us that feel like the bolded. it amazes me how many times I get flagged when I say I am against interracial dating. black dudes flagging me because I believe we should marry black women. I will never understand the you love who love stuff. my idea of beauty is black. I wouldn't ever consider dating or marrying anything else but a black woman. I'm also tired of these weak ? excuses. Black women are stubborn or to outspoken or drama queens. ? need to step up
I can't even say I am against it. I just know that it looks crazy weird to say you're for Black unity, family, etc and are toting a polar bear on your arm.
Even beyond the beauty of the Black Women. It's their resilience, and resolve. I promise you I told my wife today you're the best decision I have made in life.
i just told mine shes the best thing to every happen to me......but ya get on my ? 'n reserve nerves sometimes. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »So can we agree that there are three major viewpoints held by blacks in this matter?
1) Those that don't give a ? about the black community one way or other. Their commitment to black only extends as far as their family, friends, and others they have personal involvements with.
2) Those that care about the black community but see the goal for the community to be a subset of the overall American community that thrives as part of the society as a whole.
3) Those that believe that black community should be as self sufficient and separate from the rest of American society as possible and that that community should be built by blacks, maintained by blacks, and solely benefit blacks.
Is that a fair assessment, or is there more nuance that I'm missing?
You're missing plenty I'm sure.
4)Those that believe the black community should be self sufficient, control their economics, politics,schools, and spiritual base. That community should be built by blacks, maintained by blacks, and benefit blacks first. Then the hope would be other races get to see and respect a Black community in it's purest form. A community with heart, intellect, passion, rhythm, culture, hurt, damage, and complexities.
Removing the subjective language, which I'd agree is important, but isn't really exclusive to any particular view of the black community as a whole (i.e. My #2 and #3 could hope for the same thing). How does your suggestion differ from my #3. Would it be less isolationist than what I was suggesting?The Lonious Monk wrote: »I really didn't care for Umar at all before the Breakfast Club interview. That interview alone changed my perspective alone for the reasons you named. I want him to succeed with the school. I want people to take his successful model and run with it creating more black oriented schools. I want people within the system to use those models as proof that the current educational system is biased and force change so that even people who can't go to specialized schools will benefit from what Umar started.
The only reason I'm critical in this regard is that if he is scamming people, it will make it that much harder for someone else to put the idea into action. So I think it's good that there are people trying to hold him accountable and force him to be upfront and forthright with what he's doing. However, I agree with you guys that if people are just downing him and his vision because they are haters, they should shut up because this ? is important and necessary for our community.
I'm going out on a limb but I would think if Umar was getting more press for his school, community initiative and less press about his degrees, personal life, and views on interracial marriage and ? the school would be built already. People who have the resources to make Umar's ideas reality cannot just come out in public and support him. Lebron would lose sponsorship within 12 hours of standing or quoting Umar.
I hadn't really thought about it like that. I believe you're probably right. I think people could shut up about his degrees, but I don't think he'd ever get past those views on interracial marriage or ? . If I'm not mistaken discriminating against ? is going to be part of the school's mandate. You can correct me if I'm wrong, so you know the fallout associated with that is unavoidable.
The fallout would be real. I don't agree with it but that is the reality. I don't believe all girls or boys school are discriminate. So, having a school the doesn't accept those who subscribe to that particular lifestyle is similar. imo
Agreed, but unfortunately, we live in a society where ? seem to have increasingly more power than blacks.
Yes. Less isolationist. The idea isn't to mimic white sun down towns, or racist HOA.
We would want other races doing business with us, and even living among us. As long as they respect our culture and are aligned with us economically, and politically.
Ok, that's legit. You're probably right then. There probably is more nuance out there. I thought it was more cut and dry than that. I guess that's why it's so hard to get a large percentage of our people on the same accord. -
so... did you guys figure all this ? out yet?
? think you can be pro black in a ir lolololololololol -
soul rattler wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »I'm just making notes of this dude on the show, and what jumps out:
First off - You mean to tell me that guys like Harry Bellafonte, Richard Pryor, Quincy Jones, and Sidney Poiter get no respect because they have non-black wives, even though they broke barriers in the entertainment industry while maintaining their black ancestry? FOH, Umar.
2nd - Him calling dude a ? was petty and childish as a muhfuck. "He called me a liar." Stop acting like a ? , Umar.
Umar does have a point about white folks not doing much to anything at all about the systematic setup of white privilege.
This dude is hit or miss. He makes great points, but he goes full Hotep too many times for my taste.
why does it matter if hes hit or miss if hes in the game trying to win for us?
this is one of my biggest gripes.
US black people dont need singular leaders but we will attack those who take charge when so many others stand back or stand around.
since we are so diverse...we need people in all areas to be as great as they can be. then you take those people create a group that can speak to everyone.
just because 1 person will never be right 100% and we are not a unit...even tho alot of times on this site it is said but then contradicted. but thats another thing.
mlk was 100
malcolm wasnt 100
? gregory aint 100 hhmph
no one is...can we stop pointing that out
as if ? and white people wont do that already.
an yes, i woulda called dude a ? too.....how you gonna call a grown man a liar when hes respecting you? chicks and ? ? do that ? . ? might say you lying,,,but "liar" is for ? .
the man already tense for having to answer for his degrees...thats fukked up.
hes tense to defend his point.
all can be understood and he handled himself good..even calling the guy a ? .
none of yall woulda took that ? in that situation all well and good. stop it
It matters when you claim to be an educator and knowledgable about the ? you're talking about. You can't just be spouting off any ol ? under the guise of "I'm doing it for us". Just giving a free pass to say anything under that logic is dumb. People need to be checked when they are wrong. That's what actually helps...not just letting everything slide
heres where me and alot of people differ.
i take what i need from anyone to build on and leave the rest if its no use to me.
why use energy to prove what you know is wrong?
do i give him a pass....dont really care either way....but we need to go after everyone with the same energy.
i will attack like i defend....here its not really needed.
do i agree with everything....nope
who does anything without thinking they getting something back?
Because a person in a position of power operating based on false information is a danger to themselves and others.
But I have not seen anyone cite Umar's false information. It's all hyperbole and opinion. Umar has been speaking for years now and for people to keep bringing up the same lame argument about credentials and ancestry is, nothing but a diversionary tactic to not deal with Umar's observations, analysis, solutions, and opinions.
So, for people to keep parroting the same things whenever Umar is mentioned says more about them then Umar.
Its not diversionary because those things are what he uses to seem himself as credible. If the foundation of what hes using is faulty you cant blame people for questioning it
You pulled that out of thin air. When has Umar said, that his credentials validate his ideas, and opinions. I think his message is validation enough. Which, neither you or anyone else has been able to successfully articulate how Umar's message harms Black Folks. But yall keep right on with the trivial diversions.
The ? is trying to start a school and bills himself as "Dr"...that is using his credentials to promote and validate what he's saying...and I already made a post with some things he says that I take issue with -
2stepz_ahead wrote: »Maybe the ? wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...? really try and defend him by just brushing over that ? . The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?
@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no ? ...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.
because......the message always gets lost
case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own ? ...but it not about the ? you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....
one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.
if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.
everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.
do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.
I'm all for allowing people to make mistakes. That's how you learn. What you seem to be against though is calling people out and correcting them for making mistakes. That leads to nowhere but repeating the same mistakes. The message doesn't get lost because someone is imperfect. The message gets lost when that person can't acknowledge or is constantly given a pass for their mistakes and never learning from them. That's what you constantly seem to miss. And no every little thing shouldn't be called out but when someone who not only bills themselves as an educator but also wants to start a school has some funny ? on their own educational resume what sense would it make to just brush over that like its a small thing?
So, stop making the mistake of bringing up lame and trivial points that Umar has addressed year in and year out.
He cant even address where the money he collected went and last time he got called out on it started making memes about the person who asked him...this dude is not all y'all think he is. ? too easily drawn in by a "? the white man" stance. Just as gullible as the church folks you criticize -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »Maybe the ? wouldn't be so tense defending his degree if he could prove he actually had a doctorate...? really try and defend him by just brushing over that ? . The man is trying to start a school and ya'll just want to skip over all evidence that has been found pointing to him lying about his level of education?
@2stepz_ahead Everytime the topic of calling someone out for being wrong you go back to the same retort of "Well who is right all fo the time" or "Why does someone have to be perfect in order for you to listen"...Do you not get that perfection isnt' the goal but being accurate is? You stay giving people passes for talking nonsense solely based on "Well, ain't nobody perfect"...no ? ...but it ain't a bad thing to get corrected when you're wrong. Especially when you're in certain positions it's definitely to your benefit.
because......the message always gets lost
case and point...alof are mentally fukked up on the grand scheme. they have to correct themselves. the have to listen and learn from others. others that will their own ? ...but it not about the ? you can find on them but taking the message they was trying to give without saying you can not tell me because....
one of my mentors was a alcoholic.....that didnt mean he couldnt teach me about business. i learned alot. he spoke about why he drinks like he does. it was none of my business . so that shouldnt stop the message but i could offer advice about alcoholism that i learned from family members.
if you cant allow mistakes from others....you are assuming you are perfect and can teach.
everything dont need to be called out when the problem is much bigger than the person.
do i really need marriage advice from him? no..thats not im there for. if he has a problem respecting me for who i married....thats on him. im not going to prove to him who i fukk wont stop my work because my work wont stop.
I feel you, but if you claim to be a leader and you do things that break potential unity that makes you bad for the movement.
Now maybe in his movement he only wants black people that follow the same rules he does. Then he can't say he's for the upliftment of black people like he says. He has to restrict that to being for the upliftment of Pan Africans and other like minded individuals.
how does he break unity?
just curious
He flat out says that people who make certain personal associations outside of the community (e.g. interracial marriages) are not respectable (at least in his eyes) and their efforts don't really amount to much. So that's a segment of the community that he probably won't work with and probably won't work with him. He says that he doesn't hold anything against the product of certain relationships, so he'll work with mixed people. But how many mixed people will work with him knowing his feelings toward their parents? It's unnecessary dissension.
ya know....
if black people were easy to build with....we would have already done it.
he is a part of a bigger problem like i said earlier.
brown eyes people look at green eyes a certain way
dark ? look at light ? a certain way
africans look at african americans a certain way
african americans look at everyone a certain way.
hood ? look at suburban ? a certain way.
but he the one being divisive?
we dont have enough fingers to point at everyone......so this one will be ok for now until the next ? comes along
I'm not blaming him for the division in our community. It runs far deeper than any one person. I'm only talking about his actions and words. Again, if lack of unity is our problem, why would you do or say anything to cause further schisms? Don't get me wrong, I do understand his point and why he is against miscegenation. I just don't think its beneficial to take such a hard lines stance against people who've done it. Especially when it comes along with sweeping generalizations that honestly probably don't apply that much these days. Umar basically said he believes a black men marry white women because they believe white is superior and that it will upgrade them. That was probably true years ago. Nowadays, I doubt most interracial dating occurs because of that. The only two dudes I know that really have gone down that route did it because they said that white women were easier. I don't think that's a very flattering perspective for whites. There is also convenience. Sometimes black people wind up in places where there aren't many black people. That's pretty easy when you only make up 13% of the population and you're mostly grouped in specific areas. There are a variety of reasons people intermarry, so generalizations like that and principles based on such generalizations are weak.
Umar spoke much deep on the subject. In fact he even mentioned how love is a western construct. And how people can control whom they love and ultimately end up marrying. He spoke to how Black Men are making the conscious effort to marry white if and when they do. You are purposely misquoting and loosely interpreting what Umar has said.
And you believe that ? ...what proof did he provide? -
soul rattler wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Umar, and folks like him, have spent decades giving the message that your favorite rapper is just now starting to put in their music.
Why is one able to make millions off it, but the other is reduced to a "? "? Theyre both giving the same message.
Whose favorite rapper? Hip Hop has always been littered with knowledge for the betterment of our people.
I wasnt trying to imply Hip Hop culture never had knowledge. So I repeat, why does your favorite rapper get props for kicking knowledge, but a fella like Umar doesnt?
Serious question, cause i have no reason to believe yall would of treated X any different. Reflects poorly on the shoe it fits, but id at least hope such a person was consistent with it.
The cache that Umar's name has speaks to the acclaim that his words have garnered. Just because some people don't acknowledge him doesn't mean he's not being acknowledged.
Umar definitely needs to exercise more self-control. His message is on point most of the time but he doesn't respond to negative criticism well. Like, at all. One "liar" and he's ready to go back and forth name calling. I look to Malcolm X, who never stooped to the level of his detractors. His poise alone made racists and uncle Toms look foolish.
If that's your only gripe, you're not who my original question was aimed at. I'm trying to hear from the ? that cut these conscious cat's at the knee's.
Like hearing that pro-black ? makes them go, "He's pimping the black community".
I'm like with what? Knowledge, game, facts. Like a book? Like these ? enjoy getting FBI visits, death threats, and risking they livelihood. They compare the conscious to preachers, preachers ain't gotta worry bout being targeted. The money is in cooning, so what sense does it make for them to not go where the money is? What sense does it make to stand up and risk getting shot, for teaching powerless negroes, if one wanted to ? black folks? It makes none, which is why I don't believe that surface ? when ? make that claim.
A good number of these ? ain't giving facts...theyre giving their opinion. I saw a video of one of these conscious dudes talking about women having a menstrual cycle is unnatural and that changing your diet to a non European diet would eliminate it....really my ? ? These the folks you want to prop up?
Im propping up no one here, just trying give some understanding. Now the IC was more than willing to separate that black lady cop that was killed from all the crooked cops we hear bout, even while knowing nothing of her conduct on the job. It should be no problem to separate a ? talking nonsense from the ? talking with sense. Its what you should do.
And if someone is talking crazy PROVING them wrong should take priority. A conscious person worth their salt doesnt want you to just take their word, they welcome you to do your own research. So argue the information before the messenger. Use evidence, not ego. Cant be dismissing, or accepting, information simply cause it makes you feel a certain way. Unfortunately, i beleive thats what the majority of yall do on here.
Accepting information because it makes you feel a certain way is exactly what people like Umar thrive on. People accepting what they're saying because it connects to an anger and frustration we all feel as black people in this country. They play on that. You can argue both the information and the messenger as both are equally important. You asked "what are they pimping the black community with" and say you don't get the criticism...then talk about separating the people actually speaking truthfully vs those just speaking ? . The ? speaking ? is exactly who the criticism is aimed at.
I never had a problem with blacks thriving off blacks, long as theyre doing good business. Im not a person that believes ? should be saved for free.
But i dont care about yall calling out the ? . The problem is that yall are appearing to put everyone on the ? list, and that isnt always the case. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Serious question for the Umar supporters. Do you really think there is a problem with people being skeptical about his plans for the school that haven't come to fruition yet? Granted I get you might have reasons for continued support, but do you really think it's wrong for people to want to grill him on this point?
Just for clarity. I am a supporter of Black Men and Women who take up the mantle of speaking on topics that affect Blacks while offering ideas and solutions on how to repair or strengthen Black communities.
Yes, there is a problem. 1. Most if not none of yall gave a dime. 2. You weren't going to send your child there any damn ways. 3. Yall just popping yall gums because you can.
Yes, for the reasons given above. In addition if, you aint got nothing good to say ? . Especially as it pertains to Black men and Women that aren't doing harm to the Black community.
So basically you don't believe in accountability? You believe a black man should be able to collect a bunch of money from other blacks for a cause and no one should be able to ask him about it or hold him accountable. How can you say he's not doing harm to the Black community if you're not willing to hold him accountable. People are accusing him of pimping the community by taking money from it with no intentions of following through. I'm not saying he's doing that and I don't know. I personally hope he's successful with this endeavor, but even as a supporter of him in this matter, it doesn't make sense to me to be mad at people who are asking questions relating to his legitimacy. That should be done for all people that are taking money from others, not just Umar.I dont disagree with this mans message yesterday, today and likely wont tomorrow.
That enough for me to ? wifh em.
People criticize Polight the same way to this day. I ? with him too.
I will always love and respect someone that teaches me. I learned a lot watching this brother and the things i didnt learn he at least stirred up my curiosity to go teach myself.
You still ? with Polight now that he's changed his mindset somewhat?
Any of those people who asking questions but didn't donate need to shut the ? up. Plain and simple.
You talk like the initial funding is all he'll ever need. Even if he's successful getting the school up, he's going to need outside funding. All schools do. So what's wrong with people holding back on contributing and waiting to see what becomes of it before going all in. What world do you live in where people hear an idea and throw money at it without any evaluation? That's unwise.
Now if you're talking about people who just don't care about the school at all and are bashing for the sake of bashing, then get you. I'm just trying to understand why anyone would have a problem with people trying to assess the validity of claims. To me that seems like a common sense effort that anyone interested in something would do.
I ain't talking like ? . I was very direct with what I said. If you ain't donate then shut the ? up cause you haven't lost one ? penny so you should have nothing to say about what that man did or didn't do with SOMEONE else money.
Who ever said anything was wrong with holding back contributions? Post that cause I haven't said it and I haven't seen anybody else in here say that.
Trying to ? something and asking questions in an accusatory tone and manner about what was done with some donation money that you never even donated to makes that person a sucka and a hater.
Most of the people asking questions about that money that has been donated so far are asking in a manner and tone that says they feel Umar has stolen that money. If I was him I wouldn't answer anybody who is questioning me in that manner or hasn't donated.
? I look answering the questions of someone who is accusing me of stealing or someone asking what I've done with some other peoples money. What that man has done with someone else's money ain't your ? business.
Y'all ? are hostile as he'll for no reason, but I feel you. I don't agree with because there are valid reasons for you to be a watchdog even if you don't have a personal stake. Still, if ? are just attacking him and not coming from a productive standpoint then their opinions are invalid.
I just cuss when I talk not hostile, this not personal for me. Only time I actually watch how much I cuss is around little kids, my granny & mother.
I don't have an issue with a person being a watchdog either. It's just that you can see and feel that some of the people questioning him want him to fail at building that school or want to him to have done something ? up with that money. It just feels like some are dreaming, hoping and wishing for that "I told you he was a fraud" moment. If he is a fraud than let it happen but to push for it and sow those seeds in other folks mind is just wrong IMO.
If a person is digging his idea for the school but uncomfortable with his reaction to some people questions regarding the money and want to hold off on donating. I have absolutely no problem with that. Its a sound move. But I do have a problem with those who haven't donated talking ? and attacking him though.
I don't why these simple ideas allude folks. These are my sentiments as well.
I will also add that. I personally don't care whether or not Umar builds the school. If, he does I will do my best to support his efforts. I just know from the first time I saw Umar in an interview speaking on the education system and the systematic racism, drugging, and bias that our Young Black boys and Girls face on a daily I wanted to hear more. Seeing my son and other Black boys who come from two parent, middle and upper class homes forced into boxes that suppress their warrior spirit and freedom of expression to be unapologetically Black, I identified with his analysis. So, for me his message is sound as I not only have lived, but have seen throughout my past and present travels what Umar speaks about.
So if he doesn't build the school and doesnt use the money he's collected for building the school but instead just keeps it you see nothing wrong with that? That's the same as th3 church never ending "building fund" collected every Sunday while don't ? in the church ever get fixed. -
soul rattler wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »Umar, and folks like him, have spent decades giving the message that your favorite rapper is just now starting to put in their music.
Why is one able to make millions off it, but the other is reduced to a "? "? Theyre both giving the same message.
Whose favorite rapper? Hip Hop has always been littered with knowledge for the betterment of our people.
I wasnt trying to imply Hip Hop culture never had knowledge. So I repeat, why does your favorite rapper get props for kicking knowledge, but a fella like Umar doesnt?
Serious question, cause i have no reason to believe yall would of treated X any different. Reflects poorly on the shoe it fits, but id at least hope such a person was consistent with it.
The cache that Umar's name has speaks to the acclaim that his words have garnered. Just because some people don't acknowledge him doesn't mean he's not being acknowledged.
Umar definitely needs to exercise more self-control. His message is on point most of the time but he doesn't respond to negative criticism well. Like, at all. One "liar" and he's ready to go back and forth name calling. I look to Malcolm X, who never stooped to the level of his detractors. His poise alone made racists and uncle Toms look foolish.
If that's your only gripe, you're not who my original question was aimed at. I'm trying to hear from the ? that cut these conscious cat's at the knee's.
Like hearing that pro-black ? makes them go, "He's pimping the black community".
I'm like with what? Knowledge, game, facts. Like a book? Like these ? enjoy getting FBI visits, death threats, and risking they livelihood. They compare the conscious to preachers, preachers ain't gotta worry bout being targeted. The money is in cooning, so what sense does it make for them to not go where the money is? What sense does it make to stand up and risk getting shot, for teaching powerless negroes, if one wanted to ? black folks? It makes none, which is why I don't believe that surface ? when ? make that claim.
A good number of these ? ain't giving facts...theyre giving their opinion. I saw a video of one of these conscious dudes talking about women having a menstrual cycle is unnatural and that changing your diet to a non European diet would eliminate it....really my ? ? These the folks you want to prop up?
Im propping up no one here, just trying give some understanding. Now the IC was more than willing to separate that black lady cop that was killed from all the crooked cops we hear bout, even while knowing nothing of her conduct on the job. It should be no problem to separate a ? talking nonsense from the ? talking with sense. Its what you should do.
And if someone is talking crazy PROVING them wrong should take priority. A conscious person worth their salt doesnt want you to just take their word, they welcome you to do your own research. So argue the information before the messenger. Use evidence, not ego. Cant be dismissing, or accepting, information simply cause it makes you feel a certain way. Unfortunately, i beleive thats what the majority of yall do on here.
Accepting information because it makes you feel a certain way is exactly what people like Umar thrive on. People accepting what they're saying because it connects to an anger and frustration we all feel as black people in this country. They play on that. You can argue both the information and the messenger as both are equally important. You asked "what are they pimping the black community with" and say you don't get the criticism...then talk about separating the people actually speaking truthfully vs those just speaking ? . The ? speaking ? is exactly who the criticism is aimed at.
I never had a problem with blacks thriving off blacks, long as theyre doing good business. Im not a person that believes ? should be saved for free.
But i dont care about yall calling out the ? . The problem is that yall are appearing to put everyone on the ? list, and that isnt always the case.
I don't put everyone on the ? list. I want black folks to succeed. One of my favorite stories every year since he started is seeing Jalen Rose talk about the school he started and built. Just this year Ballou HS in DC had the highest number of seniors ever accepted to college. If anyone knows or grew up in DC or PG then you know how huge of an accomplishment that is. I love seeing stories about black folks doing well in black institutions supported by the black community. I'm just not the type to blindly accept someone saying something because they hit certain talking points. I don't disagree with everythijg Umar says but the reaction to anything he does being questioned is crazy. As if he's above being asked to actually prove what he's doing -
Umar got a lot of liberal cacs in their feelings...a bunch of ppl i know who married interracially been hitting me up fuming lmao
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Elzo69Renaissance wrote: »Umar got a lot of liberal cacs in their feelings...a bunch of ppl i know who married interracially been hitting me up fuming lmao
He got these liberal ? in their feelings too -
From a black writer
Who is Dr. Umar Johnson?
I have no idea.
But aren’t you writing this article?
I have never seen evidence for the existence of Dr. Umar Johnson. Jermaine Shoemake is the self-proclaimed “Prince of Pan-Africanism” who goes by that name. A blood relative of Frederick Douglass, he is a school psychologist who travels the country lecturing on the education of black boys, African culture and the need for African-centered education. He donates most of his time to raising money so that he can open a school for black boys.
That sounds incredible!
Indeed it does, except that none of the ? in that previous paragraph is true.
Wait ... what?
For starters, no one has been able to find any evidence that Jermaine Shoemake (or Umar—the name he gave himself) has a doctoral degree. Either he is lying about his Ph.D. in psychology, or he matriculated at the same educational institution as Dr. Dre, Dr. J and Nasir Jones, who achieved his advanced degree in 1999 and proudly proclaimed himself “Dr. Knockboot.”
Why would Frederick Douglass’ grandnephew do this?
Because that was a lie, too. While it is impossible to confirm that no Douglass blood flows through Shoemake’s veins, in 2016 the descendants of Douglass issued a statement:
The family of Frederick Douglass has received numerous inquiries about Umar Johnson questioning his relationship to Frederick Douglass. There have also been questions about the legitimacy of his PhD and handling of the donations he’s received for a school he is promoting. We can tell you with 100% certainty that he is not a descendant of Frederick Douglass.
With that being said, Mr. Johnson is very careful not to bill himself as a “descendant”, but he doesn’t correct people when they refer to him in this way.
Man, that is disappointing. It’s sad that he had to create a false history to build a school for black boys, because ... wait. Why are you looking at me like that? Are you about to tell me that the school is ? , too?
No, I’m not.
OK, I’m kidding. The school is ? , too. After historically black St. Paul’s College closed its doors in 2014, Shoemake began a campaign to raise money to buy the property with the purpose of opening a school for black boys. People donated what is estimated to be at least $100,000 to bring this dream to fruition, but no one has seen a school. No one has seen a business plan for a school. No certifying educational organization has seen an application. No one knows what happened to the money.
On his recent appearance on The Breakfast Club, he told Charlamagne that he recently saw some land in South Carolina, but quickly told tha ? that he’d talk about it “off air.”
What happened in The Breakfast Club interview?
Like always, Shoemake made a lot of salient points about interracial marriage, economic empowerment and racism. But like the huckster he is, he sullied his message with dubious claims, nonfacts and flat-out lies.
Like what?
Like when he said Chinese is now an official language of South Africa (It isn’t);
Or when he explained how black men marry out of their race more than all other races combined (they don’t);
Or when he talked about his six degrees (maybe he was talking about his thermostat);
Or when he explained how “Buddha” is translated as “the black face” (also untrue);
Or when he talked about how Frederick Douglass marred his legacy by marrying a white woman, beginning the sentence with, “Take my ancestor Frederick Douglass”—a clever sleight of hand that averted the term “descendant.”
So why do people listen to him?
Because, like the story of the angels who followed Satan to Earth when he told them how beautiful their voices sounded, Johnson is charismatic, charming and flattering. No one ever tells black people how beautiful their voices are, so many people are eager to join Johnson’s choir.
The worst part about charlatans like him is that black people’s voices are beautiful, and it is an indictment of America that a snake-oil salesman can sweet-talk so many people into believing whatever he says. There are people who take his words as fact. Right now, in a barbershop somewhere in America, someone is explaining that Buddha’s last name was Jenkins, and how General Tso was a South African leader of the apartheid movement.
No one would be mad at Johnson if he stood in front of audiences and simply said, “This is what I believe.” His opinions are valid, and many of them reflect the thoughts of the black community as a whole. But he undercuts himself by building his house on a bed of lies.
And he steals.
That’s why he is dangerous. Hypothetically, it would be cool as ? to hang out with Dracula if all he wanted to do was stay out all night and sleep all day. I’d love to have a homeboy thousands of years old who knows how to talk women into letting him come over to their place. Plus, I’ve always wanted to wear a cape, and it wouldn’t look so out of place if I hung out with an entire crew of cape wearers who weren’t doing superhero cosplay.
But, like all vampires, what Dr. Umar Jermaine Shoemake Johnson really wants is to suck the blood out of the black community. He is a con man who rains slick-mouthed compliments down on angels so that he can befriend the black community and suck them dry. Even though it makes our people feel empowered, it is ultimately the worst kind of evil. -
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so... did you guys figure all this ? out yet?
Yes. Dr. Umar may / may not be a real doctor. He may / may not be a direct descendant of Frederick Douglas, although he can list an extensive amount of Grandma's along the ancestrial tree. He also may / may not be building the school in 2018. Graduates of the school's degrees may / may not be recognized.
Also if you didn't donate to the school, you have no right to question any of this.
Side note: Roland and his entire panel are ? . -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Serious question for the Umar supporters. Do you really think there is a problem with people being skeptical about his plans for the school that haven't come to fruition yet? Granted I get you might have reasons for continued support, but do you really think it's wrong for people to want to grill him on this point?
Just for clarity. I am a supporter of Black Men and Women who take up the mantle of speaking on topics that affect Blacks while offering ideas and solutions on how to repair or strengthen Black communities.
Yes, there is a problem. 1. Most if not none of yall gave a dime. 2. You weren't going to send your child there any damn ways. 3. Yall just popping yall gums because you can.
Yes, for the reasons given above. In addition if, you aint got nothing good to say ? . Especially as it pertains to Black men and Women that aren't doing harm to the Black community.
So basically you don't believe in accountability? You believe a black man should be able to collect a bunch of money from other blacks for a cause and no one should be able to ask him about it or hold him accountable. How can you say he's not doing harm to the Black community if you're not willing to hold him accountable. People are accusing him of pimping the community by taking money from it with no intentions of following through. I'm not saying he's doing that and I don't know. I personally hope he's successful with this endeavor, but even as a supporter of him in this matter, it doesn't make sense to me to be mad at people who are asking questions relating to his legitimacy. That should be done for all people that are taking money from others, not just Umar.I dont disagree with this mans message yesterday, today and likely wont tomorrow.
That enough for me to ? wifh em.
People criticize Polight the same way to this day. I ? with him too.
I will always love and respect someone that teaches me. I learned a lot watching this brother and the things i didnt learn he at least stirred up my curiosity to go teach myself.
You still ? with Polight now that he's changed his mindset somewhat?
Any of those people who asking questions but didn't donate need to shut the ? up. Plain and simple.
You talk like the initial funding is all he'll ever need. Even if he's successful getting the school up, he's going to need outside funding. All schools do. So what's wrong with people holding back on contributing and waiting to see what becomes of it before going all in. What world do you live in where people hear an idea and throw money at it without any evaluation? That's unwise.
Now if you're talking about people who just don't care about the school at all and are bashing for the sake of bashing, then get you. I'm just trying to understand why anyone would have a problem with people trying to assess the validity of claims. To me that seems like a common sense effort that anyone interested in something would do.
I ain't talking like ? . I was very direct with what I said. If you ain't donate then shut the ? up cause you haven't lost one ? penny so you should have nothing to say about what that man did or didn't do with SOMEONE else money.
Who ever said anything was wrong with holding back contributions? Post that cause I haven't said it and I haven't seen anybody else in here say that.
Trying to ? something and asking questions in an accusatory tone and manner about what was done with some donation money that you never even donated to makes that person a sucka and a hater.
Most of the people asking questions about that money that has been donated so far are asking in a manner and tone that says they feel Umar has stolen that money. If I was him I wouldn't answer anybody who is questioning me in that manner or hasn't donated.
? I look answering the questions of someone who is accusing me of stealing or someone asking what I've done with some other peoples money. What that man has done with someone else's money ain't your ? business.
Y'all ? are hostile as he'll for no reason, but I feel you. I don't agree with because there are valid reasons for you to be a watchdog even if you don't have a personal stake. Still, if ? are just attacking him and not coming from a productive standpoint then their opinions are invalid.
I just cuss when I talk not hostile, this not personal for me. Only time I actually watch how much I cuss is around little kids, my granny & mother.
I don't have an issue with a person being a watchdog either. It's just that you can see and feel that some of the people questioning him want him to fail at building that school or want to him to have done something ? up with that money. It just feels like some are dreaming, hoping and wishing for that "I told you he was a fraud" moment. If he is a fraud than let it happen but to push for it and sow those seeds in other folks mind is just wrong IMO.
If a person is digging his idea for the school but uncomfortable with his reaction to some people questions regarding the money and want to hold off on donating. I have absolutely no problem with that. Its a sound move. But I do have a problem with those who haven't donated talking ? and attacking him though.
I don't why these simple ideas allude folks. These are my sentiments as well.
I will also add that. I personally don't care whether or not Umar builds the school. If, he does I will do my best to support his efforts. I just know from the first time I saw Umar in an interview speaking on the education system and the systematic racism, drugging, and bias that our Young Black boys and Girls face on a daily I wanted to hear more. Seeing my son and other Black boys who come from two parent, middle and upper class homes forced into boxes that suppress their warrior spirit and freedom of expression to be unapologetically Black, I identified with his analysis. So, for me his message is sound as I not only have lived, but have seen throughout my past and present travels what Umar speaks about.
So if he doesn't build the school and doesnt use the money he's collected for building the school but instead just keeps it you see nothing wrong with that? That's the same as th3 church never ending "building fund" collected every Sunday while don't ? in the church ever get fixed.
i talked about this once..
they got people in the church volunteering for the church to do things.....
so where the building fund go? all the maintenance is free. -
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@Max, can we get a link to that editorial?
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THE ROOT ISNT OWNED BY BLACKS THOUGH SMH CANT TRUST THEMUmar is a charlatan.....
A lot of people don't care about his credentials and suggest that it doesn't matter....
However, it does matter, especially if you call yourself a Dr....The Root searched every level of Johnson’s education but could find no proof that he holds a doctorate in psychology. But what started off as simple educational research has turned into a mystery.
I do not think that Interracial marriage is a problem in black communities.....
To ? on the work of people in the struggle because their choice of mate is ridiculous.....
And it overshadows any good points that he may otherwise make....
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https://youtu.be/H-fqoeSoQxQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaFGctYmMqg
