Is hov officially the GROAT?
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YesAll things being considered, at this point I honestly have a hard time understanding how anyone could have a serious argument for anyone BUT Jay.
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No50 don't have a diamond album..get rich or die trying haven't reach 9 mill yet...
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NoKneeGro_DuperMan wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »i jus wanna know what rapper has done more in and for hiphop than JayZ..
since we talkin about GREAT..
and im not askin who's better.. cause Jay aint even my favorite rapper..
Eminem.
Which is why your numbers / popularity arguments are weak.
Em dont have the impact of a Jay-z.
You're right: Eminem had more impact.
He kinda has a point....especially talking numbers and sales and ? . Him & 50 have Diamond selling albums. Jay don't have that
Plus eminem was the first rapper to really do a successful major movie. He got his Oscar before three-six.
He's got the most awards. Most sales. Might be one of the most protested and controversial. Stan has become a dictionary recognized term. Ether did, too. I don't think Jay has created any slang that transcended rap, though. Maybe I'm wrong.
He hasn't done it all, and there are some things people have surpassed him in. Going by just the numbers leads us to weird conclusions, like eminem being the goat. -
No270crownst wrote: »50 don't have a diamond album..get rich or die trying haven't reach 9 mill yet...
That's in the states....if you count worldwide, 50 went diamond twice -
NoBe a rapper like Jay or be a business man like Jay? Because honestly, I'd tell my son to be Scarface or Nas before any other rapper.
This. ? . Here. -
Yesmryounggun wrote: »All things being considered, at this point I honestly have a hard time understanding how anyone could have a serious argument for anyone BUT Jay.
Thats the problem, ? aint doing this.. too much bias being posted -
Nopower_wisdom wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »What you keep failing to realize is this ain't sum make believe situation where we don't know who is on who's level we've SEEN Big and Jay perform together and have seen they are equals at worse so to sit here and try and compare songs we can do that all day but bottom line is they've rapped together so to ignore them rapping together and try and go verse for verse song for song or album for album is dumb..... They've been in the booth together multiple times and came out fairly even add that to the fact that Jay has matched him in any aspect of rapping you wanna bring up and he has every right to the claim of GROAT as Big if not more of a claim becuz he's done it at a high level longer
Jay not as good of a storyteller as Big. He is not as creative as Big. His best album wasn't better than Big best album. And most importantly no one ever said he was better than Big when he was alive. Nobody but his circle of friends. Jay is like the under achiever that rarely put in the work. He started out good but then started bullshiting. So when he does do well, people act like it's the best thing ever. Meanwhile you got others who been perform at a super high level all the long. But getting no props, because that's is expected of them. How can you be the best rapper when another rapper ethered you? Talk about impact. Nas made ether a house hold term. How can he be the best when you have a whole list of mcs with better albums? It's about rapping and music. ? that other ? .
Literally everything you said is your opinion and none of it is facts.... I think Jay is just as creative I'll take Jay best album which imo blueprint over Big best album for every person you hear say Jay got ethered you could find someone say takeover was better and wtf do being the best when you come out gotta do with being the best overall??? That makes no sense the ? had only one album at the time and the ? would go down as a classic so what are you talking about.... And to be the best you have to have so kinda of longevity of doing something that's what separates you I mean imagine if every rapper stopped at they second album we'd look at hip hop a whole lot different
Jay checks every box to be the GROAT that don't mean he's #1 in every box no rapper is or else we wouldn't be having this decision but no rapper ever checks more boxes than Jay whether you wanna admit that or not making him the GROAT
? everything you saying opinion not fact. Jay-z and people at the Roc said Nas beat him with Ether.Fact! Stop ? riding. Jay was lyrically his best during RD and Vol1. He dumbed it down after that. According to him. Fact! So if he wasn't better than Big when he was alive at his best lyrical. How is he better than him now? Nas got longevity and has a better discography. Fact! He beat him in a battle. And creatively, lyrically, is better. He is a better story teller, and is versatile with his content. Nas got one wack album. Jay got 5. Do the math.CeLLaR-DooR wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »What you keep failing to realize is this ain't sum make believe situation where we don't know who is on who's level we've SEEN Big and Jay perform together and have seen they are equals at worse so to sit here and try and compare songs we can do that all day but bottom line is they've rapped together so to ignore them rapping together and try and go verse for verse song for song or album for album is dumb..... They've been in the booth together multiple times and came out fairly even add that to the fact that Jay has matched him in any aspect of rapping you wanna bring up and he has every right to the claim of GROAT as Big if not more of a claim becuz he's done it at a high level longer
Jay not as good of a storyteller as Big. He is not as creative as Big. His best album wasn't better than Big best album. And most importantly no one ever said he was better than Big when he was alive. Nobody but his circle of friends. Jay is like the under achiever that rarely put in the work. He started out good but then started bullshiting. So when he does do well, people act like it's the best thing ever. Meanwhile you got others who been perform at a super high level all the long. But getting no props, because that's is expected of them. How can you be the best rapper when another rapper ethered you? Talk about impact. Nas made ether a house hold term. How can he be the best when you have a whole list of mcs with better albums? It's about rapping and music. ? that other ? .
Like who? Who been doin' it high and not gettin' props? Debates involvin' Jig always turn into this. ? talk like we only rate Jay cah he's popular and don't rate anyone else.
Name them ? who don't get props.
This another thing, no one is sayin' no one else hasnt done ? . The reason we have this discussion is coz there are a number of rappers who could be considered GOAT.
Ether is not a household term.
Jigga is still in the convo if we're just talkin' rappin' and music please let's not allow his other successes to blind us to this commonly held belief.
Common, Nas, Ghostface, Killah Priest, Sean Price, AZ, Mf Doom, KRS, LL, to name a few.
? look at the options to rate a post. It says ether by goat and cosign right? I neaver heard anyone outside of the scientific community say ether before Nas. And even then I only heard it maybe once. ? a hip-hop term now.
Jay got 5 wack albums??? Please name these albums?? And wtf don't you get about you have to show you can do something for a long period of time to be the greatest at it what other form of anything acting sports singing ANYTHING can you literally have 2 projects and be the greatest ever at it??? You sound like a salty ass ? foh ? said Nas got a better catalog is a fact who made this a fact you lol foh
Vol 3, MCHG, Kingdom Come, BP2, BP3. Why would you ask me to list them like I didn't have an answer waiting for you? And Nas been putting out albums before Jay. And so have Common. So there goes your longevity argument. You just sound stupid. -
Nopower_wisdom wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »What you keep failing to realize is this ain't sum make believe situation where we don't know who is on who's level we've SEEN Big and Jay perform together and have seen they are equals at worse so to sit here and try and compare songs we can do that all day but bottom line is they've rapped together so to ignore them rapping together and try and go verse for verse song for song or album for album is dumb..... They've been in the booth together multiple times and came out fairly even add that to the fact that Jay has matched him in any aspect of rapping you wanna bring up and he has every right to the claim of GROAT as Big if not more of a claim becuz he's done it at a high level longer
Jay not as good of a storyteller as Big. He is not as creative as Big. His best album wasn't better than Big best album. And most importantly no one ever said he was better than Big when he was alive. Nobody but his circle of friends. Jay is like the under achiever that rarely put in the work. He started out good but then started bullshiting. So when he does do well, people act like it's the best thing ever. Meanwhile you got others who been perform at a super high level all the long. But getting no props, because that's is expected of them. How can you be the best rapper when another rapper ethered you? Talk about impact. Nas made ether a house hold term. How can he be the best when you have a whole list of mcs with better albums? It's about rapping and music. ? that other ? .
Literally everything you said is your opinion and none of it is facts.... I think Jay is just as creative I'll take Jay best album which imo blueprint over Big best album for every person you hear say Jay got ethered you could find someone say takeover was better and wtf do being the best when you come out gotta do with being the best overall??? That makes no sense the ? had only one album at the time and the ? would go down as a classic so what are you talking about.... And to be the best you have to have so kinda of longevity of doing something that's what separates you I mean imagine if every rapper stopped at they second album we'd look at hip hop a whole lot different
Jay checks every box to be the GROAT that don't mean he's #1 in every box no rapper is or else we wouldn't be having this decision but no rapper ever checks more boxes than Jay whether you wanna admit that or not making him the GROAT
? everything you saying opinion not fact. Jay-z and people at the Roc said Nas beat him with Ether.Fact! Stop ? riding. Jay was lyrically his best during RD and Vol1. He dumbed it down after that. According to him. Fact! So if he wasn't better than Big when he was alive at his best lyrical. How is he better than him now? Nas got longevity and has a better discography. Fact! He beat him in a battle. And creatively, lyrically, is better. He is a better story teller, and is versatile with his content. Nas got one wack album. Jay got 5. Do the math.CeLLaR-DooR wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »What you keep failing to realize is this ain't sum make believe situation where we don't know who is on who's level we've SEEN Big and Jay perform together and have seen they are equals at worse so to sit here and try and compare songs we can do that all day but bottom line is they've rapped together so to ignore them rapping together and try and go verse for verse song for song or album for album is dumb..... They've been in the booth together multiple times and came out fairly even add that to the fact that Jay has matched him in any aspect of rapping you wanna bring up and he has every right to the claim of GROAT as Big if not more of a claim becuz he's done it at a high level longer
Jay not as good of a storyteller as Big. He is not as creative as Big. His best album wasn't better than Big best album. And most importantly no one ever said he was better than Big when he was alive. Nobody but his circle of friends. Jay is like the under achiever that rarely put in the work. He started out good but then started bullshiting. So when he does do well, people act like it's the best thing ever. Meanwhile you got others who been perform at a super high level all the long. But getting no props, because that's is expected of them. How can you be the best rapper when another rapper ethered you? Talk about impact. Nas made ether a house hold term. How can he be the best when you have a whole list of mcs with better albums? It's about rapping and music. ? that other ? .
Like who? Who been doin' it high and not gettin' props? Debates involvin' Jig always turn into this. ? talk like we only rate Jay cah he's popular and don't rate anyone else.
Name them ? who don't get props.
This another thing, no one is sayin' no one else hasnt done ? . The reason we have this discussion is coz there are a number of rappers who could be considered GOAT.
Ether is not a household term.
Jigga is still in the convo if we're just talkin' rappin' and music please let's not allow his other successes to blind us to this commonly held belief.
Common, Nas, Ghostface, Killah Priest, Sean Price, AZ, Mf Doom, KRS, LL, to name a few.
? look at the options to rate a post. It says ether by goat and cosign right? I neaver heard anyone outside of the scientific community say ether before Nas. And even then I only heard it maybe once. ? a hip-hop term now.
Jay got 5 wack albums??? Please name these albums?? And wtf don't you get about you have to show you can do something for a long period of time to be the greatest at it what other form of anything acting sports singing ANYTHING can you literally have 2 projects and be the greatest ever at it??? You sound like a salty ass ? foh ? said Nas got a better catalog is a fact who made this a fact you lol foh
Vol 3, MCHG, Kingdom Come, BP2, BP3. Why would you ask me to list them like I didn't have an answer waiting for you? And Nas been putting out albums before Jay. And so have Common. So there goes your longevity argument. You just sound stupid.
Vol 3 wasn't not wack -
Nopower_wisdom wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »What you keep failing to realize is this ain't sum make believe situation where we don't know who is on who's level we've SEEN Big and Jay perform together and have seen they are equals at worse so to sit here and try and compare songs we can do that all day but bottom line is they've rapped together so to ignore them rapping together and try and go verse for verse song for song or album for album is dumb..... They've been in the booth together multiple times and came out fairly even add that to the fact that Jay has matched him in any aspect of rapping you wanna bring up and he has every right to the claim of GROAT as Big if not more of a claim becuz he's done it at a high level longer
Jay not as good of a storyteller as Big. He is not as creative as Big. His best album wasn't better than Big best album. And most importantly no one ever said he was better than Big when he was alive. Nobody but his circle of friends. Jay is like the under achiever that rarely put in the work. He started out good but then started bullshiting. So when he does do well, people act like it's the best thing ever. Meanwhile you got others who been perform at a super high level all the long. But getting no props, because that's is expected of them. How can you be the best rapper when another rapper ethered you? Talk about impact. Nas made ether a house hold term. How can he be the best when you have a whole list of mcs with better albums? It's about rapping and music. ? that other ? .
Literally everything you said is your opinion and none of it is facts.... I think Jay is just as creative I'll take Jay best album which imo blueprint over Big best album for every person you hear say Jay got ethered you could find someone say takeover was better and wtf do being the best when you come out gotta do with being the best overall??? That makes no sense the ? had only one album at the time and the ? would go down as a classic so what are you talking about.... And to be the best you have to have so kinda of longevity of doing something that's what separates you I mean imagine if every rapper stopped at they second album we'd look at hip hop a whole lot different
Jay checks every box to be the GROAT that don't mean he's #1 in every box no rapper is or else we wouldn't be having this decision but no rapper ever checks more boxes than Jay whether you wanna admit that or not making him the GROAT
? everything you saying opinion not fact. Jay-z and people at the Roc said Nas beat him with Ether.Fact! Stop ? riding. Jay was lyrically his best during RD and Vol1. He dumbed it down after that. According to him. Fact! So if he wasn't better than Big when he was alive at his best lyrical. How is he better than him now? Nas got longevity and has a better discography. Fact! He beat him in a battle. And creatively, lyrically, is better. He is a better story teller, and is versatile with his content. Nas got one wack album. Jay got 5. Do the math.CeLLaR-DooR wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »What you keep failing to realize is this ain't sum make believe situation where we don't know who is on who's level we've SEEN Big and Jay perform together and have seen they are equals at worse so to sit here and try and compare songs we can do that all day but bottom line is they've rapped together so to ignore them rapping together and try and go verse for verse song for song or album for album is dumb..... They've been in the booth together multiple times and came out fairly even add that to the fact that Jay has matched him in any aspect of rapping you wanna bring up and he has every right to the claim of GROAT as Big if not more of a claim becuz he's done it at a high level longer
Jay not as good of a storyteller as Big. He is not as creative as Big. His best album wasn't better than Big best album. And most importantly no one ever said he was better than Big when he was alive. Nobody but his circle of friends. Jay is like the under achiever that rarely put in the work. He started out good but then started bullshiting. So when he does do well, people act like it's the best thing ever. Meanwhile you got others who been perform at a super high level all the long. But getting no props, because that's is expected of them. How can you be the best rapper when another rapper ethered you? Talk about impact. Nas made ether a house hold term. How can he be the best when you have a whole list of mcs with better albums? It's about rapping and music. ? that other ? .
Like who? Who been doin' it high and not gettin' props? Debates involvin' Jig always turn into this. ? talk like we only rate Jay cah he's popular and don't rate anyone else.
Name them ? who don't get props.
This another thing, no one is sayin' no one else hasnt done ? . The reason we have this discussion is coz there are a number of rappers who could be considered GOAT.
Ether is not a household term.
Jigga is still in the convo if we're just talkin' rappin' and music please let's not allow his other successes to blind us to this commonly held belief.
Common, Nas, Ghostface, Killah Priest, Sean Price, AZ, Mf Doom, KRS, LL, to name a few.
? look at the options to rate a post. It says ether by goat and cosign right? I neaver heard anyone outside of the scientific community say ether before Nas. And even then I only heard it maybe once. ? a hip-hop term now.
Jay got 5 wack albums??? Please name these albums?? And wtf don't you get about you have to show you can do something for a long period of time to be the greatest at it what other form of anything acting sports singing ANYTHING can you literally have 2 projects and be the greatest ever at it??? You sound like a salty ass ? foh ? said Nas got a better catalog is a fact who made this a fact you lol foh
Vol 3, MCHG, Kingdom Come, BP2, BP3. Why would you ask me to list them like I didn't have an answer waiting for you? And Nas been putting out albums before Jay. And so have Common. So there goes your longevity argument. You just sound stupid.
Vol 3 wasn't not wack
Most people feel different. But still 4 wack albums nothing to brag about either. Especially if you talking about calling someone a Groat. -
NoIt's been said before but the best mc is subjective. I'm not mad at the ? who says Jay is the best. In terms of popularity, longevity, etc but after that it comes down to the MUSIC. The discography. Rapping. If Nas and Pac didn't exist Jay would be the undisputed but Pacs impact is still being felt and Nas has just gotten better with age. Jay from a music standpoint is behind those ? .
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Yespower_wisdom wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »What you keep failing to realize is this ain't sum make believe situation where we don't know who is on who's level we've SEEN Big and Jay perform together and have seen they are equals at worse so to sit here and try and compare songs we can do that all day but bottom line is they've rapped together so to ignore them rapping together and try and go verse for verse song for song or album for album is dumb..... They've been in the booth together multiple times and came out fairly even add that to the fact that Jay has matched him in any aspect of rapping you wanna bring up and he has every right to the claim of GROAT as Big if not more of a claim becuz he's done it at a high level longer
Jay not as good of a storyteller as Big. He is not as creative as Big. His best album wasn't better than Big best album. And most importantly no one ever said he was better than Big when he was alive. Nobody but his circle of friends. Jay is like the under achiever that rarely put in the work. He started out good but then started bullshiting. So when he does do well, people act like it's the best thing ever. Meanwhile you got others who been perform at a super high level all the long. But getting no props, because that's is expected of them. How can you be the best rapper when another rapper ethered you? Talk about impact. Nas made ether a house hold term. How can he be the best when you have a whole list of mcs with better albums? It's about rapping and music. ? that other ? .
Literally everything you said is your opinion and none of it is facts.... I think Jay is just as creative I'll take Jay best album which imo blueprint over Big best album for every person you hear say Jay got ethered you could find someone say takeover was better and wtf do being the best when you come out gotta do with being the best overall??? That makes no sense the ? had only one album at the time and the ? would go down as a classic so what are you talking about.... And to be the best you have to have so kinda of longevity of doing something that's what separates you I mean imagine if every rapper stopped at they second album we'd look at hip hop a whole lot different
Jay checks every box to be the GROAT that don't mean he's #1 in every box no rapper is or else we wouldn't be having this decision but no rapper ever checks more boxes than Jay whether you wanna admit that or not making him the GROAT
? everything you saying opinion not fact. Jay-z and people at the Roc said Nas beat him with Ether.Fact! Stop ? riding. Jay was lyrically his best during RD and Vol1. He dumbed it down after that. According to him. Fact! So if he wasn't better than Big when he was alive at his best lyrical. How is he better than him now? Nas got longevity and has a better discography. Fact! He beat him in a battle. And creatively, lyrically, is better. He is a better story teller, and is versatile with his content. Nas got one wack album. Jay got 5. Do the math.CeLLaR-DooR wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »What you keep failing to realize is this ain't sum make believe situation where we don't know who is on who's level we've SEEN Big and Jay perform together and have seen they are equals at worse so to sit here and try and compare songs we can do that all day but bottom line is they've rapped together so to ignore them rapping together and try and go verse for verse song for song or album for album is dumb..... They've been in the booth together multiple times and came out fairly even add that to the fact that Jay has matched him in any aspect of rapping you wanna bring up and he has every right to the claim of GROAT as Big if not more of a claim becuz he's done it at a high level longer
Jay not as good of a storyteller as Big. He is not as creative as Big. His best album wasn't better than Big best album. And most importantly no one ever said he was better than Big when he was alive. Nobody but his circle of friends. Jay is like the under achiever that rarely put in the work. He started out good but then started bullshiting. So when he does do well, people act like it's the best thing ever. Meanwhile you got others who been perform at a super high level all the long. But getting no props, because that's is expected of them. How can you be the best rapper when another rapper ethered you? Talk about impact. Nas made ether a house hold term. How can he be the best when you have a whole list of mcs with better albums? It's about rapping and music. ? that other ? .
Like who? Who been doin' it high and not gettin' props? Debates involvin' Jig always turn into this. ? talk like we only rate Jay cah he's popular and don't rate anyone else.
Name them ? who don't get props.
This another thing, no one is sayin' no one else hasnt done ? . The reason we have this discussion is coz there are a number of rappers who could be considered GOAT.
Ether is not a household term.
Jigga is still in the convo if we're just talkin' rappin' and music please let's not allow his other successes to blind us to this commonly held belief.
Common, Nas, Ghostface, Killah Priest, Sean Price, AZ, Mf Doom, KRS, LL, to name a few.
? look at the options to rate a post. It says ether by goat and cosign right? I neaver heard anyone outside of the scientific community say ether before Nas. And even then I only heard it maybe once. ? a hip-hop term now.
Jay got 5 wack albums??? Please name these albums?? And wtf don't you get about you have to show you can do something for a long period of time to be the greatest at it what other form of anything acting sports singing ANYTHING can you literally have 2 projects and be the greatest ever at it??? You sound like a salty ass ? foh ? said Nas got a better catalog is a fact who made this a fact you lol foh
Vol 3, MCHG, Kingdom Come, BP2, BP3. Why would you ask me to list them like I didn't have an answer waiting for you? And Nas been putting out albums before Jay. And so have Common. So there goes your longevity argument. You just sound stupid.
Lol at vol 3 being wack gtfoh..... Clearly you don't hear yourself if you saying anybody sound stupid besides you... Vol 3 was wack but Nas only has one wack album when vol 3 was better than SD or Nastradumas smmfh -
Nomryounggun wrote: »All things being considered, at this point I honestly have a hard time understanding how anyone could have a serious argument for anyone BUT Jay.
Thats the problem, ? aint doing this.. too much bias being posted
Or.....Maybe ? is keepin it rap instead of talkin about everything else that comes with it. Financial accomplishments, business accomplishments do not make a great rapper, the art does. Artistically, he's there, but he doesn't stand alone.
If we're taking the wide view. Jay wins. Rapper view, he's a peer of the gods. But he's not thee ? . But he has a case. It's highly debatable. But I said this would happen on the first page. It's also, highly subjective. -
Nopower_wisdom wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »What you keep failing to realize is this ain't sum make believe situation where we don't know who is on who's level we've SEEN Big and Jay perform together and have seen they are equals at worse so to sit here and try and compare songs we can do that all day but bottom line is they've rapped together so to ignore them rapping together and try and go verse for verse song for song or album for album is dumb..... They've been in the booth together multiple times and came out fairly even add that to the fact that Jay has matched him in any aspect of rapping you wanna bring up and he has every right to the claim of GROAT as Big if not more of a claim becuz he's done it at a high level longer
Jay not as good of a storyteller as Big. He is not as creative as Big. His best album wasn't better than Big best album. And most importantly no one ever said he was better than Big when he was alive. Nobody but his circle of friends. Jay is like the under achiever that rarely put in the work. He started out good but then started bullshiting. So when he does do well, people act like it's the best thing ever. Meanwhile you got others who been perform at a super high level all the long. But getting no props, because that's is expected of them. How can you be the best rapper when another rapper ethered you? Talk about impact. Nas made ether a house hold term. How can he be the best when you have a whole list of mcs with better albums? It's about rapping and music. ? that other ? .
Literally everything you said is your opinion and none of it is facts.... I think Jay is just as creative I'll take Jay best album which imo blueprint over Big best album for every person you hear say Jay got ethered you could find someone say takeover was better and wtf do being the best when you come out gotta do with being the best overall??? That makes no sense the ? had only one album at the time and the ? would go down as a classic so what are you talking about.... And to be the best you have to have so kinda of longevity of doing something that's what separates you I mean imagine if every rapper stopped at they second album we'd look at hip hop a whole lot different
Jay checks every box to be the GROAT that don't mean he's #1 in every box no rapper is or else we wouldn't be having this decision but no rapper ever checks more boxes than Jay whether you wanna admit that or not making him the GROAT
? everything you saying opinion not fact. Jay-z and people at the Roc said Nas beat him with Ether.Fact! Stop ? riding. Jay was lyrically his best during RD and Vol1. He dumbed it down after that. According to him. Fact! So if he wasn't better than Big when he was alive at his best lyrical. How is he better than him now? Nas got longevity and has a better discography. Fact! He beat him in a battle. And creatively, lyrically, is better. He is a better story teller, and is versatile with his content. Nas got one wack album. Jay got 5. Do the math.CeLLaR-DooR wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »What you keep failing to realize is this ain't sum make believe situation where we don't know who is on who's level we've SEEN Big and Jay perform together and have seen they are equals at worse so to sit here and try and compare songs we can do that all day but bottom line is they've rapped together so to ignore them rapping together and try and go verse for verse song for song or album for album is dumb..... They've been in the booth together multiple times and came out fairly even add that to the fact that Jay has matched him in any aspect of rapping you wanna bring up and he has every right to the claim of GROAT as Big if not more of a claim becuz he's done it at a high level longer
Jay not as good of a storyteller as Big. He is not as creative as Big. His best album wasn't better than Big best album. And most importantly no one ever said he was better than Big when he was alive. Nobody but his circle of friends. Jay is like the under achiever that rarely put in the work. He started out good but then started bullshiting. So when he does do well, people act like it's the best thing ever. Meanwhile you got others who been perform at a super high level all the long. But getting no props, because that's is expected of them. How can you be the best rapper when another rapper ethered you? Talk about impact. Nas made ether a house hold term. How can he be the best when you have a whole list of mcs with better albums? It's about rapping and music. ? that other ? .
Like who? Who been doin' it high and not gettin' props? Debates involvin' Jig always turn into this. ? talk like we only rate Jay cah he's popular and don't rate anyone else.
Name them ? who don't get props.
This another thing, no one is sayin' no one else hasnt done ? . The reason we have this discussion is coz there are a number of rappers who could be considered GOAT.
Ether is not a household term.
Jigga is still in the convo if we're just talkin' rappin' and music please let's not allow his other successes to blind us to this commonly held belief.
Common, Nas, Ghostface, Killah Priest, Sean Price, AZ, Mf Doom, KRS, LL, to name a few.
? look at the options to rate a post. It says ether by goat and cosign right? I neaver heard anyone outside of the scientific community say ether before Nas. And even then I only heard it maybe once. ? a hip-hop term now.
Jay got 5 wack albums??? Please name these albums?? And wtf don't you get about you have to show you can do something for a long period of time to be the greatest at it what other form of anything acting sports singing ANYTHING can you literally have 2 projects and be the greatest ever at it??? You sound like a salty ass ? foh ? said Nas got a better catalog is a fact who made this a fact you lol foh
Vol 3, MCHG, Kingdom Come, BP2, BP3. Why would you ask me to list them like I didn't have an answer waiting for you? And Nas been putting out albums before Jay. And so have Common. So there goes your longevity argument. You just sound stupid.
Lol at vol 3 being wack gtfoh..... Clearly you don't hear yourself if you saying anybody sound stupid besides you... Vol 3 was wack but Nas only has one wack album when vol 3 was better than SD or Nastradumas smmfh
Nastradumas was wack. And so was Vol 3. And what about the other 4 albums I named. Let me guess was dope too right? Man you get the ? out of here. -
Yespower_wisdom wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »What you keep failing to realize is this ain't sum make believe situation where we don't know who is on who's level we've SEEN Big and Jay perform together and have seen they are equals at worse so to sit here and try and compare songs we can do that all day but bottom line is they've rapped together so to ignore them rapping together and try and go verse for verse song for song or album for album is dumb..... They've been in the booth together multiple times and came out fairly even add that to the fact that Jay has matched him in any aspect of rapping you wanna bring up and he has every right to the claim of GROAT as Big if not more of a claim becuz he's done it at a high level longer
Jay not as good of a storyteller as Big. He is not as creative as Big. His best album wasn't better than Big best album. And most importantly no one ever said he was better than Big when he was alive. Nobody but his circle of friends. Jay is like the under achiever that rarely put in the work. He started out good but then started bullshiting. So when he does do well, people act like it's the best thing ever. Meanwhile you got others who been perform at a super high level all the long. But getting no props, because that's is expected of them. How can you be the best rapper when another rapper ethered you? Talk about impact. Nas made ether a house hold term. How can he be the best when you have a whole list of mcs with better albums? It's about rapping and music. ? that other ? .
Literally everything you said is your opinion and none of it is facts.... I think Jay is just as creative I'll take Jay best album which imo blueprint over Big best album for every person you hear say Jay got ethered you could find someone say takeover was better and wtf do being the best when you come out gotta do with being the best overall??? That makes no sense the ? had only one album at the time and the ? would go down as a classic so what are you talking about.... And to be the best you have to have so kinda of longevity of doing something that's what separates you I mean imagine if every rapper stopped at they second album we'd look at hip hop a whole lot different
Jay checks every box to be the GROAT that don't mean he's #1 in every box no rapper is or else we wouldn't be having this decision but no rapper ever checks more boxes than Jay whether you wanna admit that or not making him the GROAT
? everything you saying opinion not fact. Jay-z and people at the Roc said Nas beat him with Ether.Fact! Stop ? riding. Jay was lyrically his best during RD and Vol1. He dumbed it down after that. According to him. Fact! So if he wasn't better than Big when he was alive at his best lyrical. How is he better than him now? Nas got longevity and has a better discography. Fact! He beat him in a battle. And creatively, lyrically, is better. He is a better story teller, and is versatile with his content. Nas got one wack album. Jay got 5. Do the math.CeLLaR-DooR wrote: »power_wisdom wrote: »What you keep failing to realize is this ain't sum make believe situation where we don't know who is on who's level we've SEEN Big and Jay perform together and have seen they are equals at worse so to sit here and try and compare songs we can do that all day but bottom line is they've rapped together so to ignore them rapping together and try and go verse for verse song for song or album for album is dumb..... They've been in the booth together multiple times and came out fairly even add that to the fact that Jay has matched him in any aspect of rapping you wanna bring up and he has every right to the claim of GROAT as Big if not more of a claim becuz he's done it at a high level longer
Jay not as good of a storyteller as Big. He is not as creative as Big. His best album wasn't better than Big best album. And most importantly no one ever said he was better than Big when he was alive. Nobody but his circle of friends. Jay is like the under achiever that rarely put in the work. He started out good but then started bullshiting. So when he does do well, people act like it's the best thing ever. Meanwhile you got others who been perform at a super high level all the long. But getting no props, because that's is expected of them. How can you be the best rapper when another rapper ethered you? Talk about impact. Nas made ether a house hold term. How can he be the best when you have a whole list of mcs with better albums? It's about rapping and music. ? that other ? .
Like who? Who been doin' it high and not gettin' props? Debates involvin' Jig always turn into this. ? talk like we only rate Jay cah he's popular and don't rate anyone else.
Name them ? who don't get props.
This another thing, no one is sayin' no one else hasnt done ? . The reason we have this discussion is coz there are a number of rappers who could be considered GOAT.
Ether is not a household term.
Jigga is still in the convo if we're just talkin' rappin' and music please let's not allow his other successes to blind us to this commonly held belief.
Common, Nas, Ghostface, Killah Priest, Sean Price, AZ, Mf Doom, KRS, LL, to name a few.
? look at the options to rate a post. It says ether by goat and cosign right? I neaver heard anyone outside of the scientific community say ether before Nas. And even then I only heard it maybe once. ? a hip-hop term now.
Jay got 5 wack albums??? Please name these albums?? And wtf don't you get about you have to show you can do something for a long period of time to be the greatest at it what other form of anything acting sports singing ANYTHING can you literally have 2 projects and be the greatest ever at it??? You sound like a salty ass ? foh ? said Nas got a better catalog is a fact who made this a fact you lol foh
Vol 3, MCHG, Kingdom Come, BP2, BP3. Why would you ask me to list them like I didn't have an answer waiting for you? And Nas been putting out albums before Jay. And so have Common. So there goes your longevity argument. You just sound stupid.
Lol at vol 3 being wack gtfoh..... Clearly you don't hear yourself if you saying anybody sound stupid besides you... Vol 3 was wack but Nas only has one wack album when vol 3 was better than SD or Nastradumas smmfh
Nastradumas was wack. And so was Vol 3. And what about the other 4 albums I named. Let me guess was dope too right? Man you get the ? out of here.
SD=BP2.... If BP2 is wack ? SD is just as wack... so already we at 2 Nas albums that are equal to Jay albums so that makes them wack too right??? Log off ? you just making up dumb ? to try and fit your case and sounding dumb -
NoIf you wanna nitpick, KC was top heavy, MCHG was wack and BP2 was wack.
Vol 3 was not wack, and neither was BP3. Especially BP3, it was just at a point where we expected everything to be classic material from Jay.
He really doesn't have many missteps in his career album wise, and honestly, the only other rapper I can think of with that kind of longevity that has less bad material is Scarface, and he unquestionably has a top 5 discography. -
NoWhen they said u hit diamond..theyre not talking about us and worldwide sales combined for that 1 album they're talking about in the states alone...if that was the case,then alot of artist would be diamond...smh
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YesI'm not a fan at all, but just off impact, he's got it. Can't even deny it
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No? is funny wit the longevity subpoints. Y'all act like a ? just automatically better than some ? just cuz they live to be on some Larry holmes flabby and sick ? and another ? didn't live that long so they don't count. Iverson old, that don't mean Kyrie won't cross his ass up these days.
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NoBOSSExcellence wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »i think ? need to know that there is a difference between great and best..
? dont aways run concurrent..
Mayweather is technically a better boxer than Ali..
but he aint greater than..
jus sayin..
Jay is technically a better rapper than big. But he ain't greater than.
20+ yrs >> 3yrs
Biggie the BoJack of hiphop..
All of that and he doesn't have a better performance than victory, and he doesn't have a better album than ready to die........
When you distill it all the way down to just gettin in the both and rapping.....
Big > Jay
my ? i like Big over Jay..
im not the biggest Jay fan at all..
but c'mo!!? Big aint take hiphop to this level.. Jay did..
this is why Jordan is greater than Kareem but ill slap fire to a ? sayin he better..
Jordan took the NBA to the next level..
Biggie was a ? artist..
as dope as he was he was jus that..
street level ? ..
we talkin about compare that to a ? music mogul who went and owned his own company and was president of the company that owned his conpany..
gettin his masters ownin stakes in a sports team.. big kickin it wit Buffet..
when Hilliary ? ass needed votes they aint call Common..
Jays that ? man..
it aint even nothin to argue..
Well then how come Jay wasn't doing that when Big was alive? How come when they was both here Jay of the two of them was considered more of the low level street ? ? Even when Big died Big was ahead of Jay in mainstream success so if Big wouldna died I have every reason to believe everything Jay has and accomplished woulda been Biggie's legacy instead. ? died and Jay saw what Big was tryna do and put his blinker on in his car and switched to that Lane and that's how he got to the top. If Big and Pac were alive Jay never gets this far. -
Yes? is funny wit the longevity subpoints. Y'all act like a ? just automatically better than some ? just cuz they live to be on some Larry holmes flabby and sick ? and another ? didn't live that long so they don't count. Iverson old, that don't mean Kyrie won't cross his ass up these days.
To be the greatest you have to show longevity....
We'd never call a singer the greatest off 2 albums
We'd never call a actor the greatest off 2 movies
We'd never call a athlete the greatest after 2 seasons
We'd never call a TV series the greatest off 2 episodes
We'd never a call producer the greatest off 2 projects
Etc....
Part of being the greatest at something is showing the ability to be elite at it for a long stretch of time and Jay is 20 years in still capable of dropping a classic like he just showed so in the it's hard to say somebody with 2 albums is greater becuz we judging him on only his highs meanwhile with 13 albums we judging you off highs and lows -
No270crownst wrote: »When they said u hit diamond..theyre not talking about us and worldwide sales combined for that 1 album they're talking about in the states alone...if that was the case,then alot of artist would be diamond...smh
Did the research on this....you right fam....but ? around if that was the case....would Jay-Z be diamond? Cause if Vol 2 ain't, I doubt his other albums would be -
YesBOSSExcellence wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »i think ? need to know that there is a difference between great and best..
? dont aways run concurrent..
Mayweather is technically a better boxer than Ali..
but he aint greater than..
jus sayin..
Jay is technically a better rapper than big. But he ain't greater than.
20+ yrs >> 3yrs
Biggie the BoJack of hiphop..
All of that and he doesn't have a better performance than victory, and he doesn't have a better album than ready to die........
When you distill it all the way down to just gettin in the both and rapping.....
Big > Jay
my ? i like Big over Jay..
im not the biggest Jay fan at all..
but c'mo!!? Big aint take hiphop to this level.. Jay did..
this is why Jordan is greater than Kareem but ill slap fire to a ? sayin he better..
Jordan took the NBA to the next level..
Biggie was a ? artist..
as dope as he was he was jus that..
street level ? ..
we talkin about compare that to a ? music mogul who went and owned his own company and was president of the company that owned his conpany..
gettin his masters ownin stakes in a sports team.. big kickin it wit Buffet..
when Hilliary ? ass needed votes they aint call Common..
Jays that ? man..
it aint even nothin to argue..
Well then how come Jay wasn't doing that when Big was alive? How come when they was both here Jay of the two of them was considered more of the low level street ? ? Even when Big died Big was ahead of Jay in mainstream success so if Big wouldna died I have every reason to believe everything Jay has and accomplished woulda been Biggie's legacy instead. ? died and Jay saw what Big was tryna do and put his blinker on in his car and switched to that Lane and that's how he got to the top. If Big and Pac were alive Jay never gets this far.
When you talk about the greatest of all time you have to take into account longevity. You can't say "if big lived or if pac lived". They accumulated stats for a little bit and unfortunately passed away. But after that Jay continued to make ? consistently for a bit. He had a few albums that were shaky but he bounced back and continued to add to his legacy.
The reason I think Jay is the goat is because he put together a full career of stats across various eras and still stayed hot. Cube went to ? movies, LL went to movies and other ? , Ice T went to SVU etc etc. So many talented rappers couldn't keep up with the times or ? left the game for other ventures. But Jay stayed in the league and put up numbers. -
NoIf you wanna nitpick, KC was top heavy, MCHG was wack and BP2 was wack.
Vol 3 was not wack, and neither was BP3. Especially BP3, it was just at a point where we expected everything to be classic material from Jay.
He really doesn't have many missteps in his career album wise, and honestly, the only other rapper I can think of with that kind of longevity that has less bad material is Scarface, and he unquestionably has a top 5 discography.
I was with you in strong agreement until the words BP3 wasn't wack. Lol
Say what!?
Ehhhh -
NoBOSSExcellence wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »i think ? need to know that there is a difference between great and best..
? dont aways run concurrent..
Mayweather is technically a better boxer than Ali..
but he aint greater than..
jus sayin..
Jay is technically a better rapper than big. But he ain't greater than.
20+ yrs >> 3yrs
Biggie the BoJack of hiphop..
All of that and he doesn't have a better performance than victory, and he doesn't have a better album than ready to die........
When you distill it all the way down to just gettin in the both and rapping.....
Big > Jay
my ? i like Big over Jay..
im not the biggest Jay fan at all..
but c'mo!!? Big aint take hiphop to this level.. Jay did..
this is why Jordan is greater than Kareem but ill slap fire to a ? sayin he better..
Jordan took the NBA to the next level..
Biggie was a ? artist..
as dope as he was he was jus that..
street level ? ..
we talkin about compare that to a ? music mogul who went and owned his own company and was president of the company that owned his conpany..
gettin his masters ownin stakes in a sports team.. big kickin it wit Buffet..
when Hilliary ? ass needed votes they aint call Common..
Jays that ? man..
it aint even nothin to argue..
Well then how come Jay wasn't doing that when Big was alive? How come when they was both here Jay of the two of them was considered more of the low level street ? ? Even when Big died Big was ahead of Jay in mainstream success so if Big wouldna died I have every reason to believe everything Jay has and accomplished woulda been Biggie's legacy instead. ? died and Jay saw what Big was tryna do and put his blinker on in his car and switched to that Lane and that's how he got to the top. If Big and Pac were alive Jay never gets this far.
Jay was livin the ? big was talkin.....Puttin his blinker on was pretty far fetched.
Big had a 2 year head start album wise......
Puff had a formula that propelled big pretty damn far......Which is essentially saying what if aaron rodgers had bill belichick?
Jay's time came when Hard Knock life dropped. He could have sold 5 mil in and Pac and big's space. Hard Knock Life didn't sound like anything Big or Pac had done previously.
if, if was a 5th we'd all be ? ? ....Big could have easily been a rapin you records story, the history of Bad Boy compensating its artists is not on the side of happily ever after. -
NoMeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »i think ? need to know that there is a difference between great and best..
? dont aways run concurrent..
Mayweather is technically a better boxer than Ali..
but he aint greater than..
jus sayin..
Jay is technically a better rapper than big. But he ain't greater than.
20+ yrs >> 3yrs
Biggie the BoJack of hiphop..
All of that and he doesn't have a better performance than victory, and he doesn't have a better album than ready to die........
When you distill it all the way down to just gettin in the both and rapping.....
Big > Jay
my ? i like Big over Jay..
im not the biggest Jay fan at all..
but c'mo!!? Big aint take hiphop to this level.. Jay did..
this is why Jordan is greater than Kareem but ill slap fire to a ? sayin he better..
Jordan took the NBA to the next level..
Biggie was a ? artist..
as dope as he was he was jus that..
street level ? ..
we talkin about compare that to a ? music mogul who went and owned his own company and was president of the company that owned his conpany..
gettin his masters ownin stakes in a sports team.. big kickin it wit Buffet..
when Hilliary ? ass needed votes they aint call Common..
Jays that ? man..
it aint even nothin to argue..
Well then how come Jay wasn't doing that when Big was alive? How come when they was both here Jay of the two of them was considered more of the low level street ? ? Even when Big died Big was ahead of Jay in mainstream success so if Big wouldna died I have every reason to believe everything Jay has and accomplished woulda been Biggie's legacy instead. ? died and Jay saw what Big was tryna do and put his blinker on in his car and switched to that Lane and that's how he got to the top. If Big and Pac were alive Jay never gets this far.
When you talk about the greatest of all time you have to take into account longevity. You can't say "if big lived or if pac lived". They accumulated stats for a little bit and unfortunately passed away. But after that Jay continued to make ? consistently for a bit. He had a few albums that were shaky but he bounced back and continued to add to his legacy.
The reason I think Jay is the goat is because he put together a full career of stats across various eras and still stayed hot. Cube went to ? movies, LL went to movies and other ? , Ice T went to SVU etc etc. So many talented rappers couldn't keep up with the times or ? left the game for other ventures. But Jay stayed in the league and put up numbers.
Yeah but his best seasons aren't as good as pacs best seasons and his worst seasons are way worse than pacs worse seasons
He never strung together seasons like cube did with his first 3 solos or ushered in a whole new era of hip hop either
