White Supremacist rally in Charlottesville
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I wonder if I should make a career taking sides with everyone like trump does
Maybe the only thing white supremacy learns from history is to repeat the horrible parts of it?
You dont need monuments to remind you of how ignorant you can be
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This should be good..... -
stringer bell wrote: »
Donald's grandfather was from Germany ,so I'm not surprise. -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhsjj8eBkwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRTs2mDlHL4
Kate Bolduan has being going in the past couple days... -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Typical politicians?
I dunno about that
Sure politicians are quick to twist and manipulate the facts for their own gain
Yes...Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »But what trump is doing as an american president is close to being unprecedented
For example he banned certain media outlets including the NY Times from white house press conferences which has never been down before in modern history
Yes, this is a particular divergence (apart from the, imo, commonplace scapegoating and propaganda that you mentioned). But to me, it's bad, at worst, but certainly not evil/Hitlerish. Because of this ban, the world's didn't end up in WWIII. The country didn't become the Third ? . The NYT still exists. Freedom of press isn't dead.
I personally have no particular feelings about that "ban" either way, especially since it's in his power to do so, and especially since, to state the obvious, I'm not a fan of mainstream media. I like neither Trump nor the NYT for, imo, very good reasons.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Cool, we agree White nationalism is a very strong connection between the two
Yes. I've made that point many times before (probably not in this thread though).Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »That said, i still stand by my position
And I stand by mine. I honestly don't think there are many sharp differences. It's still refreshing to have a civil argument without the demagoguery though.
Lol
Regardless of whether the ban has lead to war or the third ? , the parallels exist
And it wasnt just the NYTimes
The Trump has been openly hostile towards any reporter and or media outlets who dare publish anything negative or criticial of his campaign/presidency
Regardless of the legitimacy of those criticisms
That said, the ban and his administration's relationship with the press should disturb any reasonable person concerned about transparency or our governments commitment to democratic ideals
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this statue debate is dumb.
no one is trying to erase history. hell, if I was a confederate sympathizer, id want to erase history. i fought to keep humans enslaved, and, I lost? ? it, erase history, it never happened. so just off that fact, the erasing history excuse is dumb to me.
but here is the real issue, the statues celebrate history. and what are they celebrating? seperatist terrorists that divided the country, which led to a war that killed 600,000 people, over something as morally disgusting as slavery.
germany doesnt have any ? statues, and the history is not forgotten.
what does germany have though? many holocaust memorials. they remind people of the ? history of germany.
you ? really want to make sure history is remembered and doesnt get repeated? put up a bunch of slavery memorials to keep the fact that this country eslaved millions for 400 years. thats how its really done. -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »slightly different subjects? lol
you're argument is that what happened is being overblown and the protesters aren't the threat folk aren't making them out to be
or am i off base?
??? Didn't we already go over this at least two times?? Have we not already resolved this?? I really don't want to talk in circles.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »you are free to have your opinion
but again just because there were few fatalities and injuries doesn't make it true or give it any more validity
as i was saying these ppl may be on the fringe, but they again are also are our neighbors. lawyers. doctors. police offers. 911 operators. loan officers. classmates. teachers. nurses. future politicians. cooks. waiters. some of these ppl are in positions of power and influence to various degrees.
for any jew or person of color that should be nothing to scoff at. it would naive to do so. especially considering our personal beliefs can lead to outcome limiting assumptions in our work and how we vote
are they a bigger threat to my physical safety than any other extremist, can't say....but the threat exists. to what degree i don't think can be truly quantified
and i'm glad that the story is receiving this much "hype". it has helped to strip away the veneer of this solely being an issue of states' rights, military valor and southern pride. and it would ridiculous to argue otherwise
We've already been through this, no? I already responded to much of this.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »you want to make an argument the police did a bad job of containing the violence, cool... not sure how that is really relevant
What? First, I specifically responded to your respective point about the assault by agreeing with you, and then I simply added one additional comment to point to a major reason why that assault shouldn't had even taken place.
Like many of your own "irrelevant" points, that point was a (simple and short) side-note, but to say that pointing out a problem that led to the assault of a person is irrelevant either to your point or even more so generally is rather odd to me.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »is there a witch hunt going on? expound further
I didn't say that there is a witch hunt going on. I simply said I don't support witch hunting.
Lol
I was just further clarifying my position since as you suggested we may be on different pages
I never made the argument that what happened proved that these ppl are this signficiant violent threat
Though a legitimate case could be made, that would hard to truly quantify
I only said they were a big threat, theres a diff
Also typically when a ppl says or suggest they are against the partaking of any witch hunts, means they feel that a witch hunt is taking place or one is afoot...but ok ...
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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/lepage-confederate-statues-911-memorialPaul LePage Says Confederate Statues Are Comparable To 9/11 Memorial
Maine Gov. Paul LePage (R) said Thursday that removing statues and monuments for Confederate veterans and political figures was comparable — and would lead to — removing New York City’s memorial for the victims of the 9/11 attacks.
In an interview with WGAN, LePage was asked about the comparison President Donald Trump made Tuesday between the white supremacists who rallied in Charlottesville, Virginia over the weekend, and the counter-protesters who demonstrated against them.
The rally was ostensibly planned to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee from a park, though the white supremacist groups in attendance chanted “Jews will not replace us!” and “Blood and Soil!” recalling ? rhetoric. They carried swastikas and Confederate flags. One counter-protester was killed when a man who had protested with white supremacists allegedly rammed his car into a crowd.
“What they’re standing for is equally as bad,” LePage said, referring to the counter-protesters. “They’re trying to erase history.”
“They should study their history,” he added later. “They don’t even know the history of this country and they’re trying to take monuments down. Listen, whether we like it or not, this is what our history is.”
“To me, it’s just like going to New York City right now and taking down the monument of those who perished in 9/11,” he said. “It will come to that.”
It was an odd parallel. LePage was essentially comparing the Confederate States of America to 9/11 victims, and the terrorists who carried out the 9/11 attacks to the Union Army.
“I condemn both sides,” LePage separately in the interview. “I think they’re disgusting — both sides.”
“I don’t think he came off strong enough on either one of them,” LePage said at one point, referring to Trump’s remarks Tuesday, in which the President said not everyone who attended the rally on the white supremacists’ side was worthy of condemnation.
LePage — who admitted he hadn’t known about the protest for days because “I don’t watch TV and I don’t read newspapers, because frankly, I believe newspapers are nothing more than pencil terrorists” — seemed to confuse the stated goal of the so-called “antifa” groups in attendance demonstrating against the white supremacists.
The label is short for “anti-fascist,” and represents individuals who disrupt white supremacist gatherings, sometimes with violence. LePage seemed to think the group’s goal was explicitly to tear down Confederate statues, even though they were not actively involved in the Charlottesville City Council’s vote to remove the statue of Lee.
WGAN co-host Ken Altshuler tried one more time near the end of the interview: “The issue that Donald Trump had was the implication that there is a moral equivalence between antifa and the KKK,” he said. “Would you agree, though that what the KKK stands for is at least morally — I mean, if you have to judge morality, what they stand for is less desirous— “
“I answered that,” LePage said. “I think they’re both morally wrong. I condemn both organizations. I think there’s no room for either of these organizations in the United States of America.”
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this statue debate is dumb.
no one is trying to erase history. hell, if I was a confederate sympathizer, id want to erase history. i fought to keep humans enslaved, and, I lost? ? it, erase history, it never happened. so just off that fact, the erasing history excuse is dumb to me.
but here is the real issue, the statues celebrate history. and what are they celebrating? seperatist terrorists that divided the country, which led to a war that killed 600,000 people, over something as morally disgusting as slavery.
germany doesnt have any ? statues, and the history is not forgotten.
what does germany have though? many holocaust memorials. they remind people of the ? history of germany.
you ? really want to make sure history is remembered and doesnt get repeated? put up a bunch of slavery memorials to keep the fact that this country eslaved millions for 400 years. thats how its really done.
Instead of monuments, they have ? ? in museums, right? -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »otherwise you seem to be of the position that the protesters and or the alt right and other factions are being unfairly blamed for inciting violence
Nonsense.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »think that is kinda ? . though i have yet to see any indication that counter protesters were the instigators, protesters chanting 'blood and soil' and doing ? salutes are going incite a strong emotional response... especially in an already volatile environment
1. Perhaps you need to get out more and diversify your news sources, some of which will clearly indicate that there were counter-protesters who instigated. At the very least, once again, just know that I'm not on either side that advocates wanton violence.
2. Of course, there were strong emotional responses, but that still does not justify violent instigation.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »and there is a such thing as dangerous speech... these factions are famous for referring to minorities as takers, leeches or and cancer. obviously dehumanizing ppl and likening them to unfavorable things that can cause you harm can make violence used against said ppl seem acceptable and even necessary
Of course (you're stating quite a lot of obvious points that we already agree on) there is a such thing as dangerous speech. We've already been over this. We seem to disagree on some of the specifics, though I'm not sure. I'll say my position once again: Some hate speech can be and should be protected under the law of the First Amendment. Bad, mean, and even some "evil" words are...words. Exceptions like speech to directly incite violence is under no protection. Speech and thoughts are not necessarily active force worthy of legal punishment. Generally speaking, violence is only acceptable if it is self-defense from active force.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »then when the president of the country has repeatedly perpetuate this falsehoods that undocumented immigrants have committed more crimes than native born americans this further inflames tensions
.............Yes..............Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »that said, i think we can agree efforts to undermining dangerous speech still shouldn't infringe upon freedom of speech or involve violence
Yes!Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »if any of what i said doesn't apply to you don't respond
Too late. Probably would've been better placed at the beginning rather than the end. Thanks though. Don't tell me what to do.
1. It would smart to read my post in their entirety before collecting your thoughts. It could lead to things like your time and keystrokes being wasted. Things can be taken out of context
2. I tend to get my news from multiple sources.....mostly local sources. By most witness accounts the aggressors this particular day were the white nationalists, alt right, etc
3.Yes i do not condone violence. And ppl should be able to express themselves without government intervention
That said, ppl should be responsible. The ? salutes and chanting 'blood and soil' was highly irresponsible in these volatile times. And not the best way to distinguish yourself as a person that should not be considered a threat to ppl of color and jewish ppl. The alt right, in particular, want to dismiss claims they are racist and pretend as though their views are being mis-characterized this did not help their cause
If any of what i said doesn't apply to you don't respond lol -
this statue debate is dumb.
no one is trying to erase history. hell, if I was a confederate sympathizer, id want to erase history. i fought to keep humans enslaved, and, I lost? ? it, erase history, it never happened. so just off that fact, the erasing history excuse is dumb to me.
but here is the real issue, the statues celebrate history. and what are they celebrating? seperatist terrorists that divided the country, which led to a war that killed 600,000 people, over something as morally disgusting as slavery.
germany doesnt have any ? statues, and the history is not forgotten.
what does germany have though? many holocaust memorials. they remind people of the ? history of germany.
you ? really want to make sure history is remembered and doesnt get repeated? put up a bunch of slavery memorials to keep the fact that this country eslaved millions for 400 years. thats how its really done.
Instead of monuments, they have ? ? in museums, right?
Yeah Germany openly talk about their history they have museums to show how awful the Nazis were. I was just there they openly say we have no interest in hiding our past we need to talk about it so it never happens again. -
stringer bell wrote: »https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhsjj8eBkwYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRTs2mDlHL4
Kate Boudwan has being going in the past couple days...
I think this started when she was shut out during that Paris Dennard rant a few days ago. -
blue_london wrote: »this statue debate is dumb.
no one is trying to erase history. hell, if I was a confederate sympathizer, id want to erase history. i fought to keep humans enslaved, and, I lost? ? it, erase history, it never happened. so just off that fact, the erasing history excuse is dumb to me.
but here is the real issue, the statues celebrate history. and what are they celebrating? seperatist terrorists that divided the country, which led to a war that killed 600,000 people, over something as morally disgusting as slavery.
germany doesnt have any ? statues, and the history is not forgotten.
what does germany have though? many holocaust memorials. they remind people of the ? history of germany.
you ? really want to make sure history is remembered and doesnt get repeated? put up a bunch of slavery memorials to keep the fact that this country eslaved millions for 400 years. thats how its really done.
Instead of monuments, they have ? ? in museums, right?
Yeah Germany openly talk about their history they have museums to show how awful the Nazis were. I was just there they openly say we have no interest in hiding our past we need to talk about it so it never happens again.
They also gave them Jews reparations which is what black people and "white allies" should be fighting for instead of symbolic gestures like removing statues -
stringer bell wrote: »http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/lepage-confederate-statues-911-memorial
Paul LePage Says Confederate Statues Are Comparable To 9/11 Memorial
Maine Gov. Paul LePage (R) said Thursday that removing statues and monuments for Confederate veterans and political figures was comparable — and would lead to — removing New York City’s memorial for the victims of the 9/11 attacks.
In an interview with WGAN, LePage was asked about the comparison President Donald Trump made Tuesday between the white supremacists who rallied in Charlottesville, Virginia over the weekend, and the counter-protesters who demonstrated against them.
The rally was ostensibly planned to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee from a park, though the white supremacist groups in attendance chanted “Jews will not replace us!” and “Blood and Soil!” recalling ? rhetoric. They carried swastikas and Confederate flags. One counter-protester was killed when a man who had protested with white supremacists allegedly rammed his car into a crowd.
“What they’re standing for is equally as bad,” LePage said, referring to the counter-protesters. “They’re trying to erase history.”
“They should study their history,” he added later. “They don’t even know the history of this country and they’re trying to take monuments down. Listen, whether we like it or not, this is what our history is.”
“To me, it’s just like going to New York City right now and taking down the monument of those who perished in 9/11,” he said. “It will come to that.”
It was an odd parallel. LePage was essentially comparing the Confederate States of America to 9/11 victims, and the terrorists who carried out the 9/11 attacks to the Union Army.
“I condemn both sides,” LePage separately in the interview. “I think they’re disgusting — both sides.”
“I don’t think he came off strong enough on either one of them,” LePage said at one point, referring to Trump’s remarks Tuesday, in which the President said not everyone who attended the rally on the white supremacists’ side was worthy of condemnation.
LePage — who admitted he hadn’t known about the protest for days because “I don’t watch TV and I don’t read newspapers, because frankly, I believe newspapers are nothing more than pencil terrorists” — seemed to confuse the stated goal of the so-called “antifa” groups in attendance demonstrating against the white supremacists.
The label is short for “anti-fascist,” and represents individuals who disrupt white supremacist gatherings, sometimes with violence. LePage seemed to think the group’s goal was explicitly to tear down Confederate statues, even though they were not actively involved in the Charlottesville City Council’s vote to remove the statue of Lee.
WGAN co-host Ken Altshuler tried one more time near the end of the interview: “The issue that Donald Trump had was the implication that there is a moral equivalence between antifa and the KKK,” he said. “Would you agree, though that what the KKK stands for is at least morally — I mean, if you have to judge morality, what they stand for is less desirous— “
“I answered that,” LePage said. “I think they’re both morally wrong. I condemn both organizations. I think there’s no room for either of these organizations in the United States of America.”
thats ridiculous. thats more like if there were statues of the highjackers and/or the airplanes as monuments or memorials of the "history." -
Don't know if this been posted but lol -
Trump supporters are having another rally in Dc soon.
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Turfaholic wrote: »
This should be good.....
A lie theres only one white person speaking -
I know people hate racism an the ? but are we saying they have no right to assemble...
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blackgod813 wrote: »I know people hate racism an the ? but are we saying they have no right to assemble...
Who said that? Those mufukas been assembling for generations ? . -
blue_london wrote: »this statue debate is dumb.
no one is trying to erase history. hell, if I was a confederate sympathizer, id want to erase history. i fought to keep humans enslaved, and, I lost? ? it, erase history, it never happened. so just off that fact, the erasing history excuse is dumb to me.
but here is the real issue, the statues celebrate history. and what are they celebrating? seperatist terrorists that divided the country, which led to a war that killed 600,000 people, over something as morally disgusting as slavery.
germany doesnt have any ? statues, and the history is not forgotten.
what does germany have though? many holocaust memorials. they remind people of the ? history of germany.
you ? really want to make sure history is remembered and doesnt get repeated? put up a bunch of slavery memorials to keep the fact that this country eslaved millions for 400 years. thats how its really done.
Instead of monuments, they have ? ? in museums, right?
Yeah Germany openly talk about their history they have museums to show how awful the Nazis were. I was just there they openly say we have no interest in hiding our past we need to talk about it so it never happens again.
Yeah, and what I'm getting at is that we shouldn't have confederate monuments, they need to be removed and moved into a museum. In place of those confederate monuments, give remembrance to those who were enslaved. Show our history and progress. -
idk if these "statues", or monuments, are art, but can the same idea be applied here??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDaldVHUedI
https://youtu.be/pbi67FZWeKc
