White Supremacist rally in Charlottesville
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ghostdog56 wrote: »blue_london wrote: »this statue debate is dumb.
no one is trying to erase history. hell, if I was a confederate sympathizer, id want to erase history. i fought to keep humans enslaved, and, I lost? ? it, erase history, it never happened. so just off that fact, the erasing history excuse is dumb to me.
but here is the real issue, the statues celebrate history. and what are they celebrating? seperatist terrorists that divided the country, which led to a war that killed 600,000 people, over something as morally disgusting as slavery.
germany doesnt have any ? statues, and the history is not forgotten.
what does germany have though? many holocaust memorials. they remind people of the ? history of germany.
you ? really want to make sure history is remembered and doesnt get repeated? put up a bunch of slavery memorials to keep the fact that this country eslaved millions for 400 years. thats how its really done.
Instead of monuments, they have ? ? in museums, right?
Yeah Germany openly talk about their history they have museums to show how awful the Nazis were. I was just there they openly say we have no interest in hiding our past we need to talk about it so it never happens again.
They also gave them Jews reparations which is what black people and "white allies" should be fighting for instead of symbolic gestures like removing statues
Will never happen. All these white folks talking that equality talk will turn ? quick than maffucah. On some.... My family didn't own slaves. Of course dismissing the privilege that White Supremacy has afforded them. -
blackgod813 wrote: »I know people hate racism an the ? but are we saying they have no right to assemble...
Who said that? Those mufukas been assembling for generations ? .
Lol true..but antifa saying they gonna show up every where they at an fight.. . -
ghostdog56 wrote: »blue_london wrote: »this statue debate is dumb.
no one is trying to erase history. hell, if I was a confederate sympathizer, id want to erase history. i fought to keep humans enslaved, and, I lost? ? it, erase history, it never happened. so just off that fact, the erasing history excuse is dumb to me.
but here is the real issue, the statues celebrate history. and what are they celebrating? seperatist terrorists that divided the country, which led to a war that killed 600,000 people, over something as morally disgusting as slavery.
germany doesnt have any ? statues, and the history is not forgotten.
what does germany have though? many holocaust memorials. they remind people of the ? history of germany.
you ? really want to make sure history is remembered and doesnt get repeated? put up a bunch of slavery memorials to keep the fact that this country eslaved millions for 400 years. thats how its really done.
Instead of monuments, they have ? ? in museums, right?
Yeah Germany openly talk about their history they have museums to show how awful the Nazis were. I was just there they openly say we have no interest in hiding our past we need to talk about it so it never happens again.
They also gave them Jews reparations which is what black people and "white allies" should be fighting for instead of symbolic gestures like removing statues
Will never happen. All these white folks talking that equality talk will turn ? quick than maffucah. On some.... My family didn't own slaves. Of course dismissing the privilege that White Supremacy has afforded them.
Yea that why I say ? giving crackers pats on the back for taking down statues is silly because they will never help you get truly free. All this ? is, is a civil war between overt racist and covert racist and no matter who wins black people won't benefit until we start doing for self -
Reversed game on em.. -
Reversed game on em..
The black woman will get all the years and them crackers will get community service -
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/robert-e-lee-defaced-dukeUniversity: Robert E. Lee Statue Near Entrance Of Duke Chapel Vandalized
A statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee near the entrance of the Duke University chapel was vandalized overnight Wednesday, the university confirmed Thursday morning.
“Each of us deserves a voice in determining how to address the questions raised by the statues of Robert E. Lee and others, and confront the darker moments in our nation’s history,” university president Vincent E. Price said in a statement acknowledging the vandalism. “For an individual or group of individuals to take matters into their own hands and vandalize a house of worship undermines the right, protected in our Commitment to Diversity and Inclusion, of every Duke student and employee to participate fully in university life.”
The vandalism follows a wave of removed Confederate statues and monuments — both at the behest of local governments, and as a result of criminal property damage — following a white supremacist rally over the weekend in Charlottesville, Virginia ostensibly planned to protest the removal of a statue of Lee from a park.
White supremacist groups organized the rally — despite President Donald Trump’s claim that “very fine people” joined in for the statue’s sake — and one counter-protester was left dead on Saturday after a man who had been photographed with the white supremacist group American Vanguard allegedly rammed his car into a crowd.
Protesters on Monday brought down a Confederate statue in Durham, North Carolina. On Tuesday night, the mayor of Birmingham, Alabama ordered a Confederate monument in his city to be covered in plywood walls — though he was later sued in his official capacity by Alabama’s attorney general for allegedly violating a new law against removing or altering certain monuments on public land.
Further sanctioned monument removals have taken place across the country.
After initially saying Tuesday that the status of Confederate monuments should be left to the governments with jurisdiction over them, Trump came out strongly Thursday morning on behalf of the Charlottesville white supremacist protesters’ demands, saying he was “ad to see the history and culture of our great country being ripped apart with the removal of our beautiful statues and monuments” and that “the beauty that is being taken out of our cities, towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able to be comparably replaced!”
university president Vincent E. Price said in a statement acknowledging the vandalism. “For an individual or group of individuals to take matters into their own hands and vandalize a house of worship undermines the right, protected in our Commitment to Diversity and Inclusion, of every Duke student and employee to participate fully in university life
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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/pelosi-confederate-statue-trump-capitolPelosi: It’s Time To Get Rid Of Confederate Statues In The Capitol
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) on Thursday called for all Confederate statues to be removed from the Capitol, saying the statues are “reprehensible.”
“There is no room for celebrating the violent bigotry of the men of the Confederacy in the hallowed halls of the United States Capitol or in places of honor across the country,” she said in a statement.
Pelosi pressured House Speaker Paul Ryan and other Republicans to follow suit.
“If Republicans are serious about rejecting white supremacy,” she said, “I call upon Speaker Ryan to join Democrats to remove the Confederate statues from the Capitol immediately.”
Pelosi’s move follows a violent white supremacist rally over the weekend that aimed to protest the removal of a Robert E. Lee statue in Charlottesville, Virginia. A self-proclaimed white supremacist allegedly drove his car into a crowd of counter-protesters, killing one woman and injuries more than a dozen people.
The rally and President Donald Trump’s “both sides” defense of the ? flag-waving protesters sparked heated debates about Confederate symbols and white supremacy. Several cities have since promised to take down Confederate statues, and North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper pledged on Tuesday to take them down state-wide.
During a press conference on Tuesday, Trump expressed his opposition to removing the statues. “I wonder, is it George Washington next week? And is it Thomas Jefferson the week after?” he asked.
Trump doubled down on Thursday morning, lamenting that the removal of the “beautiful” monuments would ruin the “history and culture” of the U.S.Read Pelosi’s full statement below:
“The halls of Congress are the very heart of our democracy. The statues in the Capitol should embody our highest ideals as Americans, expressing who we are and who we aspire to be as a nation.
“The Confederate statues in the halls of Congress have always been reprehensible. If Republicans are serious about rejecting white supremacy, I call upon Speaker Ryan to join Democrats to remove the Confederate statues from the Capitol immediately.
“Under the leadership of Democrats in Congress, we have recognized more women and people of color in Congress’s collection of statues, including Rosa Parks, Sojourner Truth and Helen Keller. As Speaker, we relocated Robert E. Lee out of a place of honor in National Statuary Hall – a place now occupied by the statue of Rosa Parks.
“There is no room for celebrating the violent bigotry of the men of the Confederacy in the hallowed halls of the United States Capitol or in places of honor across the country.” -
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stringer bell wrote: »
One of the smartest things this dude has ever said. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »stringer bell wrote: »
One of the smartest things this dude has ever said.
Lol backhand compliment -
They trying to take the confederate monument statue down in Tampa..them crackers gona riot..
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Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »can you make the case ppl, the media both sides of the isle are inflaming tensions, yes. and can we do without the the trump and hilter, ? comparisons? yes
Good, once again, we are in agreement, but I suspect there's more...Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »but these tensions that have long existed and stems from our country's long and continued mistreatment of non white ppl
Yes...Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »and groups like BAMN and antifa are autonomous anti racist groups whose growth are fueled by white nationalism. most i heard of them is when they are either exposing neo nazis or pressuring venues to cancel ? events
Here is where we differ, I think. I mean no disrespect, but just how familiar are you with these groups? Or perhaps not very much since you asked me whether they even existed. Am I anti-racist? Yes. If that is their platform, then I agree with these groups but only on a platform level.
However, then there is the execution of this "stated" stance. This is my major beef. I believe (and you may also believe when you do research on these groups) that their execution involves demagoguery, flat-out idiocy, wanton violence, propaganda, corruption, and other counter-productive measures that actually mirror those of the very people whom they claim to protest. Again, two sides of the same coin, and I will not support ? whether it comes from one side or the other.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »while antifa perpetrates violence, it doesn’t perpetrate it on anything like the scale that white nationalists do.
Even if this was true (which might be irrelevant), is this not a self-evidently bad argument? Again, most if not all of my questions are honest, as opposed to rhetorical. But your question looks like this: But Person A only murdered 2 people. Person B murdered 12!
Imo, wanton violence is unacceptable. Period. Don't quote me on this, but I believe violence is actually strictly part of Antifa's platform. That's saying something, regardless.
Your questions are honest? ? lol
And where are you getting your info on Antifa? links?
Today there is a lot of misinformation being thrown around by ppl of varying political affiliations, and the truth and opinion are so intertwined that separating them is close to impossible. But reality does exist. It is not a malleable thing. It is not flexible. It is not subjective.
With the exception of a propensity for violence maybe, as of right now there is little to no objective evidence that these aforementioned groups are comparable to neo Nazis as you suggested
Neo nazis who stood outside synagogues with automatic machine guns to incite and scare the Jewish ppl inside
Neo nazis who spread racist propaganda directly intended to dehumanize and incite violence against ppl of color and Jews
Also...
Groups like BAMN, antifa activists don’t wield anything like the alt right’s power. The alt right who cohorts with white supremacist, nationalists. White supremacy havign been government policy for all our history. They have no support in Congress. They have no Steve Banon in the white house. They don't have a Fox News equivalent
BAMN, antifa’s vision is not as noxious. From the research that I've done, antifa activists do not celebrate regimes that committed genocide and enforced slavery. They’re mostly anarchists, but it’s not an ideology that depicts the members of a particular race or religion as subhuman
Yes, the tactics of BAMN and antifa are at times problematic, counter productive and shouldn't been tolerated. But it's not like members who commit illegal acts aren't promptly arrested. And they have little to no powerful friends and supporters on the left who are trying to make the case their actions are always justified
Otherwise I see no issue with them or anyone wanting to disrupt these white nationalist gatherings without inciting violence. Interference with speech is an expression of free speech. Resistance doesn't have to be quiet
And all things considered, its not hard to see why everyone is a bit more concerned/ preoccupied with the growth of the alt-right, white nationalism, neo nazis, etc
Someone wants to really undermine antifa, comparing their numbers or their cause to actual white nationalist and supremacists is not the way. It's laughable and dangerous
I'll go even a step further than i did earlier, after alil introspection, comparing to Trump to Hilter can be dangerous
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? is about to get real in DC this weekend!
Trump rally and Insane Clown Posse rally both planned for same day in DC
Faygo versus fascism.
If they are nothing else, the facepaint-wearing duo of Violent J and Shaggy 2 Dope, otherwise known as the hip-hop group Insane Clown Posse, are incomparable planners.
In addition to their annual Gathering of the Juggalos event in which fans, aka Juggalos, come together to celebrate all things ICP, last summer the duo announced a "Million Juggalo March" on Washington, D.C., in response to the FBI classifying the fan base as a gang.
As fate would have it though, that event, set for Sept. 16, looks to be sharing the National Mall with a pro-Trump rally, MetalSucks reports.
Titled the "Mother of All Rallies Patriot Unification Gathering," the assembly's website lists white supremacist groups the Alt-Knights and the Proud Boys as affiliates while claiming "all people regardless of race, religion, sexual orientation, age or political affiliation are invited."
As of Thursday morning, 1,600 people said on Facebook they would be attending.
Meanwhile, the ICP has very plainly stated its views on racism, particularly in the song "My Axe," in which the group raps, "Me and my axe cut biggots' spinal cords in half," in addition to proclaiming their trademark love for the soft drink brand Faygo.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/pro-trump-rally-set-showdown-juggalo-march-article-1.3419708
@genocidecutter
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blackgod813 wrote: »blackgod813 wrote: »I know people hate racism an the ? but are we saying they have no right to assemble...
Who said that? Those mufukas been assembling for generations ? .
Lol true..but antifa saying they gonna show up every where they at an fight.. .
that's what you're supposed to do to ? 's. this ? ain't some revolutionary new idea. -
so they're gonna plan a "million juggalo march" in the streets of Washington D.C... in face paint..
..to protest them being called a gang..
Great way to start.. -
blackgod813 wrote: »I know people hate racism an the ? but are we saying they have no right to assemble...
Thing is, they don't deserve that right because they based their ideology in hate. They can yell freedom of speech all they want, but there is no freedom of speech under the 'offense principle'.
Why should we allow such violent hatred? A group of one people wanting to exterminate the people of color just because of color.
? was given a platform and look at history. If given the opportunity, it's gonna grow into something even more awful than it is right now. Had they not allowed ? to have that platform...
This is why we have to take it away from them. It's not a right that's deserved.
They're playing a mental game every protest. They know they don't have to throw the first punch; all they need to do is incite violence through their presence and hateful words. You can feel that energy of hate. People are gonna punch ? 's and it's ? deserved, but horrible for the movement.
That's why they cannot be allowed to assemble. They are trolls. They're manipulating the story through their "non-violent" actions by verbally inviting the opposition to look like the violent ones. They take the bait over and over.
They don't have freedoms of hate. ? them. -
@Plutarch
The sheer volume of "physical violence" attributed to white supremacy across centuries dwarfs anything that "Antifa" has wrought within orders of magnitude.
This says nothing of the emotional, psychological, and socioeconomic oppression and destruction; that the ideology of the white supremacy has inflicted for generations.
The two sects are NOT comparable.
Not empirically, with the scale of their violence.
Not morally, with the spirit of their messaging.
Being against fascism is not the same as advocating for the ethnic cleansing of those different from you.
..............Yes, I agree with you!! And I already had done so. What you said was painfully obvious. I don't believe I've said anything to the contrary. If I'm honestly wrong about that, please quote me, because I might not understand you.
I think it's clear that some people are not understanding me, and I honestly don't think that's much of my fault. But ironically, discussion boards aren't the best medium for discussion. -
It's interesting that you only attribute a movement dangerous AFTER the expressed OUTCOME of said danger.
As if symbolism, momentum, and influence cannot exist as precursors to such outcomes.
The holocaust WASN'T the holocaust ... until it WAS.
If you care to, can you please start quoting me when making accusations against me? I think that might clear up a lot of confusion, because I think I've neither done what you said I've done nor believe what you said I believe.Hateful ideologies that can mobilize the masses are inherently dangerous; especially those with as storied a history as White Supremacy.
Thousands do not have to be murdered in its name for this to be true.
.......Yes, I agree with this obvious truth......
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blackgod813 wrote: »blackgod813 wrote: »I know people hate racism an the ? but are we saying they have no right to assemble...
Who said that? Those mufukas been assembling for generations ? .
Lol true..but antifa saying they gonna show up every where they at an fight.. .
that's what you're supposed to do to ? 's. this ? ain't some revolutionary new idea.blackgod813 wrote: »I know people hate racism an the ? but are we saying they have no right to assemble...
Thing is, they don't deserve that right because they based their ideology in hate. They can yell freedom of speech all they want, but there is no freedom of speech under the 'offense principle'.
Why should we allow such violent hatred? A group of one people wanting to exterminate the people of color just because of color.
? was given a platform and look at history. If given the opportunity, it's gonna grow into something even more awful than it is right now. Had they not allowed ? to have that platform...
This is why we have to take it away from them. It's not a right that's deserved.
They're playing a mental game every protest. They know they don't have to throw the first punch; all they need to do is incite violence through their presence and hateful words. You can feel that energy of hate. People are gonna punch ? 's and it's ? deserved, but horrible for the movement.
That's why they cannot be allowed to assemble. They are trolls. They're manipulating the story through their "non-violent" actions by verbally inviting the opposition to look like the violent ones. They take the bait over and over.
They don't have freedoms of hate. ? them.
Hmm i obviously never dealt with nazis on a first hand bases just rednecks...i suppose the concept is to nip hatred right in the bud fine fair enough ...but what does that say about white people that if we allow nazis to speak there movement will grow like wild fire thats the scariest part of this thought process.. -
Tariq is almost always on point. Plus you've posted too much dumb ? to question how smart another ? isThe Lonious Monk wrote: »stringer bell wrote: »
One of the smartest things this dude has ever said. -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Lol
Regardless of whether the ban has lead to war or the third ? , the parallels exist
Of course, they do, but weak parallels, imo. That was my point, in reference to your defense of ? comparisons. But that's neither here nor there, as our difference seems to be a splitting of hairs.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »And it wasnt just the NYTimes
The Trump has been openly hostile towards any reporter and or media outlets who dare publish anything negative or criticial of his campaign/presidency
Regardless of the legitimacy of those criticisms
That said, the ban and his administration's relationship with the press should disturb any reasonable person concerned about transparency or our governments commitment to democratic ideals
Yes, I generally agree.... -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Lol
I was just further clarifying my position since as you suggested we may be on different pages
I never made the argument that what happened proved that these ppl are this signficiant violent threat
Though a legitimate case could be made, that would hard to truly quantify
I only said they were a big threat, theres a diff
OK...Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Also typically when a ppl says or suggest they are against the partaking of any witch hunts, means they feel that a witch hunt is taking place or one is afoot...but ok ...
I'm not sure about that. It's very reasonable for someone to literally make a caveat and say that they're against witch hunts to further clarify their position against the possibility of descending into witch hunting, which has a historical and human precedence. Regardless, your suspicions proved unfounded. -
blackamerica wrote: »
Tariq is almost always on point. Plus you've posted too much dumb ? to question how smart another ? isThe Lonious Monk wrote: »stringer bell wrote: »
One of the smartest things this dude has ever said.
If by almost always on point you mean sometimes mixes half truths in with somewhat decent commentary, then yeah he's always on point.
And a ? like you whose vocabulary begins and ends with the word "? " probably hasn't undertood anything I've said well enough to judge what I've said. And quit following me around ? ? . If you don't like what I say, put me on ignore. -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »1. It would smart to read my post in their entirety before collecting your thoughts. It could lead to things like your time and keystrokes being wasted. Things can be taken out of context
Sheesh, I was just teasing. But still, I think placing that warning at beginning (kind of like how you're doing now) is far more reasonable than me reading through all of your series of posts and then responding. I don't need to do that to collect my thoughts. Meh, no biggie?Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »2. I tend to get my news from multiple sources.....mostly local sources. By most witness accounts the aggressors this particular day were the white nationalists, alt right, etc
Again, yes. I don't think I've said anything to the contrary. I simply said that there were counter-protesters who instigated. Again, Antifa is (in)famous for doing so. I'm making a very plausible claim: both sides had a hand in instigating the violence, regardless. I'm not sure it's a simple as saying one side started it all or one side were the aggressors.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »3.Yes i do not condone violence. And ppl should be able to express themselves without government intervention
That said, ppl should be responsible. The ? salutes and chanting 'blood and soil' was highly irresponsible in these volatile times. And not the best way to distinguish yourself as a person that should not be considered a threat to ppl of color and jewish ppl. The alt right, in particular, want to dismiss claims they are racist and pretend as though their views are being mis-characterized this did not help their cause
Yes, I agree. If I haven't made it clear before, let me do so now: ? the alt right.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »If any of what i said doesn't apply to you don't respond lol
Hahaha. Too late. -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
Your questions are honest? ? lol
Haha, more claims without evidence. Pass.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »And where are you getting your info on Antifa? links?
For one, actual footage that's freely available on the internet.[/quote]Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Today there is a lot of misinformation being thrown around by ppl of varying political affiliations, and the truth and opinion are so intertwined that separating them is close to impossible. But reality does exist. It is not a malleable thing. It is not flexible. It is not subjective.
...Yes...Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »With the exception of a propensity for violence maybe, as of right now there is little to no objective evidence that these aforementioned groups are comparable to neo Nazis as you suggested
"Comparable"? Not sure if you're using that accurately to describe my point. For the millionth time, I believe I merely said that the two have used unjustified violence, regardless.Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »Neo nazis who stood outside synagogues with automatic machine guns to incite and scare the Jewish ppl inside
Neo nazis who spread racist propaganda directly intended to dehumanize and incite violence against ppl of color and Jews
You're making my small reasonable comparison into something bigger that I don't even subscribe to. I'm not concerned about a ? contest between neo-nazis and Antifa. Once again...? it, I'm tired of repeating myself.
