Silver Surfer VS Superman?
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »Aren't there multiple instances of Surfer dodging laser fire? And we're talking about dodging them, no leading the shooter. That means he has reflexes at least the speed of light. Not to mention that even by comic book standards, anyone that can move at light speeds have to have extremely fast reflexes to in order to avoid crashing into things.
Laser fire doesn't equal light speed; otherwise, Spider-Man has light speed reflexes too.
Your second point makes sense in a real world sense, but outside of the planet search, Surfer really hasn't shown super speed reflexes.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »Aren't there multiple instances of Surfer dodging laser fire? And we're talking about dodging them, no leading the shooter. That means he has reflexes at least the speed of light. Not to mention that even by comic book standards, anyone that can move at light speeds have to have extremely fast reflexes to in order to avoid crashing into things.
Laser fire doesn't equal light speed; otherwise, Spider-Man has light speed reflexes too.
Your second point makes sense in a real world sense, but outside of the planet search, Surfer really hasn't shown super speed reflexes.
Surfer better drain Supes energy or die. Surfer is vastly overrated. He took a punch from she hulk (no stronger than ironman) and ? act like he is impervious to pain and ? like undertaker back in the day....Thor has way more durability feats than surfer. Surfer will get touched by Supes and again he has zero battle react feats
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »Aren't there multiple instances of Surfer dodging laser fire? And we're talking about dodging them, no leading the shooter. That means he has reflexes at least the speed of light. Not to mention that even by comic book standards, anyone that can move at light speeds have to have extremely fast reflexes to in order to avoid crashing into things.
Laser fire doesn't equal light speed; otherwise, Spider-Man has light speed reflexes too.
Your second point makes sense in a real world sense, but outside of the planet search, Surfer really hasn't shown super speed reflexes.
What? You're not dodging laser fire from close range without having reflexes on the order of the speed of light. Again there is a difference between being able to actually dodge lasers after they have been fired and the ability to lead the shooter. Spiderman can do the latter; Surfer can do the former.
And again, Surfer has been shown to fly through asteroid fields at high speeds. Real world or comic book, that is an impressive reaction feat. -
Well in the real world the asteroid field, asteroids are like hundreds if not thousands of miles apart. The only time rocks are closely packed together like depicted in space sagas is when they are rings orbiting a planet like Saturn.
However your point still does stand. Reaction is a matter of mental processing/instinct. Surfer flying at c810^x power is going to translate into some type of battle prowess. No way you can instively avoid a flying into ? and not avoid a punch or a speed blitz. Now the way the writers have it, then yea, but thats always been my problem with comic book writers, or having multiple people on a single project too many chiefs not enough indians. Everyone has a different vision.
If surfer can stand in a supernova he can eat a punch. A supernova is nothing but force, a punch is nothing but force, m*a, they operate on the same physics.
To me, i dont always believe that fans should be beholden to what writers and illustrators put on the page. Sometimes fans are smarter than the writing and that intelligence should supersede PIS or CIS, PIS especially.
I say SS takes it because his skill set is that much greater than Supes and he has had much more time wielding power cosmic than supes has being born much less bein a super being. -
Don't get me wrong. I believe Surfer is more powerful than Superman, but I still maintain that under normal conditions Superman has the superior physical capabilities. Yeah Surfer can amp his physical attributes, but he doesn't normally do that in his fights, and he has been overpowered physically by Thor. Most would consider Thor and Superman to be near equals in physical strength and durability.
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when has Thor physically over powered him and did it involve his hammer? Surfer doesn't need to amp his stats to fight Superman and Surfer is easily more durable than Thor
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another thing..most people tend to believe that BRB and Thor are near equals..the Surfer put BRB down with like 3 punches and told him to stay there. no amping involved iirc.
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Warlock ? Smacked Surfer and Thor didn't get ? slapped by Warlock.
Again my stance in these threads is to say you have to have a better argument that A did something to C that B didn't do to C. That's not how it works in comics. Surfer is MORE POWERFUL than SUPES again I say 7/10 but for people that have come in here saying Supes couldn't hurt SURFER thats just not true. If he doesn't then Supes will tank anything else he has. And it comes down to strength for the most part and that Supes wins. That's all I am saying.
Thor is a G. He has tanked comets and astroids sans mjornir. Very rarely does Thor get harmed by something he sees coming. No matter how large. I just disagree, could an argument be made for surfer yes, but he can be harmed by Superman physically. And you can't make that null with the supernova argument because punches have damaged Surfer or knocked him down temporarily.
@jaxn -
I'm not getting this argument. I'm a Surfer fan. It's pretty common knowledge that he's not really a warrior and that he often loses confrontations that he shouldn't because of this. Surfer is powerful, but implying that he always uses his powers at maximum efficiency in combat and constantly operates at an indeterminable level of physical strength and durability is ridiculous.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »I'm not getting this argument. I'm a Surfer fan. It's pretty common knowledge that he's not really a warrior and that he often loses confrontations that he shouldn't because of this. Surfer is powerful, but implying that he always uses his powers at maximum efficiency in combat and constantly operates at an indeterminable level of physical strength and durability is ridiculous.
At the same time to suggest that Superman uses his full strength and speed frequently and uses his powers at maximum efficiency is just as ridiculous. Both hold back ALOT. So in a fight where they hold back, Surfer's innate durability would would allow him to tank Supes hits with ease (even his strongest hits if we're being honest). His energy absorption makes it easy take away Supes's powers without a lot of violence which he seems to be big on as would his mental abilities. And even if he went the energy blasting route, his blasts should put Supes down as well. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »I'm not getting this argument. I'm a Surfer fan. It's pretty common knowledge that he's not really a warrior and that he often loses confrontations that he shouldn't because of this. Surfer is powerful, but implying that he always uses his powers at maximum efficiency in combat and constantly operates at an indeterminable level of physical strength and durability is ridiculous.
I don't argue high end CBR Surfer and I also don't argue high end CBR Superman. You continue to just say things about losing confrontations without naming specifics. I'm curious to know of these confrontations you speak of. It's rare that you'll find any comic book character who uses the power at their disposal as efficiently as possible, including Superman. What isn't up for debate however, is Surfer's durability. He's more durable than Thor and Superman. -
Thor always gets beat up on and bruised regardless if he sees it coming or not. Thor is very durable but his attribute is the ability to take a punishment and keep on going.evoljeanyes wrote: »
Of course Superman can hurt Surfer, but it doesn't come down to just strength in a scenario between two elite top tiers who are in the same bracket physcially, with one having a variety of abilities at his disposalevoljeanyes wrote: »Warlock ? Smacked Surfer and Thor didn't get ? slapped by Warlock.
Again my stance in these threads is to say you have to have a better argument that A did something to C that B didn't do to C. That's not how it works in comics. Surfer is MORE POWERFUL than SUPES again I say 7/10 but for people that have come in here saying Supes couldn't hurt SURFER thats just not true. If he doesn't then Supes will tank anything else he has. And it comes down to strength for the most part and that Supes wins. That's all I am saying.Thor is a G. He has tanked comets and astroids sans mjornir. Very rarely does Thor get harmed by something he sees coming. No matter how large. I just disagree, could an argument be made for surfer yes, but he can be harmed by Superman physically. And you can't make that null with the supernova argument because punches have damaged Surfer or knocked him down temporarily.
@jaxn -
Surfer has lost 80% of his confrontations with Thor. You're asking me when has Thor overpowered Surfer without his hammer. That's a silly question. Thor always has his hammer. It's part of his character. You keep saying that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman. Please provide proof for that. What makes you think that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman in general and in the context of a fight.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »Surfer has lost 80% of his confrontations with Thor. You're asking me when has Thor overpowered Surfer without his hammer. That's a silly question. Thor always has his hammer. It's part of his character. You keep saying that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman. Please provide proof for that. What makes you think that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman in general and in the context of a fight.
well the books show that Surfer is more durable than Thor consistently but you being a Surfer fan should know this. So all of these confrontations of Surfer losing is to Thor? Tell me, were there any circumstances involved in their fights? Because you know in every single confrontation they've had, there has been something else going on other than them just fighting and in most of those times, the Surfer isn't even trying to fight Thor.
Blood and Thunder was a jobfest and everyone jobbed to Thor in there, including Thanos
Thor vs Surfer (Loki) - Surfer was depowered and amped by Loki correct?
Most recent fights between the two have been stalemates..with one wanting to ? and the other wanting to talk..
How is asking if Thor used mjolnir in this context a silly question? You make an argument that Superman can beat Surfer because Thor has..Thor has a weapon tailor made to handle some of the Surfer's abilities..what does Superman have?
Let me ask you, how often do you see the Surfer bruised and bloodied as opposed to Thor? How does Thor look after battling the Hulk as opposed to the Surfer? -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Surfer has lost 80% of his confrontations with Thor. You're asking me when has Thor overpowered Surfer without his hammer. That's a silly question. Thor always has his hammer. It's part of his character. You keep saying that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman. Please provide proof for that. What makes you think that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman in general and in the context of a fight.
well the books show that Surfer is more durable than Thor consistently but you being a Surfer fan should know this. So all of these confrontations of Surfer losing is to Thor? Tell me, were there any circumstances involved in their fights? Because you know in every single confrontation they've had, there has been something else going on other than them just fighting and in most of those times, the Surfer isn't even trying to fight Thor.
Blood and Thunder was a jobfest and everyone jobbed to Thor in there, including Thanos
Thor vs Surfer (Loki) - Surfer was depowered and amped by Loki correct?
Most recent fights between the two have been stalemates..with one wanting to ? and the other wanting to talk..
How is asking if Thor used mjolnir in this context a silly question? You make an argument that Superman can beat Surfer because Thor has..Thor has a weapon tailor made to handle some of the Surfer's abilities..what does Superman have?
Let me ask you, how often do you see the Surfer bruised and bloodied as opposed to Thor? How does Thor look after battling the Hulk as opposed to the Surfer?
Thor beat Surfer like 3 different times in the Blood and Thunder story. Dismissing it as a jobfest doesn't change that fact. And overstating Thanos' ? nose as "jobbing" also doesn't help your case.
In the case with Loki, Surfer was not depowered. His powers were amplified by Loki. Surfer himself states that Thor's hammer should be to much for him to contain and that Loki must be adding to his power. Yet, Surfer still lost.
The more recent fights as you have said have been stalemates. I'm not saying that Thor is a brick and Surfer is a pillow, but I certainly don't see any reason to believe Surfer is above Thor when it comes to raw strength and durability. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Aren't there multiple instances of Surfer dodging laser fire? And we're talking about dodging them, no leading the shooter. That means he has reflexes at least the speed of light. Not to mention that even by comic book standards, anyone that can move at light speeds have to have extremely fast reflexes to in order to avoid crashing into things.
Laser fire doesn't equal light speed; otherwise, Spider-Man has light speed reflexes too.
Your second point makes sense in a real world sense, but outside of the planet search, Surfer really hasn't shown super speed reflexes.
What? You're not dodging laser fire from close range without having reflexes on the order of the speed of light. Again there is a difference between being able to actually dodge lasers after they have been fired and the ability to lead the shooter. Spiderman can do the latter; Surfer can do the former.
And again, Surfer has been shown to fly through asteroid fields at high speeds. Real world or comic book, that is an impressive reaction feat.
No, Spider-Man is capable of dodging laser after they are fired, not just the aim. I'll post scans of this when I get chance, but lasers in most mediums aren't treated as light speed projectiles.
Again, in a real world setting it is ludicrous to separate travel speed and combat speed due to them being products of the same mechanisms, but they are rarely treated that way in comics. If they were, Surfer would never be touched by anyone...ever. After all, we are talking about the same dude who covered a light year in under a second.
From what I recall, some writers have claimed that many characters have access to something called hyper space which allows them to cover vast distances in short times while bipassing astronomical objects. Personally, I liked how movie Surfer simply phased through solid matter. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Aren't there multiple instances of Surfer dodging laser fire? And we're talking about dodging them, no leading the shooter. That means he has reflexes at least the speed of light. Not to mention that even by comic book standards, anyone that can move at light speeds have to have extremely fast reflexes to in order to avoid crashing into things.
Laser fire doesn't equal light speed; otherwise, Spider-Man has light speed reflexes too.
Your second point makes sense in a real world sense, but outside of the planet search, Surfer really hasn't shown super speed reflexes.
What? You're not dodging laser fire from close range without having reflexes on the order of the speed of light. Again there is a difference between being able to actually dodge lasers after they have been fired and the ability to lead the shooter. Spiderman can do the latter; Surfer can do the former.
And again, Surfer has been shown to fly through asteroid fields at high speeds. Real world or comic book, that is an impressive reaction feat.
No, Spider-Man is capable of dodging laser after they are fired, not just the aim. I'll post scans of this when I get chance, but lasers in most mediums aren't treated as light speed projectiles.
Again, in a real world setting it is ludicrous to separate travel speed and combat speed due to them being products of the same mechanisms, but they are rarely treated that way in comics. If they were, Surfer would never be touched by anyone...ever. After all, we are talking about the same dude who covered a light year in under a second.
From what I recall, some writers have claimed that many characters have access to something called hyper space which allows them to cover vast distances in short times while bipassing astronomical objects. Personally, I liked how movie Surfer simply phased through solid matter.
I'd like to see those scans. I can't really comment until I see the context. But remember, Spiderman has the Spider Sense and it operates at all times, so it's impossible for you to distinguish whether he's dodging things after they are fired or based on information given to him prior than the shot by his Spider Sense.
And yeah Surfer has phased through things in the comics too. He's also been shown to evade at high speeds. I'll try to find scans. -
Here are a couple.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Surfer has lost 80% of his confrontations with Thor. You're asking me when has Thor overpowered Surfer without his hammer. That's a silly question. Thor always has his hammer. It's part of his character. You keep saying that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman. Please provide proof for that. What makes you think that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman in general and in the context of a fight.
well the books show that Surfer is more durable than Thor consistently but you being a Surfer fan should know this. So all of these confrontations of Surfer losing is to Thor? Tell me, were there any circumstances involved in their fights? Because you know in every single confrontation they've had, there has been something else going on other than them just fighting and in most of those times, the Surfer isn't even trying to fight Thor.
Blood and Thunder was a jobfest and everyone jobbed to Thor in there, including Thanos
Thor vs Surfer (Loki) - Surfer was depowered and amped by Loki correct?
Most recent fights between the two have been stalemates..with one wanting to ? and the other wanting to talk..
How is asking if Thor used mjolnir in this context a silly question? You make an argument that Superman can beat Surfer because Thor has..Thor has a weapon tailor made to handle some of the Surfer's abilities..what does Superman have?
Let me ask you, how often do you see the Surfer bruised and bloodied as opposed to Thor? How does Thor look after battling the Hulk as opposed to the Surfer?
again, everyone jobbed to Thor in B&T...most folks who actually read comics know this. If you think Thor can just ? Thanos up then you're fooling yourself.Thor beat Surfer like 3 different times in the Blood and Thunder story. Dismissing it as a jobfest doesn't change that fact. And overstating Thanos' ? nose as "jobbing" also doesn't help your case.
no the Surfer was depowered by Galactus. He couldn't even leave Earth. As I originally said, their fights always have extenuating circumstances with one trying to fight and other trying to talkIn the case with Loki, Surfer was not depowered. His powers were amplified by Loki. Surfer himself states that Thor's hammer should be to much for him to contain and that Loki must be adding to his power. Yet, Surfer still lost.The more recent fights as you have said have been stalemates. I'm not saying that Thor is a brick and Surfer is a pillow, but I certainly don't see any reason to believe Surfer is above Thor when it comes to raw strength and durability.
so again, all of these losses you keep speaking of are against Thor? -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Aren't there multiple instances of Surfer dodging laser fire? And we're talking about dodging them, no leading the shooter. That means he has reflexes at least the speed of light. Not to mention that even by comic book standards, anyone that can move at light speeds have to have extremely fast reflexes to in order to avoid crashing into things.
Laser fire doesn't equal light speed; otherwise, Spider-Man has light speed reflexes too.
Your second point makes sense in a real world sense, but outside of the planet search, Surfer really hasn't shown super speed reflexes.
What? You're not dodging laser fire from close range without having reflexes on the order of the speed of light. Again there is a difference between being able to actually dodge lasers after they have been fired and the ability to lead the shooter. Spiderman can do the latter; Surfer can do the former.
And again, Surfer has been shown to fly through asteroid fields at high speeds. Real world or comic book, that is an impressive reaction feat.
No, Spider-Man is capable of dodging laser after they are fired, not just the aim. I'll post scans of this when I get chance, but lasers in most mediums aren't treated as light speed projectiles.
Again, in a real world setting it is ludicrous to separate travel speed and combat speed due to them being products of the same mechanisms, but they are rarely treated that way in comics. If they were, Surfer would never be touched by anyone...ever. After all, we are talking about the same dude who covered a light year in under a second.
From what I recall, some writers have claimed that many characters have access to something called hyper space which allows them to cover vast distances in short times while bipassing astronomical objects. Personally, I liked how movie Surfer simply phased through solid matter.
I liked how he phased through objects as well. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Surfer has lost 80% of his confrontations with Thor. You're asking me when has Thor overpowered Surfer without his hammer. That's a silly question. Thor always has his hammer. It's part of his character. You keep saying that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman. Please provide proof for that. What makes you think that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman in general and in the context of a fight.
well the books show that Surfer is more durable than Thor consistently but you being a Surfer fan should know this. So all of these confrontations of Surfer losing is to Thor? Tell me, were there any circumstances involved in their fights? Because you know in every single confrontation they've had, there has been something else going on other than them just fighting and in most of those times, the Surfer isn't even trying to fight Thor.
Blood and Thunder was a jobfest and everyone jobbed to Thor in there, including Thanos
Thor vs Surfer (Loki) - Surfer was depowered and amped by Loki correct?
Most recent fights between the two have been stalemates..with one wanting to ? and the other wanting to talk..
How is asking if Thor used mjolnir in this context a silly question? You make an argument that Superman can beat Surfer because Thor has..Thor has a weapon tailor made to handle some of the Surfer's abilities..what does Superman have?
Let me ask you, how often do you see the Surfer bruised and bloodied as opposed to Thor? How does Thor look after battling the Hulk as opposed to the Surfer?
again, everyone jobbed to Thor in B&T...most folks who actually read comics know this. If you think Thor can just ? Thanos up then you're fooling yourself.Thor beat Surfer like 3 different times in the Blood and Thunder story. Dismissing it as a jobfest doesn't change that fact. And overstating Thanos' ? nose as "jobbing" also doesn't help your case.
no the Surfer was depowered by Galactus. He couldn't even leave Earth. As I originally said, their fights always have extenuating circumstances with one trying to fight and other trying to talkIn the case with Loki, Surfer was not depowered. His powers were amplified by Loki. Surfer himself states that Thor's hammer should be to much for him to contain and that Loki must be adding to his power. Yet, Surfer still lost.The more recent fights as you have said have been stalemates. I'm not saying that Thor is a brick and Surfer is a pillow, but I certainly don't see any reason to believe Surfer is above Thor when it comes to raw strength and durability.
so again, all of these losses you keep speaking of are against Thor?
Look, we've already been over the examples. If you don't want to accept them that's on you. I've already pointed out that Thor beat Surfer 3 times in the same event. You want to say it doesn't count because it was jobbing. That's not a canon or comic related explanation, but ok.
I gave you the Loki example. You want to say it doesn't count because it wasn't Surfer's own power even though Surfer himself said that the power feeding him was superior to his own and acknowledged that Thor's hammer was superior to his own power. In other words, Surfer was actually stronger than his normal limits and still lost.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Surfer has lost 80% of his confrontations with Thor. You're asking me when has Thor overpowered Surfer without his hammer. That's a silly question. Thor always has his hammer. It's part of his character. You keep saying that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman. Please provide proof for that. What makes you think that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman in general and in the context of a fight.
well the books show that Surfer is more durable than Thor consistently but you being a Surfer fan should know this. So all of these confrontations of Surfer losing is to Thor? Tell me, were there any circumstances involved in their fights? Because you know in every single confrontation they've had, there has been something else going on other than them just fighting and in most of those times, the Surfer isn't even trying to fight Thor.
Blood and Thunder was a jobfest and everyone jobbed to Thor in there, including Thanos
Thor vs Surfer (Loki) - Surfer was depowered and amped by Loki correct?
Most recent fights between the two have been stalemates..with one wanting to ? and the other wanting to talk..
How is asking if Thor used mjolnir in this context a silly question? You make an argument that Superman can beat Surfer because Thor has..Thor has a weapon tailor made to handle some of the Surfer's abilities..what does Superman have?
Let me ask you, how often do you see the Surfer bruised and bloodied as opposed to Thor? How does Thor look after battling the Hulk as opposed to the Surfer?
again, everyone jobbed to Thor in B&T...most folks who actually read comics know this. If you think Thor can just ? Thanos up then you're fooling yourself.Thor beat Surfer like 3 different times in the Blood and Thunder story. Dismissing it as a jobfest doesn't change that fact. And overstating Thanos' ? nose as "jobbing" also doesn't help your case.
no the Surfer was depowered by Galactus. He couldn't even leave Earth. As I originally said, their fights always have extenuating circumstances with one trying to fight and other trying to talkIn the case with Loki, Surfer was not depowered. His powers were amplified by Loki. Surfer himself states that Thor's hammer should be to much for him to contain and that Loki must be adding to his power. Yet, Surfer still lost.The more recent fights as you have said have been stalemates. I'm not saying that Thor is a brick and Surfer is a pillow, but I certainly don't see any reason to believe Surfer is above Thor when it comes to raw strength and durability.
so again, all of these losses you keep speaking of are against Thor?
Look, we've already been over the examples. If you don't want to accept them that's on you. I've already pointed out that Thor beat Surfer 3 times in the same event. You want to say it doesn't count because it was jobbing. That's not a canon or comic related explanation, but ok.
I gave you the Loki example. You want to say it doesn't count because it wasn't Surfer's own power even though Surfer himself said that the power feeding him was superior to his own and acknowledged that Thor's hammer was superior to his own power. In other words, Surfer was actually stronger than his normal limits and still lost.
I never said it didn't count. I said those fights involved extenuating circumstances, which they did. I then asked what other losses you're talking about other than B&T Thor and a Loki example. You haven't provided anything to support your claim. Thor has stated that a warning shot fired at him by the Surfer would've killed him..however i don't use that to discuss their battles. In MOST of their fights, Thor is the aggressor while Surfer is trying to talk. I'm saying the recent battles are stalemates to be fair, but when one opponent is actively trying to ? the other opponent and is unable to even hurt him, that says alot about the other character. If you're using his fights with Thor to come to a conclusion about this particular fight then you're not taking into consideration that Thor has an enchanted mallet custom made to fight against Surfer. Superman doesn't have this luxury. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Surfer has lost 80% of his confrontations with Thor. You're asking me when has Thor overpowered Surfer without his hammer. That's a silly question. Thor always has his hammer. It's part of his character. You keep saying that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman. Please provide proof for that. What makes you think that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman in general and in the context of a fight.
well the books show that Surfer is more durable than Thor consistently but you being a Surfer fan should know this. So all of these confrontations of Surfer losing is to Thor? Tell me, were there any circumstances involved in their fights? Because you know in every single confrontation they've had, there has been something else going on other than them just fighting and in most of those times, the Surfer isn't even trying to fight Thor.
Blood and Thunder was a jobfest and everyone jobbed to Thor in there, including Thanos
Thor vs Surfer (Loki) - Surfer was depowered and amped by Loki correct?
Most recent fights between the two have been stalemates..with one wanting to ? and the other wanting to talk..
How is asking if Thor used mjolnir in this context a silly question? You make an argument that Superman can beat Surfer because Thor has..Thor has a weapon tailor made to handle some of the Surfer's abilities..what does Superman have?
Let me ask you, how often do you see the Surfer bruised and bloodied as opposed to Thor? How does Thor look after battling the Hulk as opposed to the Surfer?
again, everyone jobbed to Thor in B&T...most folks who actually read comics know this. If you think Thor can just ? Thanos up then you're fooling yourself.Thor beat Surfer like 3 different times in the Blood and Thunder story. Dismissing it as a jobfest doesn't change that fact. And overstating Thanos' ? nose as "jobbing" also doesn't help your case.
no the Surfer was depowered by Galactus. He couldn't even leave Earth. As I originally said, their fights always have extenuating circumstances with one trying to fight and other trying to talkIn the case with Loki, Surfer was not depowered. His powers were amplified by Loki. Surfer himself states that Thor's hammer should be to much for him to contain and that Loki must be adding to his power. Yet, Surfer still lost.The more recent fights as you have said have been stalemates. I'm not saying that Thor is a brick and Surfer is a pillow, but I certainly don't see any reason to believe Surfer is above Thor when it comes to raw strength and durability.
so again, all of these losses you keep speaking of are against Thor?
Look, we've already been over the examples. If you don't want to accept them that's on you. I've already pointed out that Thor beat Surfer 3 times in the same event. You want to say it doesn't count because it was jobbing. That's not a canon or comic related explanation, but ok.
I gave you the Loki example. You want to say it doesn't count because it wasn't Surfer's own power even though Surfer himself said that the power feeding him was superior to his own and acknowledged that Thor's hammer was superior to his own power. In other words, Surfer was actually stronger than his normal limits and still lost.
I never said it didn't count. I said those fights involved extenuating circumstances, which they did. I then asked what other losses you're talking about other than B&T Thor and a Loki example. You haven't provided anything to support your claim. Thor has stated that a warning shot fired at him by the Surfer would've killed him..however i don't use that to discuss their battles. In MOST of their fights, Thor is the aggressor while Surfer is trying to talk. I'm saying the recent battles are stalemates to be fair, but when one opponent is actively trying to ? the other opponent and is unable to even hurt him, that says alot about the other character. If you're using his fights with Thor to come to a conclusion about this particular fight then you're not taking into consideration that Thor has an enchanted mallet custom made to fight against Surfer. Superman doesn't have this luxury.
I can only go by the fights they've had. If you're going to look at each fight and say "Oh there is an extenuating circumstance there" then no fight will ever be good enough. There are always extenuating circumstances for something like this. Surfer and Thor are both heroes. So there is always going to have to be something crazy going on for them to fight, and at least one of them will always be hesitant about fighting. That doesn't change the fact that in all the times they have fought they've either stalemated or Thor has battered Surfer. It's a fact. You can keep asking me to provide fights while simultaneously ignoring fights, but that doesn't change reality.
And Thor having an enchanted mallet doesn't mean much. It's not like he has used the finer powers of the hammer in their fights. He pretty much has used it to exclusively to bludgeon Surfer. Thor can probably strike a planet with his hammer and turn it into space rubble. Superman can do the same thing with his fists. When you're talking about people who are basically indestructible, the difference between them striking with their own body parts or with a weapon of some type is minimal.
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Look you brought it up, but then you're only using fights he's had with Thor. If you've read these fights then you'll know there were other elements involved. I can say going by their lastest fights Thor can't even hurt the Surfer but that wouldn't be fair to their continuity. so again i ask, what are these other losses you talked about that he should win but don't?The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Surfer has lost 80% of his confrontations with Thor. You're asking me when has Thor overpowered Surfer without his hammer. That's a silly question. Thor always has his hammer. It's part of his character. You keep saying that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman. Please provide proof for that. What makes you think that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman in general and in the context of a fight.
well the books show that Surfer is more durable than Thor consistently but you being a Surfer fan should know this. So all of these confrontations of Surfer losing is to Thor? Tell me, were there any circumstances involved in their fights? Because you know in every single confrontation they've had, there has been something else going on other than them just fighting and in most of those times, the Surfer isn't even trying to fight Thor.
Blood and Thunder was a jobfest and everyone jobbed to Thor in there, including Thanos
Thor vs Surfer (Loki) - Surfer was depowered and amped by Loki correct?
Most recent fights between the two have been stalemates..with one wanting to ? and the other wanting to talk..
How is asking if Thor used mjolnir in this context a silly question? You make an argument that Superman can beat Surfer because Thor has..Thor has a weapon tailor made to handle some of the Surfer's abilities..what does Superman have?
Let me ask you, how often do you see the Surfer bruised and bloodied as opposed to Thor? How does Thor look after battling the Hulk as opposed to the Surfer?
again, everyone jobbed to Thor in B&T...most folks who actually read comics know this. If you think Thor can just ? Thanos up then you're fooling yourself.Thor beat Surfer like 3 different times in the Blood and Thunder story. Dismissing it as a jobfest doesn't change that fact. And overstating Thanos' ? nose as "jobbing" also doesn't help your case.
no the Surfer was depowered by Galactus. He couldn't even leave Earth. As I originally said, their fights always have extenuating circumstances with one trying to fight and other trying to talkIn the case with Loki, Surfer was not depowered. His powers were amplified by Loki. Surfer himself states that Thor's hammer should be to much for him to contain and that Loki must be adding to his power. Yet, Surfer still lost.The more recent fights as you have said have been stalemates. I'm not saying that Thor is a brick and Surfer is a pillow, but I certainly don't see any reason to believe Surfer is above Thor when it comes to raw strength and durability.
so again, all of these losses you keep speaking of are against Thor?
Look, we've already been over the examples. If you don't want to accept them that's on you. I've already pointed out that Thor beat Surfer 3 times in the same event. You want to say it doesn't count because it was jobbing. That's not a canon or comic related explanation, but ok.
I gave you the Loki example. You want to say it doesn't count because it wasn't Surfer's own power even though Surfer himself said that the power feeding him was superior to his own and acknowledged that Thor's hammer was superior to his own power. In other words, Surfer was actually stronger than his normal limits and still lost.
I never said it didn't count. I said those fights involved extenuating circumstances, which they did. I then asked what other losses you're talking about other than B&T Thor and a Loki example. You haven't provided anything to support your claim. Thor has stated that a warning shot fired at him by the Surfer would've killed him..however i don't use that to discuss their battles. In MOST of their fights, Thor is the aggressor while Surfer is trying to talk. I'm saying the recent battles are stalemates to be fair, but when one opponent is actively trying to ? the other opponent and is unable to even hurt him, that says alot about the other character. If you're using his fights with Thor to come to a conclusion about this particular fight then you're not taking into consideration that Thor has an enchanted mallet custom made to fight against Surfer. Superman doesn't have this luxury.
I can only go by the fights they've had. If you're going to look at each fight and say "Oh there is an extenuating circumstance there" then no fight will ever be good enough. There are always extenuating circumstances for something like this. Surfer and Thor are both heroes. So there is always going to have to be something crazy going on for them to fight, and at least one of them will always be hesitant about fighting. That doesn't change the fact that in all the times they have fought they've either stalemated or Thor has battered Surfer. It's a fact. You can keep asking me to provide fights while simultaneously ignoring fights, but that doesn't change reality.
oh word? His hammer didn't mean much? i take it you're familiar with the hammer right?And Thor having an enchanted mallet doesn't mean much. It's not like he has used the finer powers of the hammer in their fights. He pretty much has used it to exclusively to bludgeon Surfer.
so are you claiming that Superman punches as hard as Mjolnir?Thor can probably strike a planet with his hammer and turn it into space rubble. Superman can do the same thing with his fists.When you're talking about people who are basically indestructible, the difference between them striking with their own body parts or with a weapon of some type is minimal.
yeah i guess you can say that if we're talking about some average hammer he picked up at Lowes, but of course we both know that's not the case. -
Look you brought it up, but then you're only using fights he's had with Thor. If you've read these fights then you'll know there were other elements involved. I can say going by their lastest fights Thor can't even hurt the Surfer but that wouldn't be fair to their continuity. so again i ask, what are these other losses you talked about that he should win but don't?The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Surfer has lost 80% of his confrontations with Thor. You're asking me when has Thor overpowered Surfer without his hammer. That's a silly question. Thor always has his hammer. It's part of his character. You keep saying that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman. Please provide proof for that. What makes you think that Surfer is more durable than Thor and Superman in general and in the context of a fight.
well the books show that Surfer is more durable than Thor consistently but you being a Surfer fan should know this. So all of these confrontations of Surfer losing is to Thor? Tell me, were there any circumstances involved in their fights? Because you know in every single confrontation they've had, there has been something else going on other than them just fighting and in most of those times, the Surfer isn't even trying to fight Thor.
Blood and Thunder was a jobfest and everyone jobbed to Thor in there, including Thanos
Thor vs Surfer (Loki) - Surfer was depowered and amped by Loki correct?
Most recent fights between the two have been stalemates..with one wanting to ? and the other wanting to talk..
How is asking if Thor used mjolnir in this context a silly question? You make an argument that Superman can beat Surfer because Thor has..Thor has a weapon tailor made to handle some of the Surfer's abilities..what does Superman have?
Let me ask you, how often do you see the Surfer bruised and bloodied as opposed to Thor? How does Thor look after battling the Hulk as opposed to the Surfer?
again, everyone jobbed to Thor in B&T...most folks who actually read comics know this. If you think Thor can just ? Thanos up then you're fooling yourself.Thor beat Surfer like 3 different times in the Blood and Thunder story. Dismissing it as a jobfest doesn't change that fact. And overstating Thanos' ? nose as "jobbing" also doesn't help your case.
no the Surfer was depowered by Galactus. He couldn't even leave Earth. As I originally said, their fights always have extenuating circumstances with one trying to fight and other trying to talkIn the case with Loki, Surfer was not depowered. His powers were amplified by Loki. Surfer himself states that Thor's hammer should be to much for him to contain and that Loki must be adding to his power. Yet, Surfer still lost.The more recent fights as you have said have been stalemates. I'm not saying that Thor is a brick and Surfer is a pillow, but I certainly don't see any reason to believe Surfer is above Thor when it comes to raw strength and durability.
so again, all of these losses you keep speaking of are against Thor?
Look, we've already been over the examples. If you don't want to accept them that's on you. I've already pointed out that Thor beat Surfer 3 times in the same event. You want to say it doesn't count because it was jobbing. That's not a canon or comic related explanation, but ok.
I gave you the Loki example. You want to say it doesn't count because it wasn't Surfer's own power even though Surfer himself said that the power feeding him was superior to his own and acknowledged that Thor's hammer was superior to his own power. In other words, Surfer was actually stronger than his normal limits and still lost.
I never said it didn't count. I said those fights involved extenuating circumstances, which they did. I then asked what other losses you're talking about other than B&T Thor and a Loki example. You haven't provided anything to support your claim. Thor has stated that a warning shot fired at him by the Surfer would've killed him..however i don't use that to discuss their battles. In MOST of their fights, Thor is the aggressor while Surfer is trying to talk. I'm saying the recent battles are stalemates to be fair, but when one opponent is actively trying to ? the other opponent and is unable to even hurt him, that says alot about the other character. If you're using his fights with Thor to come to a conclusion about this particular fight then you're not taking into consideration that Thor has an enchanted mallet custom made to fight against Surfer. Superman doesn't have this luxury.
I can only go by the fights they've had. If you're going to look at each fight and say "Oh there is an extenuating circumstance there" then no fight will ever be good enough. There are always extenuating circumstances for something like this. Surfer and Thor are both heroes. So there is always going to have to be something crazy going on for them to fight, and at least one of them will always be hesitant about fighting. That doesn't change the fact that in all the times they have fought they've either stalemated or Thor has battered Surfer. It's a fact. You can keep asking me to provide fights while simultaneously ignoring fights, but that doesn't change reality.
oh word? His hammer didn't mean much? i take it you're familiar with the hammer right?And Thor having an enchanted mallet doesn't mean much. It's not like he has used the finer powers of the hammer in their fights. He pretty much has used it to exclusively to bludgeon Surfer.
so are you claiming that Superman punches as hard as Mjolnir?Thor can probably strike a planet with his hammer and turn it into space rubble. Superman can do the same thing with his fists.When you're talking about people who are basically indestructible, the difference between them striking with their own body parts or with a weapon of some type is minimal.
yeah i guess you can say that if we're talking about some average hammer he picked up at Lowes, but of course we both know that's not the case.
I'm not understanding the point you're trying to make. My point was that Surfer can be beaten by people who appear to be more brute force oriented like Thor and Surfer. I pointed out that Surfer has been beaten in just such a manner by Thor in the past. That's a fact. You want to come in here and harp on extenuating circumstances. That's silly IMO. Pretty much all comic fights have extenuating circumstances. The fact of the matter is that Surfer has been beaten numerous times by Thor with just brute force. So it's reasonable to believe that Superman, someone who at times seems outright unbeatable and impervious to damage can do the same.
And yes I believe that Superman can punch has hard as Thor can strike with Mjolnir. Do you have some proof that he can't? Do you have some feat of striking force that Thor has shown with Mjolnir that Superman has been proven to be incapable of? Mjolnir is powerful because it has a ton of Thor's own power locked into it. Yes, it is more powerful than any normal hammer, but most of that power has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. We're not talking about how he can use it to absorb energy or cast spells or control the weather. We're simply talking about Thor using it to beat on Surfer with. Yes it's enchanted to be very hard to break, but you know what else is very hard to break? Superman's fists. So there really is no advantage there.
