As a christian, is there a such thing as putting too much emphasis on christ?
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supaman4321 wrote: »how does that analogy work then? How can one's purpose be different from their agenda are the words not correlated? Another reason why this doesn't make sense to me is because they may have different forms but they're all the same chemically, water, ice, and steam are all liquid. I would see the point if water was a liquid, ice was dry, and steam was acidic but the case could be made that they were all the same but it can't because it's impossible.
I read a quote somewhere i can't remember where but a man was trying to describe the trinity and he saw three of the same car being driven by three different men on the road and he claimed that was a perfect example but the man he was explaining it to corrected him and told him that you would need three DIFFERENT cars being simultaneously driven by the same man which would be the correct analogy. Holla at me when you see that.
? couldnt die for the sins of the world.. but Jesus could, he is the savior
? is the creator of all things (not Jesus)
The holy sprint is the word of ? (bible)
These three beings serve a different purposes with the same agenda to save the people in the world...
ie... ya breaks, gas pedal, steering wheel are all served for a different perpose but the same agenda (which is to allow you to drive that car) -
..........?
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PUPU_IZ_DRO wrote: »i'll explain it like this...
Water - ?
ice - jesus
steam - holy sprit
they are the same, but different types/forms of the same thing of course..
All with different purposes but same agenda.
But jesus himself, does not know when the world will end.. Only ?
jesus also that that noone is good but the father...
But jesus also said that him and the father are one... Hince my example
Soooo u just explian that there is seperation, yet there is still Coninuty, which is basiocly they idea in the Trinty..........What u jsut explained actually gives Validation to the "WHole" Trinity Idea.............? in Three person............Personally, If u read the stories, pay attention to the themes I believe that His Goal was to bring Humanity Closer to the Father..........it wasnt to bring Glory to himself, that y he would seeming Defer that, But When somebody "Realized" who he was, he acknowleged them
I alwasy Like to get differnet perspectives on this though............. -
PUPU_IZ_DRO wrote: »i'll explain it like this...
Water - ?
ice - jesus
steam - holy sprit
they are the same, but different types/forms of the same thing of course..
All with different purposes but same agenda.
But jesus himself, does not know when the world will end.. Only ?
jesus also that that noone is good but the father...
But jesus also said that him and the father are one... Hince my example
............. -
Soooo u just explian that there is seperation, yet there is still Coninuty, which is basiocly they idea in the Trinty..........What u jsut explained actually gives Validation to the "WHole" Trinity Idea.............? in Three person............Personally, If u read the stories, pay attention to the themes I believe that His Goal was to bring Humanity Closer to the Father..........it wasnt to bring Glory to himself, that y he would seeming Defer that, But When somebody "Realized" who he was, he acknowleged them
I alwasy Like to get differnet perspectives on this though.............
Yes, that was the purpose of Jesus... he is the savior, he wants us 2 live forever, not perish... ? is in Jesus thats why people say they are one, but at the same time, ? left Jesus for a moment so that he could die "father why have you forsaken me".... -
I think the Baha'i way of looking at the prophets of ? is best (this includes Yeshua (PBUH))
... ? is likened to the sun because He is the unique source of life in the universe in the same way that the physical sun is the unique source of all physical life on earth. The spirit and attributes of ? are the rays of this sun and the individual Manifestation is like a perfect mirror. If there are several mirrors all turned toward the same sun, that unique sun is reflected in each mirror. Yet the individual mirrors are different, each having been made in its own form and distinct from any other.
In the same way, each Prophet is a distinct individual being, but the spirit and attributes of ? reflected in Each are the same. If you point a mirror at the sun, and you see the image of the sun, you do not mistake it for being the actual sun, only a reflection of it. This is how best to explain ? 's prophets: A mirror reflection of ? in man, but still only a reflection. -
To me John 5:22-23 illustrates the fact that the Father and the Son are not the same entity but are linked. You cant act like Yeshua is the only person in the Bible called a Son of ? .
Ex. 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel [is] my son, [even] my firstborn:
This implies the title of Son being applied to a nation. The specific term firstborn implies that Israel is not the only son. To identify a firstborn son, there has to be a second and son and so forth.
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What about this? (please don't ignore)
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty ? , The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. Isaiah 9:6-7
Are you going to tell me this refers to Israel as a nation too? using such terminology as Prince of Peace and everlasting Father....... it would be a tough sale yahmean.
PEACE -
The True Flesh wrote: »What about this? (please don't ignore)
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty ? , The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. Isaiah 9:6-7
Are you going to tell me this refers to Israel as a nation too? using such terminology as Prince of Peace and everlasting Father....... it would be a tough sale yahmean.
PEACE
Who is the "us"? Christianity didn't exist in the days of Isaiah and I dont think he was to shy about naming names.Also, the word "son" does not neccesarily refer to an individual.http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria="son"&t=KJV&page=49
Neither does "child' http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3206&t=KJV
The Bible also says the "the scepter shall never pass from Judah". Sounds more like someone sent to regather israel than what folks try to paint Yeshua to be. However one interprets the verses you provided it still doesn't negate the fact that there would never be just one singular Messiah (anointed personage). Also, it does not change the fact that salvation is not of man. Yeshua, like many anointed personages before and after were under direct command of the Most High, but at the end of the day there is but one Creator. -
PUPU_IZ_DRO wrote: »? couldnt die for the sins of the world.. but Jesus could, he is the savior
? is the creator of all things (not Jesus)
The holy sprint is the word of ? (bible)
These three beings serve a different purposes with the same agenda to save the people in the world...
ie... ya breaks, gas pedal, steering wheel are all served for a different perpose but the same agenda (which is to allow you to drive that car)
If everything was supposedly created through Jesus wouldn't he be the creator or at least co-creator of all things as well though? The car analogy doesn't work because there are just way too many pieces to try to account for, Who's the engine in this tryst? Muffler? Wheels? Rims? You can't try to explain the trinity with something you could see in nature because...it isn't natural. Also I would think that let's say a steering wheel wouldn't have an "agenda" as the word is defined but it does have a purpose which would be like you stated to allow the car to be driven. But then you run into things that have purposes but aren't necessary or vital like take a muffler for example, we've all heard a car with no muffler then may be loud but doesn't stop the car from accelerating or stopping so how would that fit into the analogy?
I also like how you completely disregarded the way I told you the analogy would need to be for it to be applicable to a trinity, that's because you'll NEVER see one man driving three cars simultaneously, there's just no logical way to explain it i don't feel but to each his own. -
Who is the "us"? Christianity didn't exist in the days of Isaiah and I dont think he was to shy about naming names.Also, the word "son" does not neccesarily refer to an individual.http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria="son"&t=KJV&page=49
Neither does "child' http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3206&t=KJV
The Bible also says the "the scepter shall never pass from Judah". Sounds more like someone sent to regather israel than what folks try to paint Yeshua to be. However one interprets the verses you provided it still doesn't negate the fact that there would never be just one singular Messiah (anointed personage). Also, it does not change the fact that salvation is not of man. Yeshua, like many anointed personages before and after were under direct command of the Most High, but at the end of the day there is but one Creator.
Way to dance around the question. You dissected the use of the words "us" and "child" but not the specific ones that I cited that point to this being an individual ie: everlasting Father and Prince of Peace.
The part about establishing it with judgement and justice HENCEFORTH EVEN FOR EVER.......sounds like a "singular" Messiah to me.
PEACE -
The True Flesh wrote: »Way to dance around the question. You dissected the use of the words "us" and "child" but not the specific ones that I cited that point to this being an individual ie: everlasting Father and Prince of Peace.
The part about establishing it with judgement and justice HENCEFORTH EVEN FOR EVER.......sounds like a "singular" Messiah to me.
PEACE
Not dancing at all. But to make it more plain, theres no proof that these epithets refer to Yeshua and if they do it doesn't support certain manmade doctrines/interpretations such as the trinity or an anointed personage being the totality of the Most High. Just not enough there in those verses or any other works of a bonafide prophet to support that. Either way I'm safe. I dont reject any of the teachings attributed to Yeshua that are in line with the Law and the Testimony. Nothing in the scriptures that even remotely suggests that calling on YHWH is wrong but there is plenty there that calls certain dogmas and traditions of modern Christianity into question. The focal point for me is that the wages of sin are death. Grace can be a buffer zone to prevent instantaneous death but grace is not an abdication of personal responsibility.
Oh, i just thought of something on the "Everlasting Father" tip....
Matt. 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
You cant really make that fit with Isaiah 9. That'd be a mighty reach. -
theres no proof that these epithets refer to Yeshua and if they do it doesn't support certain manmade doctrines/interpretations such as the trinity or an anointed personage being the totality of the Most High.
Lukewarm^^^^^
Either way I'm safe.
^^^^^Totally a matter of personal opinion and irrelevant to the discussion
I dont reject any of the teachings attributed to Yeshua that are in line with the Law and the Testimony. Nothing in the scriptures that even remotely suggests that calling on YHWH is wrong but there is plenty there that calls certain dogmas and traditions of modern Christianity into question. The focal point for me is that the wages of sin are death. Grace can be a buffer zone to prevent instantaneous death but grace is not an abdication of personal responsibility.
I follow the Bible not traditions of modern anything^^^^^^^
.......and as far as abdication of personal responsibility, you must be getting this confused with a discussion you had with somebody else, because I never even loosely suggested anything like that.
Oh, i just thought of something on the "Everlasting Father" tip....
Matt. 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
You cant really make that fit with Isaiah 9. That'd be a mighty reach.
A mighty reach is right^^^^^^^
Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:56-58
How do you explain Yeshua saying this^^^^^^^
PEACE -
The True Flesh wrote: »Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:56-58
How do you explain Yeshua saying this^^^^^^^
PEACE
The second Adam. In the image of YHWH Elohim. The old prototype rebooted without the previous glitches. -
the second adam. In the image of yhwh elohim. The old prototype rebooted without the previous glitches.
ayy treach from naught by nature, are u muslim? -
PUPU_IZ_DRO wrote: »ayy treach from naught by nature, are u muslim?
Damn..LOL...Do I really look that much like Treach? LMBAO!!!
But to answer your question.. no.
Why do you ask, o ye random insulter? -
damn..lol...do i really look that much like treach? Lmbao!!!
But to answer your question.. No.
Why do you ask, o ye random insulter?
just askin, look like you got the kufi on... What is your religion/who's teachings do you follow? -
Damn..LOL...Do I really look that much like Treach? LMBAO!!!
ennhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?!?!? -
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PUPU_IZ_DRO wrote: »just askin, look like you got the kufi on... What is your religion/who's teachings do you follow?
No religion. Im an African Hebrew Israelite. -
ennhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?!?!?
LOL! Youre as cold as ice....LOL...I cant even say nothing...Damn.. -
lol! Youre as cold as ice....lol...i cant even say nothing...damn..
hahahaha ayyye... Yall twins 4 real.. Hahaha -
PUPU_IZ_DRO wrote: »Meaning...
In church, speaking to ones self, praying, etc.. Christians call out on jesus for everything, more so than they do ? ...
? is to be worshipped and not jesus, right or wrong?
Yes jesus is the savior but ? is the creator and i know that you cant get to ? w/o going through
jesus.
So with that being said, is it a sin or bad to; how can i say this... Replace christ with ? ?
Jesus can be 'worshiped' (Mat 8:2; 9:18; 14:33 and 15:25). -
konceptjones wrote: »and that's where you ? up.
I'm not a Muslim in any way, shape or form.
I simply state historic fact. You have no facts to back you up and, like a typical Christian, when they're presented to you (everything I said can be researched and verified), all you do is say "well... I believe..."
That's nice... You believe... How about believing the TRUTH.
Truth: Yeshua(PBUH) was a Jew. He lived his life as a Jew, he prayed as a Jew, he died a Jew.
Truth: Christians ignore this fact about Yeshua(PBUH) and concoct every excuse under the sun to NOT follow his teachings unless it happens to fit their lifestyle.
Truth: The vast majority of the New Testament was written by a man that had a vested interest in the destruction of the Christian church. Yet you follow this man's teachings even though they completely usurp the teachings of Yeshua(PBUH) given to us while he was alive.
The Jew, Muslim, and Baha'i know of the corruption of the Christian Bible and try to persuade the Christian to follow that which has not been corrupted my man's hand. The Christian refuses and continues to place himself further from ? 's grace.
1.) I disagree. When Jesus started his ministry, he was not a practicing Jew.
2.) What is the history on the supposed conflict between Jesus, Paul, and the Christian church? -
kids in america_ wrote: »1.) I disagree. When Jesus started his ministry, he was not a practicing Jew.
2.) What is the history on the supposed conflict between Jesus, Paul, and the Christian church?
1) Agreed. Judaism did not exist at that time
2) Ummmm...the New Testament perhaps? -
kids in america_ wrote: »Jesus can be 'worshiped' (Mat 8:2; 9:18; 14:33 and 15:25).
Mat 8:2 - NOT BEING WORSHIPPED IN THIS VERSE, ONLY BEING SHOWED RESPECT
9:18 - SAME THING, THEY ARE NOT WORSHIPPIN JESUS, THEY RECOGNIZE HIM FOR WHO HE IS BUT THEY ARE NOT WORSHIPPIN HIM, ONLY ASKIN FOR A DEED OR FAVOR
14:33 - YES, THEY DID FALL TO THEIR KNEES AND WORSHIP JESUS SAYING HE IS THE SON OF ? ...
15:25 - SAME AS THE 1ST TWO
