Christians are arrogant as ? .
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1.? is not limited by any kind of time time is the passage of things , movement in sequence is time. but ? does not need to move. he does not need to think he just does and has done. besides ? has no cause nothing preceded him. he was and is.
2. You keep asking the same question and i keep answering them you are not paying attention , i already told you ? 's thoughts if you can call them that are are not locked in sequence. HE CAN HAVE TRILLIONS OF THOUGHTS AT THE SAME TIME. and these only came into what we would call sequence after creation of time for us.
1. If ? does not think or act then he is not a conscious being.
2. If he had trillions of thoughts simutaneously, compounded into one huge complex thought, this initial big thought was not done with any deliberation beforehand therefore it is not really a "thought", and in combination with point (1.), not a thought committed by any conscious being
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These articles do not help your argument none of them relate to the creation of the universe. They only describe some of it's rules AND IT SOUNDS A LOT LIKE THIS.
GENESIS : 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of ? was hovering over the waters.
They don't seem to relate to the creation of the universe, to you, because as I stated earlier, you don't understand quantum physics. If you did, you would be able to tell me why you don't agree with quantum physics other than your clear cut unreasonable opinion that it's "? "; You have blatantly avoided that question:Roots Oceanic wrote: »Explain to my why the universe could not begin to exist as a result of a quantum vacuum fluctuation?
Explain to me how what you read has any correlation to that Bible verse or, really, to the creation story in the bible as a whole.
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Roots Oceanic wrote: »These articles do not help your argument none of them relate to the creation of the universe. They only describe some of it's rules AND IT SOUNDS A LOT LIKE THIS.
GENESIS : 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of ? was hovering over the waters.
They don't seem to relate to the creation of the universe, to you, because as I stated earlier, you don't understand quantum physics. If you did, you would be able to tell me why you don't agree with quantum physics other than your clear cut unreasonable opinion that it's "? "; You have blatantly avoided that question:Roots Oceanic wrote: »Explain to my why the universe could not begin to exist as a result of a quantum vacuum fluctuation?
Explain to me how what you read has any correlation to that Bible verse or really, to the creation story in the bible as a whole.
I TOLD YOU THAT THERE ARE TOO MANY INTERPRETATION OF QUANTUM PHYSICS SO MANY THAT THERE IS NO STABLE ANSWER FOR MANY OF THE QUESTIONS IT CREATES. ALL THE ARTICELS YOU posted, none of them prove that existence had a cause before science says it did. i told you this many posts ago -
There are a lot of interpretations of the Bible too, but I'm able to tell you in detail why I believe that the ? theory is false.
You have yet to tell me why you think quantum physics is false. But I'm waiting. -
Roots Oceanic wrote: »No you did not. If you did, you weren't talking to me
yes i did go back and read it. respect me and pay close attention to what i write then you will understand me also stop making these wild leaps in logic.
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There are a lot of interpretations of the Bible too, but I'm able to tell you in detail why I believe that the ? theory is false.
You have yet to tell me why you think quantum physics is false. But I'm waiting.
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Roots Oceanic wrote: »No you did not. If you did, you weren't talking to me
yes i did go back and read it. respect me and pay close attention to what i write then you will understand me also stop making these wild leaps in logic.
That quote was to your o.g. post before you edited it.
I'm paying attention to you and you haven't answered my question yet. If you did, quote yourself and give me the page number or something. We just recently started getting into quantum physics. Before this, all you did was scream that it's ? and nonsensical. But I want you now to explain why you think so. -
Roots Oceanic wrote: »1.? is not limited by any kind of time time is the passage of things , movement in sequence is time. but ? does not need to move. he does not need to think he just does and has done. besides ? has no cause nothing preceded him. he was and is.
2. You keep asking the same question and i keep answering them you are not paying attention , i already told you ? 's thoughts if you can call them that are are not locked in sequence. HE CAN HAVE TRILLIONS OF THOUGHTS AT THE SAME TIME. and these only came into what we would call sequence after creation of time for us.
1. If ? does not think or act then he is not a conscious being.
2. If he had trillions of thoughts simutaneously, compounded into one huge complex thought, this initial big thought was not done with any deliberation beforehand therefore it is not really a "thought", and in combination with point (1.), not a thought committed by any conscious being
? is no sought of thinking being in anyway that our limited minds could comprehend or describe, many of mans so called thoughts have no deliberation before hand does this mean i am not conscious. -
Roots Oceanic wrote: »There are a lot of interpretations of the Bible too, but I'm able to tell you in detail why I believe that the ? theory is false.
You have yet to tell me why you think quantum physics is false. But I'm waiting.
I have told you already but let me do it again : Quantum theory IS SCIENCE there are solid scientific facts that may come out of quantum theory but QUANTUM THEORY AS IT RELATES TO THE CREATION ( OR A BETTER WORD WOULD BE THE ORIGIN) OF THE UNIVERSE IS ? . BECAUSE QUANTUM THEORY focused on that question is called m-theory. M-theory basically proposes that there are up to 11 or more dimensions that exist in a kind of wave and that when these waves crash into each other a universe is born. This is ? becuase we do not know nor can we prove that any of these dimensions exist and even if we could we do not understand how they interact with each other. so to use this area of quantum theory to explain the origin of the universe is ? . it can only be proved using math and they have not even finished doing that yet ? no math is not always the true you can make a mathematical model that explains all kinds of ? . that does not mean that the ? really existed out side of the math.
There can be as many interpretations of the bible as there are people religion is the search for deeper understanding of ones place in creation not for fact. -
Roots Oceanic wrote: »Roots Oceanic wrote: »No you did not. If you did, you weren't talking to me
yes i did go back and read it. respect me and pay close attention to what i write then you will understand me also stop making these wild leaps in logic.
That quote was to your o.g. post before you edited it.
I'm paying attention to you and you haven't answered my question yet. If you did, quote yourself and give me the page number or something. We just recently started getting into quantum physics. Before this, all you did was scream that it's ? and nonsensical. But I want you now to explain why you think so.
Quantum theory is only ? in the way you are using it, as it is no answer to where creation came from. you use it as a proof that existence is eternal you can say that you don't but clearly you do, the whole natural cause thing you went on about even though the most reliable science states that all in creation had one singular start point. and that there was nothing we can prove before it. -
? is no sought of thinking being in anyway that our limited minds could comprehend or describe, many of mans so called thoughts have no deliberation before hand does this mean i am not conscious.
I don't think you want to make the claim that ? doesn't plan or make careful considerations before he acts. That would mean that there was no will, intention or purpose, meaning creation was an act without prior thought.
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Roots Oceanic wrote: »There are a lot of interpretations of the Bible too, but I'm able to tell you in detail why I believe that the ? theory is false.
You have yet to tell me why you think quantum physics is false. But I'm waiting.
I have told you already but let me do it again : Quantum theory IS SCIENCE there are solid scientific facts that may come out of quantum theory but QUANTUM THEORY AS IT RELATES TO THE CREATION ( OR A BETTER WORD WOULD BE THE ORIGIN) OF THE UNIVERSE IS ? . BECAUSE QUANTUM THEORY focused on that question is called m-theory. M-theory basically proposes that there are up to 11 or more dimensions that exist in a kind of wave and that when these waves crash into each other a universe is born. This is ? becuase we do not know nor can we prove that any of these dimensions exist and even if we could we do not understand how they interact with each other. so to use this area of quantum theory to explain the origin of the universe is ? . it can only be proved using math and they have not even finished doing that yet ? no math is not always the true you can make a mathematical model that explains all kinds of ? . that does not mean that the ? really existed out side of the math.
There can be as many interpretations of the bible as there are people religion is the search for deeper understanding of ones place in creation not for fact.
M-theory is an expansion of string theory, which is a theory proposed for quantum mechanics and g.r. to be able to co-exist. So m-theory and string theory are both detachable from quantum physics.
Also, you claim that we cannot prove these theories by direct observation yet they are mathematically consistent; we have neither mathematics nor direct observation to prove your ? theory. -
Roots Oceanic wrote: »? is no sought of thinking being in anyway that our limited minds could comprehend or describe, many of mans so called thoughts have no deliberation before hand does this mean i am not conscious.
I don't think you want to make the claim that ? doesn't plan or make careful considerations before he acts. That would mean that there was no will, intention or purpose, meaning creation was an act without prior thought.
It could be that ? said create and all things came into existence and then chose to make a plan. IT COULD be that ? has a kind of unconscious mind that just creates and then his conscious minds makes a plan. I don't know nor can i ever know how the mind of ? works, i thought this would be evident by the first sentence in my post. -
Roots Oceanic wrote: »Roots Oceanic wrote: »There are a lot of interpretations of the Bible too, but I'm able to tell you in detail why I believe that the ? theory is false.
You have yet to tell me why you think quantum physics is false. But I'm waiting.
I have told you already but let me do it again : Quantum theory IS SCIENCE there are solid scientific facts that may come out of quantum theory but QUANTUM THEORY AS IT RELATES TO THE CREATION ( OR A BETTER WORD WOULD BE THE ORIGIN) OF THE UNIVERSE IS ? . BECAUSE QUANTUM THEORY focused on that question is called m-theory. M-theory basically proposes that there are up to 11 or more dimensions that exist in a kind of wave and that when these waves crash into each other a universe is born. This is ? becuase we do not know nor can we prove that any of these dimensions exist and even if we could we do not understand how they interact with each other. so to use this area of quantum theory to explain the origin of the universe is ? . it can only be proved using math and they have not even finished doing that yet ? no math is not always the true you can make a mathematical model that explains all kinds of ? . that does not mean that the ? really existed out side of the math.
There can be as many interpretations of the bible as there are people religion is the search for deeper understanding of ones place in creation not for fact.
M-theory is an expansion of string theory, which is a theory proposed for quantum mechanics and g.r. to be able to co-exist. So m-theory and string theory are both detachable from quantum physics.
Also, you claim that we cannot prove these theories by direct observation yet they are mathematically consistent; we have neither mathematics nor direct observation to prove your ? theory.
M-theory is quantum theory applied to the creation of the universe you cannot pull them apart there is no m-theory without qunatum theory, m-theory is a subset of it. people are looking for a combination of G.R AND SOME KIND OF STRING THEORY THIS WOULD BE A unified theory but we have not found it yet and we for sure have not proved it yet. who told you i am trying to prove ? with math ? i never said that in fact if you pay attention i said many times that the human mind cannot describe ? and i told you why. -
Roots Oceanic wrote: »? is no sought of thinking being in anyway that our limited minds could comprehend or describe, many of mans so called thoughts have no deliberation before hand does this mean i am not conscious.
I don't think you want to make the claim that ? doesn't plan or make careful considerations before he acts. That would mean that there was no will, intention or purpose, meaning creation was an act without prior thought.
It could be that ? said create and all things came into existence and then chose to make a plan. IT COULD be that ? has a kind of unconscious mind that just creates and then his conscious minds makes a plan. I don't know nor can i ever know how the mind of ? works, i thought this would be evident by the first sentence in my post.
why would ? say create if there was no prior intention placed before the word or thought that actually creates? For you to even say "create" with intention of creation, there has to be some will, plan, and all-around thought beforehand.
But you're right: You don't know. You're only guessing. -
there is no m-theory without qunatum theory, m-theory is a subset of it.
Correct, and Quantum physics exists whether M theory works or not. -
who told you i am trying to prove ? with math ?
No one, I'm just saying that with your theory, there is no math or direct observation to prove it. It is only guess work and speculation; superstition.
Quantum physics is at least backed up by mathematics. -
Roots Oceanic wrote: »
yes but m-theory is quantum physics applied to the creation of the universe in other words it is the creation of existence explained by quantum physics. If you take quantum physics out side of that context then you cannot answer your question, OR YOU CANNOT USE QUANTUM PHYSICS AS A GROUND TO STAND ON because it does not answer how the universe started or why it would only describe one possible interpretation of current quantum data.
That is why science is looking for a way to complete m-theory and unite it with g.r. this refers to just the math working correctly. proving it is a whole other problem. -
Roots Oceanic wrote: »
math does not always reflect the reality just ask any crooked accountant. -
Roots Oceanic wrote: »
yes but m-theory is quantum physics applied to the creation of the universe in other words it is the creation of existence explained by quantum physics. If you take quantum physics out side of that context then you cannot answer your question, OR YOU CANNOT USE QUANTUM PHYSICS AS A GROUND TO STAND ON because it does not answer how the universe started or why it would only describe one possible interpretation of current quantum data.
That is why science is looking for a way to complete m-theory and unite it with g.r. this refers to just the math working correctly. proving it is a whole other problem.
M theory is an attempt to reconcile quantum mechanics and general relativity.
With the application of quantum physics, you can explain the universe by way of a natural cause: a quantum vacuum fluctuation.
And you still haven't answered my question: what makes you think the universe did not come about by way of vacuum fluctuations? That question leads us back to the articles I posted which you claimed have nothing to do with the cause of the universe?math does not always reflect the reality just ask any crooked accountant.
In this case, what makes you think that the math does not reflect reality?
Superstition never reflects reality. -
Roots Oceanic wrote: »Roots Oceanic wrote: »? is no sought of thinking being in anyway that our limited minds could comprehend or describe, many of mans so called thoughts have no deliberation before hand does this mean i am not conscious.
I don't think you want to make the claim that ? doesn't plan or make careful considerations before he acts. That would mean that there was no will, intention or purpose, meaning creation was an act without prior thought.
It could be that ? said create and all things came into existence and then chose to make a plan. IT COULD be that ? has a kind of unconscious mind that just creates and then his conscious minds makes a plan. I don't know nor can i ever know how the mind of ? works, i thought this would be evident by the first sentence in my post.
why would ? say create if there was no prior intention placed before the word or thought that actually creates? For you to even say "create" with intention of creation, there has to be some will, plan, and all-around thought beforehand.
But you're right. You don't know. You're only guessing.
yes to a certain extent i am guessing but so are you. you are no different from me in that reguard because you have put your faith in sciences that in many many ways is only a guesswork, YES some parts quantum theory appear to be true but not applied to the creation of the universe. you have so much faith in sciences that we cannot prove and that you have to take as correct when given to you by scientist who themselves can hardly explain what the think they have discovered.
People who have religion know this we know, that certain aspects of our existence and how ? did it is and will remain a mystery. For those of us who have had supernatural experience like being controled by a demon or NDE'S we know that ? has no thought process that we can describe and that the world is not as it seems.
men do many things with no prior intention i do many things with no thought or will put into it, for example my blood is flowing right now i am not thinking about it. maybe in a way ? did the same, we will never know. i think ? created us because he wanted something to love not that he needed but that he wnated. and to do this he limited his power and that changed the whole nature of the universe. i think that is why the universe was created and i think that effects how the universe works. -
M-theory basically proposes that there are up to 11 or more dimensions that exist in a kind of wave and that when these waves crash into each other a universe is born..
IN A WAY THIS IS OFF TOPIC BUT JUST WANTED TO POINT IT OUT:
This also corresponds with not only ancient wisdom but the theory of a holographic universe.
When the two laser beams reach the recording medium, their light waves intersect and interfere with each other. It is this interference pattern that is imprinted on the recording medium. The pattern itself is seemingly random, as it represents the way in which the scene's light interfered with the original light source — but not the original light source itself. The interference pattern can be said to be an encoded version of the scene, requiring a particular key — that is, the original light source — in order to view its contents.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holography
Djehuti stated "as above so below"
The Buddha stated "the one is in the all"
both describing the holographic principle.
Our Universe May Be a Giant Hologram
http://discovermagazine.com/2011/jun/03-our-universe-may-be-a-giant-hologram -
yes to a certain extent i am guessing but so are you. you are no different from me in that reguard
your guesswork is absurd.you have so much faith in sciences that we cannot prove and that you have to take as correct.
I'm thinking for myself when I say that I believe the universe has a natural cause. You said that science disagrees with me and you obviously trust science enough yourself to attempt to base an argument around it. You forced my hand to use science to prove you wrong.People who have religion know this we know, that certain aspects of our existence and how ? did it is and will remain a mystery.
In other words, you're only speculatingi think ? created us because he wanted something to love not that he needed but that he wnated.
If this is the reason why ? created the universe, that means the universe was created for a purpose which means ? 's act of creation was deliberate which means there was prior thought which means ? thinks which means his thoughts are a succession of mental events which means ? exists in time. -
Roots Oceanic wrote: »Roots Oceanic wrote: »
yes but m-theory is quantum physics applied to the creation of the universe in other words it is the creation of existence explained by quantum physics. If you take quantum physics out side of that context then you cannot answer your question, OR YOU CANNOT USE QUANTUM PHYSICS AS A GROUND TO STAND ON because it does not answer how the universe started or why it would only describe one possible interpretation of current quantum data.
That is why science is looking for a way to complete m-theory and unite it with g.r. this refers to just the math working correctly. proving it is a whole other problem.
M theory is an attempt to reconcile quantum mechanics and general relativity.
With the application of quantum physics, you can explain the universe by way of a natural cause: a quantum vacuum fluctuation.
And you still haven't answered my question: what makes you think the universe did not come about by way of vacuum fluctuations? That question leads us back to the articles I posted which you claimed have nothing to do with the cause of the universe?math does not always reflect the reality just ask any crooked accountant.
In this case, what makes you think that the math does not reflect reality?
Superstition never reflects reality.
what makes me think the universe did not come about by quantum vacumm fluctions. First, quantum fluctuations are not nothing, but something. Second, we have no proof that these fluctuations come from no thing and have no cause. (how would such an idea be proved?) Third, whatever is brought from potential to actual must be caused to do so by something that is already actual. Thus if there is a potential thing that becomes an actual thing, there must be an actual thing that brings it to be. Fourth, quantum physics is not nearly as well understood as principles of cause and effect, which are foundational to knowledge. It is not logical to take a theory which is little understood and use it to replace one that is well understood. Fifth, appealing to quantum fluctuations merely pushes the problem of causality back one more step, for we must ask the cause of the fluctuations.(1) Sixth, we have no evidence that quantum fluctuations and the laws of physics, such as gravity, can exist in isolation with neither matter nor energy in prior existence, nor do we have any evidence that such laws by themselves have any causal power. Quantum physics is a world of odd physics where logic can do anything.
and lastly this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqcxbCO65Pc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z79FGmh50Xo -
I cant see videos. I'm at work
