Spike Lee goes in about Gentrification in Brooklyn drops Real ish...Long Read
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Darth Sidious wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »Darth Sidious wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »
city recycling, funny
serious question....
who does gentrification help besides the yuppies looking to live closer to work?
all it does is relocate the poor and perpetuate the cycle of poverty...especially considering that most american's wealth is tied into their homes i.e. houses, condos, etc and if they lose that home because they can't afford the property taxes .....you know the rest
but i digress, obviously you don't care
Valid concerns of course
ok
but why is spike an idiot?
yea people move and the demographics of a neighborhood change however gentrification forces the issue that's what spike was protesting underneath the anger and disappointment
and yea most places like harlem and brooklyn were once predominantly white late 1800s, early 1900s, but when blks began buying homes in their neighborhoods whites took flight, which lowered real estate prices ... they weren't priced out unlike what is occurring today
"neighborhood recycling" or in other words the drastic shift in demographics that has occurred in brooklyn rarely occurs organically in america ...stop it
and remember zora neale hurston, langston hughes, marcus garvey, and other blk pioneers put harlem on the world map...it's practically a historic site
Quite simply because Spike is not looking at the whole history of this area and how it has evolved over time. Spike is taking a snapshot of the city he loves from about 1930-1950 to present day and saying 'This is how it's always been and this is how it should always be'.
If you start to dig into an ancient city you will find cities built on top of towns on top of villages. Change is constant and and cities grow ( or shrink ) as dictated by the people who live in them and environmental or economic factors of the time.
no, again these massive demographic shifts, uprooting of families from their homes rarely occur organically or in such a short period of time....not at least in recent times when have grocery stores and cities built in the dessert
even before the days when only property owners could vote, these changes are generally dictated by the powers that be
and unfortunately in american history blacks have been at the bottom of this hierarchy since slavery
this is the source of spike's frustration, anger ...at least that was my interpretation of what he was trying to communicate
he wants/wanted his neighborhood to stay the same, but naturally that would mean the shop owners and his neighbors would still be around -
Fair enough Desert, I don't live in the area so I don't know what a resident living in Brooklyn would experience. Based on the table I found below, I doubt the sky is falling like Spike is claiming for blacks in Brooklyn. If you can find better info, then great.
Racial composition 2010 1990 1950 1900
White 49.5% 46.9% 92.2% 98.3%
—Non-Hispanic 35.8% 40.1% n/a n/a
Black or African American 35.8% 37.9% 7.6% 1.6%
Hispanic or Latino (of any race) 19.8% 20.1% n/a n/a
Asian 11.3% 4.8% 0.1% 0.1%
In part, you could probably blame Jay-Z for helping spur economic development in Brooklyn after helping the Nets move there and all the associated business that follows.
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desertrain10 wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »
Well, how does this effect homeowners?
don't know if serious....but to anyone who is seriously waiting on a response to this question, you shouldn't be an active participant in this discussion lol
anyways gentrification raises property taxes on homeowners ....many of whom are already struggling
it also has been known to displace small business owners
so the problem isn't so much blk people don't own ?
I was just expecting a less obvious answer.
Yes thats true. Thats when u get all the forclosures. Its a problem.
However, increase in property value goes hand in hand with increase in taxes. Real estate is an invesyment. It is not a handout. Not all, but in most of these types of complete neighborhood flips, you're talking ridiculous increases in property value. So as black peopke we cant discuus equity and icreasing wealth. Everything has to be about struggling and just gitting by?
The real issue is the subprime lending fall out where people were being given homes they could JUST afford, holdin their finances together by a thread. Taxes go up even a drop n they cant afford.
you have to ask the right questions
but yes subprime lending is a big problem ....that's more of an issue of racial discrimination and a lack of the proper regulations within the mortgage industry
and we can talk about equity and increasing wealth, but not at the expense of the weakest among us
Well there is no wealth without property.
So you're saying we as black people cant excel without first making sure all of us not doing as well (even if on their own accord) are doing well also.
Oh ? ...epiphany...that, unintenioanlly, is ? in a barrell.
what? lol
we can talk about building wealth, but at the same time we shouldn't embrace gentrification...at least not without making sure the proper measures are being taken to ensure people aren't displaced
and yes owning property helps build wealth but there are better ways of raising property values, making improvements to a neighborhood than pushing people out ...and lets not act like its some sort of coincidence urban blight and crime which lower property values are problems within blk communities
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Darth prolly doesnt evem live on the east coast
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Spike was talkin to they ass
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Rosie Perez talks about hipsters and Gentrification in Brooklyn.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zfrjMwBk230
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YOU GOT D's ? ! D's!
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This a fo(ur) page thread, which I haven't read yet. I'll say the prollem is African Americans ask for ? . U ain't never(dn)gonna get ? if u ASK for it, word to Malcolm.
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Well, how does this effect homeowners?
Higher property taxes.
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desertrain10 wrote: »ThirdEyeFive wrote: »have we started blaming the poor yet?
bar ppl from jobs... bar them from education... bar them from owning homes/businesses... make it harder for them to keep the traditional family together by subsidizing single mothers ignore the funneling of drugs into poor communities than declare a war on drugs... wait a generation or two and then blame them for being dysfunctional... good job guys...
@desertrain10
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How so, unless eminent domain is being used to take homes away or the property tax has gone way up?
It's the property taxes increasing to the point where longtime residents can't afford it.
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Sadly keeping it real is looked down upon especially in Hollywood and Entertainment
They're keepin it 100, but just from their perspective. -
People on here gonna hate me for this and this post will draw a healthy amount of wacks (I'll wack you back tenfold nh), but I've hated Spike Lee ever since I sat through Miracle at St. Anna.
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... Preserve black neighborhods, yes. But preserve the hood? For what?
This.... The root of this issue isn't Black or White, it's Green.
To be brutally honest, our people need to do better. We need to be able to Own thriving plazas, towns, cities, districts, and counties, so that an attempt at gentrification would be rendered moot, because there isn't anything we can't afford.
Avoiding gentrification is one thing, but not subsequently striving tirelessly to make our own communities affluent, vibrant, communal, family-oriented meccas is almost just as dangerous, imo...
While this conversation / commentary certainly isn't new, and neither are many of the progressive suggestions bolstering this thread, what would indeed be a very necessary nuance, culturally even, is if these "We need to Own our own ? "-type declarations actually came to fruition.
While yes, we have been systemically oppressed, we should have amassed A LOT more wealth by now, nationally. ? why not, or when this, or whatever. The simple truth is ~ As Blacks, we need to do better. Period.
We've long since reached a point where culture cannot be the only thing of value we hold as a people. -
Slavery ended less than 3 life times ago, so with the systems in place to keep us down, we've come a long way and from what we came, we have a long way to go, but 1 thing is certain, is that we will survive, and this may be a reach but we may just have to "out survive" them before the oppression ends
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Excerpts from a another article. Spike, you want to save your neighborhood? KYS
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/us/new-york-spike-lee-gentrification/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Mitchell Moss, a professor of urban policy and planning at New York University's Wagner School of Public Service, said the city has witnessed an enormous recovery since 2001, and the greatest change has been felt in Brooklyn, which has drawn newcomers because of its housing, access to Manhattan and improved safety.
"Cities don't stand still, and the cities that stand still are Detroit," Moss said. "So if Spike Lee wants to see a place where there is no gentrification, he'll also find a place where there are no investments. Obviously, he's someone who knows how to make a movie but doesn't know anything about cities."
He added: "Brooklyn has become more attractive to more people. Of course, that means some people are going to have to find other places to live, but that's the magic of New York. We create new places. Today, Bushwick, which was an area that people were afraid to go to, now has some of the best restaurants in the city."
"Let me just ? you right now," Lee, the "Do The Right Thing" director, told D.K. Smith, a Brooklyn homeowner and tech start-up director, at the speech when Smith brought up the subject of the "other side" of gentrification.
Smith couldn't get a word in during Lee's speech Tuesday night. But the next day he said he was glad the filmmaker got people talking about the issue.
"What I wanted to do was expand the dialogue," he told CNN's "Erin Burnett OutFront."
"I'm black, and America is America," he said. "I don't need to moan and groan about it all the time. And some things are bigger than Bed Stuy or Fort Greene or being black in Brooklyn. Gentrification is an issue everywhere. It gets right down to the whole economic scene with the super rich, the 1%, and then the other 99 % of us."
Smith said that when he bought his parents' four-story brownstone in 1989, he thought he'd be lucky to one day get $450,000 for it. "We passed that some time in the '90s," he said.
"I'm personally tired of moaning and groaning about being black," he said. "Here's a case where it has its advantages -- for the first time tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of blacks can participate in American wealth creation. My ? , that's what this country is all about."
Referring to reports that Lee's 9,000-square-foot mansion on Manhattan's Upper East Side is on the market for $32 million, Smith said: "Spike is a causative factor in gentrification. If Spike moves to a swamp ... that land next door goes up immediately."
But Smith doesn't disagree entirely with Lee.
"I've had incidents with the dogs of new owners crapping on the sidewalks. They don't think anybody lives there," he said, adding that most are "wonderful new neighbors." -
Most of yall ? on here are some walking contradictions.
When spike try to preach about real ? yall stand on his side, but when ? on the ic preach about how we need to step our game up and come together as one yall laugh at him and turn away.
Spike isn't speaking from a new script from his latest movie, this is real life. -
How so, unless eminent domain is being used to take homes away or the property tax has gone way u?
They'll automatically go up as the property value of the neighborhood goes up. -
I got a question from a different angle.
where the thugs at?
how come my thug ? who shoot black people an rob black people an wild out for fun aint making it hard for these people?
everybody plays a role in this.
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I got a question from a different angle.
where the thugs at?
how come my thug ? who shoot black people an rob black people an wild out for fun aint making it hard for these people?
everybody plays a role in this.
Because they either commit those crimes out of necessity or opportunity...
They want u to believe there are these "thugs" randomly shooting, but that not the case...
That's why it ain't hard to lower crime in these places when they want to... I get your point, but it ain't like that son. -
If u dont live, or never resided in NYC shut da fluck up and stay out of NYC business...bamas.
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I'm from Philly an been in NYC quite a few times.ThirdEyeFive wrote: »I got a question from a different angle.
where the thugs at?
how come my thug ? who shoot black people an rob black people an wild out for fun aint making it hard for these people?
everybody plays a role in this.
Because they either commit those crimes out of necessity or opportunity...
They want u to believe there are these "thugs" randomly shooting, but that not the case...
That's why it ain't hard to lower crime in these places when they want to... I get your point, but it ain't like that son.
I know a lot of dudes that do ? just because. with no rhyme or reason other than to be an ass or impress his friends. -
Ok... I don't know any of them ? ... Either way those ? are few and far between and probably still beholden to opportunity...
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Darth Sidious wrote: »Excerpts from a another article. Spike, you want to save your neighborhood? KYS
http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/26/us/new-york-spike-lee-gentrification/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
Mitchell Moss, a professor of urban policy and planning at New York University's Wagner School of Public Service, said the city has witnessed an enormous recovery since 2001, and the greatest change has been felt in Brooklyn, which has drawn newcomers because of its housing, access to Manhattan and improved safety.
"Cities don't stand still, and the cities that stand still are Detroit," Moss said. "So if Spike Lee wants to see a place where there is no gentrification, he'll also find a place where there are no investments. Obviously, he's someone who knows how to make a movie but doesn't know anything about cities."
He added: "Brooklyn has become more attractive to more people. Of course, that means some people are going to have to find other places to live, but that's the magic of New York. We create new places. Today, Bushwick, which was an area that people were afraid to go to, now has some of the best restaurants in the city."
"Let me just ? you right now," Lee, the "Do The Right Thing" director, told D.K. Smith, a Brooklyn homeowner and tech start-up director, at the speech when Smith brought up the subject of the "other side" of gentrification.
Smith couldn't get a word in during Lee's speech Tuesday night. But the next day he said he was glad the filmmaker got people talking about the issue.
"What I wanted to do was expand the dialogue," he told CNN's "Erin Burnett OutFront."
"I'm black, and America is America," he said. "I don't need to moan and groan about it all the time. And some things are bigger than Bed Stuy or Fort Greene or being black in Brooklyn. Gentrification is an issue everywhere. It gets right down to the whole economic scene with the super rich, the 1%, and then the other 99 % of us."
Smith said that when he bought his parents' four-story brownstone in 1989, he thought he'd be lucky to one day get $450,000 for it. "We passed that some time in the '90s," he said.
"I'm personally tired of moaning and groaning about being black," he said. "Here's a case where it has its advantages -- for the first time tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of blacks can participate in American wealth creation. My ? , that's what this country is all about."
Referring to reports that Lee's 9,000-square-foot mansion on Manhattan's Upper East Side is on the market for $32 million, Smith said: "Spike is a causative factor in gentrification. If Spike moves to a swamp ... that land next door goes up immediately."
But Smith doesn't disagree entirely with Lee.
"I've had incidents with the dogs of new owners crapping on the sidewalks. They don't think anybody lives there," he said, adding that most are "wonderful new neighbors."
Lol
NO REACTIONS TO THIS^^^?!?! See, you nggas dont wanna actually talk about this!
Yall wanna throw out ill-informed, fake black-power infused cliches.
Maybe it was too long. Lets address this :
Smith said that when he bought his parents' four-story brownstone in 1989, he thought he'd be lucky to one day get $450,000 for it. "We passed that some time in the '90s," he said.
"I'm personally tired of moaning and groaning about being black," he said. "Here's a case where it has its advantages -- for the first time tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of blacks can participate in American wealth creation. My ? , that's what this country is all about."
"Cities don't stand still, and the cities that stand still are Detroit," Moss said.
Please. Please, someone intelligently address this. -
I got a question from a different angle.
where the thugs at?
how come my thug ? who shoot black people an rob black people an wild out for fun aint making it hard for these people?
everybody plays a role in this.
These people bring more police. Trust me they clean those areas of the criminal element before it becomes a hipster paradise.
Of course the police can't arrest them all but it's enough to displace them and they carry on all that stuff somewhere else.
