Can Earth survive without religion or belief in ? ?
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You can't say slavery is no longer condoned by Christian nations when there are children making clothes
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No. The reason why slavery and genocide no longer occurs in America is because it is no longer necessary. They got a huge chunk of land and as a nation, they would not be able to survive with a homogeneous population, which is why the government made sure to derail Marcus Garvey's movement. Also, Europe was already pressuring the U.S. to stop its fuckery, as slavery had already been outlawed in most European countries.kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »RELIGION HAS BEEN THE GREATEST THING IN HUMAN HISTORY.
Hell ? no, LOL......
When Christianity was big in America, America had govt sanctioned slavery, genocide, and oppression of people all over the western hemisphere. Religious fools in America and in Europe used the Bible to justify all kinds of terrorism and evil. If the Bible or Abrahamic ? NEVER existed, human progress would have been accelerated. Muslim slave traders used the Koran to ruin lives all over Africa and the Middle East, while Europeans used the Bible to ruin lives all over the world. Organized religion has been one of the WORST things to ever happen to humans.
Humans don't need religion to be civilized, that myth has been broken already, catch up.
Was big in America??? Christianity is still big in America. And most abolitionist were Christian but you are correct the bible was misused . But from a totally objective standpoint religion has done more good.
You hate the ? of Abraham but I am
Talking about religion period not just the religion you hate
Christianity is "big" in America on a shallow level, most Christians do not take the Bible here seriously. But back when Americans DID take the Bible seriously (in larger numbers compared to now), American politicians EXPLICITLY used the Bible to support manfest destiny and slavery, oppression, and even stealing land. Now that Christianity isn't taken as seriously, people (for the most part) think these things are wrong in this country. I can post up quotes from various American politicians in the past who used the Bible to support everything I said.
And non religious people in America are 25% of the population now, that number would have been unthinkable just 25 years ago. I expect the number to grow as time goes on.
that's just your feelings and opinion which is cool i have no problem with that , but the reality is that the fact that christians in america are no longer practicing slavery and killing people for land only means that we are talking the words of christ more serious not less. You just have your own warped twisted perspective on a religion that you clearly don't understand.
and being non religious does not mean you don't believe in ? so your 25% number does not tell the full truth about how people really feel
Religion didn't make America better. Only after setting religion to the side did America progress.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »RELIGION HAS BEEN THE GREATEST THING IN HUMAN HISTORY.
Hell ? no, LOL......
When Christianity was big in America, America had govt sanctioned slavery, genocide, and oppression of people all over the western hemisphere. Religious fools in America and in Europe used the Bible to justify all kinds of terrorism and evil. If the Bible or Abrahamic ? NEVER existed, human progress would have been accelerated. Muslim slave traders used the Koran to ruin lives all over Africa and the Middle East, while Europeans used the Bible to ruin lives all over the world. Organized religion has been one of the WORST things to ever happen to humans.
Humans don't need religion to be civilized, that myth has been broken already, catch up.
Was big in America??? Christianity is still big in America. And most abolitionist were Christian but you are correct the bible was misused . But from a totally objective standpoint religion has done more good.
You hate the ? of Abraham but I am
Talking about religion period not just the religion you hate
Christianity is "big" in America on a shallow level, most Christians do not take the Bible here seriously. But back when Americans DID take the Bible seriously (in larger numbers compared to now), American politicians EXPLICITLY used the Bible to support manfest destiny and slavery, oppression, and even stealing land. Now that Christianity isn't taken as seriously, people (for the most part) think these things are wrong in this country. I can post up quotes from various American politicians in the past who used the Bible to support everything I said.
And non religious people in America are 25% of the population now, that number would have been unthinkable just 25 years ago. I expect the number to grow as time goes on.
that's just your feelings and opinion which is cool i have no problem with that , but the reality is that the fact that christians in america are no longer practicing slavery and killing people for land only means that we are talking the words of christ more serious not less. You just have your own warped twisted perspective on a religion that you clearly don't understand.
and being non religious does not mean you don't believe in ? so your 25% number does not tell the full truth about how people really feel
My view on Abrahamic religions isn't warped, I've read the words of the holy books of the Abrahamic ? carefully and they all love and encourage terrorism. Yes much of the views are peaceful but many passages of the holy books encourage bloodshed and whether you like it or not, Jesus never explicitly denied the Old Testament, he praised and never criticized it. This is why Columbus, Hernando Cortes, and Pizzaro among other Christian terrorists USED THE WORDS OF THE BIBLE to encourage massive rapes, slaughter of innocents and bloodshed on levels that can disgust any historian. And as you would know, Jesus is the Old Testament ? , right....? So technically, Pizzaro and them were quoting Jesus when they encouraged the Christian reign of terror that plagued the world for a long time.
And of course, we now know religious people in certain societies around the world used religion to justify human sacrifice. I'm not necessarily anti-religion, but we shouldn't pretend it's been a net positive for humanity.
You read but you don't understand, I have had this discussion with you before christians are not jews what columbus did was against everything jesus taught christians to do. I can quote anybody AND DO EVIL in their name that person should not be held accountable for my actions just because i am using their name.
WHY WOULD JESUS CRITICIZE THE OLD TESTAMENT???? Why do you have such a problem with the old testament??? there are reasons why ? allowed the wars, the enslavement and slaughter of certain peoples certain people were basically singled out for punishment and they were to be eradicated from the land But ? did not order that same level of harsh treatment to all people just because they practice a different religion.
religion has been a net positive for humanity it has literally framed our entire society AND i am not just talking about the west. -
soul rattler wrote: »
No. The reason why slavery and genocide no longer occurs in America is because it is no longer necessary. They got a huge chunk of land and as a nation, they would not be able to survive with a homogeneous population, which is why the government made sure to derail Marcus Garvey's movement. Also, Europe was already pressuring the U.S. to stop its fuckery, as slavery had already been outlawed in most European countries.kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »RELIGION HAS BEEN THE GREATEST THING IN HUMAN HISTORY.
Hell ? no, LOL......
When Christianity was big in America, America had govt sanctioned slavery, genocide, and oppression of people all over the western hemisphere. Religious fools in America and in Europe used the Bible to justify all kinds of terrorism and evil. If the Bible or Abrahamic ? NEVER existed, human progress would have been accelerated. Muslim slave traders used the Koran to ruin lives all over Africa and the Middle East, while Europeans used the Bible to ruin lives all over the world. Organized religion has been one of the WORST things to ever happen to humans.
Humans don't need religion to be civilized, that myth has been broken already, catch up.
Was big in America??? Christianity is still big in America. And most abolitionist were Christian but you are correct the bible was misused . But from a totally objective standpoint religion has done more good.
You hate the ? of Abraham but I am
Talking about religion period not just the religion you hate
Christianity is "big" in America on a shallow level, most Christians do not take the Bible here seriously. But back when Americans DID take the Bible seriously (in larger numbers compared to now), American politicians EXPLICITLY used the Bible to support manfest destiny and slavery, oppression, and even stealing land. Now that Christianity isn't taken as seriously, people (for the most part) think these things are wrong in this country. I can post up quotes from various American politicians in the past who used the Bible to support everything I said.
And non religious people in America are 25% of the population now, that number would have been unthinkable just 25 years ago. I expect the number to grow as time goes on.
that's just your feelings and opinion which is cool i have no problem with that , but the reality is that the fact that christians in america are no longer practicing slavery and killing people for land only means that we are talking the words of christ more serious not less. You just have your own warped twisted perspective on a religion that you clearly don't understand.
and being non religious does not mean you don't believe in ? so your 25% number does not tell the full truth about how people really feel
Religion didn't make America better. Only after setting religion to the side did America progress.
THE SOUTH HAD ALL INTENTION OF KEEPING SLAVERY FOREVER with or without the economic need for it because slavery for the upper class was about more than just making money it became a social and cultural part of their existence. You sound like a confederate apologist, they often propose the lie that slavery would have ended eventually for economic reasons. Europe did not care if america continued slavery or not brazil had slavery for a long time after it ended in the usa and europe still did business with them.
AND I did not propose that slavery ended because of religion simply that religion did have a had in pushing it's end america has not set religion to the side like it or not there are millions and millions of religious people in america and that's not counting the people who don't follow one religion but still believe in some kind of ? .
The bolded made no ? sense you think the government derailed the garvey movement because they wanted blacks in america??? are you white???? -
You can't say slavery is no longer condoned by Christian nations when there are children making clothes
That's not slavery. International sweatshop workers for the most part are not slaves they get paid, and when their horrible working conditions are made known to the world there is often a hugh push to get things improved for them. But they are not slaves. -
Religion is a tool plain and simple but to fully commit yourself illogically towards it is foolish and led to many schizophrenic destruction. That's the biggest problem with religion when you make it real life.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »RELIGION HAS BEEN THE GREATEST THING IN HUMAN HISTORY.
Hell ? no, LOL......
When Christianity was big in America, America had govt sanctioned slavery, genocide, and oppression of people all over the western hemisphere. Religious fools in America and in Europe used the Bible to justify all kinds of terrorism and evil. If the Bible or Abrahamic ? NEVER existed, human progress would have been accelerated. Muslim slave traders used the Koran to ruin lives all over Africa and the Middle East, while Europeans used the Bible to ruin lives all over the world. Organized religion has been one of the WORST things to ever happen to humans.
Humans don't need religion to be civilized, that myth has been broken already, catch up.
Was big in America??? Christianity is still big in America. And most abolitionist were Christian but you are correct the bible was misused . But from a totally objective standpoint religion has done more good.
You hate the ? of Abraham but I am
Talking about religion period not just the religion you hate
Christianity is "big" in America on a shallow level, most Christians do not take the Bible here seriously. But back when Americans DID take the Bible seriously (in larger numbers compared to now), American politicians EXPLICITLY used the Bible to support manfest destiny and slavery, oppression, and even stealing land. Now that Christianity isn't taken as seriously, people (for the most part) think these things are wrong in this country. I can post up quotes from various American politicians in the past who used the Bible to support everything I said.
And non religious people in America are 25% of the population now, that number would have been unthinkable just 25 years ago. I expect the number to grow as time goes on.
that's just your feelings and opinion which is cool i have no problem with that , but the reality is that the fact that christians in america are no longer practicing slavery and killing people for land only means that we are talking the words of christ more serious not less. You just have your own warped twisted perspective on a religion that you clearly don't understand.
and being non religious does not mean you don't believe in ? so your 25% number does not tell the full truth about how people really feel
My view on Abrahamic religions isn't warped, I've read the words of the holy books of the Abrahamic ? carefully and they all love and encourage terrorism. Yes much of the views are peaceful but many passages of the holy books encourage bloodshed and whether you like it or not, Jesus never explicitly denied the Old Testament, he praised and never criticized it. This is why Columbus, Hernando Cortes, and Pizzaro among other Christian terrorists USED THE WORDS OF THE BIBLE to encourage massive rapes, slaughter of innocents and bloodshed on levels that can disgust any historian. And as you would know, Jesus is the Old Testament ? , right....? So technically, Pizzaro and them were quoting Jesus when they encouraged the Christian reign of terror that plagued the world for a long time.
And of course, we now know religious people in certain societies around the world used religion to justify human sacrifice. I'm not necessarily anti-religion, but we shouldn't pretend it's been a net positive for humanity.
You read but you don't understand, I have had this discussion with you before christians are not jews what columbus did was against everything jesus taught christians to do. I can quote anybody AND DO EVIL in their name that person should not be held accountable for my actions just because i am using their name.
WHY WOULD JESUS CRITICIZE THE OLD TESTAMENT???? Why do you have such a problem with the old testament??? there are reasons why ? allowed the wars, the enslavement and slaughter of certain peoples certain people were basically singled out for punishment and they were to be eradicated from the land But ? did not order that same level of harsh treatment to all people just because they practice a different religion.
religion has been a net positive for humanity it has literally framed our entire society AND i am not just talking about the west.
The people who were singled out for enslavement and destruction were the Canaanites and others who allegedly were a very evil people right? And they committed child sacrifice and all that, I've read the stories. If that really was the case, then why couldn't the Old Testament ? (Jesus) come down to Earth himself and help civilize those people? Instead, it chose the lazy route and ordered the destruction and enslavement of a whole bunch of people and even gave rules for enslavement and genocide, the irony being if it chose to come down to Earth and helped civilize the people directly, it wouldn't have to order the destruction and slavery of those and later others.
And the Old Testament ? didn't stop at just enslaving the Canaanites, it gave rules for enslaving others IN GENERAL. And Jesus never told his followers that slavery is wrong, despite the fact it was common in the Roman Empire in which he lived in. He instead co-signed every part of the Old Testament and from that point forward, evil, religious Christians used that co-sign to commit terrorism for hundreds upon hundreds of years. -
And you completely overlooked how the Bible ? ordered the destruction of ANYONE from ANYWHERE who worshiped foreign gods and held dear idols of different gods. Look at how Christian conquerors destroyed artifacts and murdered almost a whole people in the Americas. Coincidence?
If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another ? , ? them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)
If you find out a city worships a different ? , destroy the city and ? all of it's inhabitants... even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12-15)
? anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7)
And please remember, Jesus co-signed all this. Shameful, one reason why Christianity is so disrespected these days. Religion a net positive for humanity? I don't think so, not the trashy Abrahamic religions at least. And because Abrahamic religions have been the most dominant among other religions for a long time, religion has been a net loss for humanity. Philosophy and love of family and close ones has done way more for humanity then religion. Other religions accepted human sacrifice in brutal ways, another strike. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »And you completely overlooked how the Bible ? ordered the destruction of ANYONE from ANYWHERE who worshiped foreign gods and held dear idols of different gods. Look at how Christian conquerors destroyed artifacts and murdered almost a whole people in the Americas. Coincidence?
If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another ? , ? them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)
If you find out a city worships a different ? , destroy the city and ? all of it's inhabitants... even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12-15)
? anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7)
And please remember, Jesus co-signed all this. Shameful, one reason why Christianity is so disrespected these days. Religion a net positive for humanity? I don't think so, not the trashy Abrahamic religions at least. And because Abrahamic religions have been the most dominant among other religions for a long time, religion has been a net loss for humanity. Philosophy and love of family and close ones has done way more for humanity then religion. Other religions accepted human sacrifice in brutal ways, another strike.
You took the passage out of context ? told them to do that to the people in a certain land not the whole planet. And killing other Israelites who worship other gods was to ensure the practice did not spread among the whole nation.
The people ? ordered Israel to destroy practiced pederasty, ? and homosexuality and religious prostitution not to mention several other detestable practices.
Love for family as also leads to murder. That's what tribal war is. it's time for you to grow up and stop escape goating religion for man's actions. Especially when the various religions are attempts to bring order to our instincts. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »RELIGION HAS BEEN THE GREATEST THING IN HUMAN HISTORY.
Hell ? no, LOL......
When Christianity was big in America, America had govt sanctioned slavery, genocide, and oppression of people all over the western hemisphere. Religious fools in America and in Europe used the Bible to justify all kinds of terrorism and evil. If the Bible or Abrahamic ? NEVER existed, human progress would have been accelerated. Muslim slave traders used the Koran to ruin lives all over Africa and the Middle East, while Europeans used the Bible to ruin lives all over the world. Organized religion has been one of the WORST things to ever happen to humans.
Humans don't need religion to be civilized, that myth has been broken already, catch up.
Was big in America??? Christianity is still big in America. And most abolitionist were Christian but you are correct the bible was misused . But from a totally objective standpoint religion has done more good.
You hate the ? of Abraham but I am
Talking about religion period not just the religion you hate
Christianity is "big" in America on a shallow level, most Christians do not take the Bible here seriously. But back when Americans DID take the Bible seriously (in larger numbers compared to now), American politicians EXPLICITLY used the Bible to support manfest destiny and slavery, oppression, and even stealing land. Now that Christianity isn't taken as seriously, people (for the most part) think these things are wrong in this country. I can post up quotes from various American politicians in the past who used the Bible to support everything I said.
And non religious people in America are 25% of the population now, that number would have been unthinkable just 25 years ago. I expect the number to grow as time goes on.
that's just your feelings and opinion which is cool i have no problem with that , but the reality is that the fact that christians in america are no longer practicing slavery and killing people for land only means that we are talking the words of christ more serious not less. You just have your own warped twisted perspective on a religion that you clearly don't understand.
and being non religious does not mean you don't believe in ? so your 25% number does not tell the full truth about how people really feel
My view on Abrahamic religions isn't warped, I've read the words of the holy books of the Abrahamic ? carefully and they all love and encourage terrorism. Yes much of the views are peaceful but many passages of the holy books encourage bloodshed and whether you like it or not, Jesus never explicitly denied the Old Testament, he praised and never criticized it. This is why Columbus, Hernando Cortes, and Pizzaro among other Christian terrorists USED THE WORDS OF THE BIBLE to encourage massive rapes, slaughter of innocents and bloodshed on levels that can disgust any historian. And as you would know, Jesus is the Old Testament ? , right....? So technically, Pizzaro and them were quoting Jesus when they encouraged the Christian reign of terror that plagued the world for a long time.
And of course, we now know religious people in certain societies around the world used religion to justify human sacrifice. I'm not necessarily anti-religion, but we shouldn't pretend it's been a net positive for humanity.
You read but you don't understand, I have had this discussion with you before christians are not jews what columbus did was against everything jesus taught christians to do. I can quote anybody AND DO EVIL in their name that person should not be held accountable for my actions just because i am using their name.
WHY WOULD JESUS CRITICIZE THE OLD TESTAMENT???? Why do you have such a problem with the old testament??? there are reasons why ? allowed the wars, the enslavement and slaughter of certain peoples certain people were basically singled out for punishment and they were to be eradicated from the land But ? did not order that same level of harsh treatment to all people just because they practice a different religion.
religion has been a net positive for humanity it has literally framed our entire society AND i am not just talking about the west.
The people who were singled out for enslavement and destruction were the Canaanites and others who allegedly were a very evil people right? And they committed child sacrifice and all that, I've read the stories. If that really was the case, then why couldn't the Old Testament ? (Jesus) come down to Earth himself and help civilize those people? Instead, it chose the lazy route and ordered the destruction and enslavement of a whole bunch of people and even gave rules for enslavement and genocide, the irony being if it chose to come down to Earth and helped civilize the people directly, it wouldn't have to order the destruction and slavery of those and later others.
And the Old Testament ? didn't stop at just enslaving the Canaanites, it gave rules for enslaving others IN GENERAL. And Jesus never told his followers that slavery is wrong, despite the fact it was common in the Roman Empire in which he lived in. He instead co-signed every part of the Old Testament and from that point forward, evil, religious Christians used that co-sign to commit terrorism for hundreds upon hundreds of years.
? is not a genie and does not stop people from making choices that's why he does not snap his fingers and fix things. Jesus told his followers to love all men that obviously means you can't intentionally hurt people. -
okay, first off, let's address this: no, they were not TECHNICALLY quoting Jesus. this would be a much more figurative argument, like "you could say that the deity they're quoting is one and the same with Jesus, who would appear later if you believe that Jesus was a deity."kingblaze84 wrote: »My view on Abrahamic religions isn't warped, I've read the words of the holy books of the Abrahamic ? carefully and they all love and encourage terrorism. Yes much of the views are peaceful but many passages of the holy books encourage bloodshed and whether you like it or not, Jesus never explicitly denied the Old Testament, he praised and never criticized it. This is why Columbus, Hernando Cortes, and Pizzaro among other Christian terrorists USED THE WORDS OF THE BIBLE to encourage massive rapes, slaughter of innocents and bloodshed on levels that can disgust any historian. And as you would know, Jesus is the Old Testament ? , right....? So technically, Pizzaro and them were quoting Jesus when they encouraged the Christian reign of terror that plagued the world for a long time.
but the main point you do seem to miss is this: anyone can quote scripture to sell a point without quoting it correctly or themselves being a legitimate Christian. it's a better argument to try and find quotes that cosign those guys, but what you're NOT doing there is a) demonstrating Columbus or whoever was a legitimate Christian (or whatever) or b) that they were using the words of the Bible CORRECTLY. it's been used as a tool by people of all sorts.
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okay, first off, let's address this: no, they were not TECHNICALLY quoting Jesus. this would be a much more figurative argument, like "you could say that the deity they're quoting is one and the same with Jesus, who would appear later if you believe that Jesus was a deity."kingblaze84 wrote: »My view on Abrahamic religions isn't warped, I've read the words of the holy books of the Abrahamic ? carefully and they all love and encourage terrorism. Yes much of the views are peaceful but many passages of the holy books encourage bloodshed and whether you like it or not, Jesus never explicitly denied the Old Testament, he praised and never criticized it. This is why Columbus, Hernando Cortes, and Pizzaro among other Christian terrorists USED THE WORDS OF THE BIBLE to encourage massive rapes, slaughter of innocents and bloodshed on levels that can disgust any historian. And as you would know, Jesus is the Old Testament ? , right....? So technically, Pizzaro and them were quoting Jesus when they encouraged the Christian reign of terror that plagued the world for a long time.
but the main point you do seem to miss is this: anyone can quote scripture to sell a point without quoting it correctly or themselves being a legitimate Christian. it's a better argument to try and find quotes that cosign those guys, but what you're NOT doing there is a) demonstrating Columbus or whoever was a legitimate Christian (or whatever) or b) that they were using the words of the Bible CORRECTLY. it's been used as a tool by people of all sorts.
According to Christians, Jesus is the Old Testament ? lol, so YES, Pizarro and Columbus did use the words of Jesus to support atrocities. If Jesus went on record to say the Old Testament should not be taken seriously and should not be listened to, Christian ? would have had less justification to commit terrorism for hundreds of years onward. The damage ? Christians did for many, many years will live on for a long time. Also, the New Testament never said the Old Testament was wrong, and Jesus made clear to his followers the Old Testament was to be taken seriously and honored. Bill Maher has a powerful video on this.
I am aware people had slaves before religion, and many people who used the Bible to justify slavery maybe weren't real Christians, but the reality shows the Catholic Church and Protestant churches for hundreds of years declared slavery a noble and just thing, BY USING THE WORDS OF THE BIBLE. This legitimized evil in the eyes of many, especially among Americans and Europeans.
Church leadership in Catholic and Protestant churches were more then happy to encourage conquistadors and other evil Christians to slaughter anyone and keep others as slaves, as long as they had different gods and worshiped differently. Using the Bible correctly means nothing when the words of the Bible encourage evil, and Jesus NOT ONCE criticized the Old Testament and went on to say it should always be honored. -
What the church's taught is irrelevant as a criticism of Christ if what they taught was a direct contradiction of what he teaches.Christ said to honor the ot and the law but he fulfilled the laws. But the ignorant think they know what they don't and in their simply undereducated minds they will ignore this.
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What the church's taught is irrelevant as a criticism of Christ if what they taught was a direct contradiction of what he teaches.Christ said to honor the ot and the law but he fulfilled the laws. But the ignorant think they know what they don't and in their simply undereducated minds they will ignore this.
Why did the HEADS OF CHURCHES, from pastors to priests, co-sign slavery so much then for hundreds upon hundreds of years? Why would HEADS OF CHURCHES co-sign all that, if they were simply uneducated? I can understand a king or queen liking slavery and encouraging it, but heads of churches for hundreds of years? Look at all the popes and CHRISTIAN monarchs who READ the Bible and concluded with teachers the Bible supports slavery and mass murder, coincidence......? ? NO. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »What the church's taught is irrelevant as a criticism of Christ if what they taught was a direct contradiction of what he teaches.Christ said to honor the ot and the law but he fulfilled the laws. But the ignorant think they know what they don't and in their simply undereducated minds they will ignore this.
Why did the HEADS OF CHURCHES, from pastors to priests, co-sign slavery so much then for hundreds upon hundreds of years? Why would HEADS OF CHURCHES co-sign all that, if they were simply uneducated? I can understand a king or queen liking slavery and encouraging it, but heads of churches for hundreds of years? Look at all the popes and CHRISTIAN monarchs who READ the Bible and concluded with teachers the Bible supports slavery and mass murder, coincidence......? ? NO.
Actually the issue of slavery in the church was never as simple as you are trying to make it seem several popes of all people actually condemned the practice and tried to limit or stop it and then you have those who didn't. Even queen isabella ordered that all spanish slaves be freed but after she died conquistadors ignored that .
But the ultimate answer to you question exists in the human ability to disregard principles and long held values for profits. To rationalize sin for money.
In christianity there is no order to enslave anyone. The ot slavery was allowed for certain people not all people for all time. These facts are obvious but people ignore this to fit there own agenda. Much like how governments often ignore their own constitutions. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »What the church's taught is irrelevant as a criticism of Christ if what they taught was a direct contradiction of what he teaches.Christ said to honor the ot and the law but he fulfilled the laws. But the ignorant think they know what they don't and in their simply undereducated minds they will ignore this.
Why did the HEADS OF CHURCHES, from pastors to priests, co-sign slavery so much then for hundreds upon hundreds of years? Why would HEADS OF CHURCHES co-sign all that, if they were simply uneducated? I can understand a king or queen liking slavery and encouraging it, but heads of churches for hundreds of years? Look at all the popes and CHRISTIAN monarchs who READ the Bible and concluded with teachers the Bible supports slavery and mass murder, coincidence......? ? NO.
Actually the issue of slavery in the church was never as simple as you are trying to make it seem several popes of all people actually condemned the practice and tried to limit or stop it and then you have those who didn't. Even queen isabella ordered that all spanish slaves be freed but after she died conquistadors ignored that .
But the ultimate answer to you question exists in the human ability to disregard principles and long held values for profits. To rationalize sin for money.
In christianity there is no order to enslave anyone. The ot slavery was allowed for certain people not all people for all time. These facts are obvious but people ignore this to fit there own agenda. Much like how governments often ignore their own constitutions.
Solid points in some ways, but either way, most of the heads of churches in Europe and elsewhere in the New World supported slavery and the mass killings of people worldwide because they were different, even if many of the people were friendly. Most of the churches until roughly the late 1800s overall had no problems with the institutions of slavery, look at how long the Catholic Church and protestant churches held slaves and supported genocide and of course stealing of resources because the Bible ? allowed it. Coincidence? No.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_slavery
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »What the church's taught is irrelevant as a criticism of Christ if what they taught was a direct contradiction of what he teaches.Christ said to honor the ot and the law but he fulfilled the laws. But the ignorant think they know what they don't and in their simply undereducated minds they will ignore this.
Why did the HEADS OF CHURCHES, from pastors to priests, co-sign slavery so much then for hundreds upon hundreds of years? Why would HEADS OF CHURCHES co-sign all that, if they were simply uneducated? I can understand a king or queen liking slavery and encouraging it, but heads of churches for hundreds of years? Look at all the popes and CHRISTIAN monarchs who READ the Bible and concluded with teachers the Bible supports slavery and mass murder, coincidence......? ? NO.
Actually the issue of slavery in the church was never as simple as you are trying to make it seem several popes of all people actually condemned the practice and tried to limit or stop it and then you have those who didn't. Even queen isabella ordered that all spanish slaves be freed but after she died conquistadors ignored that .
But the ultimate answer to you question exists in the human ability to disregard principles and long held values for profits. To rationalize sin for money.
In christianity there is no order to enslave anyone. The ot slavery was allowed for certain people not all people for all time. These facts are obvious but people ignore this to fit there own agenda. Much like how governments often ignore their own constitutions.
Solid points in some ways, but either way, most of the heads of churches in Europe and elsewhere in the New World supported slavery and the mass killings of people worldwide because they were different, even if many of the people were friendly. Most of the churches until roughly the late 1800s overall had no problems with the institutions of slavery, look at how long the Catholic Church and protestant churches held slaves and supported genocide and of course stealing of resources because the Bible ? allowed it. Coincidence? No.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_slavery
The church allows lots of things the actual teachings of Christ clearly do not especially the Catholic church. But
I not hold that against ? or religion in general. -
the Trinity concept is not the exact same thing as saying "Pizarro quoted Jesus." if Pizarro (or whoever) cited Jesus, PROVIDE THE CITATION. if they used an Old Testament reference, that's what we should be calling it, or a reference to Paul or whoever. let's have accuracy over sensationalism?kingblaze84 wrote: »According to Christians, Jesus is the Old Testament ? lol, so YES, Pizarro and Columbus did use the words of Jesus to support atrocities.
look, if you want an example, tell me how Christians handle the many small restrictions on diet and so on that are explicitly spelled out in the OT.kingblaze84 wrote: »If Jesus went on record to say the Old Testament should not be taken seriously and should not be listened to, Christian ? would have had less justification to commit terrorism for hundreds of years onward. The damage ? Christians did for many, many years will live on for a long time. Also, the New Testament never said the Old Testament was wrong-
however, the POINT is that there is a difference between "this scripture, stated correctly and used sincerely, supports atrocity X" and "well, we'll use this ? any way we see fit." let's say it's the former: show your work! really, there's nowhere on the internet where you can't mine quotes from the NT that support awful ? ? come on, now.kingblaze84 wrote: »Using the Bible correctly means nothing when the words of the Bible encourage evil, and Jesus NOT ONCE criticized the Old Testament and went on to say it should always be honored.
-
Just because they had intentions on keeping slaves forever doesn't mean that was going to happen. Technological progress in agriculture and domestic services was bound to happen eventually and slavery would have become obsolete. That's not to say they wouldn't have continued to justify it with other reasoning, (RELIGION) but to act like America would have slaves in 2014 is absurd. And yes, the US did get pressure from European states to end slavery, most notably, the UK.soul rattler wrote: »
No. The reason why slavery and genocide no longer occurs in America is because it is no longer necessary. They got a huge chunk of land and as a nation, they would not be able to survive with a homogeneous population, which is why the government made sure to derail Marcus Garvey's movement. Also, Europe was already pressuring the U.S. to stop its fuckery, as slavery had already been outlawed in most European countries.kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »RELIGION HAS BEEN THE GREATEST THING IN HUMAN HISTORY.
Hell ? no, LOL......
When Christianity was big in America, America had govt sanctioned slavery, genocide, and oppression of people all over the western hemisphere. Religious fools in America and in Europe used the Bible to justify all kinds of terrorism and evil. If the Bible or Abrahamic ? NEVER existed, human progress would have been accelerated. Muslim slave traders used the Koran to ruin lives all over Africa and the Middle East, while Europeans used the Bible to ruin lives all over the world. Organized religion has been one of the WORST things to ever happen to humans.
Humans don't need religion to be civilized, that myth has been broken already, catch up.
Was big in America??? Christianity is still big in America. And most abolitionist were Christian but you are correct the bible was misused . But from a totally objective standpoint religion has done more good.
You hate the ? of Abraham but I am
Talking about religion period not just the religion you hate
Christianity is "big" in America on a shallow level, most Christians do not take the Bible here seriously. But back when Americans DID take the Bible seriously (in larger numbers compared to now), American politicians EXPLICITLY used the Bible to support manfest destiny and slavery, oppression, and even stealing land. Now that Christianity isn't taken as seriously, people (for the most part) think these things are wrong in this country. I can post up quotes from various American politicians in the past who used the Bible to support everything I said.
And non religious people in America are 25% of the population now, that number would have been unthinkable just 25 years ago. I expect the number to grow as time goes on.
that's just your feelings and opinion which is cool i have no problem with that , but the reality is that the fact that christians in america are no longer practicing slavery and killing people for land only means that we are talking the words of christ more serious not less. You just have your own warped twisted perspective on a religion that you clearly don't understand.
and being non religious does not mean you don't believe in ? so your 25% number does not tell the full truth about how people really feel
Religion didn't make America better. Only after setting religion to the side did America progress.
THE SOUTH HAD ALL INTENTION OF KEEPING SLAVERY FOREVER with or without the economic need for it because slavery for the upper class was about more than just making money it became a social and cultural part of their existence. You sound like a confederate apologist, they often propose the lie that slavery would have ended eventually for economic reasons. Europe did not care if america continued slavery or not brazil had slavery for a long time after it ended in the usa and europe still did business with them.
AND I did not propose that slavery ended because of religion simply that religion did have a had in pushing it's end america has not set religion to the side like it or not there are millions and millions of religious people in america and that's not counting the people who don't follow one religion but still believe in some kind of ? .
The bolded made no ? sense you think the government derailed the garvey movement because they wanted blacks in america??? are you white????
Now if it was up to religion alone, hell yeah there would still be slavery. -
soul rattler wrote: »
Just because they had intentions on keeping slaves forever doesn't mean that was going to happen. Technological progress in agriculture and domestic services was bound to happen eventually and slavery would have become obsolete. That's not to say they wouldn't have continued to justify it with other reasoning, (RELIGION) but to act like America would have slaves in 2014 is absurd. And yes, the US did get pressure from European states to end slavery, most notably, the UK.soul rattler wrote: »
No. The reason why slavery and genocide no longer occurs in America is because it is no longer necessary. They got a huge chunk of land and as a nation, they would not be able to survive with a homogeneous population, which is why the government made sure to derail Marcus Garvey's movement. Also, Europe was already pressuring the U.S. to stop its fuckery, as slavery had already been outlawed in most European countries.kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »RELIGION HAS BEEN THE GREATEST THING IN HUMAN HISTORY.
Hell ? no, LOL......
When Christianity was big in America, America had govt sanctioned slavery, genocide, and oppression of people all over the western hemisphere. Religious fools in America and in Europe used the Bible to justify all kinds of terrorism and evil. If the Bible or Abrahamic ? NEVER existed, human progress would have been accelerated. Muslim slave traders used the Koran to ruin lives all over Africa and the Middle East, while Europeans used the Bible to ruin lives all over the world. Organized religion has been one of the WORST things to ever happen to humans.
Humans don't need religion to be civilized, that myth has been broken already, catch up.
Was big in America??? Christianity is still big in America. And most abolitionist were Christian but you are correct the bible was misused . But from a totally objective standpoint religion has done more good.
You hate the ? of Abraham but I am
Talking about religion period not just the religion you hate
Christianity is "big" in America on a shallow level, most Christians do not take the Bible here seriously. But back when Americans DID take the Bible seriously (in larger numbers compared to now), American politicians EXPLICITLY used the Bible to support manfest destiny and slavery, oppression, and even stealing land. Now that Christianity isn't taken as seriously, people (for the most part) think these things are wrong in this country. I can post up quotes from various American politicians in the past who used the Bible to support everything I said.
And non religious people in America are 25% of the population now, that number would have been unthinkable just 25 years ago. I expect the number to grow as time goes on.
that's just your feelings and opinion which is cool i have no problem with that , but the reality is that the fact that christians in america are no longer practicing slavery and killing people for land only means that we are talking the words of christ more serious not less. You just have your own warped twisted perspective on a religion that you clearly don't understand.
and being non religious does not mean you don't believe in ? so your 25% number does not tell the full truth about how people really feel
Religion didn't make America better. Only after setting religion to the side did America progress.
THE SOUTH HAD ALL INTENTION OF KEEPING SLAVERY FOREVER with or without the economic need for it because slavery for the upper class was about more than just making money it became a social and cultural part of their existence. You sound like a confederate apologist, they often propose the lie that slavery would have ended eventually for economic reasons. Europe did not care if america continued slavery or not brazil had slavery for a long time after it ended in the usa and europe still did business with them.
AND I did not propose that slavery ended because of religion simply that religion did have a had in pushing it's end america has not set religion to the side like it or not there are millions and millions of religious people in america and that's not counting the people who don't follow one religion but still believe in some kind of ? .
The bolded made no ? sense you think the government derailed the garvey movement because they wanted blacks in america??? are you white????
Now if it was up to religion alone, hell yeah there would still be slavery.
Lots of things that are obsolete but stay around your argument has no grounding. The south had already started to move slavery into other areas besides agriculture by the time the civil war began.
The so called pressure the Europeans applied amounted to nothing they still bought goods produced in southern states so foh white boy.
The notion that technological innovation increases the humanity we treat each other with is ? . And you points about religion are historically inaccurate because the abolitionist movement was loaded with religious people. -
soul rattler wrote: »
Just because they had intentions on keeping slaves forever doesn't mean that was going to happen. Technological progress in agriculture and domestic services was bound to happen eventually and slavery would have become obsolete. That's not to say they wouldn't have continued to justify it with other reasoning, (RELIGION) but to act like America would have slaves in 2014 is absurd. And yes, the US did get pressure from European states to end slavery, most notably, the UK.soul rattler wrote: »
No. The reason why slavery and genocide no longer occurs in America is because it is no longer necessary. They got a huge chunk of land and as a nation, they would not be able to survive with a homogeneous population, which is why the government made sure to derail Marcus Garvey's movement. Also, Europe was already pressuring the U.S. to stop its fuckery, as slavery had already been outlawed in most European countries.kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »RELIGION HAS BEEN THE GREATEST THING IN HUMAN HISTORY.
Hell ? no, LOL......
When Christianity was big in America, America had govt sanctioned slavery, genocide, and oppression of people all over the western hemisphere. Religious fools in America and in Europe used the Bible to justify all kinds of terrorism and evil. If the Bible or Abrahamic ? NEVER existed, human progress would have been accelerated. Muslim slave traders used the Koran to ruin lives all over Africa and the Middle East, while Europeans used the Bible to ruin lives all over the world. Organized religion has been one of the WORST things to ever happen to humans.
Humans don't need religion to be civilized, that myth has been broken already, catch up.
Was big in America??? Christianity is still big in America. And most abolitionist were Christian but you are correct the bible was misused . But from a totally objective standpoint religion has done more good.
You hate the ? of Abraham but I am
Talking about religion period not just the religion you hate
Christianity is "big" in America on a shallow level, most Christians do not take the Bible here seriously. But back when Americans DID take the Bible seriously (in larger numbers compared to now), American politicians EXPLICITLY used the Bible to support manfest destiny and slavery, oppression, and even stealing land. Now that Christianity isn't taken as seriously, people (for the most part) think these things are wrong in this country. I can post up quotes from various American politicians in the past who used the Bible to support everything I said.
And non religious people in America are 25% of the population now, that number would have been unthinkable just 25 years ago. I expect the number to grow as time goes on.
that's just your feelings and opinion which is cool i have no problem with that , but the reality is that the fact that christians in america are no longer practicing slavery and killing people for land only means that we are talking the words of christ more serious not less. You just have your own warped twisted perspective on a religion that you clearly don't understand.
and being non religious does not mean you don't believe in ? so your 25% number does not tell the full truth about how people really feel
Religion didn't make America better. Only after setting religion to the side did America progress.
THE SOUTH HAD ALL INTENTION OF KEEPING SLAVERY FOREVER with or without the economic need for it because slavery for the upper class was about more than just making money it became a social and cultural part of their existence. You sound like a confederate apologist, they often propose the lie that slavery would have ended eventually for economic reasons. Europe did not care if america continued slavery or not brazil had slavery for a long time after it ended in the usa and europe still did business with them.
AND I did not propose that slavery ended because of religion simply that religion did have a had in pushing it's end america has not set religion to the side like it or not there are millions and millions of religious people in america and that's not counting the people who don't follow one religion but still believe in some kind of ? .
The bolded made no ? sense you think the government derailed the garvey movement because they wanted blacks in america??? are you white????
Now if it was up to religion alone, hell yeah there would still be slavery.
Lots of things that are obsolete but stay around your argument has no grounding. The south had already started to move slavery into other areas besides agriculture by the time the civil war began.
The so called pressure the Europeans applied amounted to nothing they still bought goods produced in southern states so foh white boy.
The notion that technological innovation increases the humanity we treat each other with is ? . And you points about religion are historically inaccurate because the abolitionist movement was loaded with religious people.
I didn't say ? about humanity, you cracka ass cracka. I said technological innovation would have made slavery obsolate in agricultural AND domestic services. But props for repeating me and yet still disagreeing with me in one fell swoop.
And once again, you are in denial that servitude, slavery in real world terms, is the fundamental basis of Christianity. -
soul rattler wrote: »soul rattler wrote: »
Just because they had intentions on keeping slaves forever doesn't mean that was going to happen. Technological progress in agriculture and domestic services was bound to happen eventually and slavery would have become obsolete. That's not to say they wouldn't have continued to justify it with other reasoning, (RELIGION) but to act like America would have slaves in 2014 is absurd. And yes, the US did get pressure from European states to end slavery, most notably, the UK.soul rattler wrote: »
No. The reason why slavery and genocide no longer occurs in America is because it is no longer necessary. They got a huge chunk of land and as a nation, they would not be able to survive with a homogeneous population, which is why the government made sure to derail Marcus Garvey's movement. Also, Europe was already pressuring the U.S. to stop its fuckery, as slavery had already been outlawed in most European countries.kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »RELIGION HAS BEEN THE GREATEST THING IN HUMAN HISTORY.
Hell ? no, LOL......
When Christianity was big in America, America had govt sanctioned slavery, genocide, and oppression of people all over the western hemisphere. Religious fools in America and in Europe used the Bible to justify all kinds of terrorism and evil. If the Bible or Abrahamic ? NEVER existed, human progress would have been accelerated. Muslim slave traders used the Koran to ruin lives all over Africa and the Middle East, while Europeans used the Bible to ruin lives all over the world. Organized religion has been one of the WORST things to ever happen to humans.
Humans don't need religion to be civilized, that myth has been broken already, catch up.
Was big in America??? Christianity is still big in America. And most abolitionist were Christian but you are correct the bible was misused . But from a totally objective standpoint religion has done more good.
You hate the ? of Abraham but I am
Talking about religion period not just the religion you hate
Christianity is "big" in America on a shallow level, most Christians do not take the Bible here seriously. But back when Americans DID take the Bible seriously (in larger numbers compared to now), American politicians EXPLICITLY used the Bible to support manfest destiny and slavery, oppression, and even stealing land. Now that Christianity isn't taken as seriously, people (for the most part) think these things are wrong in this country. I can post up quotes from various American politicians in the past who used the Bible to support everything I said.
And non religious people in America are 25% of the population now, that number would have been unthinkable just 25 years ago. I expect the number to grow as time goes on.
that's just your feelings and opinion which is cool i have no problem with that , but the reality is that the fact that christians in america are no longer practicing slavery and killing people for land only means that we are talking the words of christ more serious not less. You just have your own warped twisted perspective on a religion that you clearly don't understand.
and being non religious does not mean you don't believe in ? so your 25% number does not tell the full truth about how people really feel
Religion didn't make America better. Only after setting religion to the side did America progress.
THE SOUTH HAD ALL INTENTION OF KEEPING SLAVERY FOREVER with or without the economic need for it because slavery for the upper class was about more than just making money it became a social and cultural part of their existence. You sound like a confederate apologist, they often propose the lie that slavery would have ended eventually for economic reasons. Europe did not care if america continued slavery or not brazil had slavery for a long time after it ended in the usa and europe still did business with them.
AND I did not propose that slavery ended because of religion simply that religion did have a had in pushing it's end america has not set religion to the side like it or not there are millions and millions of religious people in america and that's not counting the people who don't follow one religion but still believe in some kind of ? .
The bolded made no ? sense you think the government derailed the garvey movement because they wanted blacks in america??? are you white????
Now if it was up to religion alone, hell yeah there would still be slavery.
Lots of things that are obsolete but stay around your argument has no grounding. The south had already started to move slavery into other areas besides agriculture by the time the civil war began.
The so called pressure the Europeans applied amounted to nothing they still bought goods produced in southern states so foh white boy.
The notion that technological innovation increases the humanity we treat each other with is ? . And you points about religion are historically inaccurate because the abolitionist movement was loaded with religious people.
I didn't say ? about humanity, you cracka ass cracka. I said technological innovation would have made slavery obsolate in agricultural AND domestic services. But props for repeating me and yet still disagreeing with me in one fell swoop.
And once again, you are in denial that servitude, slavery in real world terms, is the fundamental basis of Christianity.
Lol at how stupid you are there is no proof that technological innovation would have ended slavery. Period. Anyway I don't talk to non blacks about slavery so this will be my last reply to you -
the Trinity concept is not the exact same thing as saying "Pizarro quoted Jesus." if Pizarro (or whoever) cited Jesus, PROVIDE THE CITATION. if they used an Old Testament reference, that's what we should be calling it, or a reference to Paul or whoever. let's have accuracy over sensationalism?kingblaze84 wrote: »According to Christians, Jesus is the Old Testament ? lol, so YES, Pizarro and Columbus did use the words of Jesus to support atrocities.
look, if you want an example, tell me how Christians handle the many small restrictions on diet and so on that are explicitly spelled out in the OT.kingblaze84 wrote: »If Jesus went on record to say the Old Testament should not be taken seriously and should not be listened to, Christian ? would have had less justification to commit terrorism for hundreds of years onward. The damage ? Christians did for many, many years will live on for a long time. Also, the New Testament never said the Old Testament was wrong-
however, the POINT is that there is a difference between "this scripture, stated correctly and used sincerely, supports atrocity X" and "well, we'll use this ? any way we see fit." let's say it's the former: show your work! really, there's nowhere on the internet where you can't mine quotes from the NT that support awful ? ? come on, now.kingblaze84 wrote: »Using the Bible correctly means nothing when the words of the Bible encourage evil, and Jesus NOT ONCE criticized the Old Testament and went on to say it should always be honored.
Sounds nice and dandy but the reality is that HEADS OF CHURCHES FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS said everything I said. Many popes and many heads of protestant churches gave their full and explicit endorsement of slavery and genocides against people who were non Christian, by using many Bible passages. I'm sure some Christian terrorists twisted the words of the Bible, but they often didn't have to. There's a reason many heads of protestant and Catholic Churches endorsed the violent spread of Christianity and slavery for such a long time. Not a coincidence, these people truly believed they were doing ? 's work.
And the Old Testament ? is Jesus according to Christians, so there you have it. -
They endorsed the violent thread of Christianity for money and power because even when leaders of the church spoke against it people still did
it . -
kingblaze84 wrote: »
the Trinity concept is not the exact same thing as saying "Pizarro quoted Jesus." if Pizarro (or whoever) cited Jesus, PROVIDE THE CITATION. if they used an Old Testament reference, that's what we should be calling it, or a reference to Paul or whoever. let's have accuracy over sensationalism?kingblaze84 wrote: »According to Christians, Jesus is the Old Testament ? lol, so YES, Pizarro and Columbus did use the words of Jesus to support atrocities.
look, if you want an example, tell me how Christians handle the many small restrictions on diet and so on that are explicitly spelled out in the OT.kingblaze84 wrote: »If Jesus went on record to say the Old Testament should not be taken seriously and should not be listened to, Christian ? would have had less justification to commit terrorism for hundreds of years onward. The damage ? Christians did for many, many years will live on for a long time. Also, the New Testament never said the Old Testament was wrong-
however, the POINT is that there is a difference between "this scripture, stated correctly and used sincerely, supports atrocity X" and "well, we'll use this ? any way we see fit." let's say it's the former: show your work! really, there's nowhere on the internet where you can't mine quotes from the NT that support awful ? ? come on, now.kingblaze84 wrote: »Using the Bible correctly means nothing when the words of the Bible encourage evil, and Jesus NOT ONCE criticized the Old Testament and went on to say it should always be honored.
Sounds nice and dandy but the reality is that HEADS OF CHURCHES FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS said everything I said. Many popes and many heads of protestant churches gave their full and explicit endorsement of slavery and genocides against people who were non Christian, by using many Bible passages. I'm sure some Christian terrorists twisted the words of the Bible, but they often didn't have to. There's a reason many heads of protestant and Catholic Churches endorsed the violent spread of Christianity and slavery for such a long time. Not a coincidence, these people truly believed they were doing ? 's work.
And the Old Testament ? is Jesus according to Christians, so there you have it.
Correlation is not causation
