GnS Politics 2016: Death Penalty
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Pro-Life (Against death penalty)desertrain10 wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »Taken from another thread:*Bonus* Capital Punishment - Some people just NEED to die for their crimes. ? -a life in prison with no parole. Ted Bundy had to go. The DC sniper, too. Dylan Roof needs to be ? electrocuted with no sponge for that ? in Charleston. I don't think the death penalty should be applied in every homicide case, but there are some cases where that's the only punishment worth the crime. Frankly, I'm surprised that real Christians would be against it. Read the Bible. People got death for things a fuckload worse than murder back then: Theft, ? , ADULTERY, you name it.
The real problem with capital punishment in America is the incredibly slow legal system. I'd say, from sentence to execution should take no more than a year, tops, and all appeals must be 100% revisited in each detail to ensure no one is wrongfully executed. It doesn't take 30 years to exhaust appeals, it doesn't.
Thought the New Testament encourages believers to forgive; leave revenge and vengeance to ? ; do not repay evil with evil????
It encourages to live by the laws of the nation you reside in as much as possible but also try to live godly. The amount of Jewish traditionalv law that a Christian has to practice has been a matter of contention among Christians for centuries
But the New Testament derived from the teachings of Christ himself does encourage those values, correct?
Values that are indirect contention with the death penalty
I have seen nothing in the new testament that would indicate Jesus would be against the death penalty for unrepentant people.
What do you think was meant here then?4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
John 8:4-11 -
For Death Penalty (Courts/Jurors Decision)playmaker88 wrote: »Some people deserve horrible deaths.
They should die in the same manor they killed the victim -
I don't see how you could be for the death penalty, as a Black person, in this racist ? ' country.
I'm ok with the death penalty for any cop found guilty accused of any crime. -
For Death Penalty (Courts/Jurors Decision)Textbook case as to why people need to go for the ? they do:
Paul Warner Powell - Executed March 18, 2010
Powell described how he went to the home of 16 year old Stacie Reed because he was angry at her for having a black boyfriend. He attempted to ? her and then stabbed her in the heart when she fought off his advances. Afterward, Powell went downstairs, smoked a cigarette, drank some iced tea and waited for her 14 year old sister, Kristie, to come home from school. When she arrived, he ? her, slit her throat, stabbed her and left her for dead. When police reached her, they asked who had done this to her. Kristie mouthed two words: "Paul Powell." Kristie survived and testified against Powell. Powell's first capital murder conviction was thrown out on appeal when the court ruled that there was insufficient evidence to prove that he had attempted to ? Stacie. Believing he no longer could face a death sentence, he wrote the Prosecutor an abusive letter in which he admitted he attempted to ? Stacie and boasted about the crimes in horrific detail.
Letter that the saltine wrote to the prosecutor“Mr. Ebert,
“Since I have already been indicted on first degree murder and the Va. Supreme Court said that I can’t be charged with capital murder again, I figured I would tell you the rest of what happened on Jan. 29, 1999, to show you how stupid all of y’all mother ? are.
“Y’all should have known that there is more to the story than what I told by what I said. You had it in writing that I planned to ? the whole family. Since I planned to ? the whole family, why would I have fought with Stacie before killing her? She had no idea I was planning to ? everybody and talked and carried on like usual, so I could’ve stabbed her up at any time because she was unsuspecting.
“I had other plans for her before she died. You know I came back to the house after Bobby’s lunch break was over and he had went back to work. When I got back, she was on the phone so I went inside and I laid down on the couch. When the cab came to bring me my pager, I ran out of the house and she jumped and got off the phone and came off the porch to see why I ran out of the house like I did.
“When the cab left we went in the house. I laid on the couch again and she went to her room and got her clothes and went downstairs to do her laundry. When she went downstairs, I got up and shut and locked the back door and went downstairs. We talked while she put her clothes in the wash. We continued talking when she had everything in the wash and I reached over and touched her ? and asked if she wanted to ? . She said no, because she had a boyfriend.
“I started arguing with her because she had never turned anybody down because of having a boyfriend.
“We started walking upstairs, arguing the whole time. When we got upstairs we went to her room and she turned the radio off. After she turned the radio off I pushed her onto her bed and grabbed her wrists and pinned her hands down by her head and sat on top of her. I told her that all I wanted to do was ? her and then I would leave and that we could do it the easy way or the hard way.
“She said she would ? me so I got up. After I got up, she got up and started fighting with me and clawed me face. We wrestled around a little and then I slammed her to the floor. When she hit the floor I sat on top of her and pinned her hands down again. She said she would ? me and I told her that if she tried fighting with me again, I would ? her.
“When I got up she stood up and kept asking me why I was doing this and all I kept saying is take your clothes off. Finally she undid her pants and pulled them down to her ankles. She was getting ready to take them the rest of the way off and the phone rang. When she heard the phone she pulled her pants back up and said she had to answer the phone. I pushed her back and said no. She said that she wouldn’t say anything about me being there and I told her no and to take her clothes off.
“She tried to get out of the room again and I pushed her back and pulled out my knife. I guess she thought I was just trying to scare her and that I wouldn’t really stab her because she tried to leave again.
“When she got to me and tried to squeeze between me and the door jam I stabbed her. When I stabbed her, she fell back against the door jam and just looked at me with a shocked look on her face.
“When I pulled the knife out she stumbled a couple steps and fell in her sister’s room. I walked over and looked at her. I saw that she was still breathing so I stepped over her body and into the bedroom. Then I put my foot on her throat and stepped up so she couldn’t breath. Then I stepped down and started stomping on her throat. Then I stepped back onto her throat and moved up and down putting more pressure to make it harder to breathe.
“When I didn’t see her breathing anymore, I left the room and got some iced tea and sat on the couch and smoked a cigarette. You know the rest of what happened after that point.
“I would like to thank you for saving my life. I know you’re probably wondering how you saved my life, so I’ll tell you.
“You saved my life by ? up. There were 2 main ? -ups you made that saved me. The first was the way you worded my capital murder indictment. The second was the comment you made in your closing argument when you said we won’t know because he won’t tell us.
“One more time, thank you! Now y’all know everything that happened in that house at 8023 McLean St. on Jan. 29, 1999.
“I guess I forgot to mention these events when I was being questioned. Ha Ha! Sike!
“I knew what y’all would be able to prove in court, so I told you what you already knew. Stacey was dead and no one else was in the house so I knew ya’ll would never know everything she went through unless she came back to life.
“Since the Supreme Court said I can’t be charged with capital murder again, I can tell you what I just told you because I no longer have to worry about the death penalty. And y’all are supposed to be so ? smart. I can’t believe that y’all thought I told you everything.
“Well, it’s too late now. Nothing you can do about it now so ? you you fat, ? , cumguzzling, gutter ? . I guess I’ll see your ? ass on Dec. 18 at trial because I’m not pleading to ? . Tell the family to be ready to testify and relive it all again because if I have to suffer for the next 50 or 60 years or however long then they can suffer the torment of reliving what happened for a couple of days.
“I’m gone. ? you and anyone like you or that associates with people like you. I almost forgot, ? your ? , too. Jesus knows how to suck a ? real good. Did you teach him?
“Well, die a slow, painful, miserable death. See ya punk.
“Do you just hate yourself for being so stupid and for ? ’ up and saving me?
“Sincerely,
“Paul Powell.”
Pic of said dead, racist, idiot saltine...
You trying to tell me THIS muhfucker deserved to live after he pulled this ? ? Aight, then.....
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atribecalledgabi wrote: »BiblicalAtheist wrote: »Pedophiles, they gotta go.
Them and rapists ? closest to changing my tune
I would totally take the job gettin rid of pedophiles. -
Pro-Life (Against death penalty)The Government killing folks is not a good plan. Too many folks getting the death penalty because they couldnt properly be defended i. Court. I don't know any rich people within the last 200 years that got the death penalty. They all poor, mentally handicapped and ? like that.
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Pro-Life (Against death penalty)obnoxiouslyfresh wrote: »I just think there has to be another way, than to just ? someone. There has to be something valuable that can come from them. Force them to work for their meals, particularly in ways that could benefit society. There has to be some ? work they could do for free.Brother_Five wrote: »obnoxiouslyfresh wrote: »I just think there has to be another way, than to just ? someone. There has to be something valuable that can come from them. Force them to work for their meals, particularly in ways that could benefit society. There has to be some ? work they could do for free.
so slavery? interesting.obnoxiouslyfresh wrote: »Jameson_Porcupine wrote: »Lmao @ OB out here sentencing ? to community service for life
There has to be some ? out here besides making license plates that we all need, but no one wants to do. They should have to do that ? . Or not get dinner.
I like OB's idea better.
In cases where rehabilitation is not possible forced labor may be the better way to go instead of the death penalty. At least we get a return back on our investment.
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For Death Penalty (Courts/Jurors Decision)Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »
Thou shalt not ? .
Ex 20:13
Strongs # 07523 for "? " in that verse.
RATSACH
I.to murder, slay, ?
A.(Qal) to murder, slay
i.premeditated
ii.accidental
iii.as avenger
iv.slayer (intentional) (participle)
B.(Niphal) to be slain
C.(Piel)
i.to murder, assassinate
ii.murderer, assassin (participle)(subst)
D.(Pual) to be killed
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
רָצַח râtsach, raw-tsakh'; a primitive root; properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. ? (a human being), especially to murder:—put to death, ? , (man-) slay(-er), murder(-er).
There is a difference in context you cannot just go by dictionary definitions outside of context. If people followed context they would be a lot less confused
That is the strongs number and definition used for that exact verse tho.....
So the definition given by strongs is in linev with what I said.
If you were quoting from exodus 20:13, yes sir.
From the wiki:
Unlike other Biblical reference books, the purpose of Strong's Concordance is not to provide content or commentary about the Bible, but to provide an index to the Bible.
Pretty much the only versions of the Bible that translate it as "Thou Shalt Not ? " is the KJV or variants of it. Go look in the NIV or NKJV or any other book that focuses on accuracy and you'll see it translated as "You shall not murder" or "You shall not commit murder." Again, it's silly to believe that ? commanded people not to ? considering how much he helped them do just that. Hell, in Deuteronomy ? specifically tells the Israelites to ? everyone they come across when they got to the promised land.
On topic, I don't see how anyone can say the Death Penalty is cruel. Being caged for the rest of your life, sometimes in solitary confinement is way more cruel. Every living thing dies. That's a natural part of life. Being trapped in a box for 23 hours a day is as unnatural as it gets for human beings. -
Pro-Life (Against death penalty)obnoxiouslyfresh wrote: »I just think there has to be another way, than to just ? someone. There has to be something valuable that can come from them. Force them to work for their meals, particularly in ways that could benefit society. There has to be some ? work they could do for free.
That ? happens already. Prison systems been pimping out inmates for all sorts of work, word to the inmates fighting fires in Arizona and California.
That prison industry complex is embedded deep in the American capitalist system. -
For Death Penalty (Victims family's decision)Judge_Judah wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »Taken from another thread:*Bonus* Capital Punishment - Some people just NEED to die for their crimes. ? -a life in prison with no parole. Ted Bundy had to go. The DC sniper, too. Dylan Roof needs to be ? electrocuted with no sponge for that ? in Charleston. I don't think the death penalty should be applied in every homicide case, but there are some cases where that's the only punishment worth the crime. Frankly, I'm surprised that real Christians would be against it. Read the Bible. People got death for things a fuckload worse than murder back then: Theft, ? , ADULTERY, you name it.
The real problem with capital punishment in America is the incredibly slow legal system. I'd say, from sentence to execution should take no more than a year, tops, and all appeals must be 100% revisited in each detail to ensure no one is wrongfully executed. It doesn't take 30 years to exhaust appeals, it doesn't.
Thought the New Testament encourages believers to forgive; leave revenge and vengeance to ? ; do not repay evil with evil????
It encourages to live by the laws of the nation you reside in as much as possible but also try to live godly. The amount of Jewish traditionalv law that a Christian has to practice has been a matter of contention among Christians for centuries
But the New Testament derived from the teachings of Christ himself does encourage those values, correct?
Values that are indirect contention with the death penalty
I have seen nothing in the new testament that would indicate Jesus would be against the death penalty for unrepentant people.
What do you think was meant here then?4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
John 8:4-11
i said i can find nothing that indicates jesus would be against the death penalty for " UNREPENTANT PEOPLE". the ? in that story was saved but she was told to stop sinning, that incident was an attempt by the pharisees to get jesus to break old testament law but that aspect of the law has to be carried out under state sanction not by a rabble of men. they would also have to stone the man they could not just stone her that would also be a violation.
he saved her because it was his right to do so and stoning her would have violated the law of moses. technically speaking jesus is coming back to basically bring about the slaughter of sinners and the physical salvation of this world so he is ultimately also punishing all sinners that ever lived with physical death and spiritual death -
For Death Penalty (Victims family's decision)desertrain10 wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »Taken from another thread:*Bonus* Capital Punishment - Some people just NEED to die for their crimes. ? -a life in prison with no parole. Ted Bundy had to go. The DC sniper, too. Dylan Roof needs to be ? electrocuted with no sponge for that ? in Charleston. I don't think the death penalty should be applied in every homicide case, but there are some cases where that's the only punishment worth the crime. Frankly, I'm surprised that real Christians would be against it. Read the Bible. People got death for things a fuckload worse than murder back then: Theft, ? , ADULTERY, you name it.
The real problem with capital punishment in America is the incredibly slow legal system. I'd say, from sentence to execution should take no more than a year, tops, and all appeals must be 100% revisited in each detail to ensure no one is wrongfully executed. It doesn't take 30 years to exhaust appeals, it doesn't.
Thought the New Testament encourages believers to forgive; leave revenge and vengeance to ? ; do not repay evil with evil????
It encourages to live by the laws of the nation you reside in as much as possible but also try to live godly. The amount of Jewish traditionalv law that a Christian has to practice has been a matter of contention among Christians for centuries
But the New Testament derived from the teachings of Christ himself does encourage those values, correct?
Values that are indirect contention with the death penalty
I have seen nothing in the new testament that would indicate Jesus would be against the death penalty for unrepentant people.
Again he encourages his followers to forgive; to leave the judgement of others to ? ; to not repay evil with evil
Murdering someone for essentially committing a sin when we are ourselves are sinners does not jive with the aforementioned
Than there is the story of how he stopped a woman from being stoned to death because she broke a law of the land
All of which says to me that Jesus would not be down for capital punishment
Most major religion leaders today oppose the death penalty
If most major religious leaders supported homosexual marriage it would matter nothing at all to ? his word is his word and on many things it is very clear and no amount of church leaders supporting sin can change that.
? instituted the death penalty. There is a whole book in the bible called judges Thou shalt not judge is taken out of context by people who don't understand scripture, you don't judge a person because unlike ? you cannot know the heart but you can judge human actions. ? gave israel a law system for a reason.
he saved that woman but under the law of moses she should not have been stoned in the first place because you have to stone the man and the woman. there was no man presented in that story -
Pro-Life (Against death penalty)desertrain10 wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »Taken from another thread:*Bonus* Capital Punishment - Some people just NEED to die for their crimes. ? -a life in prison with no parole. Ted Bundy had to go. The DC sniper, too. Dylan Roof needs to be ? electrocuted with no sponge for that ? in Charleston. I don't think the death penalty should be applied in every homicide case, but there are some cases where that's the only punishment worth the crime. Frankly, I'm surprised that real Christians would be against it. Read the Bible. People got death for things a fuckload worse than murder back then: Theft, ? , ADULTERY, you name it.
The real problem with capital punishment in America is the incredibly slow legal system. I'd say, from sentence to execution should take no more than a year, tops, and all appeals must be 100% revisited in each detail to ensure no one is wrongfully executed. It doesn't take 30 years to exhaust appeals, it doesn't.
Thought the New Testament encourages believers to forgive; leave revenge and vengeance to ? ; do not repay evil with evil????
It encourages to live by the laws of the nation you reside in as much as possible but also try to live godly. The amount of Jewish traditionalv law that a Christian has to practice has been a matter of contention among Christians for centuries
But the New Testament derived from the teachings of Christ himself does encourage those values, correct?
Values that are indirect contention with the death penalty
I have seen nothing in the new testament that would indicate Jesus would be against the death penalty for unrepentant people.
Again he encourages his followers to forgive; to leave the judgement of others to ? ; to not repay evil with evil
Murdering someone for essentially committing a sin when we are ourselves are sinners does not jive with the aforementioned
Than there is the story of how he stopped a woman from being stoned to death because she broke a law of the land
All of which says to me that Jesus would not be down for capital punishment
Most major religion leaders today oppose the death penalty
If most major religious leaders supported homosexual marriage it would matter nothing at all to ? his word is his word and on many things it is very clear and no amount of church leaders supporting sin can change that.
? instituted the death penalty. There is a whole book in the bible called judges Thou shalt not judge is taken out of context by people who don't understand scripture, you don't judge a person because unlike ? you cannot know the heart but you can judge human actions. ? gave israel a law system for a reason.
he saved that woman but under the law of moses she should not have been stoned in the first place because you have to stone the man and the woman. there was no man presented in that story
You are referring to Judges a book of the old testament....which I'm sure you don't totally adhere to
Regardless the old testament was just something temporary until the coming of Jesus ...the new testament is a guide to how followers should worship today
Look up Galatians 3:19-27
In the new testament nothing written one could interpret as Jesus being ok with the death penalty
Sure we can judge the actions of a person, but you aren't just advocating the condemnation of a person's actions, you are advocating the taking of that persons life...that's a big difference
And in the story doesn't jesus ask the first person without sin to throw the first stone? That says to me a sin is a sin. How can we righteously sentence a person to death when we all are sinners?
Than whose to say that a person who is on death row isn't repentant of their crimes? Just because they are death row doesn't mean they are not. And the criminal justice system doesn't care if that person is repentant once they've been sentenced to death. Most importantly who are we to rob them of the opportunity to repent and ask for forgiveness by cutting their life short
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For Death Penalty (Courts/Jurors Decision)Jesus also directs his people to obey the laws of the land. And he himself submits to the legal authorities of the day and ? allows him to receive the death penalty. It's not like the concept was around during Jesus' times. If Jesus or his followers were against the death penalty, that could have been expressed in the Bible, but it wasn't. Jesus' followers continuously point out that Jesus was wrongfully killed, but at no point do they ever speak out against the death penalty itself.
I'd agree that sometimes the death penalty is given out to liberally, but ya'll really trying to say that people like Dahmer, Bundy, and Gacy didn't deserve to die? -
Pro-Life (Against death penalty)The Lonious Monk wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »
Thou shalt not ? .
Ex 20:13
Strongs # 07523 for "? " in that verse.
RATSACH
I.to murder, slay, ?
A.(Qal) to murder, slay
i.premeditated
ii.accidental
iii.as avenger
iv.slayer (intentional) (participle)
B.(Niphal) to be slain
C.(Piel)
i.to murder, assassinate
ii.murderer, assassin (participle)(subst)
D.(Pual) to be killed
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
רָצַח râtsach, raw-tsakh'; a primitive root; properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. ? (a human being), especially to murder:—put to death, ? , (man-) slay(-er), murder(-er).
There is a difference in context you cannot just go by dictionary definitions outside of context. If people followed context they would be a lot less confused
That is the strongs number and definition used for that exact verse tho.....
So the definition given by strongs is in linev with what I said.
If you were quoting from exodus 20:13, yes sir.
From the wiki:
Unlike other Biblical reference books, the purpose of Strong's Concordance is not to provide content or commentary about the Bible, but to provide an index to the Bible.
Pretty much the only versions of the Bible that translate it as "Thou Shalt Not ? " is the KJV or variants of it. Go look in the NIV or NKJV or any other book that focuses on accuracy and you'll see it translated as "You shall not murder" or "You shall not commit murder." Again, it's silly to believe that ? commanded people not to ? considering how much he helped them do just that. Hell, in Deuteronomy ? specifically tells the Israelites to ? everyone they come across when they got to the promised land.
On topic, I don't see how anyone can say the Death Penalty is cruel. Being caged for the rest of your life, sometimes in solitary confinement is way more cruel. Every living thing dies. That's a natural part of life. Being trapped in a box for 23 hours a day is as unnatural as it gets for human beings.
And this is why....we should only use the KJV bible and strive to learn the Hebrew to be able to go back to the original.
Hebrew and English are very different. And that's why I keep my Strong's concordance on me to reference the original Hebrew words before they were translated. -
Pro-Life (Against death penalty)Judge_Judah wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »Taken from another thread:*Bonus* Capital Punishment - Some people just NEED to die for their crimes. ? -a life in prison with no parole. Ted Bundy had to go. The DC sniper, too. Dylan Roof needs to be ? electrocuted with no sponge for that ? in Charleston. I don't think the death penalty should be applied in every homicide case, but there are some cases where that's the only punishment worth the crime. Frankly, I'm surprised that real Christians would be against it. Read the Bible. People got death for things a fuckload worse than murder back then: Theft, ? , ADULTERY, you name it.
The real problem with capital punishment in America is the incredibly slow legal system. I'd say, from sentence to execution should take no more than a year, tops, and all appeals must be 100% revisited in each detail to ensure no one is wrongfully executed. It doesn't take 30 years to exhaust appeals, it doesn't.
Thought the New Testament encourages believers to forgive; leave revenge and vengeance to ? ; do not repay evil with evil????
It encourages to live by the laws of the nation you reside in as much as possible but also try to live godly. The amount of Jewish traditionalv law that a Christian has to practice has been a matter of contention among Christians for centuries
But the New Testament derived from the teachings of Christ himself does encourage those values, correct?
Values that are indirect contention with the death penalty
I have seen nothing in the new testament that would indicate Jesus would be against the death penalty for unrepentant people.
What do you think was meant here then?4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
John 8:4-11
i said i can find nothing that indicates jesus would be against the death penalty for " UNREPENTANT PEOPLE". the ? in that story was saved but she was told to stop sinning, that incident was an attempt by the pharisees to get jesus to break old testament law but that aspect of the law has to be carried out under state sanction not by a rabble of men. they would also have to stone the man they could not just stone her that would also be a violation.
he saved her because it was his right to do so and stoning her would have violated the law of moses. technically speaking jesus is coming back to basically bring about the slaughter of sinners and the physical salvation of this world so he is ultimately also punishing all sinners that ever lived with physical death and spiritual death
So is there a timeline on when you can be repentant? Not to say all murders, rapists, and molesters will change their ways and sincerely repent, but who are we as men and women to determine their time is up?
Based on The NT, no man is truly worthy to enact JUDGEMENT on another. Death comes to all regardless. And I'm sure prison for those types isn't a walk in the park anyway. -
For Death Penalty (Victims family's decision)desertrain10 wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »Taken from another thread:*Bonus* Capital Punishment - Some people just NEED to die for their crimes. ? -a life in prison with no parole. Ted Bundy had to go. The DC sniper, too. Dylan Roof needs to be ? electrocuted with no sponge for that ? in Charleston. I don't think the death penalty should be applied in every homicide case, but there are some cases where that's the only punishment worth the crime. Frankly, I'm surprised that real Christians would be against it. Read the Bible. People got death for things a fuckload worse than murder back then: Theft, ? , ADULTERY, you name it.
The real problem with capital punishment in America is the incredibly slow legal system. I'd say, from sentence to execution should take no more than a year, tops, and all appeals must be 100% revisited in each detail to ensure no one is wrongfully executed. It doesn't take 30 years to exhaust appeals, it doesn't.
Thought the New Testament encourages believers to forgive; leave revenge and vengeance to ? ; do not repay evil with evil????
It encourages to live by the laws of the nation you reside in as much as possible but also try to live godly. The amount of Jewish traditionalv law that a Christian has to practice has been a matter of contention among Christians for centuries
But the New Testament derived from the teachings of Christ himself does encourage those values, correct?
Values that are indirect contention with the death penalty
I have seen nothing in the new testament that would indicate Jesus would be against the death penalty for unrepentant people.
Again he encourages his followers to forgive; to leave the judgement of others to ? ; to not repay evil with evil
Murdering someone for essentially committing a sin when we are ourselves are sinners does not jive with the aforementioned
Than there is the story of how he stopped a woman from being stoned to death because she broke a law of the land
All of which says to me that Jesus would not be down for capital punishment
Most major religion leaders today oppose the death penalty
If most major religious leaders supported homosexual marriage it would matter nothing at all to ? his word is his word and on many things it is very clear and no amount of church leaders supporting sin can change that.
? instituted the death penalty. There is a whole book in the bible called judges Thou shalt not judge is taken out of context by people who don't understand scripture, you don't judge a person because unlike ? you cannot know the heart but you can judge human actions. ? gave israel a law system for a reason.
he saved that woman but under the law of moses she should not have been stoned in the first place because you have to stone the man and the woman. there was no man presented in that story
You are referring to Judges a book of the old testament....which I'm sure you don't totally adhere to
Regardless the old testament was just something temporary until the coming of Jesus ...the new testament is a guide to how followers should worship today
Look up Galatians 3:19-27
In the new testament nothing written one could interpret as Jesus being ok with the death penalty
Sure we can judge the actions of a person, but you aren't just advocating the condemnation of a person's actions, you are advocating the taking of that persons life...that's a big difference
And in the story doesn't jesus ask the first person without sin to throw the first stone? That says to me a sin is a sin. How can we righteously sentence a person to death when we all are sinners?
Than whose to say that a person who is on death row isn't repentant of their crimes? Just because they are death row doesn't mean they are not. And the criminal justice system doesn't care if that person is repentant once they've been sentenced to death. Most importantly who are we to rob them of the opportunity to repent and ask for forgiveness by cutting their life short
the old law was not washed away it was just perfected. JESUS 100% supported the old law and tried to show the jews the correct way to practice it. All sin is sin and unworthy of ? but all sins are not equal i can give you many scriptures from the new testament to prove this if you like. The new testament ? is the old testament ?
there is the human justice system and then their is the justice system of ? we need to understand the difference between the two. -
I'm gonna show you how wrong killing is by killing you!!
Lol ...... -
For Death Penalty (Victims family's decision)Judge_Judah wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »
Thou shalt not ? .
Ex 20:13
Strongs # 07523 for "? " in that verse.
RATSACH
I.to murder, slay, ?
A.(Qal) to murder, slay
i.premeditated
ii.accidental
iii.as avenger
iv.slayer (intentional) (participle)
B.(Niphal) to be slain
C.(Piel)
i.to murder, assassinate
ii.murderer, assassin (participle)(subst)
D.(Pual) to be killed
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
רָצַח râtsach, raw-tsakh'; a primitive root; properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. ? (a human being), especially to murder:—put to death, ? , (man-) slay(-er), murder(-er).
There is a difference in context you cannot just go by dictionary definitions outside of context. If people followed context they would be a lot less confused
That is the strongs number and definition used for that exact verse tho.....
So the definition given by strongs is in linev with what I said.
If you were quoting from exodus 20:13, yes sir.
From the wiki:
Unlike other Biblical reference books, the purpose of Strong's Concordance is not to provide content or commentary about the Bible, but to provide an index to the Bible.
Pretty much the only versions of the Bible that translate it as "Thou Shalt Not ? " is the KJV or variants of it. Go look in the NIV or NKJV or any other book that focuses on accuracy and you'll see it translated as "You shall not murder" or "You shall not commit murder." Again, it's silly to believe that ? commanded people not to ? considering how much he helped them do just that. Hell, in Deuteronomy ? specifically tells the Israelites to ? everyone they come across when they got to the promised land.
On topic, I don't see how anyone can say the Death Penalty is cruel. Being caged for the rest of your life, sometimes in solitary confinement is way more cruel. Every living thing dies. That's a natural part of life. Being trapped in a box for 23 hours a day is as unnatural as it gets for human beings.
And this is why....we should only use the KJV bible and strive to learn the Hebrew to be able to go back to the original.
Hebrew and English are very different. And that's why I keep my strings on me to reference the original Hebrew words before the translation.
absolutely not. -
For Death Penalty (Victims family's decision)Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »Taken from another thread:*Bonus* Capital Punishment - Some people just NEED to die for their crimes. ? -a life in prison with no parole. Ted Bundy had to go. The DC sniper, too. Dylan Roof needs to be ? electrocuted with no sponge for that ? in Charleston. I don't think the death penalty should be applied in every homicide case, but there are some cases where that's the only punishment worth the crime. Frankly, I'm surprised that real Christians would be against it. Read the Bible. People got death for things a fuckload worse than murder back then: Theft, ? , ADULTERY, you name it.
The real problem with capital punishment in America is the incredibly slow legal system. I'd say, from sentence to execution should take no more than a year, tops, and all appeals must be 100% revisited in each detail to ensure no one is wrongfully executed. It doesn't take 30 years to exhaust appeals, it doesn't.
Thought the New Testament encourages believers to forgive; leave revenge and vengeance to ? ; do not repay evil with evil????
It encourages to live by the laws of the nation you reside in as much as possible but also try to live godly. The amount of Jewish traditionalv law that a Christian has to practice has been a matter of contention among Christians for centuries
But the New Testament derived from the teachings of Christ himself does encourage those values, correct?
Values that are indirect contention with the death penalty
I have seen nothing in the new testament that would indicate Jesus would be against the death penalty for unrepentant people.
What do you think was meant here then?4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? 6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. 7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. 8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. 9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? 11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
John 8:4-11
i said i can find nothing that indicates jesus would be against the death penalty for " UNREPENTANT PEOPLE". the ? in that story was saved but she was told to stop sinning, that incident was an attempt by the pharisees to get jesus to break old testament law but that aspect of the law has to be carried out under state sanction not by a rabble of men. they would also have to stone the man they could not just stone her that would also be a violation.
he saved her because it was his right to do so and stoning her would have violated the law of moses. technically speaking jesus is coming back to basically bring about the slaughter of sinners and the physical salvation of this world so he is ultimately also punishing all sinners that ever lived with physical death and spiritual death
So is there a timeline on when you can be repentant? Not to say all murders, rapists, and molesters will change their ways and sincerely repent, but who are we as men and women to determine their time is up?
Based on The NT, no man is truly worthy to enact JUDGEMENT on another. Death comes to all regardless. And I'm sure prison for those types isn't a walk in the park anyway.
The new testament expressly says that all are to try and obey the laws of the lands they live in and if the law says you are to die for an action then you die for that action. if you actually die or not is up to ? but the law is still the law
The law of the land determines when your time is up or the law of ? determines when your time is up. this is not rocket science. -
For Death Penalty (Victims family's decision)JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »I'm gonna show you how wrong killing is by killing you!!
Lol ......
That's not what capital punishment is for -
Pro-Life (Against death penalty)Judge_Judah wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »
Thou shalt not ? .
Ex 20:13
Strongs # 07523 for "? " in that verse.
RATSACH
I.to murder, slay, ?
A.(Qal) to murder, slay
i.premeditated
ii.accidental
iii.as avenger
iv.slayer (intentional) (participle)
B.(Niphal) to be slain
C.(Piel)
i.to murder, assassinate
ii.murderer, assassin (participle)(subst)
D.(Pual) to be killed
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
רָצַח râtsach, raw-tsakh'; a primitive root; properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. ? (a human being), especially to murder:—put to death, ? , (man-) slay(-er), murder(-er).
There is a difference in context you cannot just go by dictionary definitions outside of context. If people followed context they would be a lot less confused
That is the strongs number and definition used for that exact verse tho.....
So the definition given by strongs is in linev with what I said.
If you were quoting from exodus 20:13, yes sir.
From the wiki:
Unlike other Biblical reference books, the purpose of Strong's Concordance is not to provide content or commentary about the Bible, but to provide an index to the Bible.
Pretty much the only versions of the Bible that translate it as "Thou Shalt Not ? " is the KJV or variants of it. Go look in the NIV or NKJV or any other book that focuses on accuracy and you'll see it translated as "You shall not murder" or "You shall not commit murder." Again, it's silly to believe that ? commanded people not to ? considering how much he helped them do just that. Hell, in Deuteronomy ? specifically tells the Israelites to ? everyone they come across when they got to the promised land.
On topic, I don't see how anyone can say the Death Penalty is cruel. Being caged for the rest of your life, sometimes in solitary confinement is way more cruel. Every living thing dies. That's a natural part of life. Being trapped in a box for 23 hours a day is as unnatural as it gets for human beings.
And this is why....we should only use the KJV bible and strive to learn the Hebrew to be able to go back to the original.
Hebrew and English are very different. And that's why I keep my strings on me to reference the original Hebrew words before the translation.
absolutely not.
Explain to me how this makes sense?
In what language was the Tanakh in originally?
Who were the Masorets?
Wouldn't it make sense to be able to get as close to authentic as possible when it comes to the Holy Texts of the religion you ascribe to?
We are gonna have to agree to disagree there if think otherwise.... -
For Death Penalty (Victims family's decision)Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »Judge_Judah wrote: »
Thou shalt not ? .
Ex 20:13
Strongs # 07523 for "? " in that verse.
RATSACH
I.to murder, slay, ?
A.(Qal) to murder, slay
i.premeditated
ii.accidental
iii.as avenger
iv.slayer (intentional) (participle)
B.(Niphal) to be slain
C.(Piel)
i.to murder, assassinate
ii.murderer, assassin (participle)(subst)
D.(Pual) to be killed
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
רָצַח râtsach, raw-tsakh'; a primitive root; properly, to dash in pieces, i.e. ? (a human being), especially to murder:—put to death, ? , (man-) slay(-er), murder(-er).
There is a difference in context you cannot just go by dictionary definitions outside of context. If people followed context they would be a lot less confused
That is the strongs number and definition used for that exact verse tho.....
So the definition given by strongs is in linev with what I said.
If you were quoting from exodus 20:13, yes sir.
From the wiki:
Unlike other Biblical reference books, the purpose of Strong's Concordance is not to provide content or commentary about the Bible, but to provide an index to the Bible.
Pretty much the only versions of the Bible that translate it as "Thou Shalt Not ? " is the KJV or variants of it. Go look in the NIV or NKJV or any other book that focuses on accuracy and you'll see it translated as "You shall not murder" or "You shall not commit murder." Again, it's silly to believe that ? commanded people not to ? considering how much he helped them do just that. Hell, in Deuteronomy ? specifically tells the Israelites to ? everyone they come across when they got to the promised land.
On topic, I don't see how anyone can say the Death Penalty is cruel. Being caged for the rest of your life, sometimes in solitary confinement is way more cruel. Every living thing dies. That's a natural part of life. Being trapped in a box for 23 hours a day is as unnatural as it gets for human beings.
And this is why....we should only use the KJV bible and strive to learn the Hebrew to be able to go back to the original.
Hebrew and English are very different. And that's why I keep my strings on me to reference the original Hebrew words before the translation.
absolutely not.
Explain to me how this makes sense?
In what language was the Tanakh in originally?
Who were the Masorets?
Wouldn't it make sense to be able to get as close to authentic as possible when it comes to the Holy Texts of the religion you ascribe to?
We are gonna have to agree to disagree there if think otherwise....
As close to authentic as possible is not the ? king james bible it would be better to learn a ? version of aramaic -
Pro-Life (Against death penalty)Sentencing in the states is already so arbitrary, there's no reason for a judge to be able to have another form of punishment handy.
And if people really wanted torture, burning at the stake is what you would be looking for. A rare case where they actually burn before succumbing to smoke inhalation. -
Pro-Life (Against death penalty)I'm against it mainly because there's so much ? behind the death penalty such as the wrong person being excited, lack of or withheld evidence, ? up jurors/prosecutors etc., The more I think about it, a death penalty is a easy way out for the guilty person they should be forced to rot away in jail the rest of their life.
As bad as the legal/justice system is in America I don't get why the death penalty hasn't been abolished yet. You got innocent men sitting in prison 20, 30, 40+ yrs in jail based on bs technicalities/lack of evidence/bold statements but get released after new evidence is found or the original perp is caught. Then all the state does is offer a ? settlement for the years innocent people lost for nothing and have to go back into society and start over. -
For Death Penalty (Victims family's decision)? _i_look_like wrote: »Only reason Im kinda against the death penalty is because its the easy way out compared to life in prison.
i've never understood this logic.
breathing >>>> not breathing
the first little stint is gonna suck in prison, but eventually you get used to it and that becomes your life.. you adapt and then you enjoy little dumb ? like the dessert at meal time, instead of whatever you enjoyed on the outside, but you're still alive, and ABLE to "enjoy" things, and think, and everything.
