Who was the more dominant player? Jerry Rice or Michael Jordan?
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bow to royalty wrote: »Lotta talkin and not backin it up going on. I said why Rice was the most dominant in my eyes, and gave the numbers to prove it. All I've heard is he had good teammates and Jordan passed the eye test. I'm not saying y'all are wrong in your opinion just because it's different than mine, but damn...you gotta do better than that
Lol - You need me to show you stats that prove Jordan was dominant in the 90s???
For real, Bruh?
Compare him to the other all time stat leaders like I did Rice -
bow to royalty wrote: »Shizlansky wrote: »Rice 87 season was beastly. And they only played half the games that year because I think that was the strike year.
Ya, man. 12 game season with 22 TD's. Held the record until Moss put up 23 during the 18-1 year...in a 16 game season. I honestly think Rice was so good, that people can't get an accurate grip on it. NO ONE in the league has done anything close to him. I'm not saying Jordan wasn't dominant, but people haven't said ? to support that.
Really?
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bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Lotta talkin and not backin it up going on. I said why Rice was the most dominant in my eyes, and gave the numbers to prove it. All I've heard is he had good teammates and Jordan passed the eye test. I'm not saying y'all are wrong in your opinion just because it's different than mine, but damn...you gotta do better than that
Lol - You need me to show you stats that prove Jordan was dominant in the 90s???
For real, Bruh?
Compare him to the other all time stat leaders like I did Rice
1 - Clearly, stats don't tell the whole story.
As much as you would like to dismiss the eye-test; there is a truth in sports that you cannot capture with all the stats and analytics in the world.
That's why they play the game... that's why we watch it.
2- Era, competition, and context have to be taken into account.
Russel and Wilt dominated their eras ... But come on, fam - who were they up against?
Miss me with that ? .
3 - Regardless, Mike has more records and all around accomplishments than any other player in NBA History.
It's not just defense, scoring, or championships ... It's EVERYTHING ... performed in the most dominant fashion I've ever seen.
Off top and from 2 minutes on Wikepedia6 Rings, 6 FMVPs (NBA Record)
Led the NBA in scoring 10 Times (NBA Record)
30.12 PPG Regular Season (NBA Record)
33.5 PPG Playoffs (NBA Record)
8, 50+ Pt Playoff Games (NBA Record)
30 PPG On 50% shooting, 5 times (NBA Record)
4 Consecutive Games with 40+ PPG in the Finals
(NBA Record)
893 Blocks as a Guard (NBA Record)
200 Steals, 100 Blocks in a season, twice - as a Guard (NBA Record)
9 Seasons as Scoring Champion AND an All Defensive 1st Team Member (NBA Record)
Won Scoring Tile & DPOY in the same season (NBA Record)
Streak of 632 Games without losing 3 straight games (NBA Record)
Averaged 30-6-5-2 in Playoff Run, 7 times (NBA Record)
Only player in NBA history to lead a team to the championship with only one teammate averaging double figures in scoring -
Revolver Ocelot wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Shizlansky wrote: »Rice 87 season was beastly. And they only played half the games that year because I think that was the strike year.
Ya, man. 12 game season with 22 TD's. Held the record until Moss put up 23 during the 18-1 year...in a 16 game season. I honestly think Rice was so good, that people can't get an accurate grip on it. NO ONE in the league has done anything close to him. I'm not saying Jordan wasn't dominant, but people haven't said ? to support that.
Really?
He clearly dominated. That's why I chose him for the comparison, I'm just saying for a good sports debate you need better ? than the eye test, and saying he was more dominant just because. -
bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Lotta talkin and not backin it up going on. I said why Rice was the most dominant in my eyes, and gave the numbers to prove it. All I've heard is he had good teammates and Jordan passed the eye test. I'm not saying y'all are wrong in your opinion just because it's different than mine, but damn...you gotta do better than that
Lol - You need me to show you stats that prove Jordan was dominant in the 90s???
For real, Bruh?
Compare him to the other all time stat leaders like I did Rice
1 - Clearly, stats don't tell the whole story.
As much as you would like to dismiss the eye-test; there is a truth in sports that you cannot capture with all the stats and analytics in the world.
That's why they play the game... that's why we watch it.
2- Era, competition, and context have to be taken into account.
Russel and Wilt dominated their eras ... But come on, fam - who were they up against?
Miss me with that ? .
3 - Regardless, Mike has more records and all around accomplishments than any other player in NBA History.
It's not just defense, scoring, or championships ... It's EVERYTHING ... performed in the most dominant fashion I've ever seen.
Off top and from 2 minutes on Wikepedia6 Rings, 6 FMVPs (NBA Record)
Led the NBA in scoring 10 Times (NBA Record)
30.12 PPG Regular Season (NBA Record)
33.5 PPG Playoffs (NBA Record)
8, 50+ Pt Playoff Games (NBA Record)
30 PPG On 50% shooting, 5 times (NBA Record)
4 Consecutive Games with 40+ PPG in the Finals
(NBA Record)
893 Blocks as a Guard (NBA Record)
200 Steals, 100 Blocks in a season, twice - as a Guard (NBA Record)
9 Seasons as Scoring Champion AND an All Defensive 1st Team Member (NBA Record)
Won Scoring Tile & DPOY in the same season (NBA Record)
Streak of 632 Games without losing 3 straight games (NBA Record)
Averaged 30-6-5-2 in Playoff Run, 7 times (NBA Record)
Only player in NBA history to lead a team to the championship with only one teammate averaging double figures in scoring
1. I'm not dismissing it. They'll both pass the eye test. We're talking about Michael Jordan and Jerry Rice.
2. The era/comp/context works against your argument. Rice played in a harder era to be a receiver (illegal contact, protecting the QB, protecting WR's which opens the middle of the field). Look at the greatest recent receivers. Given their years in the league Antonio Brown is 773 yards and 41 touchdowns behind Rice. Julio Jones is 160 yards and 32 touchdowns behind Rice. -
bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Lotta talkin and not backin it up going on. I said why Rice was the most dominant in my eyes, and gave the numbers to prove it. All I've heard is he had good teammates and Jordan passed the eye test. I'm not saying y'all are wrong in your opinion just because it's different than mine, but damn...you gotta do better than that
Lol - You need me to show you stats that prove Jordan was dominant in the 90s???
For real, Bruh?
Compare him to the other all time stat leaders like I did Rice
1 - Clearly, stats don't tell the whole story.
As much as you would like to dismiss the eye-test; there is a truth in sports that you cannot capture with all the stats and analytics in the world.
That's why they play the game... that's why we watch it.
2- Era, competition, and context have to be taken into account.
Russel and Wilt dominated their eras ... But come on, fam - who were they up against?
Miss me with that ? .
3 - Regardless, Mike has more records and all around accomplishments than any other player in NBA History.
It's not just defense, scoring, or championships ... It's EVERYTHING ... performed in the most dominant fashion I've ever seen.
Off top and from 2 minutes on Wikepedia6 Rings, 6 FMVPs (NBA Record)
Led the NBA in scoring 10 Times (NBA Record)
30.12 PPG Regular Season (NBA Record)
33.5 PPG Playoffs (NBA Record)
8, 50+ Pt Playoff Games (NBA Record)
30 PPG On 50% shooting, 5 times (NBA Record)
4 Consecutive Games with 40+ PPG in the Finals
(NBA Record)
893 Blocks as a Guard (NBA Record)
200 Steals, 100 Blocks in a season, twice - as a Guard (NBA Record)
9 Seasons as Scoring Champion AND an All Defensive 1st Team Member (NBA Record)
Won Scoring Tile & DPOY in the same season (NBA Record)
Streak of 632 Games without losing 3 straight games (NBA Record)
Averaged 30-6-5-2 in Playoff Run, 7 times (NBA Record)
Only player in NBA history to lead a team to the championship with only one teammate averaging double figures in scoring
1. I'm not dismissing it. They'll both pass the eye test. We're talking about Michael Jordan and Jerry Rice.
2. The era/comp/context works against your argument. Rice played in a harder era to be a receiver (illegal contact, protecting the QB, protecting WR's which opens the middle of the field). Look at the greatest recent receivers. Given their years in the league Antonio Brown is 773 yards and 41 touchdowns behind Rice. Julio Jones is 160 yards and 32 touchdowns behind Rice.
Rice has over 200 TDs them ? ain't that close -
Shizlansky wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Lotta talkin and not backin it up going on. I said why Rice was the most dominant in my eyes, and gave the numbers to prove it. All I've heard is he had good teammates and Jordan passed the eye test. I'm not saying y'all are wrong in your opinion just because it's different than mine, but damn...you gotta do better than that
Lol - You need me to show you stats that prove Jordan was dominant in the 90s???
For real, Bruh?
Compare him to the other all time stat leaders like I did Rice
1 - Clearly, stats don't tell the whole story.
As much as you would like to dismiss the eye-test; there is a truth in sports that you cannot capture with all the stats and analytics in the world.
That's why they play the game... that's why we watch it.
2- Era, competition, and context have to be taken into account.
Russel and Wilt dominated their eras ... But come on, fam - who were they up against?
Miss me with that ? .
3 - Regardless, Mike has more records and all around accomplishments than any other player in NBA History.
It's not just defense, scoring, or championships ... It's EVERYTHING ... performed in the most dominant fashion I've ever seen.
Off top and from 2 minutes on Wikepedia6 Rings, 6 FMVPs (NBA Record)
Led the NBA in scoring 10 Times (NBA Record)
30.12 PPG Regular Season (NBA Record)
33.5 PPG Playoffs (NBA Record)
8, 50+ Pt Playoff Games (NBA Record)
30 PPG On 50% shooting, 5 times (NBA Record)
4 Consecutive Games with 40+ PPG in the Finals
(NBA Record)
893 Blocks as a Guard (NBA Record)
200 Steals, 100 Blocks in a season, twice - as a Guard (NBA Record)
9 Seasons as Scoring Champion AND an All Defensive 1st Team Member (NBA Record)
Won Scoring Tile & DPOY in the same season (NBA Record)
Streak of 632 Games without losing 3 straight games (NBA Record)
Averaged 30-6-5-2 in Playoff Run, 7 times (NBA Record)
Only player in NBA history to lead a team to the championship with only one teammate averaging double figures in scoring
1. I'm not dismissing it. They'll both pass the eye test. We're talking about Michael Jordan and Jerry Rice.
2. The era/comp/context works against your argument. Rice played in a harder era to be a receiver (illegal contact, protecting the QB, protecting WR's which opens the middle of the field). Look at the greatest recent receivers. Given their years in the league Antonio Brown is 773 yards and 41 touchdowns behind Rice. Julio Jones is 160 yards and 32 touchdowns behind Rice.
Rice has over 200 TDs them ? ain't that close
I meant what his numbers were like when he had the same number of seasoms under his belt that they do right now -
Lebron
#CLE
#CityofChampions
#PayHomage -
bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Lotta talkin and not backin it up going on. I said why Rice was the most dominant in my eyes, and gave the numbers to prove it. All I've heard is he had good teammates and Jordan passed the eye test. I'm not saying y'all are wrong in your opinion just because it's different than mine, but damn...you gotta do better than that
Lol - You need me to show you stats that prove Jordan was dominant in the 90s???
For real, Bruh?
Compare him to the other all time stat leaders like I did Rice
1 - Clearly, stats don't tell the whole story.
As much as you would like to dismiss the eye-test; there is a truth in sports that you cannot capture with all the stats and analytics in the world.
That's why they play the game... that's why we watch it.
2- Era, competition, and context have to be taken into account.
Russel and Wilt dominated their eras ... But come on, fam - who were they up against?
Miss me with that ? .
3 - Regardless, Mike has more records and all around accomplishments than any other player in NBA History.
It's not just defense, scoring, or championships ... It's EVERYTHING ... performed in the most dominant fashion I've ever seen.
Off top and from 2 minutes on Wikepedia6 Rings, 6 FMVPs (NBA Record)
Led the NBA in scoring 10 Times (NBA Record)
30.12 PPG Regular Season (NBA Record)
33.5 PPG Playoffs (NBA Record)
8, 50+ Pt Playoff Games (NBA Record)
30 PPG On 50% shooting, 5 times (NBA Record)
4 Consecutive Games with 40+ PPG in the Finals
(NBA Record)
893 Blocks as a Guard (NBA Record)
200 Steals, 100 Blocks in a season, twice - as a Guard (NBA Record)
9 Seasons as Scoring Champion AND an All Defensive 1st Team Member (NBA Record)
Won Scoring Tile & DPOY in the same season (NBA Record)
Streak of 632 Games without losing 3 straight games (NBA Record)
Averaged 30-6-5-2 in Playoff Run, 7 times (NBA Record)
Only player in NBA history to lead a team to the championship with only one teammate averaging double figures in scoring
1. I'm not dismissing it. They'll both pass the eye test. We're talking about Michael Jordan and Jerry Rice.
2. The era/comp/context works against your argument. Rice played in a harder era to be a receiver (illegal contact, protecting the QB, protecting WR's which opens the middle of the field). Look at the greatest recent receivers. Given their years in the league Antonio Brown is 773 yards and 41 touchdowns behind Rice. Julio Jones is 160 yards and 32 touchdowns behind Rice.
Clearly the NFL game has opened up and the volume of yards accrued and the number of points scored dwarfs what we saw in years past...
But the very same is true for the NBA.
Ever heard of the Jordan Rules?
IMO, the respective eras of both your candidates net out to a wash when compared to their competition within the sport.
The only reason I mentioned eras, is because it's only a matter of time before someone rolls out the championships and statistics of Wilt and Russel while neglecting the fact that they were playing against 5 Ft coal minors for decades.
That said, Rice and MJ's accomplishments and the way they dominated the game (eye test) are the differentiating factors in this argument.
I don't see how you deny Jordan given that context. -
bow to royalty wrote: »
Once Jordan reached the mountain top be never looked back (of course not counting the wizard years). 6 straight finals wins, plus any defender or team that challenged him got torched. The moment was never too big for him and he always delivered. That's dominance.
I love Rice and he was great, but I would argue that Randy Moss was more dominated than him. I don't recall Rice getting triple teamed at times and striking fear in the defense like Randy did. -
bow to royalty wrote: »Revolver Ocelot wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Shizlansky wrote: »Rice 87 season was beastly. And they only played half the games that year because I think that was the strike year.
Ya, man. 12 game season with 22 TD's. Held the record until Moss put up 23 during the 18-1 year...in a 16 game season. I honestly think Rice was so good, that people can't get an accurate grip on it. NO ONE in the league has done anything close to him. I'm not saying Jordan wasn't dominant, but people haven't said ? to support that.
Really?
He clearly dominated. That's why I chose him for the comparison, I'm just saying for a good sports debate you need better ? than the eye test, and saying he was more dominant just because.
The thing is you want a debate and clearly what everybody is telling you is that there's no debate. Jordan was a more dominate player than Jerry Rice. -
Revolver Ocelot wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Revolver Ocelot wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Shizlansky wrote: »Rice 87 season was beastly. And they only played half the games that year because I think that was the strike year.
Ya, man. 12 game season with 22 TD's. Held the record until Moss put up 23 during the 18-1 year...in a 16 game season. I honestly think Rice was so good, that people can't get an accurate grip on it. NO ONE in the league has done anything close to him. I'm not saying Jordan wasn't dominant, but people haven't said ? to support that.
Really?
He clearly dominated. That's why I chose him for the comparison, I'm just saying for a good sports debate you need better ? than the eye test, and saying he was more dominant just because.
The thing is you want a debate and clearly what everybody is telling you is that there's no debate. Jordan was a more dominate player than Jerry Rice.
I can respect picking Jordan. But back it up with something. In my OP I made it clear why I chose Rice. The greatest to every play regardless of era are nowhere near what he's done.
Side note. If you aren't at least like 35, I don't want to hear ? about a Jordan eye test -
Don't even bother debating them bow, the ignorance is too strong.
The answer is Jerry Rice.
Too many people here acting like Jordan is an untouchable ? when Kareem and Magic are clearly in the conversation and LeBron is doing stuff no one else has ever done. There are clearly equals or at the very least there is a debate between Jordan and others. No one serious is debating Jerry Rice vs. anybody for a whole career.
Dudes on here talking about not be able to name any athletes more dominant than Jordan. Forget just the basketball debate, here's a few off the top of the dome that easily equal, if not best Jordan in dominance:
Wayne Gretzky
Pele/Maradona
Barry Bonds
Michael Phelps
And don't forget what Ali could have done in his prime if he had those 3 years back...
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the_focused_one wrote: »Don't even bother debating them bow, the ignorance is too strong.
The answer is Jerry Rice.
Too many people here acting like Jordan is an untouchable ? when Kareem and Magic are clearly in the conversation and LeBron is doing stuff no one else has ever done. There are clearly equals or at the very least there is a debate between Jordan and others. No one serious is debating Jerry Rice vs. anybody for a whole career.
Dudes on here talking about not be able to name any athletes more dominant than Jordan. Forget just the basketball debate, here's a few off the top of the dome that easily equal, if not best Jordan in dominance:
Wayne Gretzky
Pele/Maradona
Barry Bonds
Michael Phelps
And don't forget what Ali could have done in his prime if he had those 3 years back...
Bruh, I tried in the OP to show how insane his career was. People are hating on Rice in here. Most yards from scrimmage in NFL history (and everyone else in the top 10 is a RB, showing how hard it is to do that as a WR), and most career TD's. I even showed how no WR in the history of the league can come close to what he's done. But ? that right? Jerry failed (and Jordan passed) their eyeball test, that they were probably actually too young to give. But ok...
So
-Most yards in NFL history
-Most touchdowns in NFL history
-Most catches in NFL history
-Most receiving yards in NFL history
-Most receiving touchdowns in NFL history
And most of those records have a comfortable lead on second place.
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I think we have to separate dominance at their position vs dominance as a player. For example...
The difference in history between Jerry Rice vs. Receiver #2 is larger than the difference between Jordan and SG #2 (probably Kobe)
But while most people say Jordan is the GOAT NBA player, most people wouldn't say Rice is the GOAT NFL player. So it is kinda hard to discuss dominance over the league when a WR inherently doesn't have the impact that a wing player does in the NBA.
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I think we have to separate dominance at their position vs dominance as a player. For example...
The difference in history between Jerry Rice vs. Receiver #2 is larger than the difference between Jordan and SG #2 (probably Kobe)
But while most people say Jordan is the GOAT NBA player, most people wouldn't say Rice is the GOAT NFL player. So it is kinda hard to discuss dominance over the league when a WR inherently have the impact that a wing player does in the NBA.
Rice was voted the best nfl player of all time though. -
Shizlansky wrote: »I think we have to separate dominance at their position vs dominance as a player. For example...
The difference in history between Jerry Rice vs. Receiver #2 is larger than the difference between Jordan and SG #2 (probably Kobe)
But while most people say Jordan is the GOAT NBA player, most people wouldn't say Rice is the GOAT NFL player. So it is kinda hard to discuss dominance over the league when a WR inherently have the impact that a wing player does in the NBA.
Rice was voted the best nfl player of all time though.
By what poll?
And I highly doubt that represents general consensus... I've never heard anyone in my personal life say Rice was the best player of all time. That is usually reserved for a QB simply because of the greater impact on the game. -
I think we have to separate dominance at their position vs dominance as a player. For example...
The difference in history between Jerry Rice vs. Receiver #2 is larger than the difference between Jordan and SG #2 (probably Kobe)
But while most people say Jordan is the GOAT NBA player, most people wouldn't say Rice is the GOAT NFL player. So it is kinda hard to discuss dominance over the league when a WR inherently have the impact that a wing player does in the NBA.
Valid points. Thanks for making points instead of saying random ? like others in here have...talking about Rice like he was really good but not great.
I think a lot of people would give Rice the GOAT football player, but you're right, a lower percentage than what Jordan would get.
But I think we should acknowledge.some other factors. Basketball fans damn near only acknowledge the 80's and 90's. They say everything before doesn't count because there was no competition, and everything after they turn into their grandpa and start with that "back in the my day the league wasn't soft like this" ? . Rice will be compared to people as old as Jim Brown, and everyone since.
Finally Lebron is taking over MJ's GOAT spot. You may not think so, but you're on your way to being the old head that says Kareem/Wilt/Russell is the GOAT now, but nobody listens to him. These 12 year olds, in 10 years are going to call Bron the GOAT and back it up with facts and they eye test. Jerry doesn't have a LeBron right now. -
Jordan, Randy Moss is better than Rice
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Neophyte Wolfgang wrote: »Jordan, Randy Moss is better than Rice
No he's not. -
bow to royalty wrote: »Neophyte Wolfgang wrote: »Jordan, Randy Moss is better than Rice
No he's not.
Someone is clearly still clinging to their dreamcast...
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the_focused_one wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »Neophyte Wolfgang wrote: »Jordan, Randy Moss is better than Rice
No he's not.
Someone is clearly still clinging to their dreamcast...
Haha the Jerry Rice disrespect in here is making me lose respect for these people man. -
I say Jordan since the ball is in his hand more. Rice has to depend on his qb
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2stepz_ahead wrote: »This kinda ? question b/c Rice's production was largely based on 6 other guys doing their jobs before he could do his. If the qb and 5 lineman ain't worth ? then Rice isn't as production. Where as Jordan could take the ball and do whatever.
exactly what I was gonna say...
one is a choice the other controls the choice
Agree w all this...even a QB needs to depend on someone catching the ball..unless he gon run all the time...noone took over a game like MJ
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natural born sinners wrote: »2stepz_ahead wrote: »This kinda ? question b/c Rice's production was largely based on 6 other guys doing their jobs before he could do his. If the qb and 5 lineman ain't worth ? then Rice isn't as production. Where as Jordan could take the ball and do whatever.
exactly what I was gonna say...
one is a choice the other controls the choice
Agree w all this...even a QB needs to depend on someone catching the ball..unless he gon run all the time...noone took over a game like MJ
So players in team sports, can't be as dominant as athletes in individual sports?
