Straight Black Men Are the White People of Black People
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The reason the article title is worded the way it is is because they are in overdrive trying to emsculate and villianize the black man. And this type of ? in this opion piece is usually bought into by bitter sistas. Like someone else said there is a whole industry built around telling a certain segment of black women what they wanna hear.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-girl-responds-to-straight-black-men-are-the_us_59c630ede4b0f2df5e83ae88
“We all we got,” was the refrain and it has come to mean that our internal critiques from which we are disallowed must be met with swift and venomous retort, else all the work we’ve done to pretend we are well in order to prevail will become undone. The responses read like a parody themselves. It has been surreal. Every response could’ve easily been scripted for a White person to say in response to being accused a racist. When I read them, I recited the internal dialogues Black women have been having for years that halts us from ever addressing Black men about their shortcomings:
You have to be gentle when talking to Black men or they’ll be offended. You mean like White people?
They take offense to being called sexist, ignoring the basis for the assertion altogether. (Replace “sexist” with “racist.”) You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s divisive. You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s not all of them and that you must insert the word “some.” You mean like White people?
They’ll get angry and throw insults demeaning your intellect and credibility. You mean like White people?
They’ll list anecdotal examples of their positive interactions with you. You mean like White people?
They’ll patronize you with insincere praise, all the while defending their own honor and never taking accountability. You mean like White people?
They’ll list their own trials and oppression as proof that they couldn’t possibly oppress another. You mean like White people?
They will not listen. They can’t take accountability because that would cast them in a poor light. Their reputation is more paramount than your safety. You mean like White people?
They don’t see gender within our race. The’ll say we are one (race) or “we’re all we got.” You mean like White people?
They cannot denounce the throne of male privilege, so they deny it exists. : (Replace “male” with “White.”) You mean like...
I, as a Black woman, must fight the world all day long. It attacks my humanity, intellect, appearance, worthiness. It espouses misogyny, brute force, and bigotry. It condemns my very existence and questions my value before determining it for itself. It threatens me with public reprimand and hindrances if I am not docile and silent. But, when I’m home in the presence of Black men and women, I need to feel safe, understood, heard.
The only necessary and correct response to a Black woman’s lamentations is to listen. It is not to dismiss or find offense. It is not to center your own feelings and plight. It is not to rebut, refute, or refuse to accept. It is to hear her, make amends, and help her move through the pain. Whether you agree or not, recognize these concerns or not, experience these same grievances or not, are a woman yourself or not, this is the modus operandi. I have learned from this exchange that Black women are all we got, save a selection of Black men we can depend on as allies. (I’m so thankful my partner is my ally and is not above introspection and criticism; that he recognizes and maximizes his minimal privilege for my benefit and that of other Black women.) But, just like with White people, Black women must wear a guard of protection when encountering Black men until they prove themselves to be a safe place. -
Great read.
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Black women don't face any intraracial issues that they havent brought upon by their own actions or code of conduct.
Black women always want Black men to bear the blame for their problems while they never consider they are the architects of their personal hells.
Black women time and time again have stated that they don't owe black men anything. They have no obligation to us. The inverse is in effect as well. We have no obligation to them either.
Some ? somewhere catcalling some black woman on the street is not a WE issue, it is a YOU problem. I don't know him and I don't know you, so either get a restraining order, get some men that do care about you, or carry some pepper spray. But I'm not about to get into random altercations with ? on your behalf , putting my life and freedom on the line for someone who says I'm not even entitled to a smile. But they're entitled to my intervention?
Black females do not have one single issue that effects them that is caused by an institution or network of Black men. Anywhere. Full. ? . Stop.
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Ajackson17 wrote: »You have to be gentle when talking to Black men or they’ll be offended. You mean like White people?
They take offense to being called sexist, ignoring the basis for the assertion altogether. (Replace “sexist” with “racist.”) You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s divisive. You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s not all of them and that you must insert the word “some.” You mean like White people?
They’ll get angry and throw insults demeaning your intellect and credibility. You mean like White people?
They’ll list anecdotal examples of their positive interactions with you. You mean like White people?
They’ll patronize you with insincere praise, all the while defending their own honor and never taking accountability. You mean like White people?
They’ll list their own trials and oppression as proof that they couldn’t possibly oppress another. You mean like White people?
They will not listen. They can’t take accountability because that would cast them in a poor light. Their reputation is more paramount than your safety. You mean like White people?
They don’t see gender within our race. The’ll say we are one (race) or “we’re all we got.” You mean like White people?
They cannot denounce the throne of male privilege, so they deny it exists. : (Replace “male” with “White.”) You mean like...
This part was hilarious to me. So you don't have to watch your words without black women to avoid offending them? When you make generalizations about black women, they don't point out that it's not all black women? Black women don't use anecdotes to make their points? As a matter of fact you could pretty much put any group of people in that, but somehow this chick thinks that's good proof to say that black men are oppressive like white people. Ok... -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »You have to be gentle when talking to Black men or they’ll be offended. You mean like White people?
They take offense to being called sexist, ignoring the basis for the assertion altogether. (Replace “sexist” with “racist.”) You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s divisive. You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s not all of them and that you must insert the word “some.” You mean like White people?
They’ll get angry and throw insults demeaning your intellect and credibility. You mean like White people?
They’ll list anecdotal examples of their positive interactions with you. You mean like White people?
They’ll patronize you with insincere praise, all the while defending their own honor and never taking accountability. You mean like White people?
They’ll list their own trials and oppression as proof that they couldn’t possibly oppress another. You mean like White people?
They will not listen. They can’t take accountability because that would cast them in a poor light. Their reputation is more paramount than your safety. You mean like White people?
They don’t see gender within our race. The’ll say we are one (race) or “we’re all we got.” You mean like White people?
They cannot denounce the throne of male privilege, so they deny it exists. : (Replace “male” with “White.”) You mean like...
This part was hilarious to me. So you don't have to watch your words without black women to avoid offending them? When you make generalizations about black women, they don't point out that it's not all black women? Black women don't use anecdotes to make their points? As a matter of fact you could pretty much put any group of people in that, but somehow this chick thinks that's good proof to say that black men are oppressive like white people. Ok...
Maybe in your experiences, but I never seen black women go to the extent that black men have gone to proliferate the same generalizations. And these statements I have specifically seen from black men except the "Not All" statement. I'm looking at everyone's behavior and well, I think that black women are right on point on this. Black men are really dismissive. -
Ajackson17 wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »You have to be gentle when talking to Black men or they’ll be offended. You mean like White people?
They take offense to being called sexist, ignoring the basis for the assertion altogether. (Replace “sexist” with “racist.”) You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s divisive. You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s not all of them and that you must insert the word “some.” You mean like White people?
They’ll get angry and throw insults demeaning your intellect and credibility. You mean like White people?
They’ll list anecdotal examples of their positive interactions with you. You mean like White people?
They’ll patronize you with insincere praise, all the while defending their own honor and never taking accountability. You mean like White people?
They’ll list their own trials and oppression as proof that they couldn’t possibly oppress another. You mean like White people?
They will not listen. They can’t take accountability because that would cast them in a poor light. Their reputation is more paramount than your safety. You mean like White people?
They don’t see gender within our race. The’ll say we are one (race) or “we’re all we got.” You mean like White people?
They cannot denounce the throne of male privilege, so they deny it exists. : (Replace “male” with “White.”) You mean like...
This part was hilarious to me. So you don't have to watch your words without black women to avoid offending them? When you make generalizations about black women, they don't point out that it's not all black women? Black women don't use anecdotes to make their points? As a matter of fact you could pretty much put any group of people in that, but somehow this chick thinks that's good proof to say that black men are oppressive like white people. Ok...
Maybe in your experiences, but I never seen black women go to the extent that black men have gone to proliferate the same generalizations. And these statements I have specifically seen from black men except the "Not All" statement. I'm looking at everyone's behavior and well, I think that black women are right on point on this. Black men are really dismissive.
People in general are dismissive when being accused of something lol...this isn’t exclusive to black white or other....
Your tone makes it seem as this is exclusive to black men...or black men are more dismissive than black women...I don’t find that to be true -
jetlifebih wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »You have to be gentle when talking to Black men or they’ll be offended. You mean like White people?
They take offense to being called sexist, ignoring the basis for the assertion altogether. (Replace “sexist” with “racist.”) You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s divisive. You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s not all of them and that you must insert the word “some.” You mean like White people?
They’ll get angry and throw insults demeaning your intellect and credibility. You mean like White people?
They’ll list anecdotal examples of their positive interactions with you. You mean like White people?
They’ll patronize you with insincere praise, all the while defending their own honor and never taking accountability. You mean like White people?
They’ll list their own trials and oppression as proof that they couldn’t possibly oppress another. You mean like White people?
They will not listen. They can’t take accountability because that would cast them in a poor light. Their reputation is more paramount than your safety. You mean like White people?
They don’t see gender within our race. The’ll say we are one (race) or “we’re all we got.” You mean like White people?
They cannot denounce the throne of male privilege, so they deny it exists. : (Replace “male” with “White.”) You mean like...
This part was hilarious to me. So you don't have to watch your words without black women to avoid offending them? When you make generalizations about black women, they don't point out that it's not all black women? Black women don't use anecdotes to make their points? As a matter of fact you could pretty much put any group of people in that, but somehow this chick thinks that's good proof to say that black men are oppressive like white people. Ok...
Maybe in your experiences, but I never seen black women go to the extent that black men have gone to proliferate the same generalizations. And these statements I have specifically seen from black men except the "Not All" statement. I'm looking at everyone's behavior and well, I think that black women are right on point on this. Black men are really dismissive.
People in general are dismissive when being accused of something lol...this isn’t exclusive to black white or other....
Your tone makes it seem as this is exclusive to black men...or black men are more dismissive than black women...I don’t find that to be true
Just my observations. I can tell you no more than that. Not saying black women are benevolent and have the most empathy, but I'm looking from social media, to real life and etc that well black men are more the dismissive side than listening. -
I beg to differAjackson17 wrote: »jetlifebih wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »You have to be gentle when talking to Black men or they’ll be offended. You mean like White people?
They take offense to being called sexist, ignoring the basis for the assertion altogether. (Replace “sexist” with “racist.”) You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s divisive. You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s not all of them and that you must insert the word “some.” You mean like White people?
They’ll get angry and throw insults demeaning your intellect and credibility. You mean like White people?
They’ll list anecdotal examples of their positive interactions with you. You mean like White people?
They’ll patronize you with insincere praise, all the while defending their own honor and never taking accountability. You mean like White people?
They’ll list their own trials and oppression as proof that they couldn’t possibly oppress another. You mean like White people?
They will not listen. They can’t take accountability because that would cast them in a poor light. Their reputation is more paramount than your safety. You mean like White people?
They don’t see gender within our race. The’ll say we are one (race) or “we’re all we got.” You mean like White people?
They cannot denounce the throne of male privilege, so they deny it exists. : (Replace “male” with “White.”) You mean like...
This part was hilarious to me. So you don't have to watch your words without black women to avoid offending them? When you make generalizations about black women, they don't point out that it's not all black women? Black women don't use anecdotes to make their points? As a matter of fact you could pretty much put any group of people in that, but somehow this chick thinks that's good proof to say that black men are oppressive like white people. Ok...
Maybe in your experiences, but I never seen black women go to the extent that black men have gone to proliferate the same generalizations. And these statements I have specifically seen from black men except the "Not All" statement. I'm looking at everyone's behavior and well, I think that black women are right on point on this. Black men are really dismissive.
People in general are dismissive when being accused of something lol...this isn’t exclusive to black white or other....
Your tone makes it seem as this is exclusive to black men...or black men are more dismissive than black women...I don’t find that to be true
Just my observations. I can tell you no more than that. Not saying black women are benevolent and have the most empathy, but I'm looking from social media, to real life and etc that well black men are more the dismissive side than listening.
Women will listen to other women’s problems and men will listen to other men’s problems
Both parties have communication issues when it comes to the opposite sex especially in relationships....in fact most people confide in people outside of their relationship because when it comes to being accused most HUMANS don’t take that well not just the brothers ..it isn’t some huge land slide one sided problem...these are human social issues this isn’t exclusive to race or socio economic status....
I’m not negating or denying your experience, maybe the way in which you collected or remembered your experience may be faulty or not representative or similar to or something of the whole populations experience -
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jetlifebih wrote: »
I beg to differAjackson17 wrote: »jetlifebih wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »You have to be gentle when talking to Black men or they’ll be offended. You mean like White people?
They take offense to being called sexist, ignoring the basis for the assertion altogether. (Replace “sexist” with “racist.”) You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s divisive. You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s not all of them and that you must insert the word “some.” You mean like White people?
They’ll get angry and throw insults demeaning your intellect and credibility. You mean like White people?
They’ll list anecdotal examples of their positive interactions with you. You mean like White people?
They’ll patronize you with insincere praise, all the while defending their own honor and never taking accountability. You mean like White people?
They’ll list their own trials and oppression as proof that they couldn’t possibly oppress another. You mean like White people?
They will not listen. They can’t take accountability because that would cast them in a poor light. Their reputation is more paramount than your safety. You mean like White people?
They don’t see gender within our race. The’ll say we are one (race) or “we’re all we got.” You mean like White people?
They cannot denounce the throne of male privilege, so they deny it exists. : (Replace “male” with “White.”) You mean like...
This part was hilarious to me. So you don't have to watch your words without black women to avoid offending them? When you make generalizations about black women, they don't point out that it's not all black women? Black women don't use anecdotes to make their points? As a matter of fact you could pretty much put any group of people in that, but somehow this chick thinks that's good proof to say that black men are oppressive like white people. Ok...
Maybe in your experiences, but I never seen black women go to the extent that black men have gone to proliferate the same generalizations. And these statements I have specifically seen from black men except the "Not All" statement. I'm looking at everyone's behavior and well, I think that black women are right on point on this. Black men are really dismissive.
People in general are dismissive when being accused of something lol...this isn’t exclusive to black white or other....
Your tone makes it seem as this is exclusive to black men...or black men are more dismissive than black women...I don’t find that to be true
Just my observations. I can tell you no more than that. Not saying black women are benevolent and have the most empathy, but I'm looking from social media, to real life and etc that well black men are more the dismissive side than listening.
Women will listen to other women’s problems and men will listen to other men’s problems
Both parties have communication issues when it comes to the opposite sex especially in relationships....in fact most people confide in people outside of their relationship because when it comes to being accused most HUMANS don’t take that well not just the brothers ..it isn’t some huge land slide one sided problem...these are human social issues this isn’t exclusive to race or socio economic status....
I’m not negating or denying your experience, maybe the way in which you collected or remembered your experience may be faulty or not representative or similar to or something of the whole populations experience
It's a human thing, but in regards they are specifically talking about black men, because black men are their brothers, sons, fathers, grandfathers, uncles and so on. But the biggest piece of whats being done is that black men do abuse black women, definitely due to proximity and regards to poverty and patriarchal brainwashing and adopting some ways of European society. The reason that white people don't see oppression with other races especially black people is because their unaffected by it on a day to day basis, while men don't feel the true sting of sexism because it's not a day to day basis to them. This is the same way. Sit down and really listen to the sisters and you'll get a strong understanding what I'm trying to say. -
Ajackson17 wrote: »
The only necessary and correct response to a Black woman’s lamentations is to listen. It is not to dismiss or find offense. It is not to center your own feelings and plight. It is not to rebut, refute, or refuse to accept. It is to hear her, make amends, and help her move through the pain. Whether you agree or not, recognize these concerns or not, experience these same grievances or not, are a woman yourself or not, this is the modus operandi. I have learned from this exchange that Black women are all we got, save a selection of Black men we can depend on as allies. (I’m so thankful my partner is my ally and is not above introspection and criticism; that he recognizes and maximizes his minimal privilege for my benefit and that of other Black women.) But, just like with White people, Black women must wear a guard of protection when encountering Black men until they prove themselves to be a safe place.
Theres a famous quote by Stephen R. Covey
Understanding the nature of a forum is to reply, I think it took like 10 pages( out of those people who engaged) for someone to ask a question or step outside of themselves and be inquisitive.We typically seek first to be understood. Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply. They're either speaking or preparing to speak. They're filtering everything through their own paradigms, reading their autobiography into other people's lives.
I find that the bolded is the best answer for the grievances that are being expressed.
While I was a little perked up by the subject title, I wasn't really offended. As I reflected on my personal interactions with women that I've encountered in my walk of life.... I realize they've all been relatively pleasant no matter how close or far the relationship. I can confidently say that most of the women whom i engaged with/ girlfriends / coworkers (excluding moms because she's a given) had my back, and probably still will have my back.
With the amount of cringe worthy comments in this thread, I think deep down, they're guys in here that feel like "? .. if I don't control these "b*tches," they will destroy me". Like to the point where they take all grievances as personal attacks.... like "some white people" do.
while they're some wild women out their that aint ? , the key to discernment is listening with an intent to understand.
but I get it, engaging discourse with an intent to understand our counterpart is something not everyone is here for. -
Ajackson17 wrote: »http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/black-girl-responds-to-straight-black-men-are-the_us_59c630ede4b0f2df5e83ae88
“We all we got,” was the refrain and it has come to mean that our internal critiques from which we are disallowed must be met with swift and venomous retort, else all the work we’ve done to pretend we are well in order to prevail will become undone. The responses read like a parody themselves. It has been surreal. Every response could’ve easily been scripted for a White person to say in response to being accused a racist. When I read them, I recited the internal dialogues Black women have been having for years that halts us from ever addressing Black men about their shortcomings:
You have to be gentle when talking to Black men or they’ll be offended. You mean like White people?
They take offense to being called sexist, ignoring the basis for the assertion altogether. (Replace “sexist” with “racist.”) You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s divisive. You mean like White people?
They’ll say it’s not all of them and that you must insert the word “some.” You mean like White people?
They’ll get angry and throw insults demeaning your intellect and credibility. You mean like White people?
They’ll list anecdotal examples of their positive interactions with you. You mean like White people?
They’ll patronize you with insincere praise, all the while defending their own honor and never taking accountability. You mean like White people?
They’ll list their own trials and oppression as proof that they couldn’t possibly oppress another. You mean like White people?
They will not listen. They can’t take accountability because that would cast them in a poor light. Their reputation is more paramount than your safety. You mean like White people?
They don’t see gender within our race. The’ll say we are one (race) or “we’re all we got.” You mean like White people?
They cannot denounce the throne of male privilege, so they deny it exists. : (Replace “male” with “White.”) You mean like...
I, as a Black woman, must fight the world all day long. It attacks my humanity, intellect, appearance, worthiness. It espouses misogyny, brute force, and bigotry. It condemns my very existence and questions my value before determining it for itself. It threatens me with public reprimand and hindrances if I am not docile and silent. But, when I’m home in the presence of Black men and women, I need to feel safe, understood, heard.
The only necessary and correct response to a Black woman’s lamentations is to listen. It is not to dismiss or find offense. It is not to center your own feelings and plight. It is not to rebut, refute, or refuse to accept. It is to hear her, make amends, and help her move through the pain. Whether you agree or not, recognize these concerns or not, experience these same grievances or not, are a woman yourself or not, this is the modus operandi. I have learned from this exchange that Black women are all we got, save a selection of Black men we can depend on as allies. (I’m so thankful my partner is my ally and is not above introspection and criticism; that he recognizes and maximizes his minimal privilege for my benefit and that of other Black women.) But, just like with White people, Black women must wear a guard of protection when encountering Black men until they prove themselves to be a safe place.
? that ? . If it's BS, I'm calling it.
Anybody could draw contrasts and comparisons to some ? , that doesn't make it true.
It's about entitlement like somebody said earlier. She feels a Black man should be obligated to listen to a load of ? that's not necessarily true, and blames him for ? , without responding to it ? (Entitlement)
Seriously, ? this ignorant ? . -
Shuffington wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »
The only necessary and correct response to a Black woman’s lamentations is to listen. It is not to dismiss or find offense. It is not to center your own feelings and plight. It is not to rebut, refute, or refuse to accept. It is to hear her, make amends, and help her move through the pain. Whether you agree or not, recognize these concerns or not, experience these same grievances or not, are a woman yourself or not, this is the modus operandi. I have learned from this exchange that Black women are all we got, save a selection of Black men we can depend on as allies. (I’m so thankful my partner is my ally and is not above introspection and criticism; that he recognizes and maximizes his minimal privilege for my benefit and that of other Black women.) But, just like with White people, Black women must wear a guard of protection when encountering Black men until they prove themselves to be a safe place.
Theres a famous quote by Stephen R. Covey
Understanding the nature of a forum is to reply, I think it took like 10 pages( out of those people who engaged) for someone to ask a question or step outside of themselves and be inquisitive.We typically seek first to be understood. Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply. They're either speaking or preparing to speak. They're filtering everything through their own paradigms, reading their autobiography into other people's lives.
I find that the bolded is the best answer for the grievances that are being expressed.
While I was a little perked up by the subject title, I wasn't really offended. As I reflected on my personal interactions with women that I've encountered in my walk of life.... I realize they've all been relatively pleasant no matter how close or far the relationship. I can confidently say that most of the women whom i engaged with/ girlfriends / coworkers (excluding moms because she's a given) had my back, and probably still will have my back.
With the amount of cringe worthy comments in this thread, I think deep down, they're guys in here that feel like "? .. if I don't control these "b*tches," they will destroy me". Like to the point where they take all grievances as personal attacks.... like "some white people" do.
while they're some wild women out their that aint ? , the key to discernment is listening with an intent to understand.
but I get it, engaging discourse with an intent to understand our counterpart is something not everyone is here for.
Best reply. It's all about listening and trying to first view from the person's point of view and then step back and think deeply on what they have said. But I can get why the title would throw them off, it's really apart of our brain to defend itself, but sometimes we got to take me and I out of the picture to fully investigate the issue. -
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »I think it's the attitudes that black males have, it's not the actual institutions and power structure that Europeans have. But it's the downloading of their behavior.
Expound
Well, I kinda expounded in my previous post, but the fact is that if a black woman or women have an valid concern within our people, it would be overlooked as Europeans would overlook a very valid concern such as police brutality. Like All Lives Matter, we'll attack any Black Womanist concerns and say this has nothing to do with sex/gender but Black Issues. If that makes sense, I'm basically saying that Black women are Black women and Black People are apart of the Human race, but we have our own issues that need to be addressed and Black women have separate issues that need to be addressed for Black women, because we as men never experienced being a woman, so we would have to conclude that they have issues that is specifically for them to be addressed. Even as black men we have separate issues, but as a collective we have a lot of the same issues, but it's these specific issues that need to be dealt with. A nerd and a ? have similar issues, but they have very specific issues that need to be addressed.
Apart of the reason why many straight black men are offended by the article is because it comes off as an attack. It spews a lot of the same racist talking points that white supremacists use against black men, it's one big generalization of black men which isn't true. So if we won't accept it from white supremacists are we to accept it from black people that spew it? Other groups gets treated as individuals and the actions of one doesn't represent all, but for example, with black people if a black man beats on a black woman his actions are representative of all black men, and that isn't fair.
Black women definitely have specific needs/concerns that are unique to them. They deal with sexism and racism. And black men will never understand that. I can agree that we as black men should be more empathetic to black womens needs and concerns, there is definitely room for improvement in terms of our treatment of black women, but a lot of these issues won't go away unfortunately, the best we can do is talk to our boys and teach them respect. And for those who harm black women, most times than not a black man will get punished.
And lastly. If black men are the white people of black society then point to me the system where institutionally black men, mass incarcerate black women, deny black women jobs, loans, show me the Jim Crow equivalent where we segregate black women, show me where we enslave black women? The idea is based mostly on name calling, and that's not comparative to systemic white supremacy and racism.
That's why I use attitude of dismissiveness of white people. We are too effected by the psychology of the larger population, that is apart of being an American sadly. The reason they said straight black men are the white people of black people is primarily is that SBM are taken serious more than any other group. Their perceived to be leaders and we forget all on-going contributions that black women have done as well. But this is also not because of black men, but the dominant society, but we should put them on the forefront if they are putting in the heavy workload. So that's a responsibility on our end. I don't see it as an attack, but merely a wake up call. Sometimes stretching choice of words are way to wake up people. Of course we are not the equivalent of white people or even close to it, but there is some strange resemblances that need to be nipped in the bud so we can elevate higher as a people.
But it is an attack you can't claim to want to give straight black men a wake up call and then use white supremacists talking points that won't go over well. That's like if a black woman wrote an article chastising black women by using white supremacist talking points, black women are not going to like it and they will feel attacked and offended.
The bold is a massive reach. Black men might be the most hated group of men among every group, even a subset of our own people hate black men.
I see it as more of frustration, but I can definitely feel why you would feel that way. But it does open up a discussion though and within that discussion that black men and women have to come to a compromise of some sorts. I hold no hatred for black men, but a lot of women are tired of black men, but this is also due to miscommunication but the biggest piece to any of this is reevaluation of what black culture truly is and how do we see the world. Right now it's not the same.
You are over thinking this ? bruh. Black men and black women do have to learn to talk to and listen to each other and throw off the brainwashing that's been put on us to divide us. But there is no rationalization that can excuse the poor form of that article.Ajackson17 wrote: »
Do I think as much as in the past, but I wouldn't even say that is far fetched of an idea that SBM do hold or seem more credible than black women who are at the same level or above or even slightly lower. But this article seems that it is getting it's voices from black women.
Yeah, it is pretty far fetched. I see no evidence that if you took an average black man and an average black woman that people would automatically listen to the black man first. With the way black men are painted in this country, I'd probably more readily believe people would listen to the black woman first. More than likely both would be dismissed though.
Just based off my observations
Sm of every race are viewed as more credible in certain circles. In academia or in politics, for instance.
Women in general are often dismissed as being overly dramatic/emotional and very few are touted as grand thinkers
And consider historically in White liberal circles today, sbm were the face of anti-blk racism. So when they want to get "woke" they turn to blk men
Subsequently sbm political thinkers and strategists were more respected and given larger platforms than their female counterparts
Just look at the rise of blk intellectuals today like Taneshi Coates, Cornel West and Michael Eric Dyson who have made I'm sure 6 figures talking /writing about race; are constantly on the liberal media talk show circuit opposed to blk woman intellectuals like Michelle Alexander, Nell Painter and Isabel Wilkerson
It's not just that not that men's words carry more weight, but the worlds see blk women doing better academically and going off to college so they assume we are doing ok. We are treated like satellites of our male counterparts
-
Shuffington wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »
The only necessary and correct response to a Black woman’s lamentations is to listen. It is not to dismiss or find offense. It is not to center your own feelings and plight. It is not to rebut, refute, or refuse to accept. It is to hear her, make amends, and help her move through the pain. Whether you agree or not, recognize these concerns or not, experience these same grievances or not, are a woman yourself or not, this is the modus operandi. I have learned from this exchange that Black women are all we got, save a selection of Black men we can depend on as allies. (I’m so thankful my partner is my ally and is not above introspection and criticism; that he recognizes and maximizes his minimal privilege for my benefit and that of other Black women.) But, just like with White people, Black women must wear a guard of protection when encountering Black men until they prove themselves to be a safe place.
Theres a famous quote by Stephen R. Covey
Understanding the nature of a forum is to reply, I think it took like 10 pages( out of those people who engaged) for someone to ask a question or step outside of themselves and be inquisitive.We typically seek first to be understood. Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply. They're either speaking or preparing to speak. They're filtering everything through their own paradigms, reading their autobiography into other people's lives.
I find that the bolded is the best answer for the grievances that are being expressed.
While I was a little perked up by the subject title, I wasn't really offended. As I reflected on my personal interactions with women that I've encountered in my walk of life.... I realize they've all been relatively pleasant no matter how close or far the relationship. I can confidently say that most of the women whom i engaged with/ girlfriends / coworkers (excluding moms because she's a given) had my back, and probably still will have my back.
With the amount of cringe worthy comments in this thread, I think deep down, they're guys in here that feel like "? .. if I don't control these "b*tches," they will destroy me". Like to the point where they take all grievances as personal attacks.... like "some white people" do.
while they're some wild women out their that aint ? , the key to discernment is listening with an intent to understand.
but I get it, engaging discourse with an intent to understand our counterpart is something not everyone is here for.
Dope post
Have to learn to listen more myself -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
Just based off my observations
Sm of every race are viewed as more credible in certain circles. In academia or in politics, for instance.
Women in general are often dismissed as being overly dramatic/emotional and very few are touted as grand thinkers
And consider historically in White liberal circles today, sbm were the face of anti-blk racism. So when they want to get "woke" they turn to blk men
Subsequently sbm political thinkers and strategists were more respected and given larger platforms than their female counterparts
Just look at the rise of blk intellectuals today like Taneshi Coates, Cornel West and Michael Eric Dyson who have made I'm sure 6 figures talking /writing about race; are constantly on the liberal media talk show circuit opposed to blk woman intellectuals like Michelle Alexander, Nell Painter and Isabel Wilkerson
It's not just that not that men's words carry more weight, but the worlds see blk women doing better academically and going off to college so they assume we are doing ok. We are treated like satellites of our male counterparts
lol West and Dyson ain't young dudes. They been on the rise for a while. Michelle Alexander got a lot of shine when her book was new. In fact, her book was probably one of the most highly lauded books of its kind around that time. Isn't Nell Painter pretty old too? The point is these are still holdovers from that generation when men were automatically given more credibility. Their relative fame is built off that. But tell me, when the next generation makes their mark and the generation after that. Who is going to be at the forefront? If black women are leading in obtaining scholarly credentials, they will have no choice to be seen as the leaders in presenting the findings.
Also, you can't deny that when you watch CNN or MSNBC, when they bring on guest experts. Honestly, I see more black women on those channels than black men. And usually the women are fairly young whereas the men are older. So there is definitely a shift. Look at black women like Angela Rye. They are on the rise and catching the public push. What black men can you say that about when it comes to journalism? Honestly, what young or middle aged black men are even getting a public push? There are some that are respected within the community, but not many that are treated as major players from a general standpoint. -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »5th Letter wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »I think it's the attitudes that black males have, it's not the actual institutions and power structure that Europeans have. But it's the downloading of their behavior.
Expound
Well, I kinda expounded in my previous post, but the fact is that if a black woman or women have an valid concern within our people, it would be overlooked as Europeans would overlook a very valid concern such as police brutality. Like All Lives Matter, we'll attack any Black Womanist concerns and say this has nothing to do with sex/gender but Black Issues. If that makes sense, I'm basically saying that Black women are Black women and Black People are apart of the Human race, but we have our own issues that need to be addressed and Black women have separate issues that need to be addressed for Black women, because we as men never experienced being a woman, so we would have to conclude that they have issues that is specifically for them to be addressed. Even as black men we have separate issues, but as a collective we have a lot of the same issues, but it's these specific issues that need to be dealt with. A nerd and a ? have similar issues, but they have very specific issues that need to be addressed.
Apart of the reason why many straight black men are offended by the article is because it comes off as an attack. It spews a lot of the same racist talking points that white supremacists use against black men, it's one big generalization of black men which isn't true. So if we won't accept it from white supremacists are we to accept it from black people that spew it? Other groups gets treated as individuals and the actions of one doesn't represent all, but for example, with black people if a black man beats on a black woman his actions are representative of all black men, and that isn't fair.
Black women definitely have specific needs/concerns that are unique to them. They deal with sexism and racism. And black men will never understand that. I can agree that we as black men should be more empathetic to black womens needs and concerns, there is definitely room for improvement in terms of our treatment of black women, but a lot of these issues won't go away unfortunately, the best we can do is talk to our boys and teach them respect. And for those who harm black women, most times than not a black man will get punished.
And lastly. If black men are the white people of black society then point to me the system where institutionally black men, mass incarcerate black women, deny black women jobs, loans, show me the Jim Crow equivalent where we segregate black women, show me where we enslave black women? The idea is based mostly on name calling, and that's not comparative to systemic white supremacy and racism.
That's why I use attitude of dismissiveness of white people. We are too effected by the psychology of the larger population, that is apart of being an American sadly. The reason they said straight black men are the white people of black people is primarily is that SBM are taken serious more than any other group. Their perceived to be leaders and we forget all on-going contributions that black women have done as well. But this is also not because of black men, but the dominant society, but we should put them on the forefront if they are putting in the heavy workload. So that's a responsibility on our end. I don't see it as an attack, but merely a wake up call. Sometimes stretching choice of words are way to wake up people. Of course we are not the equivalent of white people or even close to it, but there is some strange resemblances that need to be nipped in the bud so we can elevate higher as a people.
But it is an attack you can't claim to want to give straight black men a wake up call and then use white supremacists talking points that won't go over well. That's like if a black woman wrote an article chastising black women by using white supremacist talking points, black women are not going to like it and they will feel attacked and offended.
The bold is a massive reach. Black men might be the most hated group of men among every group, even a subset of our own people hate black men.
I see it as more of frustration, but I can definitely feel why you would feel that way. But it does open up a discussion though and within that discussion that black men and women have to come to a compromise of some sorts. I hold no hatred for black men, but a lot of women are tired of black men, but this is also due to miscommunication but the biggest piece to any of this is reevaluation of what black culture truly is and how do we see the world. Right now it's not the same.
You are over thinking this ? bruh. Black men and black women do have to learn to talk to and listen to each other and throw off the brainwashing that's been put on us to divide us. But there is no rationalization that can excuse the poor form of that article.Ajackson17 wrote: »
Do I think as much as in the past, but I wouldn't even say that is far fetched of an idea that SBM do hold or seem more credible than black women who are at the same level or above or even slightly lower. But this article seems that it is getting it's voices from black women.
Yeah, it is pretty far fetched. I see no evidence that if you took an average black man and an average black woman that people would automatically listen to the black man first. With the way black men are painted in this country, I'd probably more readily believe people would listen to the black woman first. More than likely both would be dismissed though.
Just based off my observations
Sm of every race are viewed as more credible in certain circles. In academia or in politics, for instance.
Women in general are often dismissed as being overly dramatic/emotional and very few are touted as grand thinkers
And consider historically in White liberal circles today, sbm were the face of anti-blk racism. So when they want to get "woke" they turn to blk men
Subsequently sbm political thinkers and strategists were more respected and given larger platforms than their female counterparts
Just look at the rise of blk intellectuals today like Taneshi Coates, Cornel West and Michael Eric Dyson who have made I'm sure 6 figures talking /writing about race; are constantly on the liberal media talk show circuit opposed to blk woman intellectuals like Michelle Alexander, Nell Painter and Isabel Wilkerson
It's not just that not that men's words carry more weight, but the worlds see blk women doing better academically and going off to college so they assume we are doing ok. We are treated like satellites of our male counterparts
There's nothing stopping any woman from having an intrepid thought or expressing her unique philosophy on the state of black people in America/solutions.
We have YouTube, Facebook, tumblr, twitter. All these platforms to gain attention. So if they aren't getting any, that's on them. Either there ideas suck or they don't have any.
It's bogus to try to play the socialist/fake parity game. Ideas and people are given weight based on the merit and logic of their ideas.
Btw females are overly dramatic and emotional. They just are dont know why maybe it's all the estrogen. Then you have bigger language centers in the brain which means you incessantly verbalize your emotions, annoying everyone within a thirty foot radius -
Ajackson17 wrote: »
Yo, one of the callers said some real ? . He said the relationship between black men and black women has turned into a war that has problems coming from both sides and that the only difference is that black women have white supremacy on their side and black men don't. -
Shuffington wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »
The only necessary and correct response to a Black woman’s lamentations is to listen. It is not to dismiss or find offense. It is not to center your own feelings and plight. It is not to rebut, refute, or refuse to accept. It is to hear her, make amends, and help her move through the pain. Whether you agree or not, recognize these concerns or not, experience these same grievances or not, are a woman yourself or not, this is the modus operandi. I have learned from this exchange that Black women are all we got, save a selection of Black men we can depend on as allies. (I’m so thankful my partner is my ally and is not above introspection and criticism; that he recognizes and maximizes his minimal privilege for my benefit and that of other Black women.) But, just like with White people, Black women must wear a guard of protection when encountering Black men until they prove themselves to be a safe place.
Theres a famous quote by Stephen R. Covey
Understanding the nature of a forum is to reply, I think it took like 10 pages( out of those people who engaged) for someone to ask a question or step outside of themselves and be inquisitive.We typically seek first to be understood. Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply. They're either speaking or preparing to speak. They're filtering everything through their own paradigms, reading their autobiography into other people's lives.
I find that the bolded is the best answer for the grievances that are being expressed.
While I was a little perked up by the subject title, I wasn't really offended. As I reflected on my personal interactions with women that I've encountered in my walk of life.... I realize they've all been relatively pleasant no matter how close or far the relationship. I can confidently say that most of the women whom i engaged with/ girlfriends / coworkers (excluding moms because she's a given) had my back, and probably still will have my back.
With the amount of cringe worthy comments in this thread, I think deep down, they're guys in here that feel like "? .. if I don't control these "b*tches," they will destroy me". Like to the point where they take all grievances as personal attacks.... like "some white people" do.
while they're some wild women out their that aint ? , the key to discernment is listening with an intent to understand.
but I get it, engaging discourse with an intent to understand our counterpart is something not everyone is here for.
problem here is each side is blaming the other for not listening and thats how we are here.
but ...there is another problem...
People dont listen to themselves or what they say to another person.
or they choose not to correct themselves when they are wrong with what thy say.
i know i had many fights with women i dated simply over the fact i either had to take on baggage from another ? or live up to the expectation of their ideal ? .
what is a person to do in that situation? cuz they both revolve around you aint ? .
and some people dont like inquisitive people...they think they are up to something or shut down.
then we get into acknowledgement..
how many people appreciate the small things. how many acknowledge the small things? how many people think they shouldnt have to because thats the way it should be? -
2stepz_ahead wrote: »Shuffington wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »
The only necessary and correct response to a Black woman’s lamentations is to listen. It is not to dismiss or find offense. It is not to center your own feelings and plight. It is not to rebut, refute, or refuse to accept. It is to hear her, make amends, and help her move through the pain. Whether you agree or not, recognize these concerns or not, experience these same grievances or not, are a woman yourself or not, this is the modus operandi. I have learned from this exchange that Black women are all we got, save a selection of Black men we can depend on as allies. (I’m so thankful my partner is my ally and is not above introspection and criticism; that he recognizes and maximizes his minimal privilege for my benefit and that of other Black women.) But, just like with White people, Black women must wear a guard of protection when encountering Black men until they prove themselves to be a safe place.
Theres a famous quote by Stephen R. Covey
Understanding the nature of a forum is to reply, I think it took like 10 pages( out of those people who engaged) for someone to ask a question or step outside of themselves and be inquisitive.We typically seek first to be understood. Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply. They're either speaking or preparing to speak. They're filtering everything through their own paradigms, reading their autobiography into other people's lives.
I find that the bolded is the best answer for the grievances that are being expressed.
While I was a little perked up by the subject title, I wasn't really offended. As I reflected on my personal interactions with women that I've encountered in my walk of life.... I realize they've all been relatively pleasant no matter how close or far the relationship. I can confidently say that most of the women whom i engaged with/ girlfriends / coworkers (excluding moms because she's a given) had my back, and probably still will have my back.
With the amount of cringe worthy comments in this thread, I think deep down, they're guys in here that feel like "? .. if I don't control these "b*tches," they will destroy me". Like to the point where they take all grievances as personal attacks.... like "some white people" do.
while they're some wild women out their that aint ? , the key to discernment is listening with an intent to understand.
but I get it, engaging discourse with an intent to understand our counterpart is something not everyone is here for.
problem here is each side is blaming the other for not listening and thats how we are here.
but ...there is another problem...
People dont listen to themselves or what they say to another person.
or they choose not to correct themselves when they are wrong with what thy say.
i know i had many fights with women i dated simply over the fact i either had to take on baggage from another ? or live up to the expectation of their ideal ? .
what is a person to do in that situation? cuz they both revolve around you aint ? .
and some people dont like inquisitive people...they think they are up to something or shut down.
then we get into acknowledgement..
how many people appreciate the small things. how many acknowledge the small things? how many people think they shouldnt have to because thats the way it should be?
At the end of the day, we all have our own personal hang-ups.
Theres a time tho, when you have to recognize that some people are just toxic human beings.
When it comes to issues where women do not feel empowered, safe, and or validated, that might be a good time
to listen. My girl talks about how when she's at work, the older black men that she works with talk over her. They assume that she's their daughter or little sister. She can assume a more assertive stance but she will then be classified as the "Mean B*tch". They constantly ask her when is she going to get married. They assume that she should be in a traditional marriage with kids at her age. In subtle ways they insinuate that she's invalid because she hasn't reach the antiquated specific expectations on where they feel, a woman like her should be in her life. Of course women in general make snide comments like this to each other as well, but I think when it comes from a male it can come off as "controlling" and possessive.
It can also be tiresome to constantly ignore comments like those on a weekly basis.
Issues like these have a way of creeping into my life. Clearly, I can't solve them for her, I can only listen and provide the best direction that I think, makes sense for her and her future. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »
Yo, one of the callers said some real ? . He said the relationship between black men and black women has turned into a war that has problems coming from both sides and that the only difference is that black women have white supremacy on their side and black men don't.
*sigh*
when ppl say things like this is suggests blk man aren't capable of propagating, perpetuating and profiting from white supremacy same as blk women ...which is definitely not the case
and it suggests blk women don't suffer at the hands of white supremacy.... or don't stand to lose anything when we do the work of our oppressors
it's ridiculous
blk men like sheriff david clarke and ben carson have done and said things in service of the trump white house that will negatively impact the lives of both blk women and blk men
ben carson's stint at the HUD will disproportionately impact the living situation of blk mothers and their children. what is to happen to them if he continues to cut funding and gut the department
the blk men who chase after patriarchy do us all no favors
blk men, some of a higher profile like tommy sotomayor, who spew anti-blk woman rhetoric that only serves to elevate non blk women do us all no favors
-
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
Just based off my observations
Sm of every race are viewed as more credible in certain circles. In academia or in politics, for instance.
Women in general are often dismissed as being overly dramatic/emotional and very few are touted as grand thinkers
And consider historically in White liberal circles today, sbm were the face of anti-blk racism. So when they want to get "woke" they turn to blk men
Subsequently sbm political thinkers and strategists were more respected and given larger platforms than their female counterparts
Just look at the rise of blk intellectuals today like Taneshi Coates, Cornel West and Michael Eric Dyson who have made I'm sure 6 figures talking /writing about race; are constantly on the liberal media talk show circuit opposed to blk woman intellectuals like Michelle Alexander, Nell Painter and Isabel Wilkerson
It's not just that not that men's words carry more weight, but the worlds see blk women doing better academically and going off to college so they assume we are doing ok. We are treated like satellites of our male counterparts
lol West and Dyson ain't young dudes. They been on the rise for a while. Michelle Alexander got a lot of shine when her book was new. In fact, her book was probably one of the most highly lauded books of its kind around that time. Isn't Nell Painter pretty old too? The point is these are still holdovers from that generation when men were automatically given more credibility. Their relative fame is built off that. But tell me, when the next generation makes their mark and the generation after that. Who is going to be at the forefront? If black women are leading in obtaining scholarly credentials, they will have no choice to be seen as the leaders in presenting the findings.
Also, you can't deny that when you watch CNN or MSNBC, when they bring on guest experts. Honestly, I see more black women on those channels than black men. And usually the women are fairly young whereas the men are older. So there is definitely a shift. Look at black women like Angela Rye. They are on the rise and catching the public push. What black men can you say that about when it comes to journalism? Honestly, what young or middle aged black men are even getting a public push? There are some that are respected within the community, but not many that are treated as major players from a general standpoint.
west and dyson ain't that old...at least dyson
i see a lot of blk women on msnbc, cnn along with younger blk male intellectuals like jelani cobbs, van jones and touré
i don't see many women being exalted and invited to partake in real policy conversations like a taneishi coates
things are slowly changing though
and ty for at least acknowledging that there was once a time not to long ago when men were given more credibility from jump -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »
Yo, one of the callers said some real ? . He said the relationship between black men and black women has turned into a war that has problems coming from both sides and that the only difference is that black women have white supremacy on their side and black men don't.
*sigh*
when ppl say things like this is suggests blk man aren't capable of propagating, perpetuating and profiting from white supremacy same as blk women ...which is definitely not the case
and it suggests blk women don't suffer at the hands of white supremacy.... or don't stand to lose anything when we do the work of our oppressors
it's ridiculous
blk men like sheriff david clarke and ben carson have done and said things in service of the trump white house that will negatively impact the lives of both blk women and blk men
ben carson's stint at the HUD will disproportionately impact the living situation of blk mothers and their children. what is to happen to them if he continues to cut funding and gut the department
the blk men who chase after patriarchy do us all no favors
blk men, some of a higher profile like tommy sotomayor, who spew anti-blk woman rhetoric that only serves to elevate non blk women do us all no favors
But that's not at all what the caller said. He didn't say black women promote white supremacy and black men don't. He said black women have white supremacy on their side (in the fight between black men and women) and black men don't. He was summarizing the professor's statements about how many feminist criticisms of black men are just updated versions of the stereotypes that white supremacists used.
He gave several examples of things, but I'll just point out one. During the video, a person in their live chat, likely a feminist, claimed that black men were killing black women en masse. The professor asked what the woman meant by that and then proceeded to point out that only around 100-300 black women are killed yearly in domestic disputes. He also referenced statistics that show that only around 30 fewer black men are killed every year in domestic disputes than black women. I know you feminists don't do well with numbers, but surely you'd agree 300 a year out of the millions of black women living in this country doesn't equate to en masse. His point was that such feminist rhetoric is not really based in reality at all. It actually just comes from racist stereotypes about black men that used to be promoted widely by whites. That's what the caller meant by black women (mostly feminists) being backed by white supremacy. Some of you are quite literally taking up where many of the debunked white supremacists left off. Ironically, if what he's saying is true that would mean that black feminists are really the white people of black people.
Also, I'd like to point out that even on this site where there seems to be some legitimate hate by some for black women, dudes like Tommy Sotomayor are looked at as clowns. Not to mention that the last we saw of him, he went to some black seminar and didn't get a pat on the back for telling the truth about black ? . No he got punched in the face for disrespecting "black queens." When is the last time one of you "moderate" feminists publicly checked an extremist for male bashing? More often than not, even when you supposedly don't agree with the extremists, you still seem to bend over backwards to try and rationalize their statements.
https://youtu.be/8xc4K5UDDZs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wBKEibtMbw&t=3s
