Why Did Reasonable Doubt Flop When It Came Out?
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Nobody outside of NY/East coast gave a ? about him.... Once Pace dissed him he was dismissed... Alot of folk didnt like his flow back then
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Nobody outside of NY/East coast gave a ? about him.... Once Pace dissed him he was dismissed... Alot of folk didnt like his flow back then
I agree he didn't have a huge presence outside the East but because of Foxy he was getting burn outside the east. "Ain't No ? " was on the "Nutty Professor" soundtrack which went Multi-Platinum and the song did very well on Radio. "Ill Be" was a Top 10 Pop hit for Foxy and Jay so in 96:
Reasonable Doubt - Gold
Dead Presidents (Didn't even chart) - Gold
Ill Be (Top 10 Hit) - Gold
Ain't No ? (Radio Hit)
Mind you all while Jay was on a independent label. Sounds like a successful year to me to kick off your debut album. Mind you he also did a lot of writing on "Ill Na Na" Foxy's Debut. Watching the "I'll Be" video is so funny, Jay was getting his Bad Boy on back then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm_T1I29bhs -
"That's right we drop hits...."
Roc a Fella was a independent label right -
He did not Get a big promotion. He was not on a big label like those other rappers. So going gold with your first lp in these conditions is far from a flop.
Why do people not ask these questions about illmatic...oh wait, it is jay so we should hate -
Itsallright wrote: »He did not Get a big promotion. He was not on a big label like those other rappers. So going gold with your first lp in these conditions is far from a flop.
Why do people not ask these questions about illmatic...oh wait, it is jay so we should hate
"ILLmatic" flopped commercially when it dropped but not critically. Also it was a raw, pure Hip Hop album so fans didn't really care about sales but the quality was all that mattered. It wasn't until "Ready To Die" dropped that "ILLmatic" sales went under a microscope, thus NaS's transition from Nasty to Escobar happen. He ended up moving Biggie units while Biggie was alive but he lost his core hip hop fanbase with "It Was Written" but gained a whole new audience to his music. Jay was commercial with "ain't no ? " out the gate and was able to go Gold from jump in about 3 months. Again took almost 2 years for "ILLmatic" to go Gold.
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I think the lack of promotion was a big factor in it not receiving the attention when it originally came out. Plus no one pitied of NY maybe, were really checking for him like that at the time. I didn't even know that album came out til 6 months later. It was a lot going on in hip hop around that time and he was so laid back then it's like he got lost in
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the shuffle. He quietly went gold though. Most people didn't start checking for his catalogue of music until Vol. 2 came out
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Was nto feeling the album then and I never jumped on the groupie bandwagon after he blew up so I am not feeling it now no revisionist just facts album is far from a true classic..
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that album had a couple singles with heavy rotation on rap city, YOmtv and video music box. if u werent checking for him, you were prolly like i was with bone thugs and harmony......not interested.
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Jay-z never had that machine behind him, i think people still forget that Priority Records distributed Reasonable Doubt. It wasn't until Jay went to Def Jam that he finally had a machine behind him. They basically pushed that Reasonable Doubt album out of their own pockets and street hustle.
I think people need to understand that Biggie had it way easier than Nas or Jay ever had it, Puffy was the hottest young executive at that time coming off his work with Mary J and Jodeci. Puffy had connects at The Source, Hot 97,etc and most of all he had an ear for music which clearly help Biggie cross over to mainstream. -
rapmastermind wrote: »give up homie folks would rather find something to hate on Jay about then worry about reality. Not to mention Pac's album sales weren't that great til all the controversy with the arrests.
Also the fact is most rappers don't blow out the gate. LL Did, Biggie did as far as NYC artist, Rakim did but most did not. Pac didn't really blow until "I get around" on his 2nd LP. Fugees 1st LP flopped. Not everyone was an instant success. Jay was underground and unknown for the 1st 7 years of his career. "RD" was a success cause during a time when Biggie and NaS as well as LL were crushing buildings with sales and success. Jay came out and had a little impact and was able to have a Gold LP and Single. It took 2 years for "ILLmatic" to go Gold, it took a year and a half for "36 Chambers" to go Platinum:
NAS ILLMATIC APRIL 19, 1994 JANUARY 17, 1996 COLUMBIA STANDARD GOLD ALBUM SOLO
WU-TANG CLAN ENTER THE WU-TANG (36 CHAMBERS) NOVEMBER 09, 1993 MAY 15, 1995 RCA STANDARD PLATINUM ALBUM GROUP
Yo Mastermind ur spittin alotta facts here but 1 thing most ppl don't realize is back in those days rap wasn't quite as commercialized. Case in point 1ce U got dat platinum plaque it basically depended on da impact of ur album & whether or not U had dat quote unquote "single" to keep ur momentum going to make an attempt at 2x plat which like now was da biggest deal N da world. Until Bad Boy & Death Row began selling records like ? there were only a select few to do astronomical #'s such as Fugees/The Score or cross-over artists like Hammer or Vanilla Ice. Other than dat like someone prev mentioned Gold was definitely da standard in rap music -
Jay-z never had that machine behind him, i think people still forget that Priority Records distributed Reasonable Doubt. It wasn't until Jay went to Def Jam that he finally had a machine behind him. They basically pushed that Reasonable Doubt album out of their own pockets and street hustle.
I think people need to understand that Biggie had it way easier than Nas or Jay ever had it, Puffy was the hottest young executive at that time coming off his work with Mary J and Jodeci. Puffy had connects at The Source, Hot 97,etc and most of all he had an ear for music which clearly help Biggie cross over to mainstream.
that and the advice pac gave him
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MC The Rapper wrote: »A of lot people felt like Jay-Z was Like B.I.G's little man, Jaz-O little man , Big Daddy Kane little man . He didn't come into his own . He was like the sidekick. Kinda like Lil Wayne in Hot Boys.
album was highly forgettable, nobody in my vicinity had it ....
if it wasn't for jigga runnin up under biggie like he was biggie's little cousin he would of never had a foundation to blow up ....
him using his fugazi "bestfriend" status with big is what honestly moved him up the ranks, ? acted as if he big were longtime boys and ? ran with it for years ....
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MC The Rapper wrote: »A of lot people felt like Jay-Z was Like B.I.G's little man, Jaz-O little man , Big Daddy Kane little man . He didn't come into his own . He was like the sidekick. Kinda like Lil Wayne in Hot Boys.
album was highly forgettable, nobody in my vicinity had it ....
if it wasn't for jigga runnin up under biggie like he was biggie's little cousin he would of never had a foundation to blow up ....
him using his fugazi "bestfriend" status with big is what honestly moved him up the ranks, ? acted as if he big were longtime boys and ? ran with it for years ....
I mean B.I.G really ? with dude tho because the whole Brooklyn connection
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Why is it so hard for ? to realized that Reasonable Doubt is GARBAGE. The album is WACK. It maybe would pass for a decent today but not in 1996. Thats why the album didnt sell. nothing deep or complicated. Jay Z had the promotion. Cant Knock the Hustle, Dead Presidents, Aint no ? got heavy video play on Rap City and Yo MTV Raps. He was on Priority/EMI which was still in they prime. He got the cameos, he got the forced co signs, he got the interviews. The album is just ? wack. The mafioso era was the snap/ringtone era of NY hip hop. Grown ass men walking around wishing that they were whitemen taking italian names selling vessel loads full of dope was pure coonery and only a regional thing. Real ? saw through Jay Z and decided not to waste their hard earned clinton dollars supporting another NY ? gassed off watching Casino/Goodfellas.
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funny because i thought it was jays best album.
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rapmastermind wrote: »I was 16 in the summer of 96, I brought that LP in June the day it dropped. "Reasonable Doubt" did not flop in 96. It went Gold in like 3 months and had a Gold single with "Dead Presidents". Jay wasn't known like that even with features from Biggie, Mary J and Foxy. Jay was a lower tier artist but still went Gold, far from a flop in 96. He was also on an independent label too. For NYC, only Biggie, LL, NaS, Lil Kim and Foxy were moving units past Platinum in 96. In 96, Mobb Deep "Hell on Earth" went GOLD was that a flop too?, NO.
thats what i was getting at...i guess its only a flop for jay.....rd went gold before illmatic and was released over 2 years after it
This is true but if U can or anyone else in da IC pls tell me what other album got bootlegged da way Illmatic did pre-internet era B4 napster etc etc.??? -
wow..y'all really consider reasonable doubt a flop? what kinda numbers was jay suppose to do?
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96 east coast rap was still gritty..and jay's style was too laid back for that...dont forget redman went gold in 96 also
Too many classic albums released in 96. Redman, Ghostface, Nas, Fugees, Pac, Snoop dropped albums that got massive exposure. Jay was an afterthought back then. -
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was not in the minority then and untill 2002 when it hit platinum(Inthe era of most HipHop Albums with hits going Patinum) It seems I was in the majority...IntellectualViolence wrote: »Soloman the Wise wrote: »Was nto feeling the album then and I never jumped on the groupie bandwagon after he blew up so I am not feeling it now no revisionist just facts album is far from a true classic..
honesty... u r in the minority on all that... that ? had mad gems on it... from production to lyrics...
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lol @ the Fugees album being a "classic"...
not only was "The Score" the most overrated album of '96, that ? was wack too -
lol @ the Fugees album being a "classic"...
not only was "The Score" the most overrated album of '96, that ? was wack too
no -
rapmastermind wrote: »I was 16 in the summer of 96, I brought that LP in June the day it dropped. "Reasonable Doubt" did not flop in 96. It went Gold in like 3 months and had a Gold single with "Dead Presidents". Jay wasn't known like that even with features from Biggie, Mary J and Foxy. Jay was a lower tier artist but still went Gold, far from a flop in 96. He was also on an independent label too. For NYC, only Biggie, LL, NaS, Lil Kim and Foxy were moving units past Platinum in 96. In 96, Mobb Deep "Hell on Earth" went GOLD was that a flop too?, NO.
thats what i was getting at...i guess its only a flop for jay.....rd went gold before illmatic and was released over 2 years after it?
This is true but if U can or anyone else in da IC pls tell me what other album got bootlegged da way Illmatic did pre-internet era B4 napster etc etc.???
Oh ? you dont have to tell me nothing about prolly the most bootlegged album ever.....my peeps had the 6 song demo in like febuary and the album dropped a couple months later.....but what im getting at is say if illmatic went gold no one would seem to have a problem with that so why is rd a flop?
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