Batman vs. Captain America
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »I don't know. That's some pretty weak evidence right there. Can Cap be beaten by someone on Hawkeye or Batman's level. Yes, under the right conditions anyone can be beaten by anyone. However, I hardly think a fight where Cap spent more time trying to dissuade Clint than actually seriously fight him is a good indicator of how Batman would fare.
How not? Let's not forget that Hawkeye is much worse than Batman in every way. -
I'm pretty sure Hawkeye is better with a bow and throwing objects than Batman. And Batman doesn't have the relationship with Cap that Hawkeye does, so he's not going to have Cap focusing more on talking him down than taking him out like in that fight. He's also not going to have flashbacks to prior confrontations pop into his mind to give him insight on how to win the fight.
I'm not saying Batman could never win, but it's going to be 8/10 in Caps favor in any straight up fight between the two. -
Captain Americano way in Hell any rational person
walked out that theatre and STILL come to the conclusion Bats can take Cap in a fair one
Even if their are equally skilled
the very first scene of the movie perfectly demonstrated why Cap will eventually win
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BatmanNa, he fights like bats in the very first scene. The batman movies never ever did Bruce justice when it came to fights. Dude was just slow and boring as ? .
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GrandMasterSour wrote: »Na, he fights like bats in the very first scene. The batman movies never ever did Bruce justice when it came to fights. Dude was just slow and boring as ? .
It's not the fighting. It's what he's capable of. The dude jumps out of planes with no parachute like it's a regular thing. Water or not, if a normal human being does that, they are dead.
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Captain America is the best!!
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Batman jumps out of planes
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Yes, with his specialized suit that allows him to glide safely wherever he needs to go.
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BatmanBut realistically, ninjutsu >> military training
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By realistically, I'm guessing you mean comic realism, which even then isn't really correct since more often than not ninjas in comics are used as fodder.
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DarkRaiden wrote: »DarkRaiden wrote: »DarkRaiden wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »DarkRaiden wrote: »
Except they do. Cap has done nothing to exceed Batman's "punching through bazooka proof glass" or "kicking a guy through a missile proof door" thing. Cap has never shown to be faster than Batman in any way either. Batman and Cap have similar stats when you look at what they've done, not the flawed way you look at them and their "character concepts". Batman is very superhuman, just like Cap.
Deathstroke hitting Flash, dodging Starfire's blasts, easily beating people who are physically superior to him and giving it to high tiers has A LOT to do with how he'll handle Cap. It shows how fast he is, how good he is at what he does, the arsenal he has at his disposal. Also you're forgetting that his healing factor and durability are leagues above Caps.
Deathstroke has 5-10 ton feats, Cap stays closer to 2 like Batman does.
So, my way of looking at things which is basically to take what is stated about and established for the character is "flawed," but you're way of basing everything on a couple high level feats is right? Ok, I don't know how long you've been reading comics, but I'm sure you know that feats go up and down like roller coasters. In one comic a character can be chucking cars like ninja stars, and in another comic that same character can be struggling to lift an enemy that barely ways a ton. That's how it goes. Unless you've got Batman performing some feats and have proof that Cap couldn't do the same easier, you're not definitively proving anything.
Just look at Batman's rogue gallery. Hardly any of them have super powers. Hell, Bane is probably one of his strongest enemies. He's just a roided up human and he damn near killed Batman. Pretty much everyone Cap fights, is superhuman.
As for Deathstroke, everything you're saying in favor of him can be said for Cap. Cap has school pretty much all the Avengers at some point or the other. So again, your example of how well he does against JL members is meaningless. Hell, forget the Avengers. Cap has gone into the Cosmic arena and been revered for his prowess. When you have the respect of members of alien races that were space faring while humans were still trying to figure out fire, you're doing something right.
Cap has schooled Thor? I mean I've seen him beat Hulk (complete PIS), Iron Man was also PIS, and Spidey didn't fight back, never seen him even take Luke Cage, and he's worse than Wolverine and they've made that prety clear. Difference is Deathstroke stomps most street levels period. And his JL/Teen Titan feats are consistent and happen nearly every time.
As for Bats, punching bazooka proof doors and missile proof doors are mid-high level at best. his real high levels are PIS and don't make sense. Bane is strong AND a great fighter which is why he's a good villain. Same reason Cap has problems with Red Skull and other street levelers.
But mainly, Bats has 1 ton+ strength feats (that Cap can match, but doesn't tend to exceed) and they both have similar speed feats. They're nearly identical.
What street level characters does Cap have problems with? Red Skull is also superhuman. Batman doesn't have any feats that suggest he can lift 1 ton nor has he shown anything to suggest he's on par with Cap physically.
Red Skull (street level is street level), Wolverine, Black Panther, Deadpool, Hawkeye. That's who I got right now. Probably more.
Just admit you have no idea what you're talking about. You're not really telling me everyone in the street level category are the same are you? Red Skull, Wolverine, BP and Deadpool are all superhuman characters and are all >>>> Batman physically. Hawkeye has never in his history given Cap problems. This is just a flat out lie. Cap trained Hawkeye to become the leader and fighter that he is today.
Bruh, you literally said "what street level characters does Cap have problems with" and I named them. Hawkeye has flat out beaten Cap before. Yeah Cap trained him, but Hawkeye still won that one fight. If Cap can lose to Hawkeye, he can lose to Batman. And he has.
You named people who Cap has fought, not folks who give them problems..and besides, these same street level folks would beat the dog ? out of Batman..You're using enhanced individuals as your evidence. Batman isn't enhanced. Hawkeye beat Cap one time in over 50 years of comics and that's the evidence you're using? Have you read or seen any other appearances of the two? I'm asking because there's this thing in comics called high end showings..you should pay attention to them more. -
DarkRaiden wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »DarkRaiden wrote: »Bruh, you literally said "what street level characters does Cap have problems with" and I named them. Hawkeye has flat out beaten Cap before. Yeah Cap trained him, but Hawkeye still won that one fight. If Cap can lose to Hawkeye, he can lose to Batman. And he has.
The problem is that the list given are all people who are above Batman and would most likely whoop his ass.
And I think you need to add some context to the Cap/Hawkeye fight because saying "This character beat him so this character can automatically beat him too doesn't work." For instance, if Hawkeye used some info he knew about Cap due to them being teammates to pull of the win, that wouldn't apply to Batman.
Hawkeye used some SLIGHT knowledge at best cause Cap was using the plasma shield. But the point was that someone on Hawkeye's level was able to take it to Cap. Batman's above Hawkeye's physical level and the arrows Hakweye uses are like a tame version of Batman's utility belt.
As for the street levelers, you tried to act like Cap was above Street Level and he's not. Simple as that. Yeah Batman struggles with Bane, but so would Cap without the Shield. Bats also beats people stronger than him like Croc and Man-Bat.
So I still maintain that they're even.
BTW Hawkeye vs. Cap fight I'm referring too:
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You're selling Hawkeye short if you think his arrows are a tamed version of Batman's utility belt..also, Batman isn't above Hawkeye physically. They're roughly the same. Hawkeye has the benefit of having extensive knowledge of Cap, which wouldn't be a factor for Batman and again, this would be a high end showing for Hawkeye. No one said Cap was above street level. Its just that everyone in the street level category aren't on the same status..It's rather simple really unless you think every top tier is Superman/Thor level. Captain America wouldn't even break a sweat on Bane. He'd beat the brakes off of him with or without the shield. -
man, hold the ? up.. THIS is the Hawk/Cap fight you're talking about? ? Wow. Cap wasn't even taking Hawkeye seriously in that fight, smmh
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DarkRaiden wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »I don't know. That's some pretty weak evidence right there. Can Cap be beaten by someone on Hawkeye or Batman's level. Yes, under the right conditions anyone can be beaten by anyone. However, I hardly think a fight where Cap spent more time trying to dissuade Clint than actually seriously fight him is a good indicator of how Batman would fare.
How not? Let's not forget that Hawkeye is much worse than Batman in every way.
How so? -
no way in Hell any rational person
walked out that theatre and STILL come to the conclusion Bats can take Cap in a fair one
Even if their are equally skilled
the very first scene of the movie perfectly demonstrated why Cap will eventually win
I mean it's insane. Just look at how the two are portrayed in the movies..I thought the difference between the two was blatantly obvious, but i guess not. I don't even like to use the movies, but just for some who aren't that familiar with comics to have a reference..in Cap the first avenger film..dude held a motorcycle with 3 women sitting on it over his head effortlessly. The guy was running on pace with cars and ? , but Batman and Cap are physically similar....ok -
GrandMasterSour wrote: »Na, he fights like bats in the very first scene. The batman movies never ever did Bruce justice when it came to fights. Dude was just slow and boring as ? .
That's how Batman, well began. He wasn't an uber MA from the jump. That part of his mythos came into the mix later -
DarkRaiden wrote: »DarkRaiden wrote: »DarkRaiden wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »DarkRaiden wrote: »
Except they do. Cap has done nothing to exceed Batman's "punching through bazooka proof glass" or "kicking a guy through a missile proof door" thing. Cap has never shown to be faster than Batman in any way either. Batman and Cap have similar stats when you look at what they've done, not the flawed way you look at them and their "character concepts". Batman is very superhuman, just like Cap.
Deathstroke hitting Flash, dodging Starfire's blasts, easily beating people who are physically superior to him and giving it to high tiers has A LOT to do with how he'll handle Cap. It shows how fast he is, how good he is at what he does, the arsenal he has at his disposal. Also you're forgetting that his healing factor and durability are leagues above Caps.
Deathstroke has 5-10 ton feats, Cap stays closer to 2 like Batman does.
So, my way of looking at things which is basically to take what is stated about and established for the character is "flawed," but you're way of basing everything on a couple high level feats is right? Ok, I don't know how long you've been reading comics, but I'm sure you know that feats go up and down like roller coasters. In one comic a character can be chucking cars like ninja stars, and in another comic that same character can be struggling to lift an enemy that barely ways a ton. That's how it goes. Unless you've got Batman performing some feats and have proof that Cap couldn't do the same easier, you're not definitively proving anything.
Just look at Batman's rogue gallery. Hardly any of them have super powers. Hell, Bane is probably one of his strongest enemies. He's just a roided up human and he damn near killed Batman. Pretty much everyone Cap fights, is superhuman.
As for Deathstroke, everything you're saying in favor of him can be said for Cap. Cap has school pretty much all the Avengers at some point or the other. So again, your example of how well he does against JL members is meaningless. Hell, forget the Avengers. Cap has gone into the Cosmic arena and been revered for his prowess. When you have the respect of members of alien races that were space faring while humans were still trying to figure out fire, you're doing something right.
Cap has schooled Thor? I mean I've seen him beat Hulk (complete PIS), Iron Man was also PIS, and Spidey didn't fight back, never seen him even take Luke Cage, and he's worse than Wolverine and they've made that prety clear. Difference is Deathstroke stomps most street levels period. And his JL/Teen Titan feats are consistent and happen nearly every time.
As for Bats, punching bazooka proof doors and missile proof doors are mid-high level at best. his real high levels are PIS and don't make sense. Bane is strong AND a great fighter which is why he's a good villain. Same reason Cap has problems with Red Skull and other street levelers.
But mainly, Bats has 1 ton+ strength feats (that Cap can match, but doesn't tend to exceed) and they both have similar speed feats. They're nearly identical.
What street level characters does Cap have problems with? Red Skull is also superhuman. Batman doesn't have any feats that suggest he can lift 1 ton nor has he shown anything to suggest he's on par with Cap physically.
Red Skull (street level is street level), Wolverine, Black Panther, Deadpool, Hawkeye. That's who I got right now. Probably more.
Just admit you have no idea what you're talking about. You're not really telling me everyone in the street level category are the same are you? Red Skull, Wolverine, BP and Deadpool are all superhuman characters and are all >>>> Batman physically. Hawkeye has never in his history given Cap problems. This is just a flat out lie. Cap trained Hawkeye to become the leader and fighter that he is today.
Bruh, you literally said "what street level characters does Cap have problems with" and I named them. Hawkeye has flat out beaten Cap before. Yeah Cap trained him, but Hawkeye still won that one fight. If Cap can lose to Hawkeye, he can lose to Batman. And he has.
You named people who Cap has fought, not folks who give them problems..and besides, these same street level folks would beat the dog ? out of Batman..You're using enhanced individuals as your evidence. Batman isn't enhanced. Hawkeye beat Cap one time in over 50 years of comics and that's the evidence you're using? Have you read or seen any other appearances of the two? I'm asking because there's this thing in comics called high end showings..you should pay attention to them more.
Cap has lost to everyone I named. You acted like Cap was above street level, but street levels have beaten him before. That was the point of that list.
Hawkeye beat Cap and that's a pretty recent showing after all of his training (read: actually having hand to hand skills). Batman is basically enhanced since he's doing superhuman stuff like punching missile proof material and cracking it. Hawkeye's never done half the stuff Batman's done physically. He's far worse due to feats pretty much. And Batman's utility belt has far more useful gadgets on it than Hawkeye's quiver.
And I know about high end feats, if I was using them, Bats has dodged Superman's Lightspeed heat vision and has taken hits from Darkseid. But those are silly and I don't use them because of that.
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BatmanPrep time>>>
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Captain AmericaGrandMasterSour wrote: »Na, he fights like bats in the very first scene. The batman movies never ever did Bruce justice when it came to fights. Dude was just slow and boring as ? .
U must be smoking cactus. Batman never ever could move like that. -
lol @ people seeing TWS and still thinking Batman can do what Steve does. Dude was front snap kicking people and sending them flying 10 ft. back. Batman can't do that.
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BatmanWhat if Batman wears the Same suit from the dark knight returns 2? You know that suit went toe to toe with Supes?
forget about the winter souljah or nolans batman movies. Just look at how Bane is portayed in the mobies compared to the comics...
? ok, Cap might win the First showdown, you know he will lose the 2nd,3rd,4th showdowns.
so who really wins? 4 outta 5 times its gonna be the bat. He ll only lose the first. -
BatmanThe Lonious Monk wrote: »By realistically, I'm guessing you mean comic realism, which even then isn't really correct since more often than not ninjas in comics are used as fodder.
in the dc vs marvel comic, cap lost to the bat(cheaply lol) and admitted he came up short...(bouts in those vol were decided by populair vote though lol, wolverine beats lobo, storm beats wonder woman etc)
in the Jl avengers comic they ended up equal, Bruce realized cap would eventually beat him on stamina.
*shrugs
purely based on that comic book realism, they are on the Same level and Cap wouldnt beat the Bat as easily or is in another league then Bat as you keep claiming so passionately.
in fact based on "comic book realism" its one win for the Bat and one draw... -
Captain AmericaSmfh u dudes voting with your hearts nh.
But...but...it's Bruce
(
Bats is in peak human physical condition(sometimes) Cap is above that ? , simple as that.
I ? with Batman too but dude can and has gotten his ass beat b4, it's no shame in admitting it. -
BatmanSmfh u dudes voting with your hearts nh.
But...but...it's Bruce(
Bats is in peak human physical condition(sometimes) Cap is above that ? , simple as that.
I ? with Batman too but dude can and has gotten his ass beat b4, it's no shame in admitting it.
nah fam, youre the one pressing feelings and ? lol.
like i said, in the comics, bats done beat Cap and had a draw...
you know there is actually a comic out there where Cap and Bats team up against the red skull and Joker lol. -
BatmanAnd Bane has superhuman strenght on Venom, blast through arkham prison walls like it was nothing.
Im not saying he s the Hulk lol but he ain't some dude on steriods. The contrast between Bane from the movies and Bane from the comics/animated series is ridiculous.
Bat eventually beat Bane in round dos...
