Why DON'T You Listen To Old School Hip Hop?
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BTW, here's two more albums I recommend. Theres a Volume 1 and Volume 2. Volume 1 has a generic cover. This is the cover for Volume 2.
:format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/R-460468-1293678982.jpeg.jpg)
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[img]https://scontent-lga3-1.? .fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15672912_1233889900088827_8478750231945042371_n.png?oh=464d2328ef7c9dbef3866f7cc6ef43f4&oe=58E8A8BB[/img]
You just forgot those leather outfits and tight ass clothes these ? used to wear in the 80s?
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Stomp Johnson wrote: »@5 Grand, your mission is respectable but your methods are flawed and counterproductive bruh.
You tryna teach folks about the old school by dissin facets of newer, more evolved rap using lower common denominator stereotypes as ammo.
But to them the 90's and beyond is THEIR golden era.
How about uppin a "Who Sampled?" thread or makin one with your own twist. Alotta the 90s rappers paid homage to your golden era by sampling 70s & 80s hip hop.
Cube sampled "The Message" on "Check Yaself"
The Roots sampled Apache Bongo Band (a dope break beat) on "Thought @ Work".
https://youtu.be/WY-Z6wm6TMQ
https://youtu.be/VAxfhruk1bo
The list goes on.
What you're trying to do is get folks to embrace music they have little regard for without bridging the gap.
Maybe if you show them how some of their favorite artists embraced and ? with the architects of this ? , they'd speak of them with a little more reverence.
Or maybe ? not. ? at the end of the day its still The Reason.
He don't need to bridge the gap. Plenty of ? in here said they listen to old school rap (Run-DMC, LL, etc) but apparently they not old enough for him.
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MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
Can you read? I said that there were forefathers before Miles and Dizzy that built the foundation of jazz. Just like Nas and Tribe who i ? with had Legends you are force feeding us to like and bump in the whip. And as far as Jazz i don't listen to much. I have been educated on the genre living in a music family but i don't listen to them.
Adults who like jazz listen to Miles and Dizzy they don't listen to the ? in the 1800s and early 19000s that led to it.
First of all, I'm an adult.
Second of all, there's two points that you brought up. People who listen to Miles and Dizzy and the fact that they don't listen to the stuff from the 1800s.
Recording technology was very primitive in the early 1900s. One of the first "pop" musicians (for lack of a better word) was Scott Joplin (1868-1917). Back in those days they had player pianos. They used to play the piano and whatever they played would be printed out on sheet music. Then they would sell the sheet music and if you had a player piano you could wind it up and it would play the song exactly as Scott Joplin played it. But that technology only worked for pianos (it didn't work for drums, saxophones, violins, etc.). So if you had a player piano you could buy sheet music for a party and the music would be playing all night. As far as I know, Scott Joplin was one of the earliest, what would be considered, "pop stars" in the music industry. I'm talking late 1800s/early1900s
Maple Leaf Rag (1899) - Scott Joplin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMAtL7n_-rc
The Entertainer (1902) - Scott Joplin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPmruHc4S9Q
^^^ So that's two of Scott Joplin's most famous songs. You've probably heard them before.
So yeah, I acknowledge Scott Joplin as the founder of modern music as we know it. Not saying I drive around and bump Scott Joplin but if you don't know his two biggest songs, Maple Leaf Rag (1899) and The Entertainer (1902) then you should be ashamed of yourself.
Likewise, the same can be said for old school Hip Hop. But I'm talking pre-recording era. I'm talking about the tapes that Troy L Smith sells. The tapes from 1977/78, before they started making records. I'm talking about the tape where Kool Moe Dee dissed Busy B at Harlem World back in 1981. Thats the stuff that could be considered "primitive" because it wasn't professionally recorded by our standards.
So just like somebody who listened to Miles Davis and Dizzy Gillespie from the 50s and 60s might not listen to Scott Joplin (but he should at least know who Scott Joplin is and know Maple Leaf Rag and The Entertainer). Likewise I can understand why a Hip Hop head might not listen to the tapes because they weren't professionally recorded. (I don't even listen to the tapes as much as some people I know. I know cats from Harlem and The Bronx that thats all they listen to).
But the difference is that when they started making rap records, the music was professionally recorded and there were professional session musicians, so the music was composed like R&B. Old School rap has crescendos and decreshendos that modern Hip Hop doesn't have. It was music. Then sometime in the mid 80s (Sucker MCs was the first song) Hip Hop producers threw the rulebook out the window and started making recordings that could no longer be considered "music" in the traditional sense because it didn't follow any of the rules of traditional music.
If you listen to Sucker MCs by Run DMC, there's no melody, there's no harmony, there's no chorus, there's no bridge. Its just an MC spitting lyrics (Run killed it btw).
Anyway, all I'm saying is that you'd be doing yourself a favor to listen to some of the early tapes and then listen to the early studio recordings. They're much more complicated than you're giving them credit.
I'd like to see anybody from the IC juggle a breakbeat on two turntables while another poster freestyles. It might seem easy but when the record skips you have to stay on beat. Nowadays they have Serato and Technics 1200 turntables with Shure M-447 needles, but back in the 70s Technics 1200s didn't exist yet.
Also people put The Roots on a pedestal because they are a band but ALL early rap recordings were backed by a band.
I'm just saying. I've been a member of the IC for about 5 years now and the only time there's a thread regarding old school Hip Hop is when I make one. And the name of the website is "allhiphop.com" which is kind of misleading because most of the posts are about new rap. There's more Drake threads than Grandmaster Flash threads. I'm just saying.
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well. -
some music is timeless, some of it is not
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So much terrible music being posted in here
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MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well.
You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.
When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.
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MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well.
You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.
When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.
I have been raised in music family. Blues/Jazz/and some R&B is much harder to make than Rap weather it was the early days or now. It is hard as ? . The end product also is more likely to be timeless. Like i have said i don't listen to ? sugarhill gang or grandmaster flash (i do respect it tho). to me most of that ? did not age well. Stevie wonder is timeles, Tribes Low end and MM are timeless and so is a ? ton of classic rock i listen to. -
MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well.
You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.
When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.
Recording a break from another record is not sampling? -
MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well.
You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.
When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.
? Rappers Delight was a sample. -
AN 80'S ALBUM I BUMP ON THE REG IS CRITICAL BEATDOWN. ULTRAMAG WERE SO AHEAD OF THEIR TIME.
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MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well.
You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.
When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.
Recording a break from another record is not sampling?
Sampling requires, well, a sampler. A sampler is a digital "computer" for lack of a better word. It digitally records the music EXACTLY as it was played. Then you can manipulate the sample by speeding it up, slowing it down or filtering out the high end or filtering out the low end.
The first rap song that used a sample was If I Ruled The World by Kurtis Blow (1985). It sampled the drums from Pump It Up by Trouble Funk. Some of the earliest songs with samples were Eric B Is President by Eric B and Rakim, South Bronx by Boogie Down Productions and Make The Music With Your Mouth Biz by Biz Markie.
An interesting note is that Marley Marl was one of the first Hip Hop producers to sample. He was trying to sample the bassline from Impeach The President by The Honeydrippers and accidentally sampled the snare drum. Thats when he realized you could sample a kick and a snare from another record and create your own drumbeat. The Bridge by MC Shan was basically the kick and the snare from Impeach The President replayed.
Anyway, the early rap records from 1979-1982 weren't samples, they had a house band replay the music. Basically they were covers.Revolver Ocelot wrote: »MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well.
You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.
When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.
? Rappers Delight was a sample.
Rappers Delight wasn't a sample. They replayed the break with a band.
A little piece of trivia, The Fairlight CMI was basically the first commercially available samplers. The first commercial pop song (not rap) to use a sample with the Fairlight CMI was Owner of A Lonely Heart by the band Yes.
Owner Of A Lonely Heart - Yes (1983)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsx3nGoKIN8 -
MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well.
You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.
When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.
Recording a break from another record is not sampling?
Sampling requires, well, a sampler. A sampler is a digital "computer" for lack of a better word. It digitally records the music EXACTLY as it was played. Then you can manipulate the sample by speeding it up, slowing it down or filtering out the high end or filtering out the low end.
The first rap song that used a sample was If I Ruled The World by Kurtis Blow (1985). It sampled the drums from Pump It Up by Trouble Funk. Some of the earliest songs with samples were Eric B Is President by Eric B and Rakim, South Bronx by Boogie Down Productions and Make The Music With Your Mouth Biz by Biz Markie.
An interesting note is that Marley Marl was one of the first Hip Hop producers to sample. He was trying to sample the bassline from Impeach The President by The Honeydrippers and accidentally sampled the snare drum. Thats when he realized you could sample a kick and a snare from another record and create your own drumbeat. The Bridge by MC Shan was basically the kick and the snare from Impeach The President replayed.
Anyway, the early rap records from 1979-1982 weren't samples, they had a house band replay the music. Basically they were covers.Revolver Ocelot wrote: »MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well.
You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.
When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.
? Rappers Delight was a sample.
Rappers Delight wasn't a sample. They replayed the break with a band.
A little piece of trivia, The Fairlight CMI was basically the first commercially available samplers. The first commercial pop song (not rap) to use a sample with the Fairlight CMI was Owner of A Lonely Heart by the band Yes.
Owner Of A Lonely Heart - Yes (1983)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsx3nGoKIN8
"In music, sampling is the act of taking a portion, or sample, of one sound recording and reusing it as an instrument or a sound recording in a different song or piece."
Which is what Sugarhill Gang did. Weather a band played it live while they were recording the song or they got straight from the record, it's a sample.
A cover would have been them(Sugarhill Gang) ACTUALLY performing Good Time's.
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Revolver Ocelot wrote: »
"In music, sampling is the act of taking a portion, or sample, of one sound recording and reusing it as an instrument or a sound recording in a different song or piece."
Which is what Sugarhill Gang did. Weather a band played it live while they were recording the song or they got straight from the record, it's a sample.
A cover would have been them(Sugarhill Gang) ACTUALLY performing Good Time's.
You're wrong but I'm not going to argue with you.
? argue.
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Revolver Ocelot wrote: »
"In music, sampling is the act of taking a portion, or sample, of one sound recording and reusing it as an instrument or a sound recording in a different song or piece."
Which is what Sugarhill Gang did. Weather a band played it live while they were recording the song or they got straight from the record, it's a sample.
A cover would have been them(Sugarhill Gang) ACTUALLY performing Good Time's.
You're wrong but I'm not going to argue with you.
? argue.
? also...
You know what, nevermind -
Revolver Ocelot wrote: »
"In music, sampling is the act of taking a portion, or sample, of one sound recording and reusing it as an instrument or a sound recording in a different song or piece."
Which is what Sugarhill Gang did. Weather a band played it live while they were recording the song or they got straight from the record, it's a sample.
A cover would have been them(Sugarhill Gang) ACTUALLY performing Good Time's.
You're wrong but I'm not going to argue with you.
? argue.
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[img]https://scontent-lga3-1.? .fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15672912_1233889900088827_8478750231945042371_n.png?oh=464d2328ef7c9dbef3866f7cc6ef43f4&oe=58E8A8BB[/img]
You just forgot those leather outfits and tight ass clothes these ? used to wear in the 80s?
? got on a bud light suit lol -
MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well.
You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.
When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.
Recording a break from another record is not sampling?
Sampling requires, well, a sampler. A sampler is a digital "computer" for lack of a better word. It digitally records the music EXACTLY as it was played. Then you can manipulate the sample by speeding it up, slowing it down or filtering out the high end or filtering out the low end.
The first rap song that used a sample was If I Ruled The World by Kurtis Blow (1985). It sampled the drums from Pump It Up by Trouble Funk. Some of the earliest songs with samples were Eric B Is President by Eric B and Rakim, South Bronx by Boogie Down Productions and Make The Music With Your Mouth Biz by Biz Markie.
An interesting note is that Marley Marl was one of the first Hip Hop producers to sample. He was trying to sample the bassline from Impeach The President by The Honeydrippers and accidentally sampled the snare drum. Thats when he realized you could sample a kick and a snare from another record and create your own drumbeat. The Bridge by MC Shan was basically the kick and the snare from Impeach The President replayed.
Anyway, the early rap records from 1979-1982 weren't samples, they had a house band replay the music. Basically they were covers.Revolver Ocelot wrote: »MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well.
You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.
When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.
? Rappers Delight was a sample.
Rappers Delight wasn't a sample. They replayed the break with a band.
A little piece of trivia, The Fairlight CMI was basically the first commercially available samplers. The first commercial pop song (not rap) to use a sample with the Fairlight CMI was Owner of A Lonely Heart by the band Yes.
Owner Of A Lonely Heart - Yes (1983)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsx3nGoKIN8
Damn. All this typing and you don't know what you're talking about. -
Because it's so boring and old skool rappers can't do a hook to save their life. Their production is also dull and very bland. And the ones that do have substance don't execute it in a way that is engaging at all. They execute the message in a really boring way. It also sounds very out dated
Lacks soul -
I listen to "Jam On It" by Newcleus at least 4-5 times a week.
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MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well.
You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.
When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.
Recording a break from another record is not sampling?
old hip hop wasn't made by recording the breaks, it was done by juggling breaks between two turntables. -
I listen to "Jam On It" by Newcleus at least 4-5 times a week.
Jam On Revenge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyBzYMZK17o -
Mockingbird wrote: »Because it's so boring and old skool rappers can't do a hook to save their life. Their production is also dull and very bland. And the ones that do have substance don't execute it in a way that is engaging at all. They execute the message in a really boring way. It also sounds very out dated
Lacks soul
It's a testament to the music. They didn't need a hook, ? was good without it.
It's interesting to note that "hooks", or properly a "chorus", that you hear today didn't really come into use until the very late 90's/early 2000's and even then very few cats used them. Back in the day if it wasn't the MC spittin the name of the song, it was a sample playing, not this extra verse style of chorus you hear now.
Sample for the chorus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saa0mMwe91o
name of the song for the chorus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y1Emb7Jyks
Take it back further into the "golden age" and the chorus was typically the spot for the DJ to flex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2_y5ECaQUc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4HJ-xvmSyo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMHa7J9TREU
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Revolver Ocelot wrote: »MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well.
You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.
When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.
Recording a break from another record is not sampling?
Sampling requires, well, a sampler. A sampler is a digital "computer" for lack of a better word. It digitally records the music EXACTLY as it was played. Then you can manipulate the sample by speeding it up, slowing it down or filtering out the high end or filtering out the low end.
The first rap song that used a sample was If I Ruled The World by Kurtis Blow (1985). It sampled the drums from Pump It Up by Trouble Funk. Some of the earliest songs with samples were Eric B Is President by Eric B and Rakim, South Bronx by Boogie Down Productions and Make The Music With Your Mouth Biz by Biz Markie.
An interesting note is that Marley Marl was one of the first Hip Hop producers to sample. He was trying to sample the bassline from Impeach The President by The Honeydrippers and accidentally sampled the snare drum. Thats when he realized you could sample a kick and a snare from another record and create your own drumbeat. The Bridge by MC Shan was basically the kick and the snare from Impeach The President replayed.
Anyway, the early rap records from 1979-1982 weren't samples, they had a house band replay the music. Basically they were covers.Revolver Ocelot wrote: »MeekMonizzLLLLLLe14 wrote: »
I have heard both of those Joplin songs and learned about him in a history of music class (more macro level not micro level). I think there are 2 things that you are missing from what i am saying.
1. I respect the legends. Even though i don't listen to much of what you consider old school rap i respect what they did to pave the way.
2. Hip hop is far difference from other music that includes live instruments/lyrics. Jazz, blues, rock and r&b have more depth talent and innovation than early rap music will every have which is based on samples and the beginnings of 20th century rap.
I can listen to early 1900s jazz and be amazing and the live improvision style and tone. Same with the blues and even going back to the the Joplin ragtime ? . So much more musical depth due to the combinations of both hands of the piano or layers of instrumentation.
But early rap while genus and the groundwork for the genre is composed of samples and cuts of live jazz or blues along with early elementary rap. Some of it is smooth but a lot of it is corny and cheesy. now it paved the way but isn't as intriguing as early 20th century jazz in my opinion. You can't cross compare early music genres based more on live instruments equally with the birth of hip hop which deals with the art of sampling and rhyming. Now Q-tip and tribe do it great. But to me the earlier ? hasn't aged well.
You don't know what you're talking about. Early Hip Hop wasn't based on sampling. When Hip Hop first started it was backed by a DJ. The DJ used to use two copies of the same record and repeat the break. That's not sampling.
When they first started making records the songs were backed by bands. They used professional session musicians (especially the stuff on Sugarhill). Some early rap songs even had a horn section.
? Rappers Delight was a sample.
Rappers Delight wasn't a sample. They replayed the break with a band.
A little piece of trivia, The Fairlight CMI was basically the first commercially available samplers. The first commercial pop song (not rap) to use a sample with the Fairlight CMI was Owner of A Lonely Heart by the band Yes.
Owner Of A Lonely Heart - Yes (1983)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsx3nGoKIN8
"In music, sampling is the act of taking a portion, or sample, of one sound recording and reusing it as an instrument or a sound recording in a different song or piece."
Which is what Sugarhill Gang did. Weather a band played it live while they were recording the song or they got straight from the record, it's a sample.
A cover would have been them(Sugarhill Gang) ACTUALLY performing Good Time's.
Clearly you know nothing about music production or music law.
What's missing from your quote is that sampling requires a *sampler* or digital recorder that performs in a manner similar to a sampler to accomplish it and, as your quote speaks to in a way, it must be of the original recording.
If you have session musicians recreating a piece, you're doing an interpolation of that piece which is typically done these days to avoid clearance issues created when you sample (a sample can be denied clearance whereas an interpolation is always granted a license as long as the composer of the piece is credited). Jermaine Dupree and Dr Dre built their 90's careers out of interpolating songs instead of sampling.
From a legal standpoint that's the difference between an interpolation and a sample: A sample can be denied clearance because it's a digital copy of an original recording whereas an interpolation is automatically granted a license so long as the original composer is credited.
What happened on Rappers Delight was the band did an interpolation of parts of Chic's "Good Times" and almost got sued for it 'cause they didn't credit Bernie Edwards and Nile Rodgers who composed the music for "Good Times". -
Mockingbird wrote: »Because it's so boring and old skool rappers can't do a hook to save their life. Their production is also dull and very bland. And the ones that do have substance don't execute it in a way that is engaging at all. They execute the message in a really boring way. It also sounds very out dated
Lacks soul
You're speaking as if the records were made yesterday ........ you have to appreciate them for the year and atmosphere of the time .......
It may be difficult for young cats to put it all in perspective because of the had to be there factor and how much hip hop has changed/changes
