Official ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC THREAD
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Fazeem Blackall wrote: »Most religious people seem more caught up on what is written then the spirit of what it is saying & thus are bound to the letters missing the points. All that Said I notice here & other places in the real world that Athiest fall into what could easily beinterupted as sects/denominations & vast different trains of thought and applications for what athiesm is. I have even reada few books/magazines on the subject & found that some used similar rhetoric to various religious groups. Thus Bringing me to ask the question is Atheism a religion in its own sense???I guess it depends on what vein of atheist you observe and what you mean by religion, Fazeem.
I noticed a few classifications of religion that seem to be on here. Some say it is a code of conduct derived from a belief system. Others say it just belief.
I have met some atheist who are more religious in terms of their routine conduct than most religious people I know. And then I have met some who are slavishly devoted to leading atheist thinkers more than a preachers flock. They suspend all critical thinking and research because_____said so. They just traded one form of sucka for leadership mentality for another.Fazeem Blackall wrote: »This is exactly my point I find & define religion as a uniform set of doctrine/routines dictated by someone who others hold as being some type of authority on the subject. Most religious people are very absolute & closed minded and I find it ironic that athiest seem to show a similar standard & some of the magzines I have found to be similar in structuring to Watchtower magazines. I am not trying to put an absolute as athiests seem to be as divided in schools of as any other religion. So running with these points you and I both agreed on would you define atheism as relgion unto itself???soul rattler wrote: »Can we get a finite definition/description of religion before we go tossing things in that category?
Religion is not theism, so thread premise is valid.
Atheism, just like theistic Satanism and demonology, is usually in response to the biggest religions throughout history. So even if atheists refuse to call atheism a "religion", they are still tied to it by association.Fazeem Blackall wrote: »relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality seems to sum up the atheist ultimate belief in that there is no supernatural or ? . A good example of this & even the breakdown of denomination or schools of thought would be Jainism - A religion founded by Nataputta, who was a royal clan of the Nata tribe in ancient India at the time of Shakyamuni. Its basic doctrine is non-materialistic atheism...Fazeem Blackall wrote: »re·li·gion
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
—Idiom 9. get religion, Informal . a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
So running further on this does Atheism adhere to these more accurrate and encompassing definitions of Religion???Fazeem Blackall wrote: »Do you deny that most athiest believe that without a doubt there is no way that a ? or Higher supernatural power exists? I ask because they are devoted to a belief & thus you come to a logical paradox either way you answer that one based on your postion on whaat a religion is...Fazeem Blackall wrote: »Here so we can bypass the spins on my words, by defintion and admission though would you not say that Most Atheists definitively believe that there is no ? /Higher Power???Atheists and religious folk hold the same amount of conviction in their belief and non-belief. Both are 100% sure that there is/isn't a ? . An agnostic falls inbetween and is willing to accept either possibility.Fazeem Blackall wrote: »points of argument on what actual atheism is which is a belief that people hold to a level of conviction and faithfull self assurity that there is no ? /higher spiritual power...Fazeem Blackall wrote: »Many religions are based soley upon common belief and conviction of that belief, now level of devotion and conviction can sometimes be assessed to measure how relgious they are.
Example a catholic that attends Mass Every week and a catholic that does not go to church, are they both not still catholic because they call themselves so based on similar/same belief sets?
The same application can be applied to atheism as there are publications meetings and social gatherings based on that shared belief for the strongly convicted but those that do not participate in those activites are considered just as much athiest because they share the same set of beliefs...soul rattler wrote: »Yes, yes it does. Atheists just have a superiority complex towards theistic religions because they're a more logical bunch.Not all of them. Some just mouth the theories of their leading thinkers just because such and such said so. They suspend critical thinking just like religious people if it validates their world view. If you were to corner some of them and ask them to explain what they mean they would be found wanting. Atheist have develped their own little cottage industry and cult following themselves, where the elite minority disseminate what they want to their adherants who gobble it up.Fazeem Blackall wrote: »It has already been established that some religions which are recognised as such incorprate atheism into the belief system used, so much like in christianity or ISlam or even Judism or Hindu it has smaller offshoots incorporating a base premise, atheism appears to have the same level of denominations as other religions...Fazeem Blackall wrote: »Some obviously do consider it a religion or cult, in some established religions it is a prime prinicple, my point in discussing was to spark conversation and debate on the matter which is why I thought we are all here. And agreement on status does not make or negate something from being what it is so the lack of uniformity on even what atheism is or stands for leave tons of room for interpretation.
The classification and religious status holds even more significance when we are discussing it here in this forum because if it is not a type of religion and defintely not a race then why is it even discussed in this forum???Fazeem Blackall wrote: »But I will run on a tangent and say a better comparison would be like saying that Both Chemists and Alchemists use chemicals and Both Astrologers and Astronomers study the stars , Hell even the church of Satan and The Christian Church both believe in the Devil and ? . On that Note Atheism and Theism seem to have equally devout and closed minded disciples and equally as many tangents and diverging criteria upon which they base there beliefs showing that there faith in being correct about all...Fazeem makes a good point. If Atheism is not a religion then why discuss it on this forum?Fazeem Blackall wrote: »Like every other religion Atheists have and seek converts...Fazeem Blackall wrote: »There are many sports fanatics that treat the respective sport of their obsession as a religion, I do not disagree about the divisiveness of many religions nor the hypocritcal stances many of them take at times.I pointed out simple traits of Uniformity that Atheists share amongst themselves and how the trains of thought, Identification and belief are parallel to most other religions in their own ways. Ultimate point being that it should be acknowledged as a religion and that those posting in its support here validate that status with every post in the religion section of this and other sites...Fazeem Blackall wrote: »Sounds very much like religion to me a set of beliefs shared by a group of individuals to the point of seeking converts as you kindly pointed out.
I just love the hypocritical irony of Atheists railing against Religion when in fact they themselves are one, It is kind of like the irony christians being nothing like Christ.
I Know very spiritual individuals(A few of whom are Budhists) who are technically Atheist because they do not believe in a supreme deity and I know others who just want to be contrary and like all other religions the many variations do not negate the commonality.
I am just pointing out a sad truth and logical flaw in closed minded thought trains on both the theistic and atheistic sides of the argument.
But I understand how devoted people can be to their religious beliefs so I will not brow beat about the denial of a belief systems status...Fazeem Blackall wrote: »Would the term shared belief be more fitting it does not change much from set of beliefs other then the getting to the fact their is a shared belief and various sects/trains of thought on the application and explanation of that belief...
The abridged argument... -
What distinguishes religion from philosophy is that religion is based on faith, not reasoning (science is distinguished from philosophy in that philosophy is purely analytical/based on reasoning whereas scientific theories have to be supported by empirical evidence, not just logic or critical thinking alone). Religious people have an emotional conviction that their views are correct and will readily admit that no amount of evidence or reasoning to the contrary can convince them otherwise because faith in the absence of evidence is a virtue.
Atheism isn't a position, it's the lack of one. Even strong atheism (ie. 'I believe there is no ? ' rather than ' I don't believe in ? ') is supported by reasoning and not accepted on faith. -
Fazeem Blackall wrote: »The abridged argument...
Seems to depend entirely on "I know some atheists who act this way."
But nobody names names.
Y'all ? is characters, not even good actors. -
A lot of generalization going on in this thread.
Atheism is a belief that there is no ? whereas agnosticism is admitting that you don't know if there is a ? .
One's a belief, one's not
I don't think Bible belief alone constitutes subscribing to a " religion" as my hebrew brothers will attest to. So atheism isn't a religion either.
Maybe I'm wrong but structured religion always involves some tradition or something ritualistic. I don't know my posts are getting a little scatterbrained.
PEACE -
The True Flesh wrote: »A lot of generalization going on in this thread.
Atheism is a belief that there is no ? whereas agnosticism is admitting that you don't know if there is a ? .
One's a belief, one's not
I don't think Bible belief alone constitutes subscribing to a " religion" as my hebrew brothers will attest to. So atheism isn't a religion either.
Maybe I'm wrong but structured religion always involves some tradition or something ritualistic. I don't know my posts are getting a little scatterbrained.
PEACE
Atheism is best defined as rejecting belief in ? or gods, as opposed to adopting the belief that there is no ? . Subtle but important differentiation.
Altho in either case it is more logical than faith in something for which there is no evidence. -
I praise to Mr. Jesus Christ because thats who massah praised to. Now I see massah dont like Mr. Jesus no mores so neither does I
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@My_nameaintearl wrote: »Because it's a topic inextricably linked to the general subject of religion and the more popular religions in particular.
People such as yourself have had the agenda of getting the atheism out of this forum for a long time but it's never worked and we've been the most influential group here. This board has never seen anybody get converted to any religion but it's seen multiple posters persuaded toward atheism.
This Board? Ha HA ha Ha. This dude said this board? Ha Ha. First you say it is not a religion then you say it is linked. Who said so? I don't and have never considered atheist in my life travels or discussions on spiritual matters. You are insignificant. You know it. That is why you come on a forum dedicated to religious discussion and dialogue and try to stir people up. Because without it, no one would pay you no never mind.
Dude I don't have an agenda. I haven't been here that long. This is not real life ? . Creator and Spiritual adherants are growing by leaps and bounds. In the real world you dudes are losing....bad too. And your wrong, I know of a couple people on this board who were undecided and chose to step into the light.
People like you are attempted spirit killers because frankly..... you're miserable and have chosen the Bah humbag path in your life. You want company. Truth be told, I don't mind your presence, all you are is sandpaper anyway, all I asked was why discuss it here, this forum is for religious discussion and enlightenment. You dudes just sidetrack it with a lot of unneccesary ? . Why don't you petition for an Atheist forum and see how that goes? -
Real talk, most atheists are scared and angry. Really. Because deep down in their hearts, they are not sure. They feel something but they can't explain it.
They claim there is no ? , yet they spend inordinate amounts of time talking about it and try to deny the existence of one.
That is crazy to me. I know there is no Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, Boogey Man, Tooth fairy, and other fictional creatures. I wouldn't waste time writing books, going on talk shows, Building websites to the dedication of any of things. Just doesn't make sense.
In the end we'll see.................. -
This Board? Ha HA ha Ha. This dude said this board? Ha Ha.
You're on this board every day until you get sonned into "coalescence."
And again, you're resorting to ad hominem and the FOX News tactic of "some say..." but you still can't name names and neither can Fazeem.
Your agenda is defending the racist UFO cult you've admitted connection to.
Atheists openly admit that we do not claim to be certain. We are not like the arrogant religious folks who claim to have found a secret knowledge.Real talk, most atheists are scared and angry. Really. Because deep down in their hearts, they are not sure.
Typical "atheists, please stop talking about the positives of atheism" post. This happens routinely, the complainers get sonned from page one, but they can't admit it.They claim there is no ? , yet they spend inordinate amounts of time talking about it and try to deny the existence of one.
You've been brainwashed since childhood into hating and fearing us, so your reaction is predictable. -
question two: what are your thoughts on religions like Buddhism
go Pirates
I don't really think it is a religion, it isn't a system of faith or any type of worship. But that's me..
Go Angels! -
I am confused name names of what or whom and why? The asking us to name names seems out of context and irrelvant to the discussion of what atheisms status is. It is more of a off topic spin to try and avoid the valid points raised and get focus off the relevance of the arguments for calling atheism a religion unto itself...@My_nameaintearl wrote: »You're on this board every day until you get sonned into "coalescence."
And again, you're resorting to ad hominem and the FOX News tactic of "some say..." but you still can't name names and neither can Fazeem.
Your agenda is defending the racist UFO cult you've admitted connection to.
Atheists openly admit that we do not claim to be certain. We are not like the arrogant religious folks who claim to have found a secret knowledge.
Typical "atheists, please stop talking about the positives of atheism" post. This happens routinely, the complainers get sonned from page one, but they can't admit it.
You've been brainwashed since childhood into hating and fearing us, so your reaction is predictable. -
@My_nameaintearl wrote: »You're on this board every day until you get sonned into "coalescence."
1. Convalescence
2. I am not on this board errday. You are by the way. Look at your post count with your newly created account after being removed. You are obsessed with IC fame.And again, you're resorting to ad hominem and the FOX News tactic of "some say..." but you still can't name names and neither can Fazeem.
I said it. Not "Some".Your agenda is defending the racist UFO cult you've admitted connection to.
Well, I am going to name names. Your agenda is to try to take as many people into your dark hearted existence and protect some of your people White Jews from being exposed as rabid abusers , exploiters, and cripplers of black people. I readily admit that I was influenced by the NOI as a young boy, as many young Black men were. It was a good thing. You on the other hand tried to deny your ethnicity after I exposed you alls historical shenanigans against Black people. What kind of ? , denies his own people who helped shaped him? Especially you because you are smarter than most people I have encountered, and that is a direct result of your upbringing in that tradition, you are a coward who throws rock behind a wall. The internet is a safe place for you.Atheists openly admit that we do not claim to be certain. We are not like the arrogant religious folks who claim to have found a secret knowledge.
Quit trying to wear someone elses clothes. Agnostics do that. Many Atheists like Stephen Hawking and Richard Dawkins have claimed such. They have likened them to fairy tales. Agnostics(I used to be one for a time) hold that position. And you are probably even more arrogant from my obsevation. I have seen you post many times. There is no ? . And make fun of people who belive in the Abrahamic tradition. Do you deny that? See, you lying B, and being hypocritical. And don't cop that Agnostic Atheism canard. We ain't buying it.Typical "atheists, please stop talking about the positives of atheism" post. This happens routinely, the complainers get sonned from page one, but they can't admit it.
LOL. If you buy that self-important argument, OK. The only positive to atheism is that it forces religious people to be more critical and knowledgable of what they claim to believe. Atheist have killed, deceived, and usurped just as much as anybody(well except Euro-Christians). In the end, you are ? like everybody else.You've been brainwashed since childhood into hating and fearing us, so your reaction is predictable.
Ha Ha. Nice try. I received a well rounded education as a boy, which has enabled me to be comfy in many circles. I never was taught against you, didn't even know people like you existed. Because in truth, you all are not that relevant. And, you are the fearful ones. You hide your belief behind online forums, the safe confines of insulated academia, and media. Most of you dudes are soft as baby ? . I have some aquaintances who are avowed atheist and I am not fearful or hate them. That is silly. What you are doing is projecting your hate and fear on us, because that is what you were raised on as a little boy to do. I know all about how you were taught to view people who didn't share your ethnicity. You probably became disenfranchised with that and adopted atheism(as a large number of them come from your people) and just transferred your fear and hatred toward the object of your dissatisfaction. Religion.
You don't see us posting hateful things about atheist. Sour grapes ass ? -
ether-i-am wrote: »
........................
Who is us? And why is is arrogant to believe that when I can go into the Earth and the atmosphere and extract and manufacture things that are beneficial for human beings?
That is not arrogance. That is active gratitutde. -
Religious posters give these long drawn out explanations that lack any substance instead of addressing the criticisms of their goofball beliefs head on... I wonder why?
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I dunno Jonas, but I'm amused that And Sashay said he was about to name names and then didn't name any.
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I said White Jews and NOI.
Those are names, right? I mean that is what Mr. Weiss taught me in 4th grade. I miss that dude.... -
And Sashay, you served a prison sentence, right? What were you in for?
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@My_nameaintearl wrote: »And Sashay, you served a prison sentence, right? What were you in for?
Yes. I was in Aushwitz. I told them I was a German with a suntan but they didn't believe me and ? . I was in for insulting the Fuhrer. I told him his moustache was ? and he biting Charlie Chaplin -
? personally gave props to Jesse Owens. Eisenhower never even mentioned him.
America is worse than ? . -
But seriously, you were sent to prison, And Sashay.
Did you plead guilty? Who did you sell out? Why did you do that? -
@My_nameaintearl wrote: »? personally gave props to Jesse Owens. Eisenhower never even mentioned him.
America is worse than ? .
I never heard that one, before.
But I guess when an inferior sons a whole field of superiors, then you really can't turn around and say " Man, ? that ? !" -
@My_nameaintearl wrote: »But seriously, you were sent to prison, And Sashay.
Did you plead guilty? Who did you sell out? Why did you do that?
The only time I set foot in a prison was to visit your moms. We had a nice partnership, I fronted her cash and she used to sell kufis and bagels on 127th, but she never wanted to do it on the up and up and get her vendor license, so she got knocked for 3 months. I kept her commisary up though. After all, she made me a nice amount of cheese. -
Since you've dropped the fake academic smart ? gimmick, everybody can see that you've caught feelings, my ? .
So tell us your story. Why did you get locked up, why did you plead guilty, and how much of a struggle was it for a frail geek like yourself to maintain your manhood? -
Why are you overly concerned with my feelings and why do you want me to reveal prison stories about ? ? ?
I'm not comfortable with this line of questioning and probing(NoNY). -
Theism
Bitheism
Agnosticism
Gnosticism
Racism
Atomism
Hylotheism
Geocentrism
Egalitarianism
Bullionism
Catastrophism
Gradualism
Hedonism
Individualism
Idealism
Historicism
Eidolism
Romanticism
Eternalism
Finalism
Fortuitism
Conservatism
Constructivism
Monism
Intellectualism
^^^Just some other things that'd be considered religions under the "Atheism is a religion because being an atheist qualifies as devoting oneself to atheism." reasoning.fiat_money wrote: »...Saying that someone having a belief qualifies as devoting themselves to that same belief merely because they have it as a belief is a logical paradox.
LOL. But yeh, this thread is becoming less interesting.
This discussion has been closed.