Rapper Ranking Project: Rapper #3 - Tupac
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »I think you confusing me saying it's not objective.... I believe your initial ratings are you being objective but your overall ratings aren't objective becuz none of them are you pulling your own personal feelings out is my point.... If you say Pac is a 3 story teller and EVERYBODY tells you he's a 5 so you say "ok I'll give y'all 4" and leave that as your final rating that's not an objective rating becuz you still had to have your personal feelings apart of it and only wanted to meet in the middle if everybody telling you that you wrong an objective rating would be to give him a 5 that's why having one person can't work becuz when it's just one person 9 times outta 10 they always gonna wanna still have their way some kinda way whether they're right or wrong
I get what you're saying here, but that's not how any of these topics have gone down. First of all, there was never any "everybody" saying anything. Even in this topic. Not everyone is saying Pac gets a 5 for storytelling. Only 2 or 3 people are saying that and 2 or 3 people are saying the exact opposite. Second, every request for a score change has to be backed by solid reasoning. Again, if there are three things noted that keep Pac from being a 5 and someone makes a good argument that covers one of those things, that's not going to jump him up to a 5. How much it jumps is subjective though, which is why I always ask if everyone agrees with how much I'm going to adjust in response to the argument. No one ever comments in response. When I've said, "I'm going to raise this score .5, what do ya'll think?" No one responded. So what else do you want me to do?And I know how it's SUPPOSE to work you just don't understand why it will never work the way you want it to which I tried to tell you when you first started and that's becuz when everybody knows only one person makes all the decisions who you think they all gonna wanna debate??? That one person so your threads will just turn into everybody tryna convince you becuz we all know your opinion is the only one that counts...... There's a reason why courts don't let judges see the appeals to their rulings even if their ruling are objective the appeal won't be becuz you not gonna be able to 100% take your personal feelings away from your initial ruling and make a neural judgement smh
That makes no sense because if the topic worked the way I intended, I wouldn't be making any decisions at all. Say may score for Pac in Storytelling is a 3... Now say Sion came in and said it should be a 4 and provided his argument. The way the thread is supposed to work is that if there are 12 people in here taking part, then all 12 would use their reactions to vote on Sion's motion. If the majority agreed with his argument, then I would change the score. In other words, like I keep telling you, I'm not supposed to be making any decisions at all. So your reasoning for why it would work makes no sense. The reason it's not working is that people don't really want to do anything that systematic. People really just want to post their scores and have those scores counted towards the end result somehow. And that's fine, it's just not what I was trying to accomplish here.
I really wise you could get this part but I see you really won't... Why would ppl debate with Sion if we all know his opinion ain't the one that matters???? Ppl wanna debate the person who holds the fate of the ratings and if that one person is you then that's who everybody gonna go debate with but if everybody knew it was just a avg score then ppl would debate each other becuz everybody would know their scores all count the same... Why would ppl argue with each other when you the sole controller of the scores ppl just gonna cut out the middle man and go straight to the top but again you not understanding that simple logic
You're the one that's not getting it. If the bold works as I said, arguing with me wouldn't do anything. If you put your argument to me, and everyone voted you down, it doesn't matter what I think, your argument would be rejected. Again, the only reason I'm making decisions is because no one is voting. We're not talking about arguing with me vs arguing with everyone else. We're talking about posting an argument, that everyone can chime in on. Again, as I've said a million times, if the thread went as I wanted, I would have no input on the actual scoring after the baseline I posted. Past that, the only thing I would do is change the score based on the group consensus or point out when someone is not following the rules. You keep calling me the sole controller or dictator because I change the scores. That's like saying the court reporter has all the power because he or she records the court's findings. -
Teardrops and Closed Caskets
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Teardrops and Closed Caskets
Thats it? People are giving Pac a 5 in storytelling for Brendas Got A Baby and Teardrops and Closed Caskets?
Slick Rick, Nas and Biggie have a handful of stories.
Biggie has more stories than Pac and Pac has twice as much material. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »I think you confusing me saying it's not objective.... I believe your initial ratings are you being objective but your overall ratings aren't objective becuz none of them are you pulling your own personal feelings out is my point.... If you say Pac is a 3 story teller and EVERYBODY tells you he's a 5 so you say "ok I'll give y'all 4" and leave that as your final rating that's not an objective rating becuz you still had to have your personal feelings apart of it and only wanted to meet in the middle if everybody telling you that you wrong an objective rating would be to give him a 5 that's why having one person can't work becuz when it's just one person 9 times outta 10 they always gonna wanna still have their way some kinda way whether they're right or wrong
I get what you're saying here, but that's not how any of these topics have gone down. First of all, there was never any "everybody" saying anything. Even in this topic. Not everyone is saying Pac gets a 5 for storytelling. Only 2 or 3 people are saying that and 2 or 3 people are saying the exact opposite. Second, every request for a score change has to be backed by solid reasoning. Again, if there are three things noted that keep Pac from being a 5 and someone makes a good argument that covers one of those things, that's not going to jump him up to a 5. How much it jumps is subjective though, which is why I always ask if everyone agrees with how much I'm going to adjust in response to the argument. No one ever comments in response. When I've said, "I'm going to raise this score .5, what do ya'll think?" No one responded. So what else do you want me to do?And I know how it's SUPPOSE to work you just don't understand why it will never work the way you want it to which I tried to tell you when you first started and that's becuz when everybody knows only one person makes all the decisions who you think they all gonna wanna debate??? That one person so your threads will just turn into everybody tryna convince you becuz we all know your opinion is the only one that counts...... There's a reason why courts don't let judges see the appeals to their rulings even if their ruling are objective the appeal won't be becuz you not gonna be able to 100% take your personal feelings away from your initial ruling and make a neural judgement smh
That makes no sense because if the topic worked the way I intended, I wouldn't be making any decisions at all. Say may score for Pac in Storytelling is a 3... Now say Sion came in and said it should be a 4 and provided his argument. The way the thread is supposed to work is that if there are 12 people in here taking part, then all 12 would use their reactions to vote on Sion's motion. If the majority agreed with his argument, then I would change the score. In other words, like I keep telling you, I'm not supposed to be making any decisions at all. So your reasoning for why it would work makes no sense. The reason it's not working is that people don't really want to do anything that systematic. People really just want to post their scores and have those scores counted towards the end result somehow. And that's fine, it's just not what I was trying to accomplish here.
I really wise you could get this part but I see you really won't... Why would ppl debate with Sion if we all know his opinion ain't the one that matters???? Ppl wanna debate the person who holds the fate of the ratings and if that one person is you then that's who everybody gonna go debate with but if everybody knew it was just a avg score then ppl would debate each other becuz everybody would know their scores all count the same... Why would ppl argue with each other when you the sole controller of the scores ppl just gonna cut out the middle man and go straight to the top but again you not understanding that simple logic
You're the one that's not getting it. If the bold works as I said, arguing with me wouldn't do anything. If you put your argument to me, and everyone voted you down, it doesn't matter what I think, your argument would be rejected. Again, the only reason I'm making decisions is because no one is voting. We're not talking about arguing with me vs arguing with everyone else. We're talking about posting an argument, that everyone can chime in on. Again, as I've said a million times, if the thread went as I wanted, I would have no input on the actual scoring after the baseline I posted. Past that, the only thing I would do is change the score based on the group consensus or point out when someone is not following the rules. You keep calling me the sole controller or dictator because I change the scores. That's like saying the court reporter has all the power because he or she records the court's findings.
The court reporter doesn't rule on a case smmfh.... Aight man this is pointless you not getting it you keep saying what you wanted it to do and I'm telling you why it didn't work that way and you keep repeating what you wanted it to do... I get it you wanted everyone to debate among each other and you just sit back observe and rate based on what we being said I GET IT but you not getting it.... Once you made your rating and ppl seen that you control the ratings then everybody became more concerned with your rating then making their own becuz your rating is the one that matters you not getting it..... I get what you wanted to happen I'm telling you as long as you were the sole controller why it was never gonna happen only way it would have happened is if you didn't give a rating at all and just watched what ppl said but once you started out with yours you set the narrative becuz now your rating is what ppl are concentrated on -
Teardrops and Closed Caskets
That's a legit story. But be real, is that story any more creative or better told than this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DCMtIan10A
Trick Daddy ain't a great storyteller, but he's got a few good one under his belt too. Some people think I'm saying Pac can't tell stories by giving him a 3. That's not the case. It just means that when it comes to storytelling, he's not better than a lot of good rappers. Ironically the song posted is influenced by Pac. lol -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »I think you confusing me saying it's not objective.... I believe your initial ratings are you being objective but your overall ratings aren't objective becuz none of them are you pulling your own personal feelings out is my point.... If you say Pac is a 3 story teller and EVERYBODY tells you he's a 5 so you say "ok I'll give y'all 4" and leave that as your final rating that's not an objective rating becuz you still had to have your personal feelings apart of it and only wanted to meet in the middle if everybody telling you that you wrong an objective rating would be to give him a 5 that's why having one person can't work becuz when it's just one person 9 times outta 10 they always gonna wanna still have their way some kinda way whether they're right or wrong
I get what you're saying here, but that's not how any of these topics have gone down. First of all, there was never any "everybody" saying anything. Even in this topic. Not everyone is saying Pac gets a 5 for storytelling. Only 2 or 3 people are saying that and 2 or 3 people are saying the exact opposite. Second, every request for a score change has to be backed by solid reasoning. Again, if there are three things noted that keep Pac from being a 5 and someone makes a good argument that covers one of those things, that's not going to jump him up to a 5. How much it jumps is subjective though, which is why I always ask if everyone agrees with how much I'm going to adjust in response to the argument. No one ever comments in response. When I've said, "I'm going to raise this score .5, what do ya'll think?" No one responded. So what else do you want me to do?And I know how it's SUPPOSE to work you just don't understand why it will never work the way you want it to which I tried to tell you when you first started and that's becuz when everybody knows only one person makes all the decisions who you think they all gonna wanna debate??? That one person so your threads will just turn into everybody tryna convince you becuz we all know your opinion is the only one that counts...... There's a reason why courts don't let judges see the appeals to their rulings even if their ruling are objective the appeal won't be becuz you not gonna be able to 100% take your personal feelings away from your initial ruling and make a neural judgement smh
That makes no sense because if the topic worked the way I intended, I wouldn't be making any decisions at all. Say may score for Pac in Storytelling is a 3... Now say Sion came in and said it should be a 4 and provided his argument. The way the thread is supposed to work is that if there are 12 people in here taking part, then all 12 would use their reactions to vote on Sion's motion. If the majority agreed with his argument, then I would change the score. In other words, like I keep telling you, I'm not supposed to be making any decisions at all. So your reasoning for why it would work makes no sense. The reason it's not working is that people don't really want to do anything that systematic. People really just want to post their scores and have those scores counted towards the end result somehow. And that's fine, it's just not what I was trying to accomplish here.
I really wise you could get this part but I see you really won't... Why would ppl debate with Sion if we all know his opinion ain't the one that matters???? Ppl wanna debate the person who holds the fate of the ratings and if that one person is you then that's who everybody gonna go debate with but if everybody knew it was just a avg score then ppl would debate each other becuz everybody would know their scores all count the same... Why would ppl argue with each other when you the sole controller of the scores ppl just gonna cut out the middle man and go straight to the top but again you not understanding that simple logic
You're the one that's not getting it. If the bold works as I said, arguing with me wouldn't do anything. If you put your argument to me, and everyone voted you down, it doesn't matter what I think, your argument would be rejected. Again, the only reason I'm making decisions is because no one is voting. We're not talking about arguing with me vs arguing with everyone else. We're talking about posting an argument, that everyone can chime in on. Again, as I've said a million times, if the thread went as I wanted, I would have no input on the actual scoring after the baseline I posted. Past that, the only thing I would do is change the score based on the group consensus or point out when someone is not following the rules. You keep calling me the sole controller or dictator because I change the scores. That's like saying the court reporter has all the power because he or she records the court's findings.
The court reporter doesn't rule on a case smmfh.... Aight man this is pointless you not getting it you keep saying what you wanted it to do and I'm telling you why it didn't work that way and you keep repeating what you wanted it to do... I get it you wanted everyone to debate among each other and you just sit back observe and rate based on what we being said I GET IT but you not getting it.... Once you made your rating and ppl seen that you control the ratings then everybody became more concerned with your rating then making their own becuz your rating is the one that matters you not getting it..... I get what you wanted to happen I'm telling you as long as you were the sole controller why it was never gonna happen only way it would have happened is if you didn't give a rating at all and just watched what ppl said but once you started out with yours you set the narrative becuz now your rating is what ppl are concentrated on
And I wouldn't be deciding the case either, genius. I'd just be recording what the group decided just like a court reporter.
You keep on saying I'm not getting something. I just don't agree with you dude. You just don't seem to understand that. The topic didn't work because people didn't really want to bother with the rules. They just wanted to post their scores. It's really that simple. There are a few people, you being the primary one, that don't like how I was doing things and wanted to weigh the topics down with your disapproval of the methodology rather than just trying to participate at the thread was designed. But your feelings don't represent the majority in here. You got like 2 or 3 people that are saying what you're saying, but many more have contributed and let it be. Like I said, if you and Sion want to take over and do it your way, be my guest. But stop bloating yourself up to be something you're not. You aren't explaining ? to me other than your own problem with what I was doing. -
Nah, Pac is definitely an excellent story teller. Yall tripping
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Nah, Pac is definitely an excellent story teller. Yall tripping
So name some stories he told -
Nah, Pac is definitely an excellent story teller. Yall tripping
No one saying he's not. He just doesn't rate as highly as other based on the established set of characteristics. Again, getting a 3 does not mean you aren't a good storyteller. -
Other that's not mentioned
Violent
Soulja story
Dopefiends diner
16 on death row
Case of the missing mic
Wonder why they call you ?
But none really stacks up the other legends stories -
He just tells a story in different way but it's still just as vivid in my head when I listen. Pac's storytelling >>> Biggie... Only rappers who are better at this to me are Nas and Ghostface
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He just tells a story in different way but it's still just as vivid in my head when I listen. Pac's storytelling >>> Biggie... Only rappers who are better at this to me are Nas and Ghostface
I think the confusion here is why he gets a lower score. It's not because he doesn't tell stories as well as Biggie or others when he does. It's because relevant to the vast amount of songs he has out there, stories don't really make up a very big percentage. The subject matter is pretty limited (just like with Biggie although not quite as bad). And his stories are pretty standard. He doesn't really take many chances with the subject matter or method of delivery. That's why I gave him a 3. His stories are great, but when you take his body of work and compare it to that of a truly great storyteller like Nas or Ghost, it doesn't really measure up. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »He just tells a story in different way but it's still just as vivid in my head when I listen. Pac's storytelling >>> Biggie... Only rappers who are better at this to me are Nas and Ghostface
I think the confusion here is why he gets a lower score. It's not because he doesn't tell stories as well as Biggie or others when he does. It's because relevant to the vast amount of songs he has out there, stories don't really make up a very big percentage. The subject matter is pretty limited (just like with Biggie although not quite as bad). And his stories are pretty standard. He doesn't really take many chances with the subject matter or method of delivery. That's why I gave him a 3. His stories are great, but when you take his body of work and compare it to that of a truly great storyteller like Nas or Ghost, it doesn't really measure up.
What are you talking about? There's storytelling in mostly all his songs. Tupac and limited subject matter don't go together -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »I think you confusing me saying it's not objective.... I believe your initial ratings are you being objective but your overall ratings aren't objective becuz none of them are you pulling your own personal feelings out is my point.... If you say Pac is a 3 story teller and EVERYBODY tells you he's a 5 so you say "ok I'll give y'all 4" and leave that as your final rating that's not an objective rating becuz you still had to have your personal feelings apart of it and only wanted to meet in the middle if everybody telling you that you wrong an objective rating would be to give him a 5 that's why having one person can't work becuz when it's just one person 9 times outta 10 they always gonna wanna still have their way some kinda way whether they're right or wrong
I get what you're saying here, but that's not how any of these topics have gone down. First of all, there was never any "everybody" saying anything. Even in this topic. Not everyone is saying Pac gets a 5 for storytelling. Only 2 or 3 people are saying that and 2 or 3 people are saying the exact opposite. Second, every request for a score change has to be backed by solid reasoning. Again, if there are three things noted that keep Pac from being a 5 and someone makes a good argument that covers one of those things, that's not going to jump him up to a 5. How much it jumps is subjective though, which is why I always ask if everyone agrees with how much I'm going to adjust in response to the argument. No one ever comments in response. When I've said, "I'm going to raise this score .5, what do ya'll think?" No one responded. So what else do you want me to do?And I know how it's SUPPOSE to work you just don't understand why it will never work the way you want it to which I tried to tell you when you first started and that's becuz when everybody knows only one person makes all the decisions who you think they all gonna wanna debate??? That one person so your threads will just turn into everybody tryna convince you becuz we all know your opinion is the only one that counts...... There's a reason why courts don't let judges see the appeals to their rulings even if their ruling are objective the appeal won't be becuz you not gonna be able to 100% take your personal feelings away from your initial ruling and make a neural judgement smh
That makes no sense because if the topic worked the way I intended, I wouldn't be making any decisions at all. Say may score for Pac in Storytelling is a 3... Now say Sion came in and said it should be a 4 and provided his argument. The way the thread is supposed to work is that if there are 12 people in here taking part, then all 12 would use their reactions to vote on Sion's motion. If the majority agreed with his argument, then I would change the score. In other words, like I keep telling you, I'm not supposed to be making any decisions at all. So your reasoning for why it would work makes no sense. The reason it's not working is that people don't really want to do anything that systematic. People really just want to post their scores and have those scores counted towards the end result somehow. And that's fine, it's just not what I was trying to accomplish here.
I really wise you could get this part but I see you really won't... Why would ppl debate with Sion if we all know his opinion ain't the one that matters???? Ppl wanna debate the person who holds the fate of the ratings and if that one person is you then that's who everybody gonna go debate with but if everybody knew it was just a avg score then ppl would debate each other becuz everybody would know their scores all count the same... Why would ppl argue with each other when you the sole controller of the scores ppl just gonna cut out the middle man and go straight to the top but again you not understanding that simple logic
You're the one that's not getting it. If the bold works as I said, arguing with me wouldn't do anything. If you put your argument to me, and everyone voted you down, it doesn't matter what I think, your argument would be rejected. Again, the only reason I'm making decisions is because no one is voting. We're not talking about arguing with me vs arguing with everyone else. We're talking about posting an argument, that everyone can chime in on. Again, as I've said a million times, if the thread went as I wanted, I would have no input on the actual scoring after the baseline I posted. Past that, the only thing I would do is change the score based on the group consensus or point out when someone is not following the rules. You keep calling me the sole controller or dictator because I change the scores. That's like saying the court reporter has all the power because he or she records the court's findings.
The court reporter doesn't rule on a case smmfh.... Aight man this is pointless you not getting it you keep saying what you wanted it to do and I'm telling you why it didn't work that way and you keep repeating what you wanted it to do... I get it you wanted everyone to debate among each other and you just sit back observe and rate based on what we being said I GET IT but you not getting it.... Once you made your rating and ppl seen that you control the ratings then everybody became more concerned with your rating then making their own becuz your rating is the one that matters you not getting it..... I get what you wanted to happen I'm telling you as long as you were the sole controller why it was never gonna happen only way it would have happened is if you didn't give a rating at all and just watched what ppl said but once you started out with yours you set the narrative becuz now your rating is what ppl are concentrated on
And I wouldn't be deciding the case either, genius. I'd just be recording what the group decided just like a court reporter.
You keep on saying I'm not getting something. I just don't agree with you dude. You just don't seem to understand that. The topic didn't work because people didn't really want to bother with the rules. They just wanted to post their scores. It's really that simple. There are a few people, you being the primary one, that don't like how I was doing things and wanted to weigh the topics down with your disapproval of the methodology rather than just trying to participate at the thread was designed. But your feelings don't represent the majority in here. You got like 2 or 3 people that are saying what you're saying, but many more have contributed and let it be. Like I said, if you and Sion want to take over and do it your way, be my guest. But stop bloating yourself up to be something you're not. You aren't explaining ? to me other than your own problem with what I was doing.
Fool how would you only be reporting if you literally give out the FIRST judgment and then you go from there that's how I know you don't know what you talking about you not just reporting you making decisions something a damn court reporter doesn't do a court reporter can't say someone is guilty or dish out time but you can change a rating to your liking.... That was a horrible analogy but do you bruh let's just all keep going back and forth with you about why your ratings are right or wrong becuz that's how we'll get an objective rating going back and forth with the person that controls what the ratings will look like on the end smh..... Gone head and cook -
Cube is better than both of them. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »He just tells a story in different way but it's still just as vivid in my head when I listen. Pac's storytelling >>> Biggie... Only rappers who are better at this to me are Nas and Ghostface
I think the confusion here is why he gets a lower score. It's not because he doesn't tell stories as well as Biggie or others when he does. It's because relevant to the vast amount of songs he has out there, stories don't really make up a very big percentage. The subject matter is pretty limited (just like with Biggie although not quite as bad). And his stories are pretty standard. He doesn't really take many chances with the subject matter or method of delivery. That's why I gave him a 3. His stories are great, but when you take his body of work and compare it to that of a truly great storyteller like Nas or Ghost, it doesn't really measure up.
What are you talking about? There's storytelling in mostly all his songs. Tupac and limited subject matter don't go together
Dog we aren't talking about him dropping 6 or 7 lines of narrative in a three verse song. That's what ya'll don't get. That's not strong storytelling. We're talking about a rappers ability to carry a narrative through a song or even a verse. You guys keep wanting to throw out these songs that largely aren't stories as examples of his storytelling just because like 10% of the song actually has some narrative elements. The storytelling in songs like that is nothing compared to songs where there is a full blown narrative that is expertly carried throughout the whole song.
And Tupac's storytelling subject matter is somewhat limited. It's all typically based in black struggle, which is a good topic, but it's still a pretty isolated lane. Again, look at someone like Ghostface who is a legit 5 storyteller. The ? could go from telling a story about being on the run after shooting someone in the face to telling a story about a barber ? up his haircut to telling a story about going undersea and ? with a city of mermaids. Like that's not exaggeration. Those are actual stories in his catalog. Compare the breadth of that subject matter to Pac's subject matter. Or take someone like Nas who is rapping stories in reverse or telling a story from the perspective of a bullet. Now compare that creativity in storytelling to Pac who basically tells every story in the same way. If rappers like Nas and Ghost are the standard for a 5 in Storytelling, it should be easy to see why Pac isn't there. -
Built 4 cuban linx wrote: »
Other that's not mentioned
Violent
Soulja story
Dopefiends diner
16 on death row
Case of the missing mic
Wonder why they call you ?
But none really stacks up the other legends stories
I'll give those songs a listen, but those aren't his most popular songs. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Soloman_The_Wise wrote: »ob·jec·tive
əbˈjektiv/
adjective
adjective: objective
1.
(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
"historians try to be objective and impartial"
synonyms: impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, nonpartisan, disinterested, neutral, uninvolved, even-handed, equitable, fair, fair-minded, just, open-minded, dispassionate, detached, neutral
So if you see that definition, you should know why what you guys are saying has nothing to do with objectivity.
One person can be objective (the definition itself is specific to a single person). All objectivity means is that the decisions are made based on facts and not opinions. The whole reason I broke it into categories and had defined scoring guidelines is to reduce the subjectivity needed to produce scores. When I decided whether to change a score or not, it had nothing to do with my opinion on the person's argument. The only thing I considered was whether or not the argument was in line with the rules of the topic. Again, I made changes even when, in my opinion, the person was wrong. I did that because I was being objective. If I was being a dictator like @GetoBoy keeps claiming, I would have only made a change if I agreed with what a poster said.
That said, what he says here:One person tryna control all the ratings is the worse way to do a rating system is what it all boils down to... Nothing is truly objective when one person is the sole judge jury and executioner of everything... It would be like a judge hearing a case from everybody making the final ruling then when they try to appeal the ruling they appealing to the same judge that made the ruling in the first place everybody gotta make their case to you then you make the final ruling then if we appeal we gotta appeal to you about your own ruling..... Ain't nothing about that objective sorry
is not about objectivity. He doesn't seem to know what that word means. However, it is a fair point. There is no appeal process in this topic. So if I shoot down someone's suggestion, there is no way to get a second ruling. However, what he seems to not understand is me ruling on something is supposed to be the last ditch effort for consensus. If the topic worked the way I intended and wrote up in the instructions, you guys would be the one determining whether a change was made by using the reactions to agree or disagree with arguments. If there was a majority agreement between the people active in the topic, I would change the score. It just didn't work out that way, so I usually had to wind up making a decision, and even then, before I made a decision I constantly asked if anyone had any insight they wanted to offere, but no one ever responded. So again, he keeps accusing me of being a dictator largely because a) he doesn't know what the word "objective" means and b) he doesn't understand how the topic was supposed to work and how people aren't even trying to exercise the power they have in the topic.
All that Said and Done one way to insure a higher degree of Objectivity is to average out the votes. I would never say one person cannot be objective but with the dynamics of this site and the whole point of a message board the Law of Averages removes another layer from any criticism because it incorporates multiple individuals objectivity. Without using an averaging process it is simply your Objective opinion and whatever factors may have influenced your thought process... -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »He just tells a story in different way but it's still just as vivid in my head when I listen. Pac's storytelling >>> Biggie... Only rappers who are better at this to me are Nas and Ghostface
I think the confusion here is why he gets a lower score. It's not because he doesn't tell stories as well as Biggie or others when he does. It's because relevant to the vast amount of songs he has out there, stories don't really make up a very big percentage.
So the score isn't based on his actual story telling ability but on the percentage of his catalog that can be considered story telling?
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »He just tells a story in different way but it's still just as vivid in my head when I listen. Pac's storytelling >>> Biggie... Only rappers who are better at this to me are Nas and Ghostface
I think the confusion here is why he gets a lower score. It's not because he doesn't tell stories as well as Biggie or others when he does. It's because relevant to the vast amount of songs he has out there, stories don't really make up a very big percentage.
So the score isn't based on his actual story telling ability but on the percentage of his catalog that can be considered story telling?
It's based on all the following:
Ability to hold a cohesive narrative
Detail of stories
Clarity of stories
Body of work
Variety of story subjects
Creativity displayed in stories
The problem is that Pac is really good in some of those areas and just OK in others. That's why he doesn't deserve a 5 or even a 4 in my opinion. -
In this lies the issue most are having because even Though you may feel your opinion is objective it is still your opinion and view on objectivity that is based on your worldview and understandings. The average takes into account that opinion components and makes its impact nominal as it objectively looks past ones worldview to find a center road that each facet related to a perception is connected to...The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »He just tells a story in different way but it's still just as vivid in my head when I listen. Pac's storytelling >>> Biggie... Only rappers who are better at this to me are Nas and Ghostface
I think the confusion here is why he gets a lower score. It's not because he doesn't tell stories as well as Biggie or others when he does. It's because relevant to the vast amount of songs he has out there, stories don't really make up a very big percentage.
So the score isn't based on his actual story telling ability but on the percentage of his catalog that can be considered story telling?
It's based on all the following:
Ability to hold a cohesive narrative
Detail of stories
Clarity of stories
Body of work
Variety of story subjects
Creativity displayed in stories
The problem is that Pac is really good in some of those areas and just OK in others. That's why he doesn't deserve a 5 or even a 4 in my opinion.
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Soloman_The_Wise wrote: »
In this lies the issue most are having because even Though you may feel your opinion is objective it is still your opinion and view on objectivity that is based on your worldview and understandings. The average takes into account that opinion components and makes its impact nominal as it objectively looks past ones worldview to find a center road that each facet related to a perception is connected to...The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »He just tells a story in different way but it's still just as vivid in my head when I listen. Pac's storytelling >>> Biggie... Only rappers who are better at this to me are Nas and Ghostface
I think the confusion here is why he gets a lower score. It's not because he doesn't tell stories as well as Biggie or others when he does. It's because relevant to the vast amount of songs he has out there, stories don't really make up a very big percentage.
So the score isn't based on his actual story telling ability but on the percentage of his catalog that can be considered story telling?
It's based on all the following:
Ability to hold a cohesive narrative
Detail of stories
Clarity of stories
Body of work
Variety of story subjects
Creativity displayed in stories
The problem is that Pac is really good in some of those areas and just OK in others. That's why he doesn't deserve a 5 or even a 4 in my opinion.
Exactly that's all I'm tryna say his rating might very well be an objective rating but the overall rating for the rapper isn't as objective becuz it's mainly based around his views -
Soloman_The_Wise wrote: »All that Said and Done one way to insure a higher degree of Objectivity is to average out the votes. I would never say one person cannot be objective but with the dynamics of this site and the whole point of a message board the Law of Averages removes another layer from any criticism because it incorporates multiple individuals objectivity. Without using an averaging process it is simply your Objective opinion and whatever factors may have influenced your thought process...
This is wrong for two very obvious reasons. The Law of Averages applies to situations where the outcomes are equally likely like the flip of a coin or the roll of die. For it to apply to this situation, you'd have to assume that biased positive scores are equally likely to biased negative scores, that when you apply the average they would cancel each other out and the relatively objective scores would win out. There is no reason to believe that is the case. In fact when you look at what's happened in the three topics so far, we know for a fact it's not true. There have been plenty of "So and So is the GOAT, he gets all 5s." There haven't been any "So and So is wack, he gets all 3s" as far as I've seen. So clearly, the fanboyish post are more likely than the hater posts.
The second reason is actually more damning. Even if all outcomes in this case were likely, the Law of Averages specifically applies to large sample sets. In each of these topics we have gotten 20 or less sets of scores, that's not a large sample, certainly not large enough to eliminate the effect of large outliers. Once again, a simple average is not a good way of dealing with a skewed data set.
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Soloman_The_Wise wrote: »All that Said and Done one way to insure a higher degree of Objectivity is to average out the votes. I would never say one person cannot be objective but with the dynamics of this site and the whole point of a message board the Law of Averages removes another layer from any criticism because it incorporates multiple individuals objectivity. Without using an averaging process it is simply your Objective opinion and whatever factors may have influenced your thought process...
This is wrong for two very obvious reasons. The Law of Averages applies to situations where the outcomes are equally likely like the flip of a coin or the roll of die. For it to apply to this situation, you'd have to assume that biased positive scores are equally likely to biased negative scores, that when you apply the average they would cancel each other out and the relatively objective scores would win out. There is no reason to believe that is the case. In fact when you look at what's happened in the three topics so far, we know for a fact it's not true. There have been plenty of "So and So is the GOAT, he gets all 5s." There haven't been any "So and So is wack, he gets all 3s" as far as I've seen. So clearly, the fanboyish post are more likely than the hater posts.
The second reason is actually more damning. Even if all outcomes in this case were likely, the Law of Averages specifically applies to large sample sets. In each of these topics we have gotten 20 or less sets of scores, that's not a large sample, certainly not large enough to eliminate the effect of large outliers. Once again, a simple average is not a good way of dealing with a skewed data set. We can do this all day man. About 40% of what I do at work is statistical analysis and another 20% is serving on technical review boards. This is how I know that a lot of this ya'll are suggesting is now how things are done when you're trying to objective assess something.Soloman_The_Wise wrote: »In this lies the issue most are having because even Though you may feel your opinion is objective it is still your opinion and view on objectivity that is based on your worldview and understandings. The average takes into account that opinion components and makes its impact nominal as it objectively looks past ones worldview to find a center road that each facet related to a perception is connected to...
I've always admitted there is a small level of judgement call here that is going to require some subjectivity. My point has been that you can't eliminate that through an average or a panel of people. It's always going to be there. And again, my purpose was never to judge anything, only to moderate. However, if no one is going to vote, then I had to make a judgement, and I just myself better to be objective than people who come in here saying that a rapper is their favorite rapper. -
All these paragraphs start the next ? thread man lol
