Peyton Manning or Tom Brady ?
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plain and simple, manning chokes under pressure. had the best talent around him at tennessee and couldnt get it done. the following year tee martin wins the national championship with basically the same team. peyton choked in 2003 and 2004 championship game. he choked in the super bowl 2 years back. he choked against the patriots last year. the only super he's got he threw more interceptions than touchdowns that post-season. i dont care that he has consecutive 4,000 yard passing seasons and 4 mvp's. he has to be the mvp of his team, besides 2006 he wasnt even best player on his team. dwight freeney was the best player on the 2006 team. peyton calls the plays moore tells him to call and then he audibles to a post pattern or a 2-yard out. seems to me, teams are starting to catch on. brady was the first unanimous mvp last year and had 3 receivers under 5'9'' and 2 rookie tight ends and had to change offensive game plans after they let moss go. think we will ever see manning throw over 300 passes without an interception.....NO. manning is a yard-eating regular season quarterback that cant get it done in the clutch with hall-of-fame talent around him for most of his career. manning is a very good quarterback, but he is not better than brady. judging by the facts, if you had to win one game that mattered( play-offs) who would you want to win the game- brady. 3 rings to 1. he has had better defenses, but way inferior talent on offense. colts should score 50 points a game, but they dont. he gets 4,000 yard seasons because he gives up on the running game, and joe addai is a better running back than green-ellis and woodhead. manning fans keep saying give manning credit. everyone in the world gives manning credit because he barks signals at the line and has good regular seasons. quit hatin' on brady because he is a winner with less talent.
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Alright cuh it's offical.
You a hater. -
Meet The Sniper wrote: »Manning had a decidedly bad year though. That offense in general struggled as the running game was terrible too.
I could contextualize Cassel's success but you wouldn't want that.
A few posts ago you were running around bragging about how Brady had nothing around him.
Go ? figure.
Woah dere.
Nobody said Brady's success is BECAUSE of the coaching system..
Didnt read the rest. Except at the end.
Bolded is exactly what the other guy said.
If you think Manning is better than Brady, I have no qualms with that. The two can be compared and I believe its going to come down to personal choice as to which is better. Nothing more nothing less. -
Meet The Sniper wrote: »Alright cuh it's offical.
You a hater.
quit hatin' on brady because he is a winner with less talent. -
major pain wrote: »Didnt read the rest. Except at the end. .
But of course.Bolded is exactly what the other guy said.
That ain't me cuh.If you think Manning is better than Brady, I have no qualms with that. The two can be compared and I believe its going to come down to personal choice as to which is better. Nothing more nothing less
I agree. Most people come into this discussion with a clear cut favorite no matter what and won't change their mind.
However, in the spirit of sports argument I feel like it's my job to make the opposing stance to look as stupid as possible. -
Jeezyfan4ever wrote: »judging by the facts, if you had to win one game that mattered( play-offs) who would you want to win the game- brady. 3 rings to 1.
what facts do you have? Cuz my facts say Peyton Manning has 44 late game 4th quarter winning drives to Tom Brady's 28 -
JUXcaptainHOOK wrote: »what facts do you have? Cuz my facts say Peyton Manning has 44 late game 4th quarter winning drives to Tom Brady's 28
Stats? Facts? Context?
In my Manning vs Brady?
Surely you jest!
All the proof we need! -
Meet The Sniper wrote: »But of course.
Looked like you were going somewhere with the discussion I wasnt.That ain't me cuh.
Yea i know, but you seemed to be defending his opinion.I agree. Most people come into this discussion with a clear cut favorite no matter what and won't change their mind.
However, in the spirit of sports argument I feel like it's my job to make the opposing stance to look as stupid as possible.
cool -
JUXcaptainHOOK wrote: »what facts do you have? Cuz my facts say Peyton Manning has 44 late game 4th quarter winning drives to Tom Brady's 28
so what happen against the saints oo wait you gonna blame reggie wayne, Manning is ? and doesnt make mistake right -
Jeezyfan4ever wrote: »so what happen against the saints oo wait you gonna blame reggie wayne, Manning is ? and doesnt make mistake right
If I'm not mistaken I coulda swore Reggie Wayne made public it was his fault that he ran the wrong route... not saying it isnt Peyton's fault but it WAS reggie's fault also -
JUXcaptainHOOK wrote: »If I'm not mistaken I coulda swore Reggie Wayne made public it was his fault that he ran the wrong route... not saying it isnt Peyton's fault but it WAS reggie's fault also
Of corse he taking the blame, Since when we hear manning taking the blame for things -
Jeezyfan4ever wrote: »Of corse he taking the blame, Since when we hear manning taking the blame for things
lol he's ALWAYS taking the blame.... I can tell you never watched his post game interviews ... U hating hard b for what reason idk.... did you know Peyton Manning personally? -
Meet The Sniper wrote: »We've seen games before Brady (Bledsoe) started and during Cassel's run. Both successful seasons regardless and puts less and less stock into the rings arguement. Had Bledsoe had never gotten hurt, Brady wouldn't have never started. Fact is we've never seen a Pats QB in the modern patriots system that HASN'T flourished. Bledsoe went on to another team and was ass, and Cassel went and was mediocre one year and awesome the next.http://fs64sports.blogspot.com/2010/09/2001-tom-brady-replaces-injured-drew.html
In for Bledsoe came the unknown backup quarterback, Tom Brady. Brady was an unheralded sixth-round draft pick by the Patriots in 2000, having had an undistinguished college career at Michigan where he had difficulty competing for playing time against the likes of Brian Griese and Drew Henson. As a rookie, there were questions about his size (while he had good height at 6’4”, he was initially listed at 210 pounds) and arm strength. But Brady worked hard on the practice field and in the weight room.
By the 2001 preseason, Brady had improved to the point that Coach Belichick was suitably impressed with his development - even if Bledsoe had not gone down to injury, he might have gotten an opportunity to play. Brady had also added about 25 pounds to his frame and no longer looked too spindly for the NFL
http://www.csnne.com/03/27/11/Revisting-Bledsoes-legacy/v1_landing.html?blockID=492055&feedID=3423
The truth is that if that injury never happens, things weren’t going to end well.
Not that his Patriot career had a storybook ending anyway, but this would have been worse.
Bledsoe stays healthy that year and more than likely flushes another season down the toilet. He continues to play in the shadow of a $100M extension that he couldn't live up to. At the time, Belichick was already unhappy. He didn’t like Bledsoe’s game and it wasn’t getting any better. His touchdown total had gone down in each of the four seasons since the Super Bowl; his decision-making was getting worse. He was as good as he was going to get, and it wasn’t good enough. If Bledsoe stays healthy, maybe there’s still a controversy; after all, Belichick wanted Brady running the show, but it would have been a mess. It wouldn’t have been any sweeter than what happened, only this time the season would have already been lost. Maybe Brady never catches that initial lightning in a bottle, maybe the Pats never catch that mystique.
So many different things could have happened from Drew Bledsoe escaping Mo Lewis, but relative to what actually did happen, all of them would be negative. And Bledsoe would’ve been the target. He could have dodged Lewis, but his brand would have continued to take a hit with every Pats loss, and who knows where it would've gone from there. Bledsoe finished his Patriots career with a record of 163-160. If he doesn’t get hurt, there’s a very good chance he goes below .500. And again, it wasn't getting any better.
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Meet The Sniper wrote: »Nobody said Brady's success is BECAUSE of the coaching system. But Cassel and Bledsoe just HAVE to make you consider the strength of the system as a INSTRUMENT in Brady's success, as much as you Brady supporters want to run away from that fact palms up screaming.
first off, most of bledsoe's career was under bill parcell, not bill billchick.
2nd most good teams build their franchises up to substance some type of lost...cassell having one good year doesnt prove anything because he was playing with a team that went 18-1 the year before, and in 08 had a very weak schedule...what were you expecting them to go 8-8?, they didnt make the playoffs w cassell that year, and moss' numbers were not the same playing with cassell as they were with brady...and if you wanna consider the system then
steve young comes in for j.montana and ends up having a hof career, j. montana goes to K.C. and just does ok...where's the outcry for montana only playing in a system..which he played with jerry rice MOST of his career???Meet The Sniper wrote: »The main idea of using the Rings as a method to put Brady over Manning has to imply that pretty much the sole reason they got those rings was because of Brady. Otherwise the 2000 Ravens neatly disprove that theory every time. But the coaching under Belicheck has given them winning seasons, even without Brady, and improved the team in EVERY aspect. Unless Brady is secretly BB and every man on that roster those years, you can't hold that over Manning. It doesn't prove Brady was better than Manning, it proves the Pats were better than the Colts.
After that all you have is the dreaded stats, which we all know Manning is clearly superior, even though the Patriots are notorious for running up the score in decided contests.
There, I just proved Manning > Brady with logic.
again 1. rings are a measuring stick that ALL ATHELETES ON judged on, not soley but it's apart of the arguement. athelete on top of athelete has said that, hence the story of the 94 bball dream team..when bird made barkley and ewing leave once him, magic and jordan started talking about rings....
2nd you need to go back again and realize for most of bledsoe's career he was under bill parcell, than pete carroll and I THINK maybe 2 seasons with bill billichick, and like the link i posted reads....the seasons under bill bilichick were ok but not good, also he was about to be replaced regradless of his injuires.
3rd the superbowl bledsoe was in was because the start up franchise jaguars upset the denver broncos, given the pats the chance to play against the start up jags. that's why they made it to the superbowl, which in bledsoe didnt do ish in that superbowl
4. its funny when these arguements come up...Manning is superior in the reg season, but is ok in the playoffs; that gets over looked every time...how are you so bomd in the reg season but when the teams get better and the defense gets better, your not so cerebral..and for all this talk about his defense...for a long period of time the colts were putting up 10, 11 wins seasons...and the defense played a part in that..how is it when they come up short in the playoffs NOW IT'S manning's defense wasnt good
well they were good enough to help manning to 10, 11 wins season
and that running up the score b.s. is laughable...they are grown ass men..the defense's job is to stop them from scoring, and the offense job is to score...this aint pop warner... -
major pain wrote: »KC won their division last year? They gotta win a SB in order for Cassell to be a decent QB to you?
lol you ? ? me, cassel didnt do much of ? the defense is the reason why they had a winning record and won their division -
vageneral08 wrote: »lol you ? ? me, cassel didnt do much of ? the defense is the reason why they had a winning record and won their division
oh word... 3000 yards 27 TD 7 INT 93 Rating but he aint do ? ... like i said he has to win a SB to be a decent QB? -
major pain wrote: »oh word... 3000 yards 27 TD 7 INT 93 Rating but he aint do ? ... like i said he has to win a SB to be a decent QB?
yeah he still wasnt top 10 when it came to the yards 3000 yards nowadays is easy to make even kyle orton threw more yards than him so what are you saying? -
re: Patriots going 11-5 with Cassel
11-5 looks good until you realize the team before was 16-0. If the 07 Pats had gone 11-5 and Cassell led them to 6-10, nobody would be making this ? argument, even though the record difference would be identical.
Dozens of teams have gone 11-5 in history, it aint nothin special. How many have gone 16-0? Thats a huge difference in terms of eliteness. -
sdotcarter111 wrote: »re: Patriots going 11-5 with Cassel
11-5 looks good until you realize the team before was 16-0. If the 07 Pats had gone 11-5 and Cassell led them to 6-10, nobody would be making this ? argument, even though the record difference would be identical.
Dozens of teams have gone 11-5 in history, it aint nothin special. How many have gone 16-0? Thats a huge difference in terms of eliteness.
you dont get it....we're not talking about a weak ass team we're talking about the patriots since brady been the starting qb the team has not had a losing record since and when he got hurt everybody thought they would be 5-11 team at best so you cant say it was common for them to win with an unknown qb with very little qb skill in college nobody knew they would be 11-5 with matt cassel -
vageneral08 wrote: »yeah he still wasnt top 10 when it came to the yards 3000 yards nowadays is easy to make even kyle orton threw more yards than him so what are you saying?
His rating and TD/Int count says he did pretty well. Did Kyle Orton have as many TDs? More INTs? Less rating? Obviously, one did better than the other on the whole, so what are YOU saying?
Dude apparently aint some scrub. He MIGHT actually be able to QB a team. -
major pain wrote: »His rating and TD/Int count says he did pretty well. Did Kyle Orton have as many TDs? More INTs? Less rating? Obviously, one did better than the other on the whole, so what are YOU saying?
Dude apparently aint some scrub. He MIGHT actually be able to QB a team.
lol dude is a scrub....how do you explain 16 td 16 int the season before? one season doesnt define a player's career....straight trash homie -
vageneral08 wrote: »lol dude is a scrub....how do you explain 16 td 16 int the season before? one season doesnt define a player's career....straight trash homie
So out of 3 seasons he has started he has 2 pretty good ones and one subpar one, yet he is a scrub? it really seems like if you arent a SB winner around here you arent up to par. -
major pain wrote: »So out of 3 seasons he has started he has 2 pretty good ones and one subpar one, yet he is a scrub? it really seems like if you arent a SB winner around here you arent up to par.
subpar? lol that ? is worse than subpar that's awful coming from an ok season before while playing with new england with 21 td and 11 ints -
vageneral08 wrote: »subpar? lol that ? is worse than subpar that's awful coming from an ok season before while playing with new england with 21 td and 11 ints
You seem to keep avoiding the whole scenario and focusing on one item. Fact is, Cassel has shown he can play. But, hey, I suppose a playing with a totally different team for the first year is supposed to yield better results? If not, he sucks huh? -
major pain wrote: »You seem to keep avoiding the whole scenario and focusing on one item. Fact is, Cassel has shown he can play. But, hey, I suppose a playing with a totally different team for the first year is supposed to yield better results? If not, he sucks huh?
he didnt show it with new england...I wonder why....maybe because of that system? once he went somewhere else where he had to learn something new he didnt produce all that well then next season he did alright with the help of charlie weis and now that weis is gone we'll see how "good" cassel is this season
